Grade the Pick: Darron Lee

[Saul Goodman]

14 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

You realize Bobby Wagner and LaVonte David are first-team all pro LBs, right?  You also realize they're the same size as Lee, right?

I think that their playing weights are significantly more than 230lbs (same with Bowman and Willis). Hope Lee can add some lean body mass, quick

[detectivekimble]

Just now, Saul Goodman said:

I think that their playing weights are significantly more than 230lbs (same with Bowman and Willis). Hope Lee can add some lean body mass, quick

Proof?  Or are you just changing the facts to support your argument?

They were the same size coming out of college.  That's a fact.

Lee is also significantly faster than both of those guys.

[Dcat]

15 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

I think that their playing weights are significantly more than 230lbs (same with Bowman and Willis). Hope Lee can add some lean body mass, quick

Lee is 6'1", 232. Lets compare to the others when they were drafted:

Wagner, who is an inch shorter than Lee, was drafted at 233 lbs. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/bobby-wagner?id=2532966

David, who is the same exact height as Lee, was drafted at 233 lbs. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/lavonte-david?id=2532828

Bowman, who is an inch shorter than Lee, was drafted at 242 lbs. http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/navorro-bowman?id=496901

Willis, who is the same height as Lee, was drafted at 242 lbs. http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/combine/_/id/11281/patrick-willis

He needs at least 10 lbs to reach a better playing weight, but he's 21 years old. 

 

[cant wait]

4 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Lee is 6'1", 232. Lets compare to the others when they were drafted:

Wagner, who is an inch shorter than Lee, was drafted at 233 lbs. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/bobby-wagner?id=2532966

David, who is the same exact height as Lee, was drafted at 233 lbs. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/lavonte-david?id=2532828

Bowman, who is an inch shorter than Lee, was drafted at 242 lbs. http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/navorro-bowman?id=496901

Willis, who is the same height as Lee, was drafted at 242 lbs. http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/combine/_/id/11281/patrick-willis

He needs at least 10 lbs, but he's 21 years old. 

 

Here's Lee vs shazier 

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=127564&draftyear=2016&genpos=OLB

 

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=119571&draftyear=2014&genpos=OLB

 

[Dcat]

Just now, cant wait said:

Here's Lee vs shazier 

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=127564&draftyear=2016&genpos=OLB

 

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=119571&draftyear=2014&genpos=OLB

 

So shazier is the same height and was drafted at 237, only 5 lbs more than Lee.

People need to chill with the "smurf" stuff.  That's why he went 20 instead of top 10 I guess. 

[PepPep]

21 minutes ago, Dcat said:

So shazier is the same height and was drafted at 237, only 5 lbs more than Lee.

People need to chill with the "smurf" stuff.  That's why he went 20 instead of top 10 I guess. 

I mean, the other thing is that Shazier and Lee are different types of players. Lee is leaner. He's nowhere near the musclehead that Shazier is. But Lee looks to be more athletic, looks more natural in coverage, he probably has potential to be a much more versatile player. But he's also not as good against the run, doesn't hit as hard. I just think the two are different enough where comparing them doesn't really make sense. Deone Bucannon is probably a better comparison.  

 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

16 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Maybe this is why the NY Jets have not had a competent staring Qb for ever.  We will have to agree to disagree about Lee, I don't think he is good value at 20 at all.

Fair enough, although I'm not sure why you see Lee as poor value at #20.

[Maxman]

I gave the pick an A+ only because A++ isn't an option. 

When it is all said and done people will not be talking about how Lawrence Taylor changed the linebacker position anymore. They will talk about how Darron Lee changed the linebacker position. Combo safety \ linebacker.

Welcome to the future. It is filled with safebackers.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

1 hour ago, HighPitch said:

Im talking about last night.

Wentz is a qb, that's different hes also the #1 pick.

Do you think tonsil will back up anyone? Will hargaeves be a backup?

The Jets defense is good enough that they can afford to allow Lee development time and selected roles in his first year. Not all teams are so fortunate. That doesn't prove anything about a rookie player. It says something about the team.

[cant wait]

13 minutes ago, PepPep said:

I mean, the other thing is that Shazier and Lee are different types of players. Lee is leaner. He's nowhere near the musclehead that Shazier is. But Lee looks to be more athletic, looks more natural in coverage, he probably has potential to be a much more versatile player. But he's also not as good against the run, doesn't hit as hard. I just think the two are different enough where comparing them doesn't really make sense. Deone Bucannon is probably a better comparison.  

 

They look almost identical in these pictures, buccanon is closer to 210 although he might have put on weight since he was drafted

[greenwave81]

2 hours ago, Saul Goodman said:

He's way too small to ever be a great linebacker. Goddell looked bigger when he congratulated Lee on stage. 6' 230lbs. He's gonna get rag dolled out there. 

 I think Bowles is trying to find his NY equivalent for Arizona's Deone Buchannon...the $ILB.

http://www.foxsports.com/arizona/story/deone-bucannon-shining-as-cardinals-linebacker-102215

 

[bealeb319]

If you believe Bowles knows what he's doing and understands how to challenge spread offenses, you give it an A. If you think Paxton Lynch is the future, you give it a C.

I will give it a b- I think they settled for Lee after failing to move up for the guy they really wanted who I think was Lawson.

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[flgreen]

Temporary B+

Need to see him play at least 8 games after he learns system.

Bowles said they had him targeted all along, and he loves his weight at 232.

I'll go with that B+  until I see him getting pancaked on a regular basis

 

 

[SweetLee83]

A. I liked him a lot, if Lawson wasn't there, I would have wanted Lee for sure. He's gonna be real good. 

[Il Mostro]

I was initially blindsided by the pick.  But after watching Darron's full press conference, all I can say is "wow".  What an articulate, football savvy young man.  I am really rooting for him.

[DMaynard]

I love the pick. I don't care if he only plays on passing situations. The Jets can stop the run without him. They can't rush the passer. He looks like he can.

[The Troll]

Initially, C. Whatever. Didn't love it.

After drafting Hackenberg? F. If this is the route we were going to go, a QB that needs to sit for a year, Lynch should have been the pick at 20.

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[BklynJetsFan85]

b+

[Nick Blitz]

A+ 

A fast LB who can cover and rush the passer, covers 2 weaknesses of our D right there. People say 'undersized' but this is what the position is evolving into.

[jamesr]

Just had a look - the guy that played ILB last season, DeMario Davis, was 6'2", 239lbs. Was he undersized? All I recall was criticism of him being S-L-O-W. 

[Tinstar]

On ‎4‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 3:52 AM, The Troll said:

Initially, C. Whatever. Didn't love it.

After drafting Hackenberg? F. If this is the route we were going to go, a QB that needs to sit for a year, Lynch should have been the pick at 20.

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Problem is Lynch needs to sit for 3 years .  Our GM went to the workouts of both these QB, watched game tape of both these young men and interviewed both these young men . That same GM came to an informed decision made with information none of us have yet he's the moron .  

[The Troll]

Problem is Lynch needs to sit for 3 years .  Our GM went to the workouts of both these QB, watched game tape of both these young men and interviewed both these young men . That same GM came to an informed decision made with information none of us have yet he's the moron .  

I would trust Denver's GM over ours.

[Tinstar]

3 minutes ago, The Troll said:

I would trust Denver's GM over ours.

Your prerogative . I am a Jet fan, and all I care about is the Jets as far as football is concern . IMHO, the Jets had some areas of concern heading into the draft.

QB, ILB, OLB, OT and punter  since we didn't have 1 on the team .

We added youth, speed and athleticism at ILB . We added a QB with special skills who just needs to be reprogram . We added an OLB with youth, strength and power to handle the edge of our defense and still offer pass rush ability. We added 2 punters and we didn't  over draft any of em . We used our 6th round pick to get Fitzpatrick last year and he gave us a nice season which is way more than we could have expected from any player drafted in the 6th round this year. We should be a proud franchise fan base today, but I guess we prefer to be miserable, and that's probably why most of us always are  when it comes to the Jets .

If this misery extends to areas in your life outside the Jets, then I think a renewing of the mind set should be a consideration . 

[Mainejet]

That pick is beyond bad. That is going to set this organization and this defense especially back years. Darron Lee is just another Jonathan Vilma. Vilma was completely USELESS in Mangini's 3-4 defense. I can't see Lee be anything different from USELESS in Bowles defense. I gave it an F-. This was like flushing your best pick right down the drain.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

1 hour ago, Mainejet said:

That pick is beyond bad. That is going to set this organization and this defense especially back years. Darron Lee is just another Jonathan Vilma. Vilma was completely USELESS in Mangini's 3-4 defense. I can't see Lee be anything different from USELESS in Bowles defense. I gave it an F-. This was like flushing your best pick right down the drain.

So you're saying Bowles picked the completely wrong guy for Bowles' defense. I guess he should have consulted Rex Ryan first. Sorry, but this is completely asinine. You're better than this nonsense.

[Fed Hill Jet]

Didn't go through all the posts here, but Darron Lee in my mind is a solid football player mentally and exceptional physical skills.  I think I heard Mac say that you really just cant afford to miss with your first round picks and I believe this draft demonstrated his philosophy.  Mac could have reached for so many players in the first round: Lynch, Spence, Jack, J Smith.  We will see how these guys do, but I really think Mac stuck to his philosophy and went with a high percent probability of success of being a long term player, plus significant upside here.  Very happy with both LB's this week

 

The later rounds, (Hackenburg) are for rolling the dice.  I am pretty excited we have young linebackers again, something we haven't had for along time!

[MetsJets1962]

Can he step on the field before we grade him ?

I think the guy means grade the pick. Clearly we can't grade the player till we see him play, is that not the whole point of the draft? Your buying into potential.

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[Savage69]

7 minutes ago, MetsJets1962 said:

I think the guy means grade the pick. Clearly we can't grade the player till we see him play, is that not the whole point of the draft? Your buying into potential.

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Not necessarily true since the top form of exercise at JN is jumping to conclusions.. 

[drdetroit]

3 hours ago, Tinstar said:

Problem is Lynch needs to sit for 3 years .  Our GM went to the workouts of both these QB, watched game tape of both these young men and interviewed both these young men . That same GM came to an informed decision made with information none of us have yet he's the moron .  

Problem is lynch sucks

[drdetroit]

2 hours ago, Mainejet said:

That pick is beyond bad. That is going to set this organization and this defense especially back years. Darron Lee is just another Jonathan Vilma. Vilma was completely USELESS in Mangini's 3-4 defense. I can't see Lee be anything different from USELESS in Bowles defense. I gave it an F-. This was like flushing your best pick right down the drain.

Mark Barron and Luke Kuechly say hello

[drdetroit]

31 minutes ago, MetsJets1962 said:

I think the guy means grade the pick. Clearly we can't grade the player till we see him play, is that not the whole point of the draft? Your buying into potential.

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The Lb position has changed the last couple years significantly.  Cover skills are more important than run stopping because the rules favor passing and everyone is throwing constantly with 4 and 5 wide sets.

 

Lb's today have to constantly fall back in coverage.  That is Lee's specialty.

[drdetroit]

3 hours ago, The Troll said:

I would trust Denver's GM over ours.

Elway doesn't need even a good qb.  We do.  Our defense is not as good as theirs.

 

Lynch is a poor man's Kaepernick that won't cost $12 million next season.  Just because it may be the right move for Denver doesn't mean it's the right move for us

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

3 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

The Lb position has changed the last couple years significantly.  Cover skills are more important than run stopping because the rules favor passing and everyone is throwing constantly with 4 and 5 wide sets.

 

Lb's today have to constantly fall back in coverage.  That is Lee's specialty.

Exactly, how many screen plays did the Jets defense get burned on last year? Lee should make an immediate impact, plus he has an eye for the ball, pairing him with Pryor in the middle should be fun to watch for years, and if Taiwan Jones takes the next step they are set up for a while...

[bostonmajet]

3 hours ago, The Troll said:

I would trust Denver's GM over ours.

The question isn't necessarily which GM is correct, but would Lynch be a good fit for NY or not; maybe both GMs are correct, but our GM felt that Lynch wouldn't be a good fit for our offense, or more likely didn't have the maturity to avoid the big lights or deal with the harsh criticism of the NY media. Or, having a first class team already, he felt he could gamble on a first round QB more than a guy building a team with a ton of holes including old/slow LBs.

Of course, it could just be the more experienced GM saw something in Lynch; one thing is for sure; with Elway's history and the Broncos just winning the SB, Elway has a better chance to survive a 1st round QB failure

[32EBoozer]

 

3 hours ago, Mainejet said:

That pick is beyond bad. That is going to set this organization and this defense especially back years. Darron Lee is just another Jonathan Vilma. Vilma was completely USELESS in Mangini's 3-4 defense. I can't see Lee be anything different from USELESS in Bowles defense. I gave it an F-. This was like flushing your best pick right down the drain.

 Mangini became coach after Vilma had some success. Vilma wasn't a fit in Mangini scheme, Mangini realized it and traded him.

Bowles on the other hand specifically chose this player for his scheme.

No comparison to Vilma should be made. Bowles has a vision for Lee and he is "scheme specific" in Bowles mind.\\