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Ryan Clady a Jet [MERGED]

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6 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

The single most difficult thing to do in football!  There are so many factors at play in 1st getting the OPPORTUNITY to select a Franchise QB. There are usually 6 or 7 other teams wanting him who may or may not be ahead of you in the Draft and those who aren't may have more ammo to move up and select him before you. There are GM's like Ditka who will trade an entire Draft for 1 player.

Secondly, there is the actual QB being drafted. Can he make the transition to the Pros, stay healthy and make others around him better w/o Bankrupting the Cap in 5 yrs? You make it sound like putting a $1 in one of those mechanical claw vending machines and being able to grab the "Cool" gift from among the hundred "Non-Cool" gifts.  Mac gives us the best chance we've had in the past 20 yrs. to get "The Guy" and his Long Term job security will be linked to it.  To think it's an easy venture doesn't quite get the complexities involved in having the opportunity to select a franchise QB

   

Not easy but not impossible. Getting that QB is the most integral aspect of a GM's tenure. Ask Idziot. Taking Geno was his biggest mistake and indictive of being a horrible talent evaluator.  Passing on Bridgewater was unforgiveable, even if just to have competition at the position until you find your man.  There have been plenty of excellent to very good QB's taken later in the draft. Its all about being having a keen eye or trading a bit up if need be and taking a chance.  There are several QB's who werent taken in the first 10 picks of drafts.  Dalton 2nd rd, Flacco rd 1 pick 18, Big Ben rd 1 pick 11,  Brock Osweiler rd 2 pick 57, Bridgewater  rd 1 pick 32, Derrick Carr rd 2 pick 36, Cutler rd 1 pick 11,  Aaron Rodgers  rd 1 pick 24, Colin Kaepernick rd 2 pick 36, Wilson  rd 3.  Its all contingent on being a good evaluator of talent which is how GM's are graded.  Mac's success depends on finding a QB, whether it be a 'franchise QB' or a 'solid QB' to build around. He totally lucked out with Ftiz the Cat last year.  Typical Fitz play and the Jets would have been 6-10 if lucky.  This upcoming draft will speak volumes on how they really feel about Petty.  Mac has scouted QB's heavily this past year which is a good sign. Now find that man.       

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2 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

 

 

Right then so.

lol, yeah okay

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1 hour ago, Powpow said:

Not easy but not impossible. Getting that QB is the most integral aspect of a GM's tenure. Ask Idziot. Taking Geno was his biggest mistake and indictive of being a horrible talent evaluator.  Passing on Bridgewater was unforgiveable, even if just to have competition at the position until you find your man.  There have been plenty of excellent to very good QB's taken later in the draft. Its all about being having a keen eye or trading a bit up if need be and taking a chance.  There are several QB's who werent taken in the first 10 picks of drafts.  Dalton 2nd rd, Flacco rd 1 pick 18, Big Ben rd 1 pick 11,  Brock Osweiler rd 2 pick 57, Bridgewater  rd 1 pick 32, Derrick Carr rd 2 pick 36, Cutler rd 1 pick 11,  Aaron Rodgers  rd 1 pick 24, Colin Kaepernick rd 2 pick 36, Wilson  rd 3.  Its all contingent on being a good evaluator of talent which is how GM's are graded.  Mac's success depends on finding a QB, whether it be a 'franchise QB' or a 'solid QB' to build around. He totally lucked out with Ftiz the Cat last year.  Typical Fitz play and the Jets would have been 6-10 if lucky.  This upcoming draft will speak volumes on how they really feel about Petty.  Mac has scouted QB's heavily this past year which is a good sign. Now find that man.       

Not sold on Bridgewater. He's getting better but some definite holes in his game

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3 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

Think about it for a moment.  His thought process has to go something like this:

"I am going to spend a good portion of my life (and post more than just about anyone else) trying to make people who are really enthusiastic about something frustrated, angry and sad.  In fact, the frustration, anger and sadness that I occasionally bring to others with my snide comments makes me happier than it would to talk with other people who share in common with me an affection for the team that I supposedly like."  

It's a helluva way to approach life.  He can keep it.

I think the Jets accomplish making us feel that way just fine on their own without the assistance of the expired lox of the Internet.

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1 hour ago, Copernicus said:

He has to stay healthy or the deal is a bad one

Despite the negatine reps, just wanted to welcome you to the board. We're all a little sensitive right now! :Ban:

I assume when you say the deal might end up being a bad one, you are also including the Brick retirement + if Clady gets reinjured.

MacCagnan made what I believe to be a very astute move on landing an All Pro LT within a day of Bricks announcement and at a $4m discount.

I also like the fact Clady will be playing for his next big contract, being only 29.

I also like the fact Mac included an option yr. Jets can pick up if Clady once again becomes a premier LT in this league.

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IMO, if this Clady cat never plays a down for us it was still a good deal . We needed a LT who could potentially be an upgrade on Ferguson and we went out and got 1 at 1 third the cost ..

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1 minute ago, Tinstar said:

IMO, if this Clady cat never plays a down for us it was still a good deal . We needed a LT who could potentially be an upgrade on Ferguson and we went out and got 1 at 1 third the cost ..

How can it be a good deal if he never plays a down for us. 

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Quote

 

This move takes away any chance of us forcing a move at OT with our 1st pick in this draft. Because of this move, we are back to picking BPA base on our board . We already won in my book. 

I remember Tanny and Bradway panicking when Evans got suspended at spending 2 1st round picks to draft Dwayne Robertson  even after telling us how no player in the draft was worth trading up for.  It happens, and now we won't fall into that trap again.

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1 hour ago, Copernicus said:

He has to stay healthy or the deal is a bad one

Hey my friend good to see you  :)

 

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2 hours ago, Copernicus said:

He has to stay healthy or the deal is a bad one

You can say that about any trade or free agent signing. 

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On April 10, 2016 at 8:20 PM, 32EBoozer said:

Would FA Beatty been a comparable signing for even less money than Clady? Saves us the 5th?

beatty was a cut, was;t he?  this guy is a player.  ACLs happen.

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On 4/9/2016 at 4:16 PM, sirlancemehlot said:

Yay mac!  Woohoo mac!  You guys are blind to the fact that Mac absolutely sucks. He created a hole then filled it with an expensive injury prone player and gave away another draft pick. Only in Jets land is that an awesome job. Folks need to take a step back and get off this guys dick. He's turning into a disaster.  

While what you are stating might ultimately turn out to be true, it is way, way, WAY too early to be spouting out this negativity.  I really don't want a Tanny Jr. as our GM, but I've definitely got to give this guy the benefit of the doubt before I crucify him on the cap situation.  It's only April . . . let's see what happens.

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10 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

My assumption is that the other 3m that's nonguaranteed is in the form of per game incentives.

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I figured the non-guaranteed $3M is just non-guaranteed salary (i.e. he gets it if he's on the opening day roster). The playing time incentives are an amount over that $6M (think they said it was $1.5M).

Look at it this way (I can't remember for sure now, but I think this is what was reported):

  • $3M guaranteed (even if we cut him between now and final roster cutdowns), but nothing actually paid out yet.
  • $3M more upon making the opening day roster (game checks become 1/16 of $6M)
  • $1.5M more in NLTBE playing time incentives (bonus paid later, presumably in one lump sum, which hits the 2017 cap if earned)

The incentives count this year or next year based on whether he'd have hit it in the prior season. That's how they get broken up as LTBE (likely to be earned, which hit the current year's cap) or NLTBE (not likely to be earned, which hit next year's if earned).

So if we re-signed Fitz and he has an incentive for 30 TDs, it would be considered LTBE because he did it just last year so it's assumed he'll do it again. If he doesn't throw those 30 TDs again, then we get a cap credit next year because the team took a cap hit for money that was never paid out. 

Clady missed the whole 2015 season, so any playing time incentive - even as low as 1 game - would automatically be NLTBE, and would therefore hit the 2017 cap if earned. 

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8 hours ago, Matt39 said:

With hindsight and considering the roster I would have probably swung for the edge rusher with Beasley. Williams will probably be a good player, just not a guy that will change a defense though.

I was asking because regardless of the mistakes made from previous regimes most "experts" had him labeled as the best player in the draft ... I was ecstatic to see our FO take him as BPA & not made a move like Washington did. Hopefully he continues to improve , along with Mauldin ... & we have them at a nice price for the next 5/4 years respectively.

agree, as most of us do, biggest factor will be how they judge QB ... & what moves are they able to make to acquire the right prospect.

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9 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

I wish we would have selected Todd Gurley.......

Will agree to disagree with you on that .

does that mean you also favor Zeke at RB in the 1st this year? Or did you just believe Gurley was special before the draft last year?

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4 minutes ago, ljr said:

Will agree to disagree with you on that .

does that mean you also favor Zeke at RB in the 1st this year? Or did you just believe Gurley was special before the draft last year?

Gurley was something special liked him coming out of college. 

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2 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

If Clady never plays a down and then clubs baby seals while wearing a Nickelback shirt, it was still a good deal. 

I would have to draw the line at the Nickelback shirt..... 

 

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10 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I just think we've been needing an entire culture change for so long. Idzik was kind of getting there but the guy was such a disaster with the draft that it canceled it all out. And now here we are, back to trading cheap picks for highly paid vets on short deals. All because they never have anyone developing at any of these positions ready to step in and fill the void. This isn't how good teams build sustainability and the Jets have done this through several administrations now. It's boring and depressing. Either be good or be bad, instead the Jets are just completely content with fielding a very mediocre football franchise on average. This is simply more of the same futility. It's not just a matter of the 5th rounder, it's also the time, space, and resources. These types of moves simply are not worth it with the team we have right now.

I can sympathize, but the Idzik route - tank and sign no one expensive until we have a QB - is tough for a GM to survive through. Especially with our tabloids. It's just an easy things for fans to root for if they don't go to every game. 

Sometimes I root for that, in some ways, but I'm ok with it if it's part of a long term plan. For example, re-signing Fitz. On its face, I hate the idea because he is a dead end starter who will never QB us or anyone else to a championship. Never. However if we draft a QB who isn't ready to hit the field right away we have to not only put someone else out there, but also provide some leadership and example-setting for the new kid. That isn't going to happen with Geno and Petty as the team's "veterans" he's supposed to learn from, who is decent enough that fans won't be pressuring them to start an unready rookie before freaking October.

Similar "part of a plan" with Clady. Forget the pick because it's nothing to recoup it (and I think they should), so now we're just down to the cost. The team was scheduled to pay Brick $10.4M and Breno $5M. If they replace both with Clady at $7.5M max w/incentives, and a rookie ($0, kind of) they are saving $8M not spending $7.5M. The rookie is "kind of" $0 because they were paying a rookie that whether it's an OT rookie or not.

Looking at QB and OLB and OT is hard enough. What Clady does is prevent hat from being the same plus another OT. What do you imagine the odds were of finding two starting OTs in is year's draft?

Looking at the situation on March 1, the only realistic route to replacing them both right away was one veteran starter and one rookie. That Clady is on a short deal means we can draft another OT next year to give us a young pair of them without reaching for more this year than he draft has available in it. Plus if/when we do throw a rookie QB onto the field this season, you want better blocking for him than a pair of rookies as his bookends. 

I don't see this as the same as re-signing Cro and Harris and Revis last year. 

 

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24 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I figured the non-guaranteed $3M is just non-guaranteed salary (i.e. he gets it if he's on the opening day roster). The playing time incentives are an amount over that $6M (think they said it was $1.5M).

Look at it this way (I can't remember for sure now, but I think this is what was reported):

  • $3M guaranteed (even if we cut him between now and final roster cutdowns), but nothing actually paid out yet.
  • $3M more upon making the opening day roster (game checks become 1/16 of $6M)
  • $1.5M more in NLTBE playing time incentives (bonus paid later, presumably in one lump sum, which hits the 2017 cap if earned)

The incentives count this year or next year based on whether he'd have hit it in the prior season. That's how they get broken up as LTBE (likely to be earned, which hit the current year's cap) or NLTBE (not likely to be earned, which hit next year's if earned).

So if we re-signed Fitz and he has an incentive for 30 TDs, it would be considered LTBE because he did it just last year so it's assumed he'll do it again. If he doesn't throw those 30 TDs again, then we get a cap credit next year because the team took a cap hit for money that was never paid out. 

Clady missed the whole 2015 season, so any playing time incentive - even as low as 1 game - would automatically be NLTBE, and would therefore hit the 2017 cap if earned. 

Exactly.  And given our cap crunch this year, I'm assuming Mac is using the NLTBE rule to his advantage, hopefully by putting that "nonguaranteed salary" into the form of an incentive he's likely to hit but counts as NLTBE (pushing 3M in dead money into 2017 if we cut him would be no big loss). 

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22 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

Exactly.  And given our cap crunch this year, I'm assuming Mac is using the NLTBE rule to his advantage, hopefully by putting that "nonguaranteed salary" into the form of an incentive he's likely to hit but counts as NLTBE (pushing 3M in dead money into 2017 if we cut him would be no big loss). 

The non-guaranteed $3M has nothing to do with LTBE/NLTBE because it's salary, not a bonus.

The only NLTBE part is the ($1.5M?) bonus for playing time incentives earned.

So if he's released before final cutdowns, its just $3M that hits in 2016 (because it's money we guaranteed we'd pay him) and nothing more. Nothing else this year or next year because it was not paid and never will be paid.

Easy rule of thumb to always keep in mind is this: the only $ that ends up as net charges to the Jets' salary cap, when all the dust has settled, is $ that the Jets pays to its players. Bonuses and incentives may tweak that number higher or lower in any given season, for one reason or another, but in the end that rule of thumb always applies. 

The only time there's a cap hit for money never paid to a player is a temporary LTBE bonus that doesn't get earned. But that amount is credited back as a higher spending ceiling the next season, so the net charge for that unpaid $ is still $0.

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16 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Idzik's drafts honestly look fine if you replace Pryor with Bridgewater.

PlushFlimsyArkshell.gif

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The non-guaranteed $3M has nothing to do with LTBE/NLTBE because it's salary, not a bonus.

The only NLTBE part is the ($1.5M?) bonus for playing time incentives earned.

So if he's released before final cutdowns, its just $3M that hits in 2016 (because it's money we guaranteed we'd pay him) and nothing more. Nothing else this year or next year because it was not paid and never will be paid.

Easy rule of thumb to always keep in mind is this: the only $ that ends up as net charges to the Jets' salary cap, when all the dust has settled, is $ that the Jets pays to its players. Bonuses and incentives may tweak that number higher or lower in any given season, for one reason or another, but in the end that rule of thumb always applies. 

The only time there's a cap hit for money never paid to a player is a temporary LTBE bonus that doesn't get earned. But that amount is credited back as a higher spending ceiling the next season, so the net charge for that unpaid $ is still $0.

If it is paragraph 5 salary, sure. (FYI, you can take as a given that i know my way around the cap and CBA). But the reports I've seen haven't been that specific, and just say "6M in 2016, 3 guaranteed". Have you seen anything more specific?

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9 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

Exactly.  And given our cap crunch this year, I'm assuming Mac is using the NLTBE rule to his advantage, hopefully by putting that "nonguaranteed salary" into the form of an incentive he's likely to hit but counts as NLTBE (pushing 3M in dead money into 2017 if we cut him would be no big loss). 

 

8 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The non-guaranteed $3M has nothing to do with LTBE/NLTBE because it's salary, not a bonus.

The only NLTBE part is the ($1.5M?) bonus for playing time incentives earned.

So if he's released before final cutdowns, its just $3M that hits in 2016 (because it's money we guaranteed we'd pay him) and nothing more. Nothing else this year or next year because it was not paid and never will be paid.

Easy rule of thumb to always keep in mind is this: the only $ that ends up as net charges to the Jets' salary cap, when all the dust has settled, is $ that the Jets pays to its players. Bonuses and incentives may tweak that number higher or lower in any given season, for one reason or another, but in the end that rule of thumb always applies. 

The only time there's a cap hit for money never paid to a player is a temporary LTBE bonus that doesn't get earned. But that amount is credited back as a higher spending ceiling the next season, so the net charge for that unpaid $ is still $0.

 

31 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

If it is paragraph 5 salary, sure. (FYI, you can take as a given that i know my way around the cap and CBA). But the reports I've seen haven't been that specific, and just say "6M in 2016, 3 guaranteed". Have you seen anything more specific?

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

 

wtfisthisnerdshit.jpg

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I understand what MLH and Dbatesman are saying and I agree. Although, I believe these types of trades will not continue to happen once we finally have players on rookie contracts worth resigning. For right now, it doesn't exactly hurt us, because it's a stopgap solution. I wouldn't be shocked if we still take a guy like Decker if he's there. Clady may only be here for a year, which is fine. I also would have been OK with us going into the draft without a solution at LT. "what's the point?" is a valid question. May be an important stopgap solution if we have to field our rookie QB this season. We'll see. Too soon to judge a trade. 

IMO, I think we'll try again to trade back.

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1 hour ago, Doggin94it said:

If it is paragraph 5 salary, sure. (FYI, you can take as a given that i know my way around the cap and CBA). But the reports I've seen haven't been that specific, and just say "6M in 2016, 3 guaranteed". Have you seen anything more specific?

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Ian Rappaport (nfl.com)

"Clady's first year goes to $7.5M with incentives (Okung had $5M). Clady has 2-year max value of $20.5M. Was to make $19.5M with no guarantee"

Summary from nj.com, pretty much what I was saying:

"Translation: Clady essentially has a one-year deal with a team option for 2017. He will earn $6 million in base pay in 2016, with $3 million of that guaranteed, plus incentives that can bring his total 2016 earnings to $7.5 million. Then, in 2017, Clady can make $10 million in base pay, and up to $13 million total, including incentives."

 

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15 minutes ago, BroadwayJets said:

I understand what MLH and Dbatesman are saying and I agree. Although, I believe these types of trades will not continue to happen once we finally have players on rookie contracts worth resigning.

We're going to build through the draft, except for when we don't, but someday we totally will.

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Jets got Clady for this year- if he does not pan out we walk away- good job Mac

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4 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

We're going to build through the draft, except for when we don't, but someday we totally will.

Filling as many needs as possible prior to the draft is an important step in building through the draft.

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1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

We're going to build through the draft, except for when we don't, but someday we totally will.

Hitting on draft picks is important in this equation. But yes, agreed. I just think it will stop once we actually get results from the draft. I would also say it's premature to assume we have Tanny 2.0

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Ian Rappaport (nfl.com)

"Clady's first year goes to $7.5M with incentives (Okung had $5M). Clady has 2-year max value of $20.5M. Was to make $19.5M with no guarantee"

Summary from nj.com, pretty much what I was saying:

"Translation: Clady essentially has a one-year deal with a team option for 2017. He will earn $6 million in base pay in 2016, with $3 million of that guaranteed, plus incentives that can bring his total 2016 earnings to $7.5 million. Then, in 2017, Clady can make $10 million in base pay, and up to $13 million total, including incentives."

 

Thanks

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10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Filling as many needs as possible prior to the draft is an important step in building through the draft.

-Mike Tannnebaum

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38 minutes ago, BroadwayJets said:

I understand what MLH and Dbatesman are saying and I agree. Although, I believe these types of trades will not continue to happen once we finally have players on rookie contracts worth resigning. For right now, it doesn't exactly hurt us, because it's a stopgap solution. I wouldn't be shocked if we still take a guy like Decker if he's there. Clady may only be here for a year, which is fine. I also would have been OK with us going into the draft without a solution at LT. "what's the point?" is a valid question. May be an important stopgap solution if we have to field our rookie QB this season. We'll see. Too soon to judge a trade. 

IMO, I think we'll try again to trade back.

Wouldn't Mo qualify as someone worth resigning? 

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We're going to build through the draft, except for when we don't, but someday we totally will.

You take this way too far. The lost opportunity cost of trading down from late 5th to 235, both long and short term, doesn't outweigh the benefit of adding a potentially premium LT, even if only short term, especially given the not insignificant possibility that Petty or a rookie QB will get meaningful playing time this season.

Mortgaging the future for a short term upgrade in a year where you are highly unlikely to win the super bowl is GM malpractice. Trading down from the fifth to the seventh doesn't do that, and other than generic bloviating about the need to build through the draft, I still haven't seen a real world argument from you about the actual, practical impact of trading down 2 rounds late in the draft

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