Why are/were the Jets in cap hell this year?

[pfilippone]

Can someone explain how the Jets went from tons of cap-room last year to being in cap hell this year?

- Was the GM's plan last year to win it all in his 1st year with Geno/Fitz and to hell with next year?
- Did league rules require we spend every penny? 

Many of us praise Maccagnan for what he's done so far. But why is the poor cap room situation not on him?
Granted, with Brick retiring, this topic may already be moot. But please humor me.

[ZachEY]

Revis

[BurnleyJet]

The Jets had to spend so much last year because of the CBA rules. We under spent so much previously, we had to throw money about just to fall within the 3 year rule.

[Shockwave]

5 minutes ago, pfilippone said:

Can someone explain how the Jets went from tons of cap-room last year to being in cap hell this year?

- Was the GM's plan last year to win it all in his 1st year with Geno/Fitz and to hell with next year?
- Did league rules require we spend every penny? 

Many of us praise Maccagnan for what he's done so far. But why is the poor cap room situation not on him?
Granted, with Brick retiring, this topic may already be moot. But please humor me.

The Cap is absolutely not an issue right now at all. Well have a ton of money free next year and literally lead the league in cap room the year after. 

[jetsons]

8 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Revis

Would love to be able to restructure his deal, but I don't think Revis would go for it.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Jets had to purchase an entire secondary in FA last year due to a complete lack of talent due to criminal mismanagement of the roster

Mac also added a few playmakers to field the first competent offense we have seen in years

money well spent

[Tinstar]

The Jets are not in cap hell

[jett]

We're fine he front loaded a lot of those contracts so he can release them early on, like Cromartie. We are fine. 

[Sperm Edwards]

He spent more than he should have, and no matter how many times people try to claim otherwise we did NOT have to do it. We could have spent the exact same cash last year that would have resulted in far more space this year. 

Long term we'll be fine, but a lot of unnecessary $ was pissed away on too-expensive short term fixes for a team still in need of a QB. I would care less if they were all for young players with a long future here, but a lot was wasted on dead end guys past their primes without a good enough reason. 

Hopefully he learns from it. 

[maury77]

The way that last year's contracts were structured, we were going to be tight on money this year, but I believe we are projected to be about 30 million under the cap going into 2017. 2016 was going to be the tight year. 

[Mike135]

For a team in cap hell... not doing too bad though.  We've added potential pro bowl RB and LT.

[Tinstar]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He spent more than he should have, and no matter how many times people try to claim otherwise we did NOT have to do it. We could have spent the exact same cash last year that would have resulted in far more space this year. 

Long term we'll be fine, but a lot of unnecessary $ was pissed away on too-expensive short term fixes for a team in need of a QB. I would care less if they were all for young players with a long future here, but a lot was wasted on dead end guys past their primes without a good enough reason. 

Hopefully he learns from it. 

That's 1 way to look at it. Another way would be to see a 1st time GM and HC going all in that 1st year to give the owner and fan base something to hang their hats on while installing a plan to improve the talent level, speed and age on an aging roster.

Job 1 I would say was a smashing success.

 Job 2 is under way and to be working. We have a plan that is feasible and a man in charge who appears comfortable in front of the media and orchestrating the scouting department

For the 1st time in a long time, I see hope for the Jets . If this front office somehow manages to get us Carson Wentz, oh boy . 

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Tinstar said:

That's 1 way to look at it. Another way would be to see a 1st time GM and HC going all in that 1st year to give the owner and fan base something to hang their hats on while installing a plan to improve the talent level, speed and age on an aging roster.

Job 1 I would say was a smashing success.

 Job 2 is under way and to be working. We have a plan that is feasible and a man in charge who appears comfortable in front of the media and orchestrating the scouting department

For the 1st time in a long time, I see hope for the Jets . If this front office somehow manages to get us Carson Wentz, oh boy . 

Agree all around.

Wouldn't hold my breath on Wentz, though.

I think most likely is Fitz returning this year. After that it just depends on how they value the QBs after the top 2. Could be Lynch in round 1, but if they don't love him then they can take an OLB or another T if someone is can't-pass value, and take one of the other QBs in rounds 2-4 depending on how they have them rated. 

Anyway what I do like about Maccagnan is he seems hell-bent on seeing to it that we do not have a gaping hole that forces our hands into reaching in the draft. This is why I'll be surprised if Fitz isn't signed prior to the draft (unless Mo can somehow be moved for a top 4 pick before that).

[CaliforniaJet]

Cap Heaven!

[pointman]

Only time money hurt us is with Snacks. This was a soft free agency year. No one was getting Von from Denver. I'm OK with where we sit. 

[Sperm Edwards]

On 4/10/2016 at 10:16 PM, pointman said:

Only time money hurt us is with Snacks. This was a soft free agency year. No one was getting Von from Denver. I'm OK with where we sit. 

Having nothing to do with whoever else we may have inked - $9M was too much for Snacks for us - I'd still rather we had an extra $10M+ that we didn't need to spend in '15. 

• Cro was just dumb, as has been said many times, and I hated the signing from day 1. Plus keeping him out there despite his bad play (going back to camp) surely didn't send the best message to the younger guys on the team. That's $7M wasted.
• Also Harris was too much, and is a poor fit for a HC who preaches speed speed speed on defense. Paying him that much means he's on the field all the time instead of a replacement, which then means we must play 3-across as our base defense (with Coples, and then Sheldon, at freaking OLB) since Harris can't cover nearly enough ground to be an every-down 4-3 MLB.  
• Plus I get the excitement over Revis, but $17M means he should need no help whatsoever and get pwned by nobody. Otherwise a merely "really good but not incredible" #1 corner is at least $5M less than that.

I don't know. I just think last year, with such low expectations from the start, it would have been a great opportunity to give Williams & McDougle (and at least PT play on D instead of just ST action from Milliner) more regular live action. Now we're first giving those same guys a shot a year later, just in time for their contracts to then expire.

I just hate the idea of blasting through that kind of older, short-term veteran spending on a team that fully expected to start Geno Smith all year at QB. Spending is fine for that team, but limit those new expensive signings to guys you realistically expect to still be starting for us 4 years later.

[Beerfish]

Went a bit over board in the secondary imo.  Skrine and gilchrist both added up to dollars.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Went a bit over board in the secondary imo.  Skrine and gilchrist both added up to dollars.

Gilchrist was a bargain. He cost money, but it's money we'd gladly spend on him right now if he wasn't here and we had that cap room available.

Wasted cap money is $ spent that we wouldn't do again knowing what we know now.

[pointman]

14 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Having nothing to do with whoever else we may have inked - $9M was too much for Snacks for us - I'd still rather we had an extra $10M that we didn't need to spend in '15. 

• Cro was just dumb, as has been said many times, and I hated the signing from day 1. Plus keeping him out there despite his bad play (going back to camp) surely didn't send the best message to the younger guys on the team. That's $7M wasted.
• Also Harris was too much, and is a poor fit for a HC who preaches speed speed speed on defense. Paying him that much means he's on the field all the time instead of a replacement, which then means we must play 3-across as our base defense (with Coples, and then Sheldon, at freaking OLB) since Harris can't cover nearly enough ground to be an every-down 4-3 MLB.  
• Plus I get the excitement over Revis, but $17M means he should need no help whatsoever and get pwned by nobody. Otherwise a merely "really good but not incredible" #1 corner is at least $5M less than that.

I don't know. I just think last year, with such low expectations from the start, it would have been a great opportunity to give Williams & McDougle (and at least PT play on D instead of just ST action from Milliner) more regular live action. Now we're first giving those same guys a shot a year later, just in time for their contracts to then expire.

I just hate the idea of blasting through that kind of older, short-term veteran spending on a team that fully expected to start Geno Smith all year at QB. Spending is fine for that team, but limit those new expensive signings to guys you realistically expect to still be starting for us 4 years later.

I was in love with Cro being back. He had really big upside. Harris is a sure tackler and a leader. Who was our alternative? Patrick Willis wasn't coming out of retirement. Revis is my hero, please don't knock him. 

I think the snaps a lot of these guys get in college, in practice, and limited playing time on specials etc to see live action. I didn't need to see McDougle fall on his face in game to know he isn't going to be much of an impact player. 

I think its just tougher to find players that you're talking. Young guys who can come in and start for us over the course of four years. Thats a long time. I'm not too upset with the idea of year to year players, proven players who may be on the slight decline, but have the capability of helping this team succeed. I'm with you on most things, but I'm not really opposed to how things have gone either. I've wanted Harris gone for years now. Cro is just too unpredictable, I just like him. Youth and long term longevity is great, its just too damn hard to find. I'll take what we have been getting. I just don't want Fitz back... that came out of nowhere, I know. Just wanted to add it.

[Sperm Edwards]

21 minutes ago, pointman said:

I was in love with Cro being back. He had really big upside. Harris is a sure tackler and a leader. Who was our alternative? Patrick Willis wasn't coming out of retirement. Revis is my hero, please don't knock him. 

I think the snaps a lot of these guys get in college, in practice, and limited playing time on specials etc to see live action. I didn't need to see McDougle fall on his face in game to know he isn't going to be much of an impact player. 

I think its just tougher to find players that you're talking. Young guys who can come in and start for us over the course of four years. Thats a long time. I'm not too upset with the idea of year to year players, proven players who may be on the slight decline, but have the capability of helping this team succeed. I'm with you on most things, but I'm not really opposed to how things have gone either. I've wanted Harris gone for years now. Cro is just too unpredictable, I just like him. Youth and long term longevity is great, its just too damn hard to find. I'll take what we have been getting. I just don't want Fitz back... that came out of nowhere, I know. Just wanted to add it.

That's the point. Cro IMO did not have really big upside. That you (or Bowles) "just like him" is not a good enough reason to pay through the nose on a per-year basis like we did. He had really big upside when we got him from the Chargers, not when we re-signed him from a year in Arizona. It was way too much for him, and his crappola play in 2015 and subsequent release this winter showed it. And tougher shmuffer. We had 3 talented young CBs on the roster and a HC whose specialty is the defensive backfield. Seriously, 1st rounder Pryor plus $$$ FAs Revis, Skrine, and Gilchrist in the secondary, along with the best of the other 3, really ought to have been enough for Bowles to work with.

There are always alternatives, including in the draft. Every team without Harris was not lost at the position. ILB has got to be one of the easiest starting positions to fill. The amount he got - and the amount he was guaranteed, 4th-most in the NFL - was shocking, not expected, after his forgettable 2014 season (where his tackling wasn't so sure). He wasn't and isn't the 7th best ILB in the NFL and, on an annual basis for those guaranteed seasons, though he's getting paid like it. Now the money paid to him won't go to someone younger, better, a better fit for the speed Bowles wants, and less $ per year, like Trevathan. Or another player via trade, who may not have seemed available as a non-FA (like Clady and Marshall for us, or others around the league).

[pointman]

11 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

That's the point. Cro IMO did not have really big upside. That you (or Bowles) "just like him" is not a good enough reason to pay through the nose on a per-year basis like we did. He had really big upside when we got him from the Chargers, not when we re-signed him from a year in Arizona. It was way too much for him, and his crappola play in 2015 and subsequent release this winter showed it. And tougher shmuffer. We had 3 talented young CBs on the roster and a HC whose specialty is the defensive backfield. Seriously, 1st rounder Pryor plus $$$ FAs Revis, Skrine, and Gilchrist in the secondary, along with the best of the other 3, really ought to have been enough for Bowles to work with.

There are always alternatives, including in the draft. Every team without Harris was not lost at the position. ILB has got to be one of the easiest starting positions to fill. The amount he got - and the amount he was guaranteed, 4th-most in the NFL - was shocking, not expected, after his forgettable 2014 season (where his tackling wasn't so sure). He wasn't and isn't the 7th best ILB in the NFL and, on an annual basis for those guaranteed seasons, though he's getting paid like it. Now the money paid to him won't go to someone younger, better, a better fit for the speed Bowles wants, and less $ per year, like Trevathan. Or another player via trade, who may not have seemed available as a non-FA (like Clady and Marshall for us, or others around the league).

Maybe they knew what they had in Dee, Dex, and Williams. Dee didn't play, Dex didn't show one play of anything in the time he did get, and Williams... sure did show things, but he also showed he can't tackle. When those three didn't get that many reps, I trusted in Bowles he knew what he was doing. Before the start of the season a good Cro > Williams. Williams was an unknown variable.

 

Other teams didn't have Harris, but they had other backers on their roster. What did we have to go out and field? Easy to fill, like who? Who would have replaced Harris for the tangibles, not even mentioning the intangibles? Serious question. I'm curious, and thats all I am. I am not a Harris sympathizer. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, pointman said:

Maybe they knew what they had in Dee, Dex, and Williams. Dee didn't play, Dex didn't show one play of anything in the time he did get, and Williams... sure did show things, but he also showed he can't tackle. When those three didn't get that many reps, I trusted in Bowles he knew what he was doing. Before the start of the season a good Cro > Williams. Williams was an unknown variable.

 

Other teams didn't have Harris, but they had other backers on their roster. What did we have to go out and field? Easy to fill, like who? Who would have replaced Harris for the tangibles, not even mentioning the intangibles? Serious question. I'm curious, and thats all I am. I am not a Harris sympathizer. 

Doubtful. It was a 100% new staff. And if they knew they were bad, as the justification for paying Cro $7M, then explain them going with those 3 this year without replacing Cro.

[pointman]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Doubtful. It was a 100% new staff. And if they knew they were bad, as the justification for paying Cro $7M, then explain them going with those 3 this year without replacing Cro.

They now have a sense of what Williams is. Beforehand they didn't know anything about the guy. Not many did, outside of his own mother. I bet even she was surprised at the output he had. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, pointman said:

They now have a sense of what Williams is. Beforehand they didn't know anything about the guy. Not many did, outside of his own mother. I bet even she was surprised at the output he had. 

You just said they knew what they had and that's why they signed Cro. Now you're saying they didn't know anything about them before and that's why they signed Cro.

Or is it me? I'm sleepy.

[pointman]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

You just said they knew what they had and that's why they signed Cro. Now you're saying they didn't know anything about them before and that's why they signed Cro.

Or is it me? I'm sleepy.

Go back and re-read my post. I said Williams was an unknown variable before the start of the season. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, pointman said:

Go back and re-read my post. I said Williams was an unknown variable before the start of the season. 

Who's on first?

[pointman]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Who's on first?

Yes.

[pointman]

9 minutes ago, pointman said:

Before the start of the season a good Cro > Williams. Williams was an unknown variable.

 

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You just said they knew what they had and that's why they signed Cro. Now you're saying they didn't know anything about them before and that's why they signed Cro.

 

Cool? Cool.

[Sperm Edwards]

11 minutes ago, pointman said:

Maybe they knew what they had in Dee, Dex, and Williams.

?

[jett]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Having nothing to do with whoever else we may have inked - $9M was too much for Snacks for us - I'd still rather we had an extra $10M that we didn't need to spend in '15. 

• Cro was just dumb, as has been said many times, and I hated the signing from day 1. Plus keeping him out there despite his bad play (going back to camp) surely didn't send the best message to the younger guys on the team. That's $7M wasted.
• Also Harris was too much, and is a poor fit for a HC who preaches speed speed speed on defense. Paying him that much means he's on the field all the time instead of a replacement, which then means we must play 3-across as our base defense (with Coples, and then Sheldon, at freaking OLB) since Harris can't cover nearly enough ground to be an every-down 4-3 MLB.  
• Plus I get the excitement over Revis, but $17M means he should need no help whatsoever and get pwned by nobody. Otherwise a merely "really good but not incredible" #1 corner is at least $5M less than that. 

I'll say this, the first few weeks were rough for Cro, and I mean really rough..  but man did he settle down after that and ended up playing better than Revis. However he is far too inconsistent we have seen the great and the horrible from him, and we saw a little of both last year. 

Revis man I hate that deal and I will forever hate that deal. Hated it then hate it more now. I figured after dropping 17 million I said fine whatever, at least we will get the best cb in the game.. Too bad we didn't get that one. He's no longer elite/shut down corner.. And we're paying him the most money. Really unfortunate.  He's still top 6 though, but we can't be paying him #1 money. 

[pointman]

4 minutes ago, jett said:

I'll say this, the first few weeks were rough for Cro, and I mean really rough..  but man did he settle down after that and ended up playing better than Revis. However he is far too inconsistent we have seen the great and the horrible from him, and we saw a little of both last year. 

Revis man I hate that deal and I will forever hate that deal. Hated it then hate it more now. I figured after dropping 17 million I said fine whatever, at least we will get the best cb in the game.. Too bad we didn't get that one. He's no longer elite/shut down corner.. And we're paying him the most money. Really unfortunate.  He's still top 6 though, but we can't be paying him #1 money. 

Revis is no longer elite? He plays with no safety help, taking on the other team's #1, and there were what, two guys who put yards on him? Revis travels sideline to sideline. But he isn't elite?  

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, jett said:

I'll say this, the first few weeks were rough for Cro, and I mean really rough..  but man did he settle down after that and ended up playing better than Revis. However he is far too inconsistent we have seen the great and the horrible from him, and we saw a little of both last year. 

Revis man I hate that deal and I will forever hate that deal. Hated it then hate it more now. I figured after dropping 17 million I said fine whatever, at least we will get the best cb in the game.. Too bad we didn't get that one. He's no longer elite/shut down corner.. And we're paying him the most money. Really unfortunate.  He's still top 6 though, but we can't be paying him #1 money. 

He did not play better than Revis. Don't disagree with you on Revis's value, though. When you sign him to that deal, and then take another DE when we pick 6th in the country, then that's how you lose a Mo Wilkerson. You could say we're going to get a first round pick for Mo, but we had a first round pick when we took Williams. I'm fine with moving on as we appear to be doing, but this is the cascade of events that goes into place when you sign someone to a record-setting contract like that.

I think just a lot of it was personal with bringing Revis back in. On paper it's not necessarily any smarter, but the fans welcomed it big-time and the team is here for the fans. So why not, I guess. Not like the team doesn't piss away $5M here/there every season anyway. Just have to be more careful to not do that this year and next because the margin of error is less with Revis eating up a good amount of otherwise error-margin space.

[jett]

8 minutes ago, pointman said:

Revis is no longer elite? He plays with no safety help, taking on the other team's #1, and there were what, two guys who put yards on him? Revis travels sideline to sideline. But he isn't elite?  

He didn't play very elite against buffalo. Elite means you're absolutely dominant. And at times he was, but more often than he was just very good. Maybe now that he's healthy he will be dominant again, but until I see it, can't say he was elite. He was better than most, but not the best. Right now he is just overpaid 

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He did not play better than Revis. Don't disagree with you on Revis's value, though. When you sign him to that deal, and then take another DE when we pick 6th in the country, then that's how you lose a Mo Wilkerson. You could say we're going to get a first round pick for Mo, but we had a first round pick when we took Williams. I'm fine with moving on as we appear to be doing, but this is the cascade of events that goes into place when you sign someone to a record-setting contract like that.

I think just a lot of it was personal with bringing Revis back in. On paper it's not necessarily any smarter, but the fans welcomed it big-time and the team is here for the fans. So why not, I guess. Not like the team doesn't piss away $5M here/there every season anyway. Just have to be more careful to not do that this year and next because the margin of error is less with Revis eating up a good amount of otherwise error-margin space.

Agreed, we have him for 2016 and I think can be released after next year, which I guarantee will happen. Too much money for a CB, especially one isn't the best at his position 

[Sperm Edwards]

On April 10, 2016 at 0:10 AM, jett said:

He didn't play very elite against buffalo. Elite means you're absolutely dominant. And at times he was, but more often than he was just very good. Maybe now that he's healthy he will be dominant again, but until I see it, can't say he was elite. He was better than most, but not the best. Right now he is just overpaid 

Agreed, we have him for 2016 and I think can be released after next year, which I guarantee will happen. Too much money for a CB, especially one isn't the best at his position 

No he didn't. But there's no evidence that suggests Cro would have shut Watkins down himself. It's also in question whether or not he was injured. Bowles claims he knew nothing of any Revis injury, but he has to say that now since Revis wasn't on the injury report.

Yeah he's going to be around through next year even if he noticeably slips some more. Only way he's cut is if he suddenly becomes awful, which I don't see happening. Too much guaranteed salary to cut him. It would require a really special situation, like McDougle, Williams, and Skrine all noticeably outplaying him, in which case you just eat the $6M guarantee because, painful as it is, it would still in the team's overall interest. But it's safe to say that's not happening absent a permanent Revis injury.

[pointman]

29 minutes ago, jett said:

He didn't play very elite against buffalo. Elite means you're absolutely dominant. And at times he was, but more often than he was just very good. Maybe now that he's healthy he will be dominant again, but until I see it, can't say he was elite. He was better than most, but not the best. Right now he is just overpaid 

Agreed, we have him for 2016 and I think can be released after next year, which I guarantee will happen. Too much money for a CB, especially one isn't the best at his position 

Glad you are the one who defines the word "Elite". Appreciate the lesson. You lost all credibility when you said Cro outplayed Revis. Have a good night.