was John Idzik really that bad of a GM for the jets ? ? ?

[Super Bowles]

Was Jaded Green really that big of a pain in the ass?

[section314]

Can we get a conclusion on this topic so we can start a new thread on an equally fascinating question...Was Rich(4-28) Kotite really a bad coach for the N.Y Jets? 

[detectivekimble]

17 hours ago, Tinstar said:

Idzik and Mac have the same idea but it looks like Mac is better at it. 

No, they don't.  Mac's philosophy is much better.

 

[Rangers9]

1 hour ago, slats said:

They only "overachieved" because the talent on the roster was terrible. The Jets gave up nearly 100 more points than they scored that year. They managed to get to 8-8 thru a couple lucky bounces and a few players playing their asses off to save Rex's job. The only thing Idzik had to do with any surprise success that year was decimating the roster to set them up to overachieve. 

Look you can say the same thing about the 2009 Jets who backed into the playoffs. But wins are wins and there are no excuses for winning a game only for losing them. And Idzik wasn't about to turn around that 2013 team in one or two years. He had a decent draft that season and made two good trades. He's gone but not forgotten. We seem to have a good GM but I could see this fan base turning on him, too and soon if the results aren't there. I think Idzik's body of work shows he deserved a 3rd season that's all I'm saying. And that he shouldn't be taking the blame for one bad season. To me firing him that fast was a chickenspit move by an owner trying to deflect blame and ridicule from himself. A Cleveland Browns type of move. 

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Look you can say the same thing about the 2009 Jets who backed into the playoffs. But wins are wins and there are no excuses for winning a game only for losing them. And Idzik wasn't about to turn around that 2013 team in one or two years. He had a decent draft that season and made two good trades. He's gone but not forgotten. We seem to have a good GM but I could see this fan base turning on him, too and soon if the results aren't there. I think Idzik's body of work shows he deserved a 3rd season that's all I'm saying. And that he shouldn't be taking the blame for one bad season. To me firing him that fast was a chickenspit move by an owner trying to deflect blame and ridicule from himself. A Cleveland Brown type of move. 

The 2009 New York Jets won 5 of 6 games to make the playoffs.  how is that backing in?

 

always love when jet fans try to take credit away from successful seasons and apply excuses for non successful ones.

[Sperm Edwards]

7 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

The 2009 New York Jets won 5 of 6 games to make the playoffs.  how is that backing in?

 

always love when jet fans try to take credit away from successful seasons and apply excuses for non successful ones.

Come on, you know how. It's the sequence of events that was required. To control their destiny they needed to win against the Falcons, who'd lost 6 of their last 8, and we scored 7 points in one of Sanchez's vintage meltdowns. Then the next 2 weeks we played 2 good teams who allowed us to win: Indy, by resting their starters with a 1st half lead, and Cincinnati, who pretty much admitted they wanted us to win so they could get home field advantage the next week.

Those last 2 games weren't wins. They were purposeful gifts from our opponents. Plus even with that, I think it still required Denver losing all of their last 3 games, including losses to the 4-9 Raiders in week 15 and the 3-12 Chiefs in week 17.

I was damn happy to see it, but we did back in.  Had the schedule swapped the games to where we played Indy 2 weeks earlier and Denver played them 2 weeks later, it's highly doubtful we would have made it in. We hadn't beaten a team with a winning record in 3 months, way back in week 2.

[nyjets782]

1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

He gets 39 million guaranteed. Now that's a bad contract for a cornerback. And if you like with Vick only count on the field results. Revis wasn't that good on the field in 2016. And played way under the value of that contract. 

Again, you have no answer for any of this stuff.  You support the Vick signing but hate the Revis signing.  Revis is still playing at a high level.  Vick was hot garbage and you think this comparison is in YOUR favor?  Wow.  You (still) love the Jalen Saunders and Geno Smith selections.  You choose to disregard how contracts are structured.  You give credit for things like cutting Santonio Holmes.  (Still can't answer what GM in the NFL would have paid him $8.5M that year).   You still think Percy Harvin was a great move and the guy is not on an NFL roster a year later. 

Debating this further with you is a complete waste of time as these posts are coming off more and more troll-like with each passing hour.  The Idzik era, in spite of your relentless and feeble attempts to champion him, will go down as a miserable failure.  You can incredibly lament his dismissal.  I will just enjoy the fact that I can finally trust our FO as I root for my team. 

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Come on, you know how. It's the sequence of events that was required. To control their destiny they needed to win against the Falcons, who'd lost 6 of their last 8, and we scored 7 points in one of Sanchez's vintage meltdowns. Then the next 2 weeks we played 2 good teams who allowed us to win: Indy, by resting their starters with a 1st half lead, and Cincinnati, who pretty much admitted they wanted us to win so they could get home field advantage the next week.

Those last 2 games weren't wins. They were purposeful gifts from our opponents. Plus even with that, I think it still required Denver losing all of their last 3 games, including losses to the 4-9 Raiders in week 15 and the 3-12 Chiefs in week 17.

I was damn happy to see it, but we did back in.  Had the schedule swapped the games to where we played Indy 2 weeks earlier and Denver played them 2 weeks later, it's highly doubtful we would have made it in. We hadn't beaten a team with a winning record in 3 months, way back in week 2.

No one allowed us to win.  we were playing Indy tough until the removed starters to rest then we blew out Cincy before they removed starters.

 

In 1993 all we had to do was beat Oiler backups in week 18 to make the playoffs- we lost 24-0.

 

There's no such thing as backing in especially not when you win 5 of 6.  

[slats]

28 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Look you can say the same thing about the 2009 Jets who backed into the playoffs. But wins are wins and there are no excuses for winning a game only for losing them. And Idzik wasn't about to turn around that 2013 team in one or two years. He had a decent draft that season and made two good trades. He's gone but not forgotten. We seem to have a good GM but I could see this fan base turning on him, too and soon if the results aren't there. I think Idzik's body of work shows he deserved a 3rd season that's all I'm saying. And that he shouldn't be taking the blame for one bad season. To me firing him that fast was a chickenspit move by an owner trying to deflect blame and ridicule from himself. A Cleveland Brown type of move. 

Again, that team gave up nearly 100 more points than they scored. They were not improved. The record was a mirage, as seen the following season. 

And that was not a decent draft. He selected two busts with his first three picks, and the one quality player has already been suspended for weed. The Cleveland Brown type move was hiring such an incompetent in the first place. He couldn't close a draft day trade or a top free agent outside of Decker. He sounded like a babbling idiot when a microphone was placed in front of him. He deserves no credit for clearing cap space that every member of this board would've cut at the time especially, like Bleedin Green said, when he failed to keep the team competitive. His plan -to clear cap and build thru the draft- is everyone's plan. He deserves no extra credit for that, either. His execution of that plan was terrible. He amassed 12 draft picks in his second year and blew the majority of them. A high fourth rounder winding up on someone else's practice squad doesn't make it a good pick in retrospect. 

He deserves no credit for selecting Geno Smith or signing Michael Vick, as if they were some value. The rest of the league saw that they weren't worth what the Jets were willing to give up for them, and the rest of the league was right. As the GM, he was supposed to have the right information, and make the right decisions there. Instead, he made the Internet fan decisions. That's a strike against, not a point for. 

I want to be done with this thread, but your excuses and explanations for Idzik are exasperating. He was terrible at his job. If you give John Idzik a C, I can only assume you give Rich Kotite the same grade. God knows Kotite's drafts were a lot better. 

[Super Bowles]

John Idzik was DOOMED the moment T0M SHANE said hello.

[Integrity28]

Holy sh*t this thread.

[Super Bowles]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

Holy sh*t this thread.

Unholy Abomination!

[slats]

2 minutes ago, Super Bowles said:

Unholy Abomination!

In answer to your question, yes, Jaded Green was that annoying. 

[Saul Goodman]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

Can we get a conclusion on this topic so we can start a new thread on an equally fascinating question...Was Rich(4-28) Kotite really a bad coach for the N.Y Jets? 

This is actually a pretty good comparison. Idzik might've been worse as a GM than Kotite was as a head coach. Every single poster on this message board could have drafted better than Idzik did

[Super Bowles]

29 minutes ago, slats said:

In answer to your question, yes, Jaded Green was that annoying. 

Sorry yo.

[Bleedin Green]

55 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Come on, you know how. It's the sequence of events that was required. To control their destiny they needed to win against the Falcons, who'd lost 6 of their last 8, and we scored 7 points in one of Sanchez's vintage meltdowns. Then the next 2 weeks we played 2 good teams who allowed us to win: Indy, by resting their starters with a 1st half lead, and Cincinnati, who pretty much admitted they wanted us to win so they could get home field advantage the next week.

Those last 2 games weren't wins. They were purposeful gifts from our opponents. Plus even with that, I think it still required Denver losing all of their last 3 games, including losses to the 4-9 Raiders in week 15 and the 3-12 Chiefs in week 17.

I was damn happy to see it, but we did back in.  Had the schedule swapped the games to where we played Indy 2 weeks earlier and Denver played them 2 weeks later, it's highly doubtful we would have made it in. We hadn't beaten a team with a winning record in 3 months, way back in week 2.

While definitely true for the Indy game, as things had taken a turn for the worse of the Jets right before Manning's benching, and was further proven just a few week later, the argument about the CIN game was definitely devised after the fact to fit an agenda.  Don't get me wrong, that situation doesn't mean that there's any praise owed to the incompetency of that GM, HC, QB, etc., but CIN showed up for that game, and got the living crap kicked out of them in the first half before benching their starters in the second half, and then the Jets went there and beat them again a week later.  Not disputing some very good luck that 09 team needed to even have a shot in week 17, rather than already being eliminated, but that game itself wasn't one of the reasons.  I mean, come on... it's the Bengals in January, of course they lost.

[nyjunc]

6 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

While definitely true for the Indy game, as things had taken a turn for the worse of the Jets right before Manning's benching, and was further proven just a few week later, the argument about the CIN game was definitely devised after the fact to fit an agenda.  Don't get me wrong, that situation doesn't mean that there's any praise owed to the incompetency of that GM, HC, QB, etc., but CIN showed up for that game, and got the living crap kicked out of them in the first half before benching their starters in the second half, and then the Jets went there and beat them again a week later.  Not disputing some very good luck that 09 team needed to even have a shot in week 17, rather than already being eliminated, but that game itself wasn't one of the reasons.  I mean, come on... it's the Bengals in January, of course they lost.

sometimes you need some good luck.  If denver doesn't get NE to lose to us and Miami the last 2 weeks they aren't winning the SB last year having to travel to NE and we got Pitt to lose to an awful Baltimore team and then we choked.  Good teams take advantages of breaks.

[varjet]

My theory is that all of the bad or questionable moves that the Jets have made or make are generally the fault of either Terry Bradway and his team or Woody Johnson's meddling.

The fact that MacC is a scout by training, has a new scouting team which appears competent, and that Woody appears to have learned not to meddle (as much) dictates somewhat that decision making is going better.

Idzik had a good idea about how to build a football team.  it would not surprise me if he was told by Woody to keep the personnel department so Woody would have to pay severance.  But those guys knew they were not long for the world and did a horrible job evaluating talent.  My guess is that Rex had a view on Sheldon Richardson.   Milliner was an awful pick that high-on top of the injury history (you have to assume that players who get hurt in HS and College will get hurt as pros), he was a cover 2/zone Alabama corner who should not be picked that high.  His 4th round WR picks were disasters, as was the Percy Harvin signing, which was an enormous waste of cap space/money that could have been used to sign Wilkerson.   And not having a serviceable secondary basically tanked the Jets' season and cost the coach his job.    So yes, he needed to go.  

I think today Woody is involved with the Mo and Fitz negotiations/offers.  Hopefully he does not meddle in the draft.

[Rangers9]

I mean there's been all of this conversation (and almost 100%) saying that Idzik couldn't draft his way out of a paper bag. But of course his drafts are  3 seasons or less old and some fans jumped all over him the minute the card was handed over to the Commish. Or almost that soon after the selections were made. But let's just look at Mac's first draft in 2015 which he got all A's for. Leonard Williams was a surprise pick because it was expected that Wash was going to select him and when they didn't Mac smartly jumped all over him. And he ended up being a good player. But he wasn't an impact player which you kind of expect from an overall 6. He had 29 solo tackles and 3 sacks. This was not big time production but he is pretty good, not great so far. His second round pick was Devon Smith and I think most of us would agree he was a big disappointment. And got injured late in the season. On the positive side the coaching staff talked him up and they were't always positive about players. Before he got injured they were saying he was very close to being productive. Then in round 3 he took Mauldin. He was a good pick but most of the season not a big factor on D mostly STs. He came on later in the year and had 4 sacks, 13 solo tackles and no picks. He seems to be an improving player. Then Bryce Petty who is a mystery man. He didn't play a snap although he dressed for a couple of games as Fitz's backup when Geno was out. It's kind of hard to figure out where he stands with the Jets and if he's really going to be a part of their future. The last two picks, Jarvis Harrison (5th rounder) and Deion Simon (6rh round) were both cut and were on the PS in 2015. In other words any NFL team could have signed them (and didn't). So to me this was not a great draft. 

[slats]

[PatsFanTX]

The 2009 New York Jets won 5 of 6 games to make the playoffs.  how is that backing in?.

Colts and Bengals sat all their starters week 16 and 17.

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, PatsFanTX said:

Colts and Bengals sat all their starters week 16 and 17.

That would be incorrect.

[Savage69]

8 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Colts and Bengals sat all their starters week 16 and 17.

And both have lost to the Jets in the playoffs in their house..You know like when the Pats did at home..

[Jet Nut]

21 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Colts and Bengals sat all their starters week 16 and 17.

Bengals sat some starters after getting down big in the 2nd half. 

Then we smashed them again a week later in the first playoff game.  

[Rangers9]

Ok so in the 2015 draft we selected Devin Smith with our second round pick. I personally think he could be ok and not a bust. But if we're going to play this game and call a guy a bust after just one season then there were 3 Wrs drafted after him that had much better years:  Devin had only 9 receptions for 115 yards and 1 TD. Green-Beckham was 32-549-2. Funches had 31 catches for 473-5. And Tylor Lockett (only 5-10 and 182) had 51-664-6. Again it takes 3 years to give an accurate grade on a draft. The grade on Devin is Incomplete. Unless you're a front runner that is and want to give him an F. 

[bmd71]

Drafted Geno instead of Glennon,