Tom Brady's suspension re-instated (MERGED)

[Jet Fan RI]

1 minute ago, AFCEastFan said:

Leonard is a mechanical engineering professor at MIT and Philadelphia Eagles fan.  His "report" (which is really more of a lecture along with powerpoint) came out in late 2015 after the initial "junk" debunking reports.  If you stopped with those, then you missed it. 

I am not a scientist, so I am stuck relying on the opinions of other scientists informed by what I can determine about the scientist's biases, bona fides, etc.  From this perspective (and without being able to really understand the scientific details), the Leonard analysis strikes me as the definitive -- and most correct -- one.  Again, I am not a scientist so I may be completely off base. 

A reasonable position, to be sure. But personally I am burned out by what I have already done reviewing the work and I lack the enthusiasm to launch myself back into it. I guess that means your MIT guy wins the case, in your judgment. So be it. But do keep in mind the investigative team included a Princeton physicist who also found the testing lab had done good work. Potential for bias? Of course. But I do not think a Princeton professor would risk sacrificing his reputation over this kind of matter.

So now you have a case of battling bona fides.

[AzogtheDefiler]

11 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

No it wasn't.  The commissioner considered that the actions taken to circumvent the rules constituted cheating.  Changes everything. 

The weather in the Colts game was unseasonably WARM.  Follow along, not that complicated

You BAD PERSON. The weather was not all that warm either and in 2015 he supposedly used legal balls and played well. I have no idea what you are talking about. The fine was $25k now if you say he did something more then the NFL needs to be more transparent is all I am saying. Cro agreed. Personal insults are sophomoric.

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, AzogtheDefiler said:

You BAD PERSON. The weather was not all that warm either and in 2015 he supposedly used legal balls and played well. I have no idea what you are talking about. The fine was $25k now if you say he did something more then the NFL needs to be more transparent is all I am saying. Cro agreed. Personal insults are sophomoric.

there was never more scrutiny over the balls than the Seattle SB and he led his team back from 10 pts down in the 4th qtr against one of the greatest Ds of all time(one that completely humiliated Peyton and a much more talented Den O the year before) to lead NE to another SB win.  if that and his 2015 season doesn't convince people then they just aren't being fair. They cannot get over their hatred of the man(and I do understand this).

[AzogtheDefiler]

4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

there was never more scrutiny over the balls than the Seattle SB and he led his team back from 10 pts down in the 4th qtr against one of the greatest Ds of all time(one that completely humiliated Peyton and a much more talented Den O the year before) to lead NE to another SB win.  if that and his 2015 season doesn't convince people then they just aren't being fair. They cannot get over their hatred of the man(and I do understand this).

You are probably right. But why punish the Jets? Dolphins and Billlls play NE w/o Brady and the Jets do not. Goodell needs to explain himself. 

[Savage69]

4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

there was never more scrutiny over the balls than the Seattle SB and he led his team back from 10 pts down in the 4th qtr against one of the greatest Ds of all time(one that completely humiliated Peyton and a much more talented Den O the year before) to lead NE to another SB win.  if that and his 2015 season doesn't convince people then they just aren't being fair. They cannot get over their hatred of the man(and I do understand this).

While Brady did lead the Pats back it was the idiotic play call by the Seahawks that gifted that Bowl to the Pats.. Brady is one of the best ever it's a shame that the Pats have to take every rule there is over the line and act shocked when they get caught..

[Savage69]

2 minutes ago, AzogtheDefiler said:

You are probably right. But why punish the Jets? Dolphins and Billlls play NE w/o Brady and the Jets do not. Goodell needs to explain himself. 

We played the Pats without Brady in 2008 and lost to the Cassell led Pats 19-10..

[AzogtheDefiler]

3 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

While Brady did lead the Pats back it was the idiotic play call by the Seahawks that gifted that Bowl to the Pats.. Brady is one of the best ever it's a shame that the Pats have to take every rule there is over the line and act shocked when they get caught..

Ric Flair is their cheating coach. Best ever...Wooooooooooooooo!

[AzogtheDefiler]

Just now, Savage69 said:

We played the Pats without Brady in 2008 and lost to the Cassell led Pats 19-10..

That's on the O!!! O is better this yr.

[Savage69]

Just now, AzogtheDefiler said:

That's on the O!!! O is better this yr.

True we had a bad QB in 08..

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

While Brady did lead the Pats back it was the idiotic play call by the Seahawks that gifted that Bowl to the Pats.. Brady is one of the best ever it's a shame that the Pats have to take every rule there is over the line and act shocked when they get caught..

even if Seattle wins on that last play to be able to come back from 10 pts down in the SUPER BOWL against that D is flat out amazing.

BB has been bending rules since his days w/ the Giants and I suspect most, if not all, other teams try to bend rules as well.

[Savage69]

Just now, nyjunc said:

even if Seattle wins on that last play to be able to come back from 10 pts down in the SUPER BOWL against that D is flat out amazing.

BB has been bending rules since his days w/ the Giants and I suspect most, if not all, other teams try to bend rules as well.

I guess he didn't bend much as the Browns HC or his first year with the Pats?? LOL I do agree he does take things beyond legal limits when he thinks he won't get caught..

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, Savage69 said:

I guess he didn't bend much as the Browns HC or his first year with the Pats?? LOL I do agree he does take things beyond legal limits when he thinks he won't get caught..

he did, he just didn't have Brady to fall back on.  Brady is the reason why NE became a dynasty and reason BB is now considered an all time great HC.

[AzogtheDefiler]

I think Goodell just sucks. 

 

• Takes a 3rd and 5th round picks from KC for supposedly tampering with Maclin (everyone "tampers" like they did)
• Gives Ray Rice 2 games for punching and spitting on a woman and then claims he never saw the video? Really so TMZ saw it before you?
• Totally mishandles the AP case. I have a headache just thinking about it.
• Totally mishandles the Dolphins Martin/Incognito case where Pouncey and others were equally guilty but he singles out Incognito and sweeps it under the rug. 
• Completely brushes the Manning HGH scandal aside yet Denver wins the SB. I am sure the Panthers are thrilled with that decision.
• So called Bounty Gate was utterly a lie as the Saints were one of the least penalized teams and then he suspends the coach for a year and just destroys the Saints who have yet to recover.
• Mishandles the Refs and replacement refs. I am sure the Fail Mary pass will 4ever live in infamy.

 

Honestly, he is terrible.

[ghost_in_pads02]

30 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

While Brady did lead the Pats back it was the idiotic play call by the Seahawks that gifted that Bowl to the Pats.. Brady is one of the best ever it's a shame that the Pats have to take every rule there is over the line and act shocked when they get caught..

Let's not forget the play that got Seattle down at the one. talking about a gift...the ball being juggled off the seahawks receiver's foot before catching it. You know that type of play does not happen regularly. So the pats getting a "gift" was to equal out the gift Seattle got a play before. 

[PatsFanTX]

True we had a bad QB in 08..

Better than not having one like the current Jets situation.

[Mainejet]

Brady had to have known he would eventually lose this fight. Really, I think that's why he went to the courts, so he could get a stay of his punishment and have the Patsies rearrange his contract so he lost very little money. It worked like a charm because he only stands to lose about 200,000 throughout the suspension.

But from that angle, you can see it very clearly that he knew what he was doing was cheating, he actively participated in covering it up, and he made every adjustment he could to avoid losing money in the process. What more would anyone need to know that convinces he's a lying, cheating, arrogant scumbag?

[JohnnyLV]

It does not matter if Brady performed as well or better with fully inflated balls or not. Being able to play well with fully inflated balls has no relation to whether or not Brady and the Pats tried to cheat and thought it gave them an advantage and the evidence is  compelling that they did.

Also, the legal battle has NOTHING to do with whether he us guilty or not and only with whether Goodell per the CBA has the authority to act and assess the penalty he did, which he does. Very unlikely the 2nd circuit or Supreme Court revisit this

[Rangers9]

8 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Better than not having one like the current Jets situation.

Well that's what they said about Tom Brady. Right now we have 2 Qbs so where do you get that we have none. And you can only hope that we don't re-sign Fitz because with our playmakers including Forte a superior pass receiver that really fits Fitz's style we could rip your D which is only fair. Can't wait to play you guys this season. 

[thebuzzardman]

2 hours ago, AzogtheDefiler said:

Sushi delicious or Big Mac delicious?

Why both of course!

[drdetroit]

38 minutes ago, AzogtheDefiler said:

I think Goodell just sucks. 

 

• Takes a 3rd and 5th round picks from KC for supposedly tampering with Maclin (everyone "tampers" like they did)
• Gives Ray Rice 2 games for punching and spitting on a woman and then claims he never saw the video? Really so TMZ saw it before you?
• Totally mishandles the AP case. I have a headache just thinking about it.
• Totally mishandles the Dolphins Martin/Incognito case where Pouncey and others were equally guilty but he singles out Incognito and sweeps it under the rug. 
• Completely brushes the Manning HGH scandal aside yet Denver wins the SB. I am sure the Panthers are thrilled with that decision.
• So called Bounty Gate was utterly a lie as the Saints were one of the least penalized teams and then he suspends the coach for a year and just destroys the Saints who have yet to recover.
• Mishandles the Refs and replacement refs. I am sure the Fail Mary pass will 4ever live in infamy.

 

Honestly, he is terrible.

Agree he's way over his head

[nyjunc]

53 minutes ago, AzogtheDefiler said:

I think Goodell just sucks. 

 

• Takes a 3rd and 5th round picks from KC for supposedly tampering with Maclin (everyone "tampers" like they did)
• Gives Ray Rice 2 games for punching and spitting on a woman and then claims he never saw the video? Really so TMZ saw it before you?
• Totally mishandles the AP case. I have a headache just thinking about it.
• Totally mishandles the Dolphins Martin/Incognito case where Pouncey and others were equally guilty but he singles out Incognito and sweeps it under the rug. 
• Completely brushes the Manning HGH scandal aside yet Denver wins the SB. I am sure the Panthers are thrilled with that decision.
• So called Bounty Gate was utterly a lie as the Saints were one of the least penalized teams and then he suspends the coach for a year and just destroys the Saints who have yet to recover.
• Mishandles the Refs and replacement refs. I am sure the Fail Mary pass will 4ever live in infamy.

 

Honestly, he is terrible.

I thought replacement refs were better than the real refs.

[HessStation]

36 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Better than not having one like the current Jets situation.

I would totally rather have never won one than to be caught cheating in the process, to be honest. 

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, HessStation said:

I would totally rather have never won one than to be caught cheating in the process, to be honest. 

It's easy to say that w/o any titles but if we had the success of NE our fans would be doing the same thing nows their fans are doing and their fans would be doing the same things our fans are doing now.

[AzogtheDefiler]

4 minutes ago, HessStation said:

I would totally rather have never won one than to be caught cheating in the process, to be honest. 

Stop quoting Ric Flair 

[BurnleyJet]

A lot of bruised Vags in this thread. 

[jetrider]

If Brady misses the first 4 games Jets will take advantage and go 0-7.

They'll take advantage of the opportunity to kick back and snooze.

[Greensince69]

1 hour ago, AzogtheDefiler said:

I think Goodell just sucks. 

 

• Takes a 3rd and 5th round picks from KC for supposedly tampering with Maclin (everyone "tampers" like they did)
• Gives Ray Rice 2 games for punching and spitting on a woman and then claims he never saw the video? Really so TMZ saw it before you?
• Totally mishandles the AP case. I have a headache just thinking about it.
• Totally mishandles the Dolphins Martin/Incognito case where Pouncey and others were equally guilty but he singles out Incognito and sweeps it under the rug. 
• Completely brushes the Manning HGH scandal aside yet Denver wins the SB. I am sure the Panthers are thrilled with that decision.
• So called Bounty Gate was utterly a lie as the Saints were one of the least penalized teams and then he suspends the coach for a year and just destroys the Saints who have yet to recover.
• Mishandles the Refs and replacement refs. I am sure the Fail Mary pass will 4ever live in infamy.

 

Honestly, he is terrible.

Wow like Goodell and the owners give 2 poops about what you think.  Just what do you think that his job is?  It is to increase revenue and he has done that very well.  All his decisions are based on that and the reaction of sponsors (most important) and viewer blocks secondarily.  The response to the ray rice, AP and Martin case  were directly proportional to the amount of nasty PC reaction mostly spurred on by the espn press.  We are talking about Gays, womens groups and parenting groups boycotting and protesting and espn splashing it all over the place.  Not good for business and the owners gave direction to take a heavier hand.  Was it for noble reasons, no it was for dollars and cents. 

Please tell me who the nfl has really pounded  for steroids and HGH.  It is like weed, be smart enough not to do it before you get tested for the season and you can do what you want during the season.  If you are stupid enough to get caught and embarrass people, you deserve what you get.  Yes I include Sheldon in that category. 

Bounty gate was not a lie and the commissioners office sent letters and the team choose to ignore it.  Again do not be stupid enough to get caught.

KC knew the rules like all teams.  Some get caught and fined.  Jets have, Pats have, just be smart and circumspect and you do not have a problem.

Bottom line is Goodell has increased revenue every year since he took over increasing the owners cut of league revenues to about 250 million a year per team.  That also increases the players revenue as seen in the increase in salary cap.  This makes his bosses happy and truth be told players happy as thier piece of the pie gets bigger.  His horrible decisions have effected 18 players since he has taken over.  I think you need another dead horse to beat.    

 

[Larz]

a little birdie took away all the past* bragging rights

 

Then Specter turned to the alleged videotaping of the Rams' walk-through. Walsh confessed that after the Patriots' team picture, he and at least three other team videographers lingered around the Louisiana Superdome, setting up cameras for the game. Suddenly, the Rams arrived and started their walk-through. The three videographers, in full Patriots apparel, hung around, on the field and in the stands, for 30 minutes. Nobody said anything. Walsh said he observed star Rams running back Marshall Faulk line up in an unusual position: as a kickoff returner. That night, Walsh reported what he had seen to Patriots assistant coach Brian Daboll, who asked an array of questions about the Rams' formations. Walsh said that Daboll, who declined through the Patriots to comment for this story, drew a series of diagrams -- an account Daboll later denied to league investigators.

Faulk had returned only one kickoff in his career before the Super Bowl. Sure enough, in the second quarter, he lined up deep. The Patriots were ready: Vinatieri kicked it into a corner, leading Faulk out of bounds after gaining 1 yard.

During the walk-through, the Rams had also practiced some of their newly designed red zone plays. When they ran the same plays late in the Super Bowl's fourth quarter, the Patriots' defense was in position on nearly every down. On one new play, quarterback Kurt Warner rolled to his right and turned to throw to Faulk in the flat, where three Patriots defenders were waiting. On the sideline, Rams coach Mike Martz was stunned. He was famous for his imaginative, unpredictable plays, and now it was as if the Patriots knew what was coming on plays that had never been run before. The Patriots' game plan had called for a defender to hit Faulk on every down, as a means of eliminating him, but one coach who worked with an assistant on that 2001 Patriots team says that the ex-Pats assistant coach once bragged that New England knew exactly what the Rams would call in the red zone. "He'd say, 'A little birdie told us,'" the coach says now.

[Maxman]

1 hour ago, BurnleyJet said:

A lot of bruised Vags in this thread. 

Yeah I hope @PatsFanTX doesn't get his panties in a bunch. Wait hate for it to end this way, LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mainejet]

3 hours ago, Savage69 said:

We played the Pats without Brady in 2008 and lost to the Cassell led Pats 19-10..

And beat the Cassell led Pats 34-31 later in the season.......

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, Mainejet said:

And beat the Cassell led Pats 34-31 later in the season.......

and finished 2 games behind the Cassell led Pats and the Pennington led dolphins.

[AFCEastFan]

2 hours ago, Jet Fan RI said:

A reasonable position, to be sure. But personally I am burned out by what I have already done reviewing the work and I lack the enthusiasm to launch myself back into it. I guess that means your MIT guy wins the case, in your judgment. So be it. But do keep in mind the investigative team included a Princeton physicist who also found the testing lab had done good work. Potential for bias? Of course. But I do not think a Princeton professor would risk sacrificing his reputation over this kind of matter.

So now you have a case of battling bona fides.

It is too bad (for me) that the Leonard analysis came out as late in the process as it did, as I would be interested in your take.

In any event, it's not just a Princeton vs. MIT thing for me, it is that even secondary reports of the Leonard study (such as the below NYT article) treat it as definitive.  Again, without being able to fully understand the science, I am unable to compare the analyses directly.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/01/23/sports/football/nfl-ignores-ball-deflation-science-at-new-england-patriots-expense.html?referer=

 

[Larz]

3 hours ago, AzogtheDefiler said:

By control I mean testing at other games, events, etc. This is pointless. 

lets play matching game.  I will give you two sets of numbers from the report.  your job is to match one column with one scenario.  This will illuminate for you the fact that the science is irrelevant, and its obvious what happened when you take everything into condsideration, including the texts that point out rewards in the form of sneakers were expected by the employee who was referred to as "the deflator"

McNally: Nice dude....jimmy needs some kicks....lets make a deal.....come on help the deflator

all you have to do is reply with the scenario # and the corresponding letter from the sets of numbers. 

scenario 1)  - balls that were professionally prepared within the rules

scenario 2)  - balls that were initially prepared professionally within the rules, then hastily deflated with a needle in a locked bathroom on the way out to the field (its all in the report, don't make me post it)

set A)  a high of 12.3 and a low of 10.5

1  11.50  11.80

2 10.85  11.20

3  11.15  11.50

4  10.70  11.00

5  11.10  11.45

6  11.60  11.95

7  11.85  12.30

8  11.10  11.55

9  10.95  11.35

10  10.50  10.90

11  10.90  11.35

 

set  B  ) a high of 12.95 and a low of 12.15

1  12.70  12.35

2  12.75  12.30

3  12.50  12.95

4  12.55  12.15

 

 

 

[PatsFanTX]

Well that's what they said about Tom Brady. Right now we have 2 Qbs so where do you get that we have none. And you can only hope that we don't re-sign Fitz because with our playmakers including Forte a superior pass receiver that really fits Fitz's style we could rip your D which is only fair. Can't wait to play you guys this season. 

Two NFL QB's on the roster?????

Geno sucks donkey dung and Petty has never thrown an NFL pass in the regular season. So yea, the Jets do not have a NFL QB right now.

Every Pats fan out there want the Jets to resign noodle arm Fitz. Make it happen Mac!!!!!!

[PatsFanTX]

It's easy to say that w/o any titles but if we had the success of NE our fans would be doing the same thing nows their fans are doing and their fans would be doing the same things our fans are doing now.

Somebody gets it.