For Those Still Crying About Lee

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

I don't hate the pick, I am just not a fan of drafting for need.  I like drafting best available, was he the best available?

Well Jack was the most talented but the injury is scaring the sh*t out of teams

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, section314 said:

Fair points.You know I liked Su'a Cravens too. I actually thought we might pick William Jackson. I would love to ask MaC if Ryan Kelly had been there if he would have taken him? Tonight will be interesting....lots of good players left. Feel terrible for Jack.

Yep.  And Cravens in the 2nd >>>> Lee in the 1st.  

 

[Obrien2Toon]

1 hour ago, 68JET11 said:

It's not hate. When this franchise hasn't had a quarterback since Namath, whom I have seen play and win the Superbowl, you can't pass up what many are predicting as the next or even better Rothlesberger. I get the fact he has to sit, and also get the fact we need speed linebackers. Those can come in next years draft. Even with Lee and the rest of who they pick, I believe 2016 is a regression year due to the schedule. You can't pass on a guy who has the (here's the word) potential to be the franchise QB for the next 12 years. 

Many are predicting to be next or better Roethlisburger!!????

ive watched and read a lot of draft coverage.  More than I would ever admit to my wife.

And I've never heard that, maybe you have him mixed up with Wentz

[Butterfield]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I don't hate the pick, I am just not a fan of drafting for need.  I like drafting best available, was he the best available?

He was rated between 10 and 20 by most "experts" so he probably was.

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Who though? What other talent?

Treadwell or Docston come to mind as Marshall isn't going to be around forever.

[Klecko73isGod]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

Yep.  And Cravens in the 2nd >>>> Lee in the 1st.  

 

I get what you are saying from a value perspective but isn't it possible that based on Bowles schemes the Jets had Lee as the best completely healthy player on their board there?

 

 

[ZachEY]

9 minutes ago, section314 said:

Fair points.You know I liked Su'a Cravens too. I actually thought we might pick William Jackson. I would love to ask MaC if Ryan Kelly had been there if he would have taken him? Tonight will be interesting....lots of good players left. Feel terrible for Jack.

I wonder at what point Jack hopes he really free falls?  Apparently he has an insurance policy that kicks in at the 45th pick, for 60K per pick up to 5M.

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, UnitedWhofans said:

The smallish linebacker is the new way linebackers are built in this NFL. Macc said last night that he knows that he needs to gain a bit of weight. So I just dont know why people hate this so much

generally it's ok, but I just watched the game he played against Michigan State and although he is as fast as can be, he does get pushed around a bit by big linemen and there were several broken tackles and some missed.  He's no thumper, that's for sure. I would have been happier with any of the next 3 picks, but I'm ok with it.

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, gEYno said:

Treadwell or Docston come to mind as Marshall isn't going to be around forever.

Fair but hey don't bring an immediate impact, As I said, whoever would be the WR would be 3rd or 4th on the depth chart

[nycdan]

So Walter of walterfootball.com generally trounces the Jets every chance he gets.  A known hater.  Yet he had this to say about the pick:

 

image: http://walterfootball.com/images/fball/jetsb_logo.gif

New York Jets: Darron Lee, LB, Ohio State A Grade
The Jets picked Leonard Williams last year, proving that they'll draft the best player available, even if they don't have a need at the position. This year, the Jets have selected perhaps the best player available - and one who actually fills a need. The Jets have had a hole at inside linebacker for a very long time. Darron Lee, who could've gone as high as No. 14, figures to change that. Lee is very athletic and has a ton of upside. He projects as a great fit in Todd Bowles' defense.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftgrades1.php#TZ1wTPckQGwxqc0M.99

 

Just a quote from yet another internet self-proclaimed pundit, but it at least puts a different spin on the pick than many here are seeing.

 

 

[ZachEY]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Fair but hey don't bring an immediate impact, As I said, whoever would be the WR would be 3rd or 4th on the depth chart

We just learned that we're drafted an undersized LB to play nickel and back up Erin Henderson and you're talking about a potentially 3rd receiver as a negative?

[Pcola]

2 hours ago, KRL said:

Know Bowles history.  Back in 2014 ARZ lost multiple front seven players
at the start of the season (Abraham, Dockett & Washington) but he had
an overabundance of secondary talent.  So to cover up for that deficiency
Bowles converted Deone Bucannon to a "speed LB" to attack the multiple
spread offenses opponents were running:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/16723/deone-bucannon

That team went through 4 QB's (Palmer, Stanton, Lindley & Thomas) and still
won 11 games because of Bowles scheme.  After years of having "elephants"
at the LB position we are finally addressing the problem.  In addition
during Lee's rookie year he'll help us tremendously in special teams  

AZ went to the playoffs one time during Bowles tenure and the lost soundly in the first round.  Teams need to have some semblance of balance.  We have 7 first rounders on defense and our offense has aging skill position players, no QB, and no OL.  

I don't care how great your defense is, you can't win games with that type of roster.  We have so many young players on D to build upon yet the only players in our pipeline on offense are Bryce Petty and Devin Smith.  When Marshall stops being Marshall, this team's gonna have a multi year rebuild on offense.  During which time all these 1st rounders on D are gonna want to get paid.  

[Augustiniak]

he was the 11th ranked player on cbssports.com.  mccags sticks to his draft rankings.

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, KRL said:

And for the "size police" here are some measurables:

Jonathan Vilma (NYJ/NO) 6-1 230

Luke Kuechly (CAR) 6-3 235

Thomas Davis (CAR) 6-1 235

all of the above thrive(d) in a 4-3.  I'm ok with moving to a 4-3 if that's what works best.

[Butterfield]

1 minute ago, Dcat said:

all of the above thrive(d) in a 4-3.  I'm ok with moving to a 4-3 if that's what works best.

Look up moneybacker.  If anything, he is big for the position.

[bostonmajet]

I really think for this FO, it is about BPA; last year Williams fell in our lap, this year we apparently tried to trade up to get an OT; the luck (or unluck) of the draw - this year deep with defense and picking #20 means defense at BPA; if Macc was here instead of Idzik the previous year, I would imagine Calvin Pryor would not have been picked, but likely a WR.  Still sucks, though - I wish they like Lynch more, it would have been nice to have a future starting QB, but what can you do?

[Greenseed4]

$LB

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

I really think for this FO, it is about BPA; last year Williams fell in our lap, this year we apparently tried to trade up to get an OT; the luck (or unluck) of the draw - this year deep with defense and picking #20 means defense at BPA; if Macc was here instead of Idzik the previous year, I would imagine Calvin Pryor would not have been picked, but likely a WR.  Still sucks, though - I wish they like Lynch more, it would have been nice to have a future starting QB, but what can you do?

You might see Hack or Cook next round.  Not the same as Lynch but at least another prospect you can be hopeful about.  Also, no guarantee even Lynch is a future starting QB. 

[JohnnyLV]

25 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Look at the alternatives. A QB who needs to sit for a year and a WR who will be 3rd or 4th on the depth chart. Neither one will get as much playing time as Lee this year

Who cares? We need to stop drafting for now, and build a team for the next 10 years. No way around it, this was a bad pick by the Jets and just demonstrates that while the names have changed we are still a team that just does not get it from a big picture point of view.

[Warfish]

The only crying I've read thus far is from the over-strident defenders of the pick being angry, to the point of near-hysteria, that anyone would question or analyze the pick in any way that deviates from "OMG AMAZING!!!".  There was one post in particular, forget who it was, in the Draft Day 1 thread that sounded like the poster was near tears IRL while writing it, it was so seething with furious indignation that someone somewhere said Lee was "small".

We all knew Bowles & Macc wanted and needed a LB.  A LB pick at #20 is not exactly rocket science given how the draft played out, and the only real objections are A. if you preferred the other (injury issue) guy who fell out of the 1st or B. You think small fast weak vs. run Linebackers are a short-term fad, not a long term NFL reality.

The pick makes sense from pre-draft talent evaluations, was not a reach based on fan-made and media-made mocks, and was a clear "Need" pick that didn't deviate too far from BAP.   While the player has issues of concern (size, durability in NFL at that size, ability vs. the run, ability to cover huge NFL TE's regularly), there are reasonable counter-arguments to most of them, and we (the Fanbase) will simply have to wait and see on this kid.  

 

[JustInFudge]

21 minutes ago, Klecko73isGod said:

I get what you are saying from a value perspective but isn't it possible that based on Bowles schemes the Jets had Lee as the best completely healthy player on their board there?

 

 

Very possible he was the BAP on their board.  He's one of the best athletes in the entire draft. 

 

[ChuckkieB]

I liked the pick, but would have liked Lynch a lot more.  For a team that hasn't had a franchise QB in forever, I don't understand how the most important position on the field isn't priority #1. Maybe they didn't like Lynch.  Who knows.  I'm hoping the Jets like another QB (Cook, Hackenberg) enough to draft one in the 2nd round, and if they do, I'll be fine with that.

[Xtina]

2 hours ago, KRL said:

Know Bowles history.  Back in 2014 ARZ lost multiple front seven players
at the start of the season (Abraham, Dockett & Washington) but he had
an overabundance of secondary talent.  So to cover up for that deficiency
Bowles converted Deone Bucannon to a "speed LB" to attack the multiple
spread offenses opponents were running:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/16723/deone-bucannon

That team went through 4 QB's (Palmer, Stanton, Lindley & Thomas) and still
won 11 games because of Bowles scheme.  After years of having "elephants"
at the LB position we are finally addressing the problem.  In addition
during Lee's rookie year he'll help us tremendously in special teams  

Lack of DL to make up for with secondary is not one of our problems 

[jdeacon]

9 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

I liked the pick, but would have liked Lynch a lot more.  For a team that hasn't had a franchise QB in forever, I don't understand how the most important position on the field isn't priority #1. Maybe they didn't like Lynch.  Who knows.  I'm hoping the Jets like another QB (Cook, Hackenberg) enough to draft one in the 2nd round, and if they do, I'll be fine with that.

I read earlier today that Lynch was never a real interest to them and they had him slated as a 3rd or 4th round pick. Who knows if its true or not but it was interesting to read.

[ZachEY]

20 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The only crying I've read thus far is from the over-strident defenders of the pick being angry, to the point of near-hysteria, that anyone would question or analyze the pick in any way that deviates from "OMG AMAZING!!!".  There was one post in particular, forget who it was, in the Draft Day 1 thread that sounded like the poster was near tears IRL while writing it, it was so seething with furious indignation that someone somewhere said Lee was "small".

We all knew Bowles & Macc wanted and needed a LB.  A LB pick at #20 is not exactly rocket science given how the draft played out, and the only real objections are A. if you preferred the other (injury issue) guy who fell out of the 1st or B. You think small fast weak vs. run Linebackers are a short-term fad, not a long term NFL reality.

The pick makes sense from pre-draft talent evaluations, was not a reach based on fan-made and media-made mocks, and was a clear "Need" pick that didn't deviate too far from BAP.   While the player has issues of concern (size, durability in NFL at that size, ability vs. the run, ability to cover huge NFL TE's regularly), there are reasonable counter-arguments to most of them, and we (the Fanbase) will simply have to wait and see on this kid.  

 

While his size is a reasonable concern, I do love the, ZOMG HE WONT BE ABLE TO COVER GRONK, angle.  Who exactly are the players who cover Gronk?  From what I've seen, it's no one.

[ZachEY]

21 minutes ago, JiF said:

Very possible he was the BAP on their board.  He's one of the best athletes in the entire draft. 

 

Which is why I don't really have much of a reaction to this pick.  I simply don't know.

I think people are understating the importance of someone who is able to cover RBs out of the backfield, and run with the TEs not named Gronkowski.  Speed is the greatest flaw on our defense.  Maybe we should have gone in another direction, maybe there was better value to be had, but I don't think like others do, that we didn't get a pretty good player at 20.  The "experts" seem to agree as I've only seen "A" grades.

[Villain The Foe]

2 hours ago, HessStation said:

 

Luke Kuechly 6'3 235

 

 

Wow, I didnt know that. Kuechly is built like a truck. I wouldnt have guessed 235. 

[afosomf]

If shazier is valid compare, he has missed 12-13 games in 2 yrs

[PepPep]

At first, I too was a bit disappointed with the pick. Simply b/c of the talent that was still on the board: M.Jack, Robinson, Reed, Treadwell, Lynch, Spence, etc. etc. Other than the top OTs going early, this draft really went our way. Lynch was still on the board, the top WR, and a number of LBs and Pass Rushers. 

But I have faith in Bowles and Mac. Especially given the fact that there was still a lot of great talent on the board. They obviously had Lee above all those guys and simply went with BPA who also fits a need and is a scheme fit in Bowles system. The pick makes perfect sense. and its not really a reach b/c this guy is an elite athlete with great college production at an elite football school.   

There is risk with Lee. He has speed, athleticism and good field awareness. He's probably one of the better athletes in the draft. But he DOES need to get stronger. Its not so much about his with but the fact that too often he gets manhandled by O-linemen on running plays. He needs to play in space vs the run on be subbed out. I also think he will have difficulty shedding blocks in pass rush situations if he doesn't get through cleanly. Again, strength. Can he overcome that? Sure. 

The reason he is so unique is his versatility. He can drop back into coverage, he can shoot the gap, he can be sent on a blitz, he can roam as a spy. There's a ton of things you can do with this kid. He's a jack of all trades and has the speed, athleticism and awareness to excel in all aspects. But again, I think he needs to get stranger, and he needs to simply get better at pretty much every aspect of the game- coverage, playing vs. the run, pass rush, etc. The potential is there, the right coach is there, I think this was another gutsy pick by Mac that could end up bringing the Jets a player that terrorizes offenses with his versatility, speed and athleticism. Indeed, this is the future of the LB position. Guys that can fly all over the field, cover, blitz, put big hits on RBs and fall back in zone.           

[Beerfish]

8 minutes ago, gEYno said:

While his size is a reasonable concern, I do love the, ZOMG HE WONT BE ABLE TO COVER GRONK, angle.  Who exactly are the players who cover Gronk?  From what I've seen, it's no one.

And that is the issue with all of this 'cover linebacker' bullsh*t.  LB's can't cover anyone,. the 1st through 101st thing out of every announcers mouth is that any lb vs any back or Te is a mismatch that the offense will take all day.  The thing with Lee is he is not like Deone Bucnahcn who was a safety converted to a lb will the accompanying skill set.

And the biggest issue as it always is in the draft is who was on the board when the pick was made?  It will be fun to see how the following players are doing two years from now.  Lynch, Doctson, Treadwell and Lee.  If by god we passed on a viable starting NFL qb for a small coverage lb .....

[JustInFudge]

10 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Which is why I don't really have much of a reaction to this pick.  I simply don't know.

I think people are understating the importance of someone who is able to cover RBs out of the backfield, and run with the TEs not named Gronkowski.  Speed is the greatest flaw on our defense.  Maybe we should have gone in another direction, maybe there was better value to be had, but I don't think like others do, that we didn't get a pretty good player at 20.  The "experts" seem to agree as I've only seen "A" grades.

Like I said earlier, what he brings to the table is extremely valuable in today's game.  It's just as I said, I think we could have got a very comparable player in the 2nd/3rd round.

Could be totally wrong though.  He could be head and shoulders above them.  Like I said, he's one of the best athletes in the draft.

I just think of teams with this type of sideline to sideline/coverage smaller framed tweeners and see where they took them and it just makes me wonder why?  I kinow everyone points to Buchannon and Barron but they were drafted to play safety and moved out of necessity and it happened to work out.

I think of guys like Bobby Wagner, Daryl Washington, Lavonte David who were taken in the 2nd.  Navaro Bowman in the 3rd. Telvin Smith taken in the 5th. Danny Trevathan in the 6th. 

Seems like that makes a lot more sense...and I think there are similar players to be had in these up coming rounds.

 

[bostonmajet]

43 minutes ago, nycdan said:

You might see Hack or Cook next round.  Not the same as Lynch but at least another prospect you can be hopeful about.  Also, no guarantee even Lynch is a future starting QB. 

Yeah; Lynch may not be that good or not right for the Jets, I was hoping that he would be our future - fans can hope, I am glad the FO goes by more than that

[BigRy56]

2 hours ago, KRL said:

And for the "size police" here are some measurables:

Jonathan Vilma (NYJ/NO) 6-1 230

Luke Kuechly (CAR) 6-3 235

Thomas Davis (CAR) 6-1 235

Thank you! And Darron Lee is 20 years old! The guys is going to fill out in a hurry once he gets into and NFL strength and conditioning program. He can easily be 240-245 by week 1.

[nyjbuddy]

Don't get me wrong, I like this pick and I think Bowles will fit him into this offense just fine.  But Bowles was not responsible for Deone Bucannon's breakout.  Bucannon was drafted as a strong safety and played their his rookie year under Bowles.  Last year, after Sean Weatherspoon went down with an injury, Arizona moved him to the moneybacker spot from 2nd string strong safety.

Even though Bowles isn't directly responsible for Bucannon's success, the Jets drafting Lee to fulfill that role shows that they are paying attention to what the rest of the league is doing and adjusting to the "new" nfl.  

[Bleedin Green]

While I'm certainly very unsure about this pick and more in wait and see mode, considering this obviously wasn't a particularly exciting pick to most, it certainly didn't fall on the "DO NOT WANT list" either.  It certainly fills a position of need without doubt, but of course the question of many is if there could have been other needs (as there are many) addressed with greater talent.  I will say though, the one thing I didn't get is the uproar of a bunch when Bowles dared to describe Lee as a backup at this point.  It was minutes after the pick and quite frankly, is exactly what should have been done.  Do we all forget what a giant dipsh*t we thought Rex was for crowning a guy as a starter (if not a HOF) before he even played a snap?  No matter what the team thinks of Lee, he should absolutely have to go out there and earn his spot.  While it'll obviously take a couple of years to really know how good this pick turned out overall, even the backup concept is one we'll have no real idea about until at least August.