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18 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

I am not writing off Smith(Devon on course) or Amaro.  I think they show up this year :)

I hope so.  That would be huge for the team. 

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3 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

I doubt this has anything to do with Devin Smith. The Jets have no proven receivers outside of Kerley/Marshall. 

Fitz threw 31TD's and 3,900 yards last season. Decker and Marshall accounted for 26TD's and over 2,500 yards. Though we were running 4 WR sets it was really the Marshall & Decker show. Smith was our deep threat Fitz isnt an accurate passer or a deep ball thrower so Smith was pretty limited since he's learning the route tree. You bring in another receiver that can be a legit target and maybe a new QB that could at the deep pass to the offense and this offense would be insane. However, if we end up keeping Fitzpatrick I dont like the Fuller/Coleman options. They're both deep threats and Fuller from what I've read doesnt have natural hands. I would rather have Treadwell, a guy who could be a viable option on every down and has natural catching ability. Guys like Devin Smith, Fuller and Coleman will not be relevant in this offense until we get a QB that can make the deep pass a legit threat. 

You can't blame the QB for the crappy play of Devin smith.  Smith got no separation, dropped balls, and couldn't win a jump ball battle with a knife in his hand.  Same as the last 2nd Rd. WR we took because Golly he sure runs fast!  Bad pick.  Crap WR.  Nothing to do with Fitzpatrick.

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2 minutes ago, sirlancemehlot said:

You can't blame the QB for the crappy play of Devin smith.  Smith got no separation, dropped balls, and couldn't win a jump ball battle with a knife in his hand.  Same as the last 2nd Rd. WR we took because Golly he sure runs fast!  Bad pick.  Crap WR.  Nothing to do with Fitzpatrick.

Devin smiths best ability is the deep ball, he was raw coming out of Ohio state and when your QB can't throw the ball more than 20 yards accurately this is what happens to deep ball guys.

look at mike Wallace, he was an elite deep ball receiver in Pittsburgh but as soon as he left there the guys he played with couldn't hit him deep so his numbers fell way down, plenty of other examples too.

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23 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

Um, yeah.  I loved your Treadwell pick in your latest mock.

I feel that Macc is going to draft value in the first round; doesn't matter who.  And I've felt that Treadwell is going to be that guy. 

 Is he the VTF receiver this year?

Im not sure yet. I havent been able to dive into the prospects the way I usually do every year. I do like Treadwell though. One "must" for me when it comes to WR's is their natural hands. Treadwell has very good hands. He also runs very good routes and will block. 

 

I'll say this, if the Jets pick him @ 20 I think we'll have a stud on our hands. He's worth the pick imo. 

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11 hours ago, ChuckkieB said:

a WR would be a waste of a pick in any round IMO.  Many actual needs to fill, and I don't think WR is one of them.

While not a pressing need, this team is not good or young enough to be set anywhere other than DL. Devin Smith is as much a disappointment thus far as Pryor was after his first year. Lets hope he can bounce back like Pryor, but until he shows he can, WR should be strongly considered if they like a player.

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25 minutes ago, Colgateman said:

Devin smiths best ability is the deep ball, he was raw coming out of Ohio state and when your QB can't throw the ball more than 20 yards accurately this is what happens to deep ball guys.

look at mike Wallace, he was an elite deep ball receiver in Pittsburgh but as soon as he left there the guys he played with couldn't hit him deep so his numbers fell way down, plenty of other examples too.

Decker caught 80 balls for over 1000yds and 12 TD s. Marshall gained over 1500yds for the best season of his career. They were 3rd and 4th rounders respectively. A 2nd rd pick needs to be a better football player. If all you run is a go route you're getting covered in the NFL. 

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Ok. First off, let's not write off Amaro and especially D.Smith as busts. Smith played one season (10 games before he got hurt) with a QB (Fitz) that could not utilize D.Smith's biggest strength- the deep ball. I noticed one poster said he could not get separation and could not win jump balls. True about the jump balls. Not true about separation. All the separation he got disappeared when Fitz threw the ball as he simply could not throw it deep enough. Smith's strength was never winning jump balls or being physical. He is a speedster that is best at getting behind the defense. He DOES have good hands. His very good at adjusting to deep throws and making tough catches. This is what was so evident on his tape coming out of school. He' not a 'crap receiver' and wasn't just drafted b/c he is 'fast'. You don;t like the pick, you think he stinks, thats fine- but what a dumb, generalized statement. Let's give this kid a chance before we bury him. 

 

Amaro had a solid rookie season, yes he needs to improve blocking (which he worked on diligently last offseason) and he had some drops, but he is far from a bust and was not able to put together a sophomore campaign due to injury.    

 

Personally, unless a top talent like Treadwell falls (or the Jets really like someone else) I don't see them taking a WR in rd. one. But it IS a need. After Decker and Marshall, the Jets have no proven WR.

I'm still a believer that they will take OT or QB in round 1. And I believe there WILL be a Wilk trade that will give the Jets ammo to trade up for a QB if they feel like he might not fall to them at 20. Specifically, I am thinking P.Lynch. Who has been a late 1st rounder-early 2nd rounder until his stock recently started to shoot up after his great Pro Day. So, although its still possible that Lynch will fall to them at 20, I think the Jets will be willing to move up a few spots for him if he is in range. I think a lot of people are over-emphasizing the willingness of some teams to gamble on a project QB like Lynch early in the draft. Some have SF and PHI going after QBs. I'm not sold on that. If you have the 7th or 8th overall pick and the top 2 QBs are gone, with the #3 QB being a project, in a (for all intensive purposes) weak QB draft, you probably want to go after BPA. Think about the talent you would have to pass up at 7 and 8 to take P.Lynch. Mac  is not the only GM that like to go BPA in the 1st round. It's very much possible that the P.Lynch falls to the Jets at 20 or into the late teens where they an move up to get him.   

I'm sticking with my prediction that the Jets will make a Wilk trade that will give them ammo to move up and get P.Lynch and then address the OT position.

I believe (barring the guys they want being gone), the Jets will focus on addressing positions of need more so than simply going BPA- which is uncharacteristic of Mac. 

If the Jets can finagle a Wilk deal with the Titans for the 15th pick, they should be able to get P.Lynch. If this deal also allows them to hold on to their 1st round pick, they should be able to get OT-Decker (or Spriggs if they prefer him). That's my prediction, and although it would be a best case scenario of sorts, I think it can be done.

Wilk is worth a high 2nd rounder right now- but if a team really likes him, they would be willing to pull the trigger on a deal that values him more. If the Jets can package him and their 2nd round pick (maybe throw in their 4th or a conditional pick next year?), they might be able to acquire the Titans pick at 15 (who are now flush with draft picks and are probably willing to deal), leaving them with the 15th and 20th in the first round. OR The Jets might simply ask to move up from 20 to 15 and by moving Wilk (maybe they can even get a 2nd round pick swap in addition to that, moving them up in the 2nd round). 

Expect Mac to be willing to trade up, expect him to go after QB and OT, expect him to deal Wilk. Should be an exciting draft for Jets fans.       

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52 minutes ago, sirlancemehlot said:

Decker caught 80 balls for over 1000yds and 12 TD s. Marshall gained over 1500yds for the best season of his career. They were 3rd and 4th rounders respectively. A 2nd rd pick needs to be a better football player. If all you run is a go route you're getting covered in the NFL. 

Guys who basically only go deep:

desean Jackson 

TY hilton

mike Wallace 

jordy nelson

Sammy Watkins 

Terrance williams

mike floyd 

 

all seem to have/had several great years, being a deep ball receiver doesn't mean a guy is trash.

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5 hours ago, jamesr said:

Talent is always a need. If you draft primarily for positional need you end up picking inferior talent to fill a hole (either real or perceived).

The GM has to build a talent base to make this team competitive for many years to come - as mentioned above, if Marshall is gone in two years, what do we have at WR? A hole to fill. Having a greater talent level on the roster makes these holes easier to fill. "Next man up".

SO you're saying they'll be no talent at the OL, QB, ILB, LB and CB position when its our turn to pick. All these positions are more imperative at this point than a WR.  Marshall has 2 years left. Decker, probably more. Yes WR is equally important BUT right now at LB we are extremely thin. Harris is on his last legs.  At QB, we have already made an attempt to trade down to #1, which I wouldn't totally be against,  so Mac obviously sees certain positions as a NEED and wants to procure the top talent there if he can.  If he cant get Goff or Wentz or Lynch, then fall back to plan B which is BPA at OL, OLB, ILB. 

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45 minutes ago, Powpow said:

SO you're saying they'll be no talent at the OL, QB, ILB, LB and CB position when its our turn to pick. All these positions are more imperative at this point than a WR.  Marshall has 2 years left. Decker, probably more. Yes WR is equally important BUT right now at LB we are extremely thin. Harris is on his last legs.  At QB, we have already made an attempt to trade down to #1, which I wouldn't totally be against,  so Mac obviously sees certain positions as a NEED and wants to procure the top talent there if he can.  If he cant get Goff or Wentz or Lynch, then fall back to plan B which is BPA at OL, OLB, ILB. 

I'm not saying no talent - it's all relative.

Let's say you score all players out of 100. At your pick, you need a LT, and the best one you have rated as 70/100. There's also a WR there who you have rated 85/100, but you don't necessarily need a WR.

The need pick is the LT, but the talent / value pick is the WR.

Now it's not always that clear cut - let's say the LT is 70 and the WR is 75, it's a lot easier to take the LT as the difference isn't so great. But overall, drafting for need is why teams pick Blaine Gabbert one pick before JJ Watt.

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5 minutes ago, jamesr said:

I'm not saying no talent - it's all relative.

Let's say you score all players out of 100. At your pick, you need a LT, and the best one you have rated as 70/100. There's also a WR there who you have rated 85/100, but you don't necessarily need a WR.

The need pick is the LT, but the talent / value pick is the WR.

Now it's not always that clear cut - let's say the LT is 70 and the WR is 75, it's a lot easier to take the LT as the difference isn't so great. But overall, drafting for need is why teams pick Blaine Gabbert one pick before JJ Watt.

Or Blair Thomas before Junior Seau or Cortez Kennedy. But I digress.:lol:

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6 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

I doubt this has anything to do with Devin Smith. The Jets have no proven receivers outside of Kerley/Marshall. 

Fitz threw 31TD's and 3,900 yards last season. Decker and Marshall accounted for 26TD's and over 2,500 yards. Though we were running 4 WR sets it was really the Marshall & Decker show. Smith was our deep threat Fitz isnt an accurate passer or a deep ball thrower so Smith was pretty limited since he's learning the route tree. You bring in another receiver that can be a legit target and maybe a new QB that could at the deep pass to the offense and this offense would be insane. However, if we end up keeping Fitzpatrick I dont like the Fuller/Coleman options. They're both deep threats and Fuller from what I've read doesnt have natural hands. I would rather have Treadwell, a guy who could be a viable option on every down and has natural catching ability. Guys like Devin Smith, Fuller and Coleman will not be relevant in this offense until we get a QB that can make the deep pass a legit threat. 

Don't think we should limit our options at WR based on the assumption that Fitz will be back this year.   I know you don't like Fitz, but if he is here as a stop gap it is one/two years at most.   If we pick a deep threat he will then have some experience to work with the future franchise QB whoever that may be.

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15 hours ago, AFJF said:

Can't say I wouldn't be disappointed if they felt they had to draft Devin Smith's replacement already....unless they feel Gailey will use tons of 4 and 5 WR sets.

I don't think they would be looking for Smith's permanent replacement at this point, but 1) he did have a very disapointing year, ran bad routes right to the end.  2) Got hurt very late in the season, probably going to miss most of camp.  Maybe even open season on 8 game IR.  The kid badly needs reps, probbly going to be another lost season for him. 

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2 hours ago, pajet said:

Don't think we should limit our options at WR based on the assumption that Fitz will be back this year.   I know you don't like Fitz, but if he is here as a stop gap it is one/two years at most.   If we pick a deep threat he will then have some experience to work with the future franchise QB whoever that may be.

I dont think that we'll limit our options at WR because of Fitz....I was just stating the obvious. Its not about my feelings on Fitz. I like Fitz, as a back up. However, if we're going to go with Fitz then we might as well get a weapon he could actually use. 

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18 hours ago, Il Mostro said:

 

Ditto.  And face it, we are long past the over/under on Marshall's brain chemistry remaining in balance and manageable.  I love the guy, but he remains a kook just waiting to blow up when least expected.  Grooming a #1 now isn't a bad idea.

Yep.  And you don't pass on a WR if you project him to be a Steve Smith type player to take an OLB you project to be a Calvin Pace type player because you NEED an OLB.

Good thing Mac understands this.

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15 hours ago, Powpow said:

Yes it is because we need a QB, OL and LB's and a CB at this juncture.  WR's are a luxury right now.  Why not just say fock it use all 6 picks to redo the special teams unit.  

Dude, if a guy is sitting there that you project to be a really good player, you don't pass on him for a player at a position of need.

If you have Marshall-Decker-really good rookie WR, you go out there and you destroy other teams by throwing the ball.

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6 hours ago, jamesr said:

I'm not saying no talent - it's all relative.

Let's say you score all players out of 100. At your pick, you need a LT, and the best one you have rated as 70/100. There's also a WR there who you have rated 85/100, but you don't necessarily need a WR.

The need pick is the LT, but the talent / value pick is the WR.

Now it's not always that clear cut - let's say the LT is 70 and the WR is 75, it's a lot easier to take the LT as the difference isn't so great. But overall, drafting for need is why teams pick Blaine Gabbert one pick before JJ Watt.

Ok but there will be a OLB or ILB or CB or maybe even a QB at that high rating. Those 4 positions are weaker at this point than our WR's.  

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18 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

Dude, if a guy is sitting there that you project to be a really good player, you don't pass on him for a player at a position of need.

If you have Marshall-Decker-really good rookie WR, you go out there and you destroy other teams by throwing the ball.

Dude yea ok so you throw it since we don't have a QB who can throw.

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Think Macc is going to be true to his word.  He's going to take BAP, with need as a tie breaker.

God help the board if BAP is a DT.  And it could be :)

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23 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

Yep.  And you don't pass on a WR if you project him to be a Steve Smith type player to take an OLB you project to be a Calvin Pace type player because you NEED an OLB.

Good thing Mac understands this.

Really? Did I miss something ? Did the draft just pass me by? Did Mac just pick a WR? Uh no not in rd 1 anyways.

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Just now, Powpow said:

Dude yea ok so you throw it since we don't have a QB who can throw.

Fitzpatrick is a good passer, he just doesn't have the strongest arm.

Petty can throw it, too.  He just has a lot to learn.

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Just now, Powpow said:

Really? Did I miss something ? Did the draft just pass me by? Did Mac just pick a WR? Uh no not in rd 1 anyways.

Remember when he passed on Leonard Williams last year because he already had Wilkerson and Richardson?

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10 hours ago, j4jets said:

We all saw how important WRs are in this offense when BM played hurt n Devin was out. Our all-world QB started sh*tting the bed. 

QB is not going to help us this year. I think we go QB in round 2 since it'll be a reach at #20. I'm expecting an extra 2nd n a late rounder for Mo. That 2nd can be used on a LB or OT and so forth. 

Not saying we need a WR at 20, but I do think we need a WR at some point that can step up in year 2 or 3 as the starter. 2-3 years down the road, we probably won't have BM or Decker. 

Yes a WR at some point BUT not in rd 1 - rd 3. That really should be reserved for LB OL QB. There will be quality players available at those positions when we pick and that's where are biggest holes are.  As it is Mac tried to grab the #1 pick from the Titans.  Do you think he was planning on drafting Treadwell with the #1 pick in the draft. Thi steam needs a franchise QB and sooner or later Mac has to get one and he's willing to wait a year or two to have him groomed.  That's just the way it is whether you like it or not.      

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5 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

Remember when he passed on Leonard Williams last year because he already had Wilkerson and Richardson?

Yea and look at the other 5 teams that passed on him too.  He was a total luxury pick.  I love the kid but was totally unnecessary.  Look at the overflow and mess we are in now because of it.  I wanted Gurley who played lights out. We haven't had a RB like that since Curtis Martin.   

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3 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

Fitzpatrick is a good passer, he just doesn't have the strongest arm.

Petty can throw it, too.  He just has a lot to learn.

Agree 100%.

Fitz is the best bridge QB available.  He's willing to teach, as he has shown last year with Petty.  Whether it's Petty, Lynch, Cook, or maybe a QB taken in next year's draft.  I honestly can't think of another QB I want them learning behind.  And yes, he's got a poor arm.  He knows how to play football.

This is about the point that Fitz has to realize, nobody, NOBODY, is going to pay him 16-18 M.   I think he better move....................Soon 

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Just now, Powpow said:

Yea and look at the other 5 teams that passed on him too.  He was a total luxury pick.  I love the kid but was totally unnecessary.  Look at the overflow and mess we are in now because of it.  I wanted Gurley who played lights out. We haven't had a RB like that since Curtis Martin.   

No, he's the next Richard Seymour and he's cost controlled for the next four years.  They'll dump Wilkerson for a pick.  So they'll have a younger, cheaper player, a pick (second or third), AND cap room.

 

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8 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

Fitzpatrick is a good passer, he just doesn't have the strongest arm.

Petty can throw it, too.  He just has a lot to learn.

LOL Fitz is a good passer?  I love Fitz BUT he is anything but a 'good' passer'.  He's a lot of things but that's not one of them.  And Petty has potential but will he ever get a chance? From the sounds of it, it doesn't look good.   Mac damn near mortgaged the draft to grab Wentz of Goff so the confidence in Petty as even being a back up is minimal at best. 

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Just now, flgreen said:

Agree 100%.

Fitz is the best bridge QB available.  He's willing to teach, as he has shown last year with Petty.  Whether it's Petty, Lynch, Cook, or maybe a QB taken in next year's draft.  I honestly can't think of another QB I want them learning behind.  And yes, he's got a poor arm.  He knows how to play football.

This is about the point that Fitz has to realize, nobody, NOBODY, is going to pay him 16-18 M.   I think he better move....................Soon 

If Fitz had an arm, no one would bust on the guy.  He's got a tremendous feel for the game and knows where he needs to go with the ball.

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Just now, Powpow said:

LOL Fitz is a good passer?  I love Fitz BUT he is anything but a 'good' passer'.  He's a lot of things but that's not one of them.  And Petty has potential but will he ever get a chance? From the sounds of it, it doesn't look good.   Mac damn near mortgaged the draft to grab Wentz of Goff so the confidence in Petty as even being a back up is minimal at best. 

Fitz is a good passer.  A good short and intermediate passer, that is.  He can't push the ball down the field, but other than that, what are his weaknesses?

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Just now, Powpow said:

LOL Fitz is a good passer?  I love Fitz BUT he is anything but a 'good' passer'.  He's a lot of things but that's not one of them.  And Petty has potential but will he ever get a chance? From the sounds of it, it doesn't look good.   Mac damn near mortgaged the draft to grab Wentz of Goff so the confidence in Petty as even being a back up is minimal at best. 

What do you mean it doesn't look good?  The Jets are very happy with Bryce Petty so far.  Do you realize that Petty's teammates love him and that they're impressed with his studying and approach?

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Just now, detectivekimble said:

Fitz is a good passer.  A good short and intermediate passer, that is.  He can't push the ball down the field, but other than that, what are his weaknesses?

A good short and intermediate passer. I see.  I guess that's why Mac refuses to pay him more than  back up QB money. Why?  Because he cant hit a WR on a deep post if his life depended on it.  And that in itself is a very concerning weakness for a starting QB.  Even Tarkenton had the ability to throw the ball deep and he had one of the weakest arms ever in the NFL.  This team needs a QB. PERIOD.  Hopefully, he will find one ......or else.    

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20 hours ago, ChuckkieB said:

a WR would be a waste of a pick in any round IMO.  Many actual needs to fill, and I don't think WR is one of them.

Couldn't disagree more. 

WR is a major positional need. You have to have a pipeline of awesome coming into the organization. Jet fans are so used to the team barely having 1 relevant WR, and always needing find a new one AFTER the last one is washed up. Why not get ahead of that curve and have the next guy ready and waiting BEFORE the veterans go out to pasture?

 

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3 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

What do you mean it doesn't look good?  The Jets are very happy with Bryce Petty so far.  Do you realize that Petty's teammates love him and that they're impressed with his studying and approach?

Mac tried to get the #1 pick from the Titans or have you been living under a rock?  Do you think he's looking to draft a punter with it? 

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Just now, Powpow said:

A good short and intermediate passer. I see.  I guess that's why Mac refuses to pay him more than  back up QB money. Why?  Because he cant hit a WR on a deep post if his life depended on it.  And that in itself is a very concerning weakness for a starting QB.  Even Tarkenton had the ability to throw the ball deep and he had one of the weakest arms ever in the NFL.  This team needs a QB. PERIOD.  Hopefully, he will find one ......or else.    

Why would Mac pay him more than he has to?  He's still going to get around $10 million.  Which backups get paid that much?

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