Jets have reportedly looked into trading up to #2 pick.

[Sperm Edwards]

6 hours ago, LockeJET said:

guys...no team is taking Mo as compensation in a trade without having him locked up long term...You really think a team is making a huge trade for Mo with the chance to lose him the following year? So a trade would be contingent on Mo signing with that team long term...So Mo holds the cards because he doesn't have to agree to sign with any team..

1. Mo will sign with anyone who gives him the deal he's seeking. Mo has had 2 months to see who would be interested in him. It's doubtful there is a team his agent hasn't already spoken to. Keep in mind, Mo's a FA; he's not on the Jets' roster.

2. Mo almost assuredly has more value as a trade up chip than he does even-up for a pick outright, because there's no exact value for him. Once he's traded for a pick 1-for-1, it can no longer be rationalized that his value is any higher. We're far more likely to get round 1 value in trade than a (2016) round 1 pick.

[LockeJET]

5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

1. Mo will sign with anyone who gives him the deal he's seeking. Mo has had 2 months to see who would be interested in him. It's doubtful there is a team his agent hasn't already spoken to. Keep in mind, Mo's a FA; he's not on the Jets' roster.

2. Mo almost assuredly has more value as a trade up chip than he does even-up for a pick outright, because there's no exact value for him. Once he's traded for a pick 1-for-1, it can no longer be rationalized that his value is any higher. We're far more likely to get round 1 value in trade than a (2016) round 1 pick.

My point is - If Cleveland is not interested in signing Mo to his 100 million dollar deal, then he will not be part of the trade.. No team is trading for Mo unless they are willing to lock him up before the trade is final..

[Irish Jet]

7 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

There's no reason to trade for the second pick in this draft. There are basically four categories of quarterback prospects. Top 1, Top ~3, Top ~16, and everybody else. The middle two categories are sort of loosely defined but you get the idea. There are bigger disparities in success vs. investment between these ranges than there are within them. This year Goff is the guy, there's no the other guy, and I don't even think there's a Cutler. It's a draft full of everybody elses. One or more of them is going to have success but I dunno how much I'm willing to bet on any of them being that much better than the others. Take somebody on the second day. Take whoever.

Stop acting like there's a definitive formula at play here, it's completely subjective at this point. All of the QB's being touted in the first look pretty capable of being good QB's someday.

I remember how the Alex Smith/Aaron Rodgers class was considered weak whereas the Leinart/Young and Russell/Quinn classes were hyped to the moon. There's no right or wrong way to do it. If we like a guy, go and get him. 

[JustInFudge]

13 hours ago, RoadFan said:

 

 

Still talking about "mortgaging the future?"  How complicated is this concept for you to grasp?  THERE IS NO SUSTAINABLE FUTURE WITHOUT A FRANCHISE QB.  It doesn't matter how many draft picks you have, keep, and/or acquire.

 

And if you miss, you've mortgaged the future.  We went through this exercise.  Keep up. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, LockeJET said:

My point is - If Cleveland is not interested in signing Mo to his 100 million dollar deal, then he will not be part of the trade.. No team is trading for Mo unless they are willing to lock him up before the trade is final..

No doubt, but that's been the case for 2 months now. Superior player that Mo is, there's no evidence that either Tennessee or Cleveland is interested in signing Mo to that type of contract, let alone surrender the value of a high draft pick for the privilege. I'm sure - or I'd think - Maccagnan has been speaking to Mo's agent and has assessed whether either or both of those teams showed any interest in Mo while the agent was shopping his player around since March 9.

This has been the problem all along, and it's the reason why most ultra-high priced players (at their respective positions) - whose original teams can't/won't lock up long term - are simply let go to become UFAs, and the team just gets a 3rd round compensatory pick the next season and the instant cap relief: Suh, Vernon, Orange Julius, Byrd, etc. It's hard to get what fans/reporters consider appropriate/even trade value for these guys, and those bidding know the original team is eating up gobs of cap space on a player who isn't in their plans while all the good FAs are slipping away. There's also, oddly, more pressure on a GM to get round 1 trade value for a tagged player than if they'd simply not tagged the player in the first place.

Which is why I won't cry about it if we only get a 2nd rounder (or the value of a 2nd rounder), as much as I'd like it to be a full round higher. The highest bid is the highest bid. You can't force teams to value Mo more than they do, in surrendering both a giant contract and a 1st round pick for a player we're not locking up ourselves without trading away this year's 1st round pick. It's what made the Revis/Tampa trade so lucky, despite the cries of some of how much more he was worth. 30 teams told us to pound sand and it took until just before the draft to still get less than top 10 pick value for him.

[JustInFudge]

8 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

There's no reason to trade for the second pick in this draft. There are basically four categories of quarterback prospects. Top 1, Top ~3, Top ~16, and everybody else. The middle two categories are sort of loosely defined but you get the idea. There are bigger disparities in success vs. investment between these ranges than there are within them. This year Goff is the guy, there's no the other guy, and I don't even think there's a Cutler. It's a draft full of everybody elses. One or more of them is going to have success but I dunno how much I'm willing to bet on any of them being that much better than the others. Take somebody on the second day. Take whoever.

Yep.  No sense in mortgaging the future for sloppy seconds in a not so great year for drafting a QB.

None of these guys are elite prospects.  And the difference between them is marginal.  

Seriously, whats the difference between Wentz/Lynch and I dont know, say Cook/Prescott?  The answer is nothing even though we all want to be draftniks experts and act like there's something. 

[jetrider]

This might be the craziest first round draft to date but it's not cause Goff and Wentz are special, it's cause so many hopefuls turned out to be JAGs, there's a serious shortage of QB talent and teams are desperate.  

[dbatesman]

10 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

There's no reason to trade for the second pick in this draft. There are basically four categories of quarterback prospects. Top 1, Top ~3, Top ~16, and everybody else. The middle two categories are sort of loosely defined but you get the idea. There are bigger disparities in success vs. investment between these ranges than there are within them. This year Goff is the guy, there's no the other guy, and I don't even think there's a Cutler. It's a draft full of everybody elses. One or more of them is going to have success but I dunno how much I'm willing to bet on any of them being that much better than the others. Take somebody on the second day. Take whoever.

+1

Hogan or Prescott on day 3 is a much better investment than Lynch at ~15 overall.

[RoadFan]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

And if you miss, you've mortgaged the future.  We went through this exercise.  Keep up. T

 

You must be really excited about that future with Fitz, Geno, Petty or Hoyer at QB.  Maybe they add a decent LB and/or OL with the picks they don't trade.  The result is still mediocre.

That is not a future I am interested in anymore.  Sad that you can't see more than 5 minutes past the end of your nose.

  The Jets will win a SB when they have a star QB.  They should tank, trade up, sell the farm, etc. every 4 to 5 years until they find one.  Last time they tried was 2009, it's been long enough to have another go....

 

 

 

 

 

[JustInFudge]

13 hours ago, Powpow said:

I hope you have proof of this. You know Brady will sue you and take this to the supreme court.

 

[JustInFudge]

8 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

 

You must be really excited about that future with Fitz, Geno, Petty or Hoyer at QB.  Maybe they add a decent LB and/or OL with the picks they don't trade.  The result is still mediocre.

That is not a future I am interested in anymore.  Sad that you can't see more than 5 minutes past the end of your nose.

  The Jets will win a SB when they have a star QB.  They should tank, trade up, sell the farm, etc. every 4 to 5 years until they find one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dude, everyone gets you need a QB.  It's biggest duh ever.  You're not stating anything profound, at all.  That doesnt mean you do illogical things to get one and mortgage the future. 

This year the problem is, there are no elite QB's in this draft.  Especially one you mortgage the future for and end up getting the 2nd option because #1 isnt even available anymore. If there were a couple of elite prospects, I'd be all for it.  But there is not. 

It's that simple.

The difference between Wentz and Cook or Prescott or Hogan or any of those mid rounds guys in marginal at best. Further, the difference between them and Geno or Petty are marginal at best.  That's the part you're not grasping.  You dont trade an entire draft and potentially your best player for an average prospect and that's what you're beating the table for.  They can stay put and possibly get Lynch at 20 or get Cook in the 2nd or Prescott in the 3rd.  That value, is literally 100x better than trading everything for a guy who's barely a better prospect and played at North Dakota St.

 

[BaumerJet]

 

You must be really excited about that future with Fitz, Geno, Petty or Hoyer at QB.  Maybe they add a decent LB and/or OL with the picks they don't trade.  The result is still mediocre.

That is not a future I am interested in anymore.  Sad that you can't see more than 5 minutes past the end of your nose.

  The Jets will win a SB when they have a star QB.  They should tank, trade up, sell the farm, etc. every 4 to 5 years until they find one.  Last time they tried was 2009, it's been long enough to have another go....

 

 

 

 

 

Problem is this year there is no one at quarterback to go after on such a high pick except for desperation.

You don't give up the keys to the kingdom for the court jester.

Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk

[Beerfish]

13 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

There's no reason to trade for the second pick in this draft. There are basically four categories of quarterback prospects. Top 1, Top ~3, Top ~16, and everybody else. The middle two categories are sort of loosely defined but you get the idea. There are bigger disparities in success vs. investment between these ranges than there are within them. This year Goff is the guy, there's no the other guy, and I don't even think there's a Cutler. It's a draft full of everybody elses. One or more of them is going to have success but I dunno how much I'm willing to bet on any of them being that much better than the others. Take somebody on the second day. Take whoever.

Well that all depends on if goff really is the guy or not?  right now there is no consensus and most evaluations seem to be split pretty close between goff and wentz.  The teams thinking of trading up have their preference so you talk with the #2 team, wait until draft day and when STL makes their pick if your guy is not picked you go up and get him and probably at a cost less than the #1 overall pick.

This year it seems to be Goff/Wentz very close.  Gap.... Lynch....Gap...guys like Cook etc.

 

[Beerfish]

8 minutes ago, BaumerJet said:

Problem is this year there is no one at quarterback to go after on such a high pick except for desperation.

You don't give up the keys to the kingdom for the court jester.

Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk

It all comes down to each teams evaluation, heck Mayock caused a stir by saying the two at the top of this draft wee as good as the two from last year.

[Beerfish]

4 hours ago, JiF said:

Yep.  No sense in mortgaging the future for sloppy seconds in a not so great year for drafting a QB.

None of these guys are elite prospects.  And the difference between them is marginal.  

Seriously, whats the difference between Wentz/Lynch and I dont know, say Cook/Prescott?  The answer is nothing even though we all want to be draftniks experts and act like there's something. 

Wut?  You blast people for making Qb evals and then you promptly make one yourself.  Let's take a little Jets scenario, if we worked mowilk into a trade up to get whoever the rams do not take and give up our 1st this year and a couple of other picks (not next years 1st) is that mortgaging your future?  If the price is way over the top you say no. if it is near your price point you should go for it.  This team has done with from awful to medium QBing for years.  Time to have some balls if the chance presents itself.

If the Jets assess the QBs as you do and think they are all about the same then of course you don;t trade up.  That is not how most people are evaling the QB's though.

 

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, JiF said:

Yep.  No sense in mortgaging the future for sloppy seconds in a not so great year for drafting a QB.

None of these guys are elite prospects.  And the difference between them is marginal.  

Seriously, whats the difference between Wentz/Lynch and I dont know, say Cook/Prescott?  The answer is nothing even though we all want to be draftniks experts and act like there's something. 

Only thing is how often do we have drafts we're the QBs are considered elite prospects?

Mariota and Winston, both had questions.  Always seems that way, outside of Luck

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Only thing is how often do we have drafts we're the QBs are considered elite prospects?

Mariota and Winston, both had questions.  Always seems that way, outside of Luck

there are very few elite prospects.  i think you have to truly believe in your coaching staff's ability to develop qbs to trade up and draft them.  and that's what was wrong with the rex era.  they were not equipped to develop sanchez or geno.  let's hope petty and whomever they get this draft are taught better.

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

Wut?  You blast people for making Qb evals and then you promptly make one yourself.  Let's take a little Jets scenario, if we worked mowilk into a trade up to get whoever the rams do not take and give up our 1st this year and a couple of other picks (not next years 1st) is that mortgaging your future?  If the price is way over the top you say no. if it is near your price point you should go for it.  This team has done with from awful to medium QBing for years.  Time to have some balls if the chance presents itself.

If the Jets assess the QBs as you do and think they are all about the same then of course you don;t trade up.  That is not how most people are evaling the QB's though.

 

Please show we me where I've blasted someone for making a QB eval or any eval on any prospect.  I'm well aware this all conjecture and I dont recall blasting anyone on anything draft related.  

I'm basing my take on what I'd consider "mortgaging the future" based off what the Rams did to move up and what the Skins had to give up to take RG3 at #2.  IMO, that's mortgaging the future.

In your scenario, no, I dont think that would be mortgaging the future.  That would be a calculated value type of move (depending on what "a couple of other picks" means). But I dont think it's going to be that cheap to move up to #2.  If it was, I think the deal would done already (if we're working off the assumption the Jets are good with taking whoever the Rams dont).

The problem I have with it is, I dont see a big difference between Wentz and Lynch or Cook or Prescott or Hogan or Petty or Geno, etc. If I thought we had a chance at Goff, I'd be all for it.  He's the only QB I like at all in this draft.  The others are going to be nothings.  

Just my take.  And I could be very wrong.  It's the draft.  Who the **** knows? 

 

 

[spawn0978]

[JustInFudge]

9 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Only thing is how often do we have drafts we're the QBs are considered elite prospects?

Mariota and Winston, both had questions.  Always seems that way, outside of Luck

Sure.  That's an issue...but that doesnt excuse trading your best player and a sh*t ton of picks for a QB just because you need one.  It's why I say you just stay put and take the best available.  Referencing @Augustiniak response to you, If you think you can develop 1 QB who has potential, why can you develop the other QB, who clearly has potential as well?  I mean, if you're confident in your ability to develop...if the difference in talent is marginal, whats the difference? 

 

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, spawn0978 said:

IMO - that's wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much and exactly what I was against the Jets doing.  

[Integrity28]

4 minutes ago, spawn0978 said:

Damn!!!!

I'm kind of glad we didn't do this...  holy sh*t.

[kelly]

good !.. we should stay at our pick 

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Damn!!!!

I'm kind of glad we didn't do this...  holy sh*t.

Exactly!!! haha

Plus, the Jets would have had to given up much more, because they draft 12 spots behind the Eagles. 

[joewilly12]

Macc FAILS 

[BowlesMovement]

5 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Macc FAILS 

Don't make me fail! Say yes to coffee with me?

[prime21]

And the Eagles can't blame Kelly for this one.

I'm not saying that these two QB's wont ne good but the money goes against them being elite.  If they had the potential elite tag next to their name then there is no way that Cleveland would make the deal.

 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

there are very few elite prospects.  i think you have to truly believe in your coaching staff's ability to develop qbs to trade up and draft them.  and that's what was wrong with the rex era.  they were not equipped to develop sanchez or geno.  let's hope petty and whomever they get this draft are taught better.

I agree with regards to elite prospects.  Hard to guage who was at fault with Sanchez and Geno.  Some of the blame has to fall with the player.  There's no way of knowing what a Sanchez would have become if he was drafted to a different CS. 

Hopefully all works out with Petty or whoever we bring in

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

Sure.  That's an issue...but that doesnt excuse trading your best player and a sh*t ton of picks for a QB just because you need one.  It's why I say you just stay put and take the best available.  Referencing @Augustiniak response to you, If you think you can develop 1 QB who has potential, why can you develop the other QB, who clearly has potential as well?  I mean, if you're confident in your ability to develop...if the difference in talent is marginal, whats the difference? 

 

True, but if while you have to think you can develop those two then why not a Lynch or holding onto your picks and taking a Hackenberg or Cook later on? 

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, JiF said:

Dude, everyone gets you need a QB.  It's biggest duh ever.  You're not stating anything profound, at all.  That doesnt mean you do illogical things to get one and mortgage the future. 

This year the problem is, there are no elite QB's in this draft.  Especially one you mortgage the future for and end up getting the 2nd option because #1 isnt even available anymore. If there were a couple of elite prospects, I'd be all for it.  But there is not. 

It's that simple.

The difference between Wentz and Cook or Prescott or Hogan or any of those mid rounds guys in marginal at best. Further, the difference between them and Geno or Petty are marginal at best.  That's the part you're not grasping.  You dont trade an entire draft and potentially your best player for an average prospect and that's what you're beating the table for.  They can stay put and possibly get Lynch at 20 or get Cook in the 2nd or Prescott in the 3rd.  That value, is literally 100x better than trading everything for a guy who's barely a better prospect and played at North Dakota St.

 

I don't think you get it. If he is drafted #1 or #2 overall, that makes him a better prospect. The higher he is drafted, the proportionately better prospect he is. I learned this on JetNation.

[Rangers9]

This could just be a lot of smoke and Mac never had any intention of trading up to 1 or 2. If so pretty sharp for a 2nd year GM. I just hope he doesn't outsmart himself with Fitz. 

[Beerfish]

7 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

This could just be a lot of smoke and Mac never had any intention of trading up to 1 or 2. If so pretty sharp for a 2nd year GM. I just hope he doesn't outsmart himself with Fitz. 

I like Fitz and I think the Jets are doing the right thing.  Not going beyond a certain price point.  If Fitz goes elsewhere or retires it will simply be becasue his asking price was too much for being a 2 year QB.  It will suck to have to go with Hoyer or god forbid Geno but our real long term starter is probably not yet on the roster.

[JustInFudge]

26 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

True, but if while you have to think you can develop those two then why not a Lynch or holding onto your picks and taking a Hackenberg or Cook later on? 

That's exactly my point.  If you're whole premise is to just "develop", then the trade would make even less sense than it already does.

22 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't think you get it. If he is drafted #1 or #2 overall, that makes him a better prospect. The higher he is drafted, the proportionately better prospect he is. I learned this on JetNation.

FACTS!!!

[joewilly12]

6 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I like Fitz and I think the Jets are doing the right thing.  Not going beyond a certain price point.  If Fitz goes elsewhere or retires it will simply be becasue his asking price was too much for being a 2 year QB.  It will suck to have to go with Hoyer or god forbid Geno but our real long term starter is probably not yet on the roster.

When do the Jets stop playing games with the QB position and finally do what it takes to draft,trade or sign a legitimate  QB instead of all the bums we've thad for the last 47 years. 

[TuscanyTile2]

This ought to make some people angry