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Tanking for a QB?


jett

Would you tank a season for a quarterback?   

72 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you tank a season for a quarterback?

    • Yes
      26
    • No
      45


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1 minute ago, section314 said:

Andy Dalton would give him a pretty good run for his money.

Matt Ryan (All stats taken from Football Outsiders):
- Top 10 OL for pass protection his whole career except 2014 when the OL was ranked 11th best in pass protection.
- Played with all or some combination of HOF Tony Gonzalez, Julio Jones, Roddy White his entire career
- Had solid RBs in Turner/SJax/Freeman. Not great, but not awful
- First 5 years in the league, his defenses averaged in the top half of the league; so while not top 10, still better than half or more than the league. The last three years, he's admittedly played on teams with significantly terrible defenses. 
- Even with all of that said, the Jets have more playoff game appearances and wins than the Falcons since Matty Ice was drafted. And that's some sh*t, cuz we've only made the playoffs twice in that span. 

The main thing to recognize with Matty Ice, is that his crunch time play is awful. People who defend him love to use the excuse of ATL's bad defenses; except that when you think back to every playoff game that the Falcons have lost since drafting Ryan (or check the play-by-play history on nfl.com), you notice that the defense had the team in a favorable position with the game on the line. And each time Matty Ice had the ball at a critical time in the 4Q with the game still in the air, he either threw an int, fumbled the ball, or took a terrible sack which would prove to be the catalyst for the loss.

If you want to say Dalton is more overrated, that's fine. To me, everyone rates Dalton appropriately; he takes a lot of flack for that team not doing well.

Matt Ryan, for whatever reason, is looked at as the golden boy that does no wrong - hence why I think he's easily the most overrated. 

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3 minutes ago, gEYno said:

FWIW, if this is true, then the most overrated QB in the league is still better than anyone we've had at the position while he's been in the league, and far better than Vernon Gholston.

I never said he wouldn't be better than anyone we've had, or that he's not better than Gholston. I just maintain that there isn't another QB who is as highly regarded as Ryan is, for such awful on-field performance given all the factors, since he was drafted. 

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14 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I never said he wouldn't be better than anyone we've had, or that he's not better than Gholston. I just maintain that there isn't another QB who is as highly regarded as Ryan is, for such awful on-field performance given all the factors, since he was drafted. 

That's fine.  But, it's also kind of irrelevant, since we'd be extremely lucky to have had him.

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4 minutes ago, gEYno said:

That's fine.  But, it's also kind of irrelevant, since we'd be extremely lucky to have had him.

Matt Ryan means no Mark Sanchez, no Geno, and no Brett Favre's tiny penis. None of that ever happens. Think about that. It's essentially the Jets' version of if George McFly knocks Biff out.

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1 minute ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Matt Ryan means no Mark Sanchez, no Geno, and no Brett Favre's tiny penis. None of that ever happens. Think about that. It's essentially the Jets' version of if George McFly knocks Biff out.

and we'd have less playoff wins.

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31 minutes ago, gEYno said:

That's fine.  But, it's also kind of irrelevant, since we'd be extremely lucky to have had him.

Responding about Matt Ryan being overrated when someone brings up how much we've missed out on by not having him? Irrelevant?

Sure, he may have produced as well for us in the regular season as he has down there, but I was pointing out that he also may not have, given that he had a far better supporting cast down there, and has shown absolutely no ability to carry a team when the talent level decreases, as proven over the last three years with a combined 0-3 winning seasons, and 12 games below .500. 

Sure we may have advanced further in the postseason with him here, but I was pointing out that his awful postseason play is the driving force behind their even more woeful postseason experience than the Jets in the same time frame. 

If you mean irrelevant, in that this is an irrelevant exercise since we're not going to be able to go back and sub Matt in on the Jets during those years, then sure, irrelevant. 

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14 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

What good are a couple of Wild Card and Division playoff wins if you can't win the Conference Championship to get to the Big Dance?

Same as missing the playoffs all together.

No it's not.  it sucks losing the title games but it sure was fun getting there and you can't get to a SB w.o getting to that game first so at least we had a chance.

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56 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

What good are a couple of Wild Card and Division playoff wins if you can't win the Conference Championship to get to the Big Dance?

Same as missing the playoffs all together.

it's really not. Remember the Ravens prior to their victory, they lost to the Pats like every year but eventually, they got enough experienced guys together to overcome the rampant cheating that occurs every time Tom Brady steps on a football field. Teams with playoff experience build on that experience.

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5 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

2015 had two good quarterbacks. We were in a position to draft one of two with four games left. The math isn't too difficult on that one. 

+1. 

Would never ever go into the season with Tank Mode. But the last game or two of the season you "Give the younger guys some reps". 

For those that think this doesn't happen - Your simply not aware of how Tampa Bay got Jamie Winston. Tampa was winning the last game against NO I believe and suddenly pulled all of there starters for the second half which cost them the game. They got Winston. 

 

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+1. 

Would never ever go into the season with Tank Mode. But the last game or two of the season you "Give the younger guys some reps". 

For those that think this doesn't happen - Your simply not aware of how Tampa Bay got Jamie Winston. Tampa was winning the last game against NO I believe and suddenly pulled all of there starters for the second half which cost them the game. They got Winston. 

 

How do you know that the Bucs weren't just resting their starters for the start of the next season?

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5 hours ago, flgreen said:

your that sure that Lynch is that special guy?  I'm sure not

So let me guess, you think we should take Cook, 56.1 completion percentage and all?  Or just wait till the next Andrew Luck falls to us somewhere in the teens and draft him? 

Oh hell, why don't we just let Geno run this team into the ground.  Unfortunately, even that won't help.  Whether or not Cleveland passes on a QB at two, they are still by and large the worst team in the league and will be picking atop of the draft next year.

you can stick your head in the sand, afraid to take a chance on a guy that has all the tools and production warranted of a first round pick.  That leaves you buying a lottery ticket by way of wasting 3rd day picks on scrubs with marginal back up ceilings and hope you find lightning in a bottle.

if you trust your coaching staff to develop a top QB, you have to draft one.  If you tell them to make filet Minot out of dog sh*t (McElroy, Boyd, etc) the team will just extend its no playoff streak it's currently stuck in.

 

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29 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

How do you know that the Bucs weren't just resting their starters for the start of the next season?

I think what was BS was they denied it and strictly gave BS responses when questioned. 

 

Quote

Bucs pull many starters at halftime, deny tanking for No. 1 pick

 

Lovie Smith Bucs

 

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers blew a 20-7 halftime lead against the New Orleans Saints on Sunday and lost 23-20 to finish the season 2-14, which allowed them to secure the No. 1 overall pick in the 2015 NFL draft.

Though the evidence points to Tampa Bay tanking in order to secure the top pick, head coach Lovie Smith and some players said that was not the case.

“Yeah, we didn’t have some of our best players right at the end but the guys we had in there we felt like we could move the ball and be able to win with,” Smith said via The Tampa Bay Times.

The Bucs pulled many of their starters at halftime and most of their key players by the fourth quarter, according to The Times. Tampa Bay allowed the Saints to score 10 points in the final two minutes of the game. 

“I don’t think anybody tanked it,” quarterback Josh McCown said following the game. “We played the guys we played to rotate guys in to give them a look.’’

Normally the explanation that they were giving other players a look would make sense, but when losing the game would arguably help the franchise, then the tanking accusations seem awfully convenient.

 

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Yes, the Colts tanked.  But that was their front office.  Kerry Collins?  Really.

and yes, everyone knows that both Ten and TB tanked for their current QBs.  What's really funny about it was that both coaches were in the first year of the team, and neither one of them survived their next season.  Karma's a bitch.

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22 minutes ago, Pcola said:

Yes, the Colts tanked.  But that was their front office.  Kerry Collins?  Really.

and yes, everyone knows that both Ten and TB tanked for their current QBs.  What's really funny about it was that both coaches were in the first year of the team, and neither one of them survived their next season.  Karma's a bitch.

So, I guess they won two out of the last three and almost blew it just to make it look good. Wow, that team was amazingly talented to be able to pull that off.

So the GM that got fired tanked the season to do the Irsay's a solid. Can you relate what that conversation was like?

Any idea about the Head Coach that got fired? Players on non-guaranteed contracts? They in on it?

Almost beat the Patriots and blew it in game 12 as well. Almost let the Browns back in the Andrew Luck sweepstakes with one game to go, on a two game winning streak, too.

Wanna tell me which All Pro QB was available to be signed off the street when Manning went down?

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43 minutes ago, Pcola said:

So let me guess, you think we should take Cook, 56.1 completion percentage and all?  Or just wait till the next Andrew Luck falls to us somewhere in the teens and draft him? 

Oh hell, why don't we just let Geno run this team into the ground.  Unfortunately, even that won't help.  Whether or not Cleveland passes on a QB at two, they are still by and large the worst team in the league and will be picking atop of the draft next year.

you can stick your head in the sand, afraid to take a chance on a guy that has all the tools and production warranted of a first round pick.  That leaves you buying a lottery ticket by way of wasting 3rd day picks on scrubs with marginal back up ceilings and hope you find lightning in a bottle.

if you trust your coaching staff to develop a top QB, you have to draft one.  If you tell them to make filet Minot out of dog sh*t (McElroy, Boyd, etc) the team will just extend its no playoff streak it's currently stuck in.

 

Not what I asked you.  I guess you can rant all you want, but IMO Lynch isn't a guy I'm trading up for, or going all in with.

If he falls to the Jets, and Macc likes him, we'll see what he's got.  I'd prefer not to.  It's funny you mentioned Cook, this time last year he was the guy people wanted to tank for.  And no, I have no particular interest in him.

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We talk about bringing in some respectable leaders.  People like Bowles and Maccagnan to bring respectability to this franchise and to right the ship.

And then we talk about tanking the entire next season for unknown prospects.  And it's freaking April?

I love the Internet.

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