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Fitz or Mo? Who can be more easily replaced?


Ex-Rex

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Right now Ryan Fitzpatrick is overplaying his hand but he knows in his heart that the Jets need him badly. Who else do they have? Geno Smith scares the be-Jesus out of me as a starter. We have already seen what he can do, and more importantly what he can't do, which is lead a team consistently. Mo Wilkerson on the other hand has his replacement already in house, in Leonard Williams a second year pro who is ready to show what he can do. I say drop the franchise tag on Mo which instantly makes him more tradeable or simply let him walk. If we lose Fitz, who will the Jets get? Brian Hoyer - yuck, Josh McCown double yuck. A trade for Mike Glennon? Triple yuck. The Bucs thought so little of him they replaced him with an ancient QB and then drafted Jameis Winston because they didn't think Glennon was the guy. Why should the Jets? I say let Mo go and use the money to sign Fitz. 10 million per season should do it, and they would still have 5.7 left after letting Wilkerson walk.

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4 minutes ago, pointman said:

10,000,000.00 Dollars..AMERICAN..for Ryan..Fitzpatrick. 

 

 

No.

Then get used to rooting for one of the other bums I mentioned, and I will be happy to point it out to you each and every week that these bums fail.

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Overall?  One of the best DEs in the game vs one of the better backup QBs in the game?..  Simple, Fitz is more easily replaceable.

For us, they both are easily replaceable.  We definitely already have Wilk's replacement in house (though it'd still be great to somehow bring him back), and we may already have QBs on the the roster who can outperform Fitz for much cheaper.

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2 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Overall?  One of the best DEs in the game vs one of the better backup QBs in the game?..  Simple, Fitz is more easily replaceable.

For us, they both are easily replaceable.  We definitely already have Wilk's replacement in house (though it'd still be great to somehow bring him back), and we may already have QBs on the the roster who can outperform Fitz for much cheaper.

If Bryce Petty was ready, Mac would have told Fitz to take a hike. If you want another season of Geno Smith - which would make me wretch - then it looks more and more like you'll get it. And the Jets will finish 6-10.

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4 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

On most teams, Wilk is harder to replace.  Hands down.

On the Jets, because of the D-Line depth that they have, and the lack of another QB on the roster, it's Fitz.

Hardly, we can easily trade for McCown and get the same level of play from him that we got from Fitz.

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9 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

If Bryce Petty was ready, Mac would have told Fitz to take a hike. If you want another season of Geno Smith - which would make me wretch - then it looks more and more like you'll get it. And the Jets will finish 6-10.

Allowing Fitz to test the market this long while we sign other players isn't far off from telling Fitz to "take a hike".  I mean, if ya really want a QB, you get that deal done ASAP at the expense of other positions.  We haven't.

At first glance of our '16 opponents, I thought we were screwed this season regardless of who was the QB.  With what Macc has been able to do this offseason though, I'm gradually becoming more optimistic.  Again, regardless of who is the QB, we can make some noise.

However I think to have a legit chance at making real noise, we need a QB who can outperform what Fitz did last season.  Of Fitz, Geno and Petty, there's one who I know won't outperform last year.

And that's Fitz.

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1 minute ago, Mike135 said:

Allowing Fitz to test the market this long while we sign other players isn't far off from telling Fitz to "take a hike".  I mean, if ya really want a QB, you get that deal done ASAP at the expense of other positions.  We haven't.

At first glance of our '16 opponents, I thought we were screwed this season regardless of who was the QB.  With what Macc has been able to do this offseason though, I'm gradually becoming more optimistic.  Again, regardless of who is the QB, we can make some noise.

However I think it to have a legit chance at making real noise, we need a QB who can outperform what Fitz did last season.  Of Fitz, Geno and Petty, there's one who I know won't outperform last year.

And that's Fitz.

None of those QB's will touch what Fitz did last year. I know that and Mac knows that, but who would be the QB that gives the Jets the best CHANCE TO WIN? Geno Smith? No feakin way. Bryce Petty? Not a chance...yet. There has been some talk of the Jets drafting a QB which I agree with, but is that guy gonna come in and be the next Broadway Joe? Didn't think so. Really, although Fitz won't match his numbers from last year, he gives the Jets the best chance to be competitive. I never said pay him what he wants because that is ludicrous, but 9-10 million is already on the table according to Rich Cimini so get it done. Oh, yeah, they can't because they don't have the cash because 15.7 million is designated to Wilkerson. Get it?

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1 minute ago, Ex-Rex said:

None of those QB's will touch what Fitz did last year. I know that and Mac knows that, but who would be the QB that gives the Jets the best CHANCE TO WIN? Geno Smith? No feakin way. Bryce Petty? Not a chance...yet. There has been some talk of the Jets drafting a QB which I agree with, but is that guy gonna come in and be the next Broadway Joe? Didn't think so. Really, although Fitz won't match his numbers from last year, he gives the Jets the best chance to be competitive. I never said pay him what he wants because that is ludicrous, but 9-10 million is already on the table according to Rich Cimini so get it done. Oh, yeah, they can't because they don't have the cash because 15.7 million is designated to Wilkerson. Get it?

Cimini never reported that the jets are offering $10M to fitz 

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2 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Well Mo is like a top notch prime cut of beef, while Fitz is the meat ends the grocery store sells on the discount rack.

Hope that answers your question. 

Well, no it doesn't. Are you saying a DE is worth QB money? No matter how "prime cut" of meat he is he is NOT worth 15.7 million and never will be. Joe Klecko he is not. He's not even Mark Gastineau for christ sakes.

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8 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

... but who would be the QB that gives the Jets the best CHANCE TO WIN? 

In my opinion yes, if I had to bet everything I have on who will most likely win more consistently... tough, but I say Fitz.

I believe you're asking the wrong question though.

My question is, what QB gives us the best shot at MAKING THE PLAYOFFS?

That is hands down Geno.

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28 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

Right now Ryan Fitzpatrick is overplaying his hand but he knows in his heart that the Jets need him badly. Who else do they have? Geno Smith scares the be-Jesus out of me as a starter. We have already seen what he can do, and more importantly what he can't do, which is lead a team consistently. Mo Wilkerson on the other hand has his replacement already in house, in Leonard Williams a second year pro who is ready to show what he can do. I say drop the franchise tag on Mo which instantly makes him more tradeable or simply let him walk. If we lose Fitz, who will the Jets get? Brian Hoyer - yuck, Josh McCown double yuck. A trade for Mike Glennon? Triple yuck. The Bucs thought so little of him they replaced him with an ancient QB and then drafted Jameis Winston because they didn't think Glennon was the guy. Why should the Jets? I say let Mo go and use the money to sign Fitz. 10 million per season should do it, and they would still have 5.7 left after letting Wilkerson walk.

If you remove the tag from Wilkerson, he doesn't become more tradable, he becomes a free agent. The Jets then go from maybe getting first round value back for him in a trade this year, to hoping they get a compensatory third rounder (somewhere around pick 100) for him in 2017. It's a waiting game right now, one that the Jets are smart to wait out. 

I hope Cimini's report is false. I hope the Jets aren't offering any more than the $7-8M originally reported. There's no reason for them to up their offer when no one else is offering anything more. And regardless of what you see as potential replacements, it's obvious that the Jets want to replace Fitz ASAP. They're bringing in every top QB prospect in the draft. Fitz is a placeholder, not a long term solution or someone who they see leading the team for more than one season. Why pay heavily for that? I'd prefer a McCown or Hoyer on a one year/$5M deal over Fitz for multiple years at $10M/per. Fitz just had a magic season against the league's easiest schedule in unprecedentedly mild football weather. Those circumstances are unlikely to repeat. 

The potential value they should get in a Wilkerson trade is certainly worth the minimal risk of Fitzpatrick possibly signing somewhere else. 

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Fitzpatrick is more easily replaced no doubt about it.  Even best case scenario he is a two more year solution, the Jets know this, everyone knows this.  Mo Wilk is a young impact Dlineman, even with our depth he will be a loss.

In reality these two players and how their stories play out have almost nothing to do with each other so the who is a bigger loss question is moot and only fodder for other discussions we have been over for ages on this forum.

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I dont think you can compare MO to Williams. I would like to see how  LW plays in the next 2 years before we can say he is MO's equal or better. I think if we lose MO we will regret it.  Can u imagine whats it going to be lke when we have to  re-sign Sheldon.

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12 minutes ago, slats said:

If you remove the tag from Wilkerson, he doesn't become more tradable, he becomes a free agent. The Jets then go from maybe getting first round value back for him in a trade this year, to hoping they get a compensatory third rounder (somewhere around pick 100) for him in 2017. It's a waiting game right now, one that the Jets are smart to wait out. 

I hope Cimini's report is false. I hope the Jets aren't offering any more than the $7-8M originally reported. There's no reason for them to up their offer when no one else is offering anything more. And regardless of what you see as potential replacements, it's obvious that the Jets want to replace Fitz ASAP. They're bringing in every top QB prospect in the draft. Fitz is a placeholder, not a long term solution or someone who they see leading the team for more than one season. Why pay heavily for that? I'd prefer a McCown or Hoyer on a one year/$5M deal over Fitz for multiple years at $10M/per. Fitz just had a magic season against the league's easiest schedule in unprecedentedly mild football weather. Those circumstances are unlikely to repeat. 

The potential value they should get in a Wilkerson trade is certainly worth the minimal risk of Fitzpatrick possibly signing somewhere else. 

As usual Slats your answer was thoughtful and precise. I am not an advocate of making Fitz Jets QB for life. But I think he is far more able than Josh McCown or Brian Hoyer - both whom failed at their last place of employment - to get the Jets to the playoffs. Maybe not. Maybe Fitz regresses into old Fitz as he did in Buffalo, which would be a disaster, but the Jets aren't breaking the bank at what they are offering. I only said 10 million because that is what I think Cimini is referencing in his column. I don't think Fitz is worth the 7 million being offered right now, but he does know the system and I think he gives the Jets the best chance to continue their upward climb from the 4-12 disaster that was Rex Ryan's last season.

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Neither one of them really factor in as a long term solution for the Jets.  Mo because of his contract, Fitz because of his age.  To elaborate, the contract Mo is seeking, and frankly deserves since some team out there will pay him, is detrimental to the long term team needs.  Even if Fitz can duplicate his season a year ago, a huge IF, it's for what a year or 2?  It's completely a stopgap situation.  This offseason and next are really watershed moments for the Jets, and I believe the focus needs to be on the future.  That focus may entail us losing Wilk for compensation and Fitz because we really need to look to solidifying the QB position long term.  A franchise QB is a 15 year investment.  Delaying that investment for the hopes of a decent year from Fitz is a mistake in my eyes.  My opinion is to trade Wilk and use that pick along with what we currently have to make a move for a franchise QB.  Hold firm to our position on Fitz and force him to decide if he'll play this year at a reduced starter rate or go test the market at true backup dollars.  This allows us to not rush into starting a draftee right away if we don't need to. 

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4 minutes ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

I dont think you can compare MO to Williams. I would like to see how  LW plays in the next 2 years before we can say he is MO's equal or better. I think if we lose MO we will regret it.  Can u imagine whats it going to be lke when we have to  re-sign Sheldon.

I doubt he will be asking for QB money. Mo obviously wants out of the Jets for whatever reason. Maybe he is upset at Mac for not throwing some of the oodles of money he had at his disposal last season, which I think is the case and now he wants to force his way out the way Revis did. So, I say, let him go.

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29 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

In my opinion yes, if I had to bet everything I have on who will most likely win more consistently... tough, but I say Fitz.

I believe you're asking the wrong question though.

My question is, what QB gives us the best shot at MAKING THE PLAYOFFS?

That is hands down Geno.

Have you SEEN Geno play??? If you had you would never make such a ridiculous statement. Geno Smith will never be a starter again in his entire NFL career, I don't care where he goes. The game is too fast for him and he makes bad decisions under pressure. That is who Geno Smith is and always will be. You can throw all you want in practice against air, and against a defense that can't touch you, but can you do it on game day? Geno has PROVEN he can't do it consistently against the better teams. 

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6 minutes ago, cant wait said:

Because OP wants to get rid of mo in order to pay Fitzpatrick an absurd amount 

I get that.  

They can pay both if they want ,they don't want to commit long term to Mo with the money tied to the DL and don't think Fitz is worth more than what they're offering.

its not that hard and they're not tied to each other anymore than when people thought that once D'Brick was off the books afire would get paid.  

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3 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

I doubt he will be asking for QB money. Mo obviously wants out of the Jets for whatever reason. Maybe he is upset at Mac for not throwing some of the oodles of money he had at his disposal last season, which I think is the case and now he wants to force his way out the way Revis did. So, I say, let him go.

I don't think he obviously wants out of the Jets.  I think he obviously wants a top dollar contract, and I can't fault him.  Conversely I can't fault the Jets for not wanting to pay that.  It's not that the Jets don't think he's worth it, it's that it isn't a need commensurate with the cost.  A contract the size of what Mo is seeking is going to cost right near the Franchise tag dollar figure year to year, so franchising him is a no brainer.  Trading him for a solid offer is also reasonable. 

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7 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

I doubt he will be asking for QB money. Mo obviously wants out of the Jets for whatever reason. Maybe he is upset at Mac for not throwing some of the oodles of money he had at his disposal last season, which I think is the case and now he wants to force his way out the way Revis did. So, I say, let him go.

Can you imagine if a FO actually thought this way?  

He wants to get paid what others, lesser players, at his position get paid.  its not rocket science. 

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12 minutes ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

I dont think you can compare MO to Williams. I would like to see how  LW plays in the next 2 years before we can say he is MO's equal or better. I think if we lose MO we will regret it.  Can u imagine whats it going to be lke when we have to  re-sign Sheldon.

I don't think the comparison is Mo to Williams straight.  It's Mo at 16+m a year vs Williams on a rookie deal. 

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5 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

Have you SEEN Geno play??? If you had you would never make such a ridiculous statement. Geno Smith will never be a starter again in his entire NFL career, I don't care where he goes. The game is too fast for him and he makes bad decisions under pressure. That is who Geno Smith is and always will be. You can throw all you want in practice against air, and against a defense that can't touch you, but can you do it on game day? Geno has PROVEN he can't do it consistently against the better teams. 

Yup, I have seen Geno play and I disagree completely.

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2 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

You're on your train of one brother.  You can brag to the high heavens if you're right but it's real doubtful he's even going to get that shot. 

Ha, yup well aware.  Definitely would be a fun day or two of gloating, but I realize it's not likely.

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