Hackenberg is in the HOUSE!!!

[CanadaSteve]

19 hours ago, Kleckineau said:

Two years of terrible tape doesnt lie.

You're right.  It doesn't lie.  He played bad.  And so would Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, and anyone of the best to ever play if they got sacked 103 times in a couple of seasons in COLLEGE!

This kid has it.  What the key now is to let him take a year off of getting the sh*t kicked out of him, teach him to go back to what made him the NUMBER 1 recruit in the country, and gain his confidence again in an offensive line that won't get him killed.

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, T0mShane said:

But Brock Osweiler? 

Hey, what were his other options to get something now. He rolled the dice. But, Hackenberg today would have been a much bigger roll.

[harts724]

Damaged good!

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Flushing Roots said:

All of your points above could apply to Geno and Petty as well.

The downside is no greater with Hack than it is with Geno and Petty.

Geno is an already proven bust/waste.  His playing poorly does not create an additional waste.

Petty was a 4th, not a 2nd.  A lesser investment.

Other than that (minor) point, I agree.

[Matt39]

23 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

O'Brien also elected to give Brock Osweiler $18 mil per instead of drafting Hackenberg, then passed on Hackenberg in the second.

Didn't the Texans GM not even tell Obrien that they were signing Osweiler?

[kmnj]

I was at many of his games-family has PSU tickets -he sucks

[norm428]

36 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

O'Brien also elected to give Brock Osweiler $18 mil per instead of drafting Hackenberg, then passed on Hackenberg in the second.

Umm, wasn't Osweiler signed before the draft? After signing him to that ridiculous contract, did you expect the Texans to take any QB in the early rounds?

[Matt39]

Just now, kmnj said:

I was at many of his games-family has PSU tickets -he sucks

Less athletic Josh Mccown judging by just the eye test imo. Similar arm motions. 

[chirorob]

19 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Yeah. Totally. Good thing pass rush, dropped balls, and batted balls don't happen in the NFL. 

"Pro ready" QBs don't have to sit a year minimum. That's not how that works. 

How many QB's are rushed out there and get crushed?  How many benefited from sitting a year and learning?

[Mainejet]

I like this pick. Mac said he liked to always have young guys fighting it out behind the starter and I agree, He thinks picking a QB is an almost every draft thing and I completely agree. This guy has the potential to be a franchise QB. But right now there's no way that he is ready. He'll need at least one season the way I see it. It should be a very interesting QB competition come TC in 2017.

[PCP63]

1 hour ago, kmnj said:

I was at many of his games-family has PSU tickets -he sucks

What do you base that Conclusion on?

[kmnj]

8 minutes ago, PCP63 said:

What do you base that Conclusion on?

my eyes-simple as that-dude made many AWFUL throws and in the NFL being highly inaccurate wont cut it

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, norm428 said:

Umm, wasn't Osweiler signed before the draft? After signing him to that ridiculous contract, did you expect the Texans to take any QB in the early rounds?

Exactly.  And Osweiler is 25 years old.  He's not some veteran stopgap.  They're banking on him being a franchise guy. 

[Jetmech]

So the QB the Cowboys picked is getting love as Romo's heir apparent? Seriously this is confusing stuff.

[PennStFan]

The other PSU fan (Scott Dierking) above, he was pretty spot on in describing Hack.

Hack is and always has been a project. Its important to keep this perspective.

I saw Hack play several times in high school both prior to committing to Penn St and after. In an age where D1(and sometime lesser) prospects put up ridiculous stats and totally dominate in HS, he was not that. He was a 50% passer in his HS career. Took a ton of sacks.

But he was always 6'4" 220+ since his Jr year with a very strong arm and has always been an articulate, likable kid.

He didn't carry his team or dominate in HS, and he did not carry his team or dominate in college. He has always looked the part. Just an impressive looking kid, if you were creating a kid in a lab, Hack would be the physical model. When he takes sack he does not look like it bothers him one bit. I never saw him take a violent hit in HS or college until his very last play in college.

I know you will hear that he was the top rated pro style HS QB, but that was purely based on him being a man child, never needing to grow into his body. He started out much lower and quickly rose in the recruiting rankings after he was offered by Alabama, Tenn and PSU (Bill Obrien). They all saw a prototypical pro QB body and a very strong arm and kid who you could tell was very smart and savvy in any interview. He did very well in the combine-like Nike Elite11 QB competition, and that bumped him up to a 5 star prospect and the number 1 pro style QB.

When he got to PSU, he won the starting job over a Junior College transfer who had never played a game above that level. There were no other scholarship QBs. Hack looked very poised in his first game. In fact, he has always looked poised. I've never seen him look rattled. The legend of hack had really begun after this game (Syracuse @ Meadowlands).

Despite a lot of current press about him being great his freshman year, he was pretty good, very inconsistent, and shows flashes of great throws that only an NFL QB could make. But there would be games like vs Kent State where he was 13-35 passing. Throwing balls behind, over, under guy who were open. Much of this season, the PSU offense was punchless. Hack played well, typically later in games when he was able to complete longer, downfield plays, mostly to Allen Robinson. He always struggled with any type of timing throw and really struggled for some reason with short dump off passes to RBs either on designed screen passes or release plays.

He capped the year off with a very good game vs Wisconsin on the road, and I think everyone really felt like, ok, we really have something here.

But Obrien left and Franklin installed a ball control shorter passing scheme. Hack struggled with the volume of shorter timing passes and they tried to open up the offense for him a bit more and give him more downfield throws. That was a major conundrum. The OL was not good enough to give hack time to make longer plays down the field. So over the course of his next 2 years you saw frustration from both Hack and Franklin, as neither was able to effectively do what they wanted or what they were most comfortable with.

Had Obrien stayed thru Hacks career at PSU, undoubtedly, you would have seen better results from Christian. No doubt. But also, Obrien totally left the OL cupboard bare on purpose. When the sanctions hit, he made a decision to recruit skill players and make OL from the run-on program (essentially motivated walkons). O'Brien did not expect sanctions, nobody really did and that was a major problem going forward. But OB would have had the same mess in Hacks next 2 years at OL and would have needed more short passes to accomodate. At some point, Hacks lack of touch on shorter throws and timing throws were going to be exposed regardless. The only short throw hack can make consistently, is a pass to the TE who goes out 5-10yrs and turns around and Hack throws him a bullet. But passes less than 15yds where the reciever is moving and or needs the ball placed for the ability to run after the catch has never been there. Not in HS, under OB or under Franklin.

If there is a way for the Jets offense to rarely have to rely on those types of passes, I think Hack is fully capable of learning the offense, understanding where to go with the ball and reading defenses. Those are typically the biggest issues a QB faces in going from stud college QB to NFL QB. Hack can learn those things. He can get better at pre-snap. He can prepare himself for what may happen.

But I have yet to see a QB succeed without touch in the last 10 years of this league. The Oakland raiders play action down the field stuff of the 70's and 80's are in a time capsule somewhere. Thats what he would thrive in.

I'm hoping for the best for him, but I'm just not seeing it in todays NFL.

 

 

[Scott Dierking]

13 minutes ago, PennStFan said:

The other PSU fan (Scott Dierking) above, he was pretty spot on in describing Hack.

Hack is and always has been a project. Its important to keep this perspective.

I saw Hack play several times in high school both prior to committing to Penn St and after. In an age where D1(and sometime lesser) prospects put up ridiculous stats and totally dominate in HS, he was not that. He was a 50% passer in his HS career. Took a ton of sacks.

But he was always 6'4" 220+ since his Jr year with a very strong arm and has always been an articulate, likable kid.

He didn't carry his team or dominate in HS, and he did not carry his team or dominate in college. He has always looked the part. Just an impressive looking kid, if you were creating a kid in a lab, Hack would be the physical model. When he takes sack he does not look like it bothers him one bit. I never saw him take a violent hit in HS or college until his very last play in college.

I know you will hear that he was the top rated pro style HS QB, but that was purely based on him being a man child, never needing to grow into his body. He started out much lower and quickly rose in the recruiting rankings after he was offered by Alabama, Tenn and PSU (Bill Obrien). They all saw a prototypical pro QB body and a very strong arm and kid who you could tell was very smart and savvy in any interview. He did very well in the combine-like Nike Elite11 QB competition, and that bumped him up to a 5 star prospect and the number 1 pro style QB.

When he got to PSU, he won the starting job over a Junior College transfer who had never played a game above that level. There were no other scholarship QBs. Hack looked very poised in his first game. In fact, he has always looked poised. I've never seen him look rattled. The legend of hack had really begun after this game (Syracuse @ Meadowlands).

Despite a lot of current press about him being great his freshman year, he was pretty good, very inconsistent, and shows flashes of great throws that only an NFL QB could make. But there would be games like vs Kent State where he was 13-35 passing. Throwing balls behind, over, under guy who were open. Much of this season, the PSU offense was punchless. Hack played well, typically later in games when he was able to complete longer, downfield plays, mostly to Allen Robinson. He always struggled with any type of timing throw and really struggled for some reason with short dump off passes to RBs either on designed screen passes or release plays.

He capped the year off with a very good game vs Wisconsin on the road, and I think everyone really felt like, ok, we really have something here.

But Obrien left and Franklin installed a ball control shorter passing scheme. Hack struggled with the volume of shorter timing passes and they tried to open up the offense for him a bit more and give him more downfield throws. That was a major conundrum. The OL was not good enough to give hack time to make longer plays down the field. So over the course of his next 2 years you saw frustration from both Hack and Franklin, as neither was able to effectively do what they wanted or what they were most comfortable with.

Had Obrien stayed thru Hacks career at PSU, undoubtedly, you would have seen better results from Christian. No doubt. But also, Obrien totally left the OL cupboard bare on purpose. When the sanctions hit, he made a decision to recruit skill players and make OL from the run-on program (essentially motivated walkons). O'Brien did not expect sanctions, nobody really did and that was a major problem going forward. But OB would have had the same mess in Hacks next 2 years at OL and would have needed more short passes to accomodate. At some point, Hacks lack of touch on shorter throws and timing throws were going to be exposed regardless. The only short throw hack can make consistently, is a pass to the TE who goes out 5-10yrs and turns around and Hack throws him a bullet. But passes less than 15yds where the reciever is moving and or needs the ball placed for the ability to run after the catch has never been there. Not in HS, under OB or under Franklin.

If there is a way for the Jets offense to rarely have to rely on those types of passes, I think Hack is fully capable of learning the offense, understanding where to go with the ball and reading defenses. Those are typically the biggest issues a QB faces in going from stud college QB to NFL QB. Hack can learn those things. He can get better at pre-snap. He can prepare himself for what may happen.

But I have yet to see a QB succeed without touch in the last 10 years of this league. The Oakland raiders play action down the field stuff of the 70's and 80's are in a time capsule somewhere. Thats what he would thrive in.

I'm hoping for the best for him, but I'm just not seeing it in todays NFL.

 

 

One slight note, Hack battled Steven Bench who WAS as scholarship qb. Not sure if Crooks was or not. 

Time will tell

[PennStFan]

1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said:

One slight note, Hack battled Steven Bench who WAS as scholarship qb. Not sure if Crooks was or not. 

Time will tell

Bench was there in the spring but transferred before the summer began. So he was never on the field with Hack. In fact Bench was advised by O'Brien to transfer because of Hack coming in (and Ferguson). Good point about Crooks, he may have been on scholarship, but he was always an afterthought.

[CanadaSteve]

46 minutes ago, kmnj said:

my eyes-simple as that-dude made many AWFUL throws and in the NFL being highly inaccurate wont cut it

Were you there the first season, or after the complete fall of the Penn State program?

[Augustiniak]

in hack's freshman year he completed 59% of his passes with 20 tds and 10 picks.  that's pretty good for running a real nfl offense in a freshman year.  we will never know, but if the talent base had stayed the same, there's no reason to think he couldn't have improved upon the completion % as he learned more.  

 

[cant wait]

47 minutes ago, PennStFan said:

But I have yet to see a QB succeed without touch in the last 10 years of this league. The Oakland raiders play action down the field stuff of the 70's and 80's are in a time capsule somewhere. Thats what he would thrive in.

I'm hoping for the best for him, but I'm just not seeing it in todays NFL.

 

 

You keep harping on this "touch" thing... The fact is the Franklin offense that hack ran the last two years was a progression system, I.e. Go through your reads in order, yes it emphasized short timing based passing but when your OL cannot block it's a mess. Here's a good post from Reddit that breaks down the o'brien system better than I can, and likely why the jets believe they can work with the kid:

 

Yes, you are correct that double calls and calling protections are not entirely unique on their own, but doing both of those things at a high level in an offense that is structured like Bill O'Brien's is virtually unheard of in a college quarterback. Allow me to briefly explain. 

Bill O'Brien runs his own adaptation of the Erhardt-Perkins offense that has been tailored to his specific style of play calling. In particular, rather than structuring his calls in a traditional "X9, Y8, etc" kind of way where individual receiver routes are named, O'Brien reduces different passing concepts to a single word. For example, a "Hoss" call is a combination of a hitch route from an X receiver outside and a seam route from a tight end some other receiver inside. It's a good way to beat Cover-2 (kind of like a "smash" call) because theoretically it stretches the hang corner vertically between two different routes and forces him to choose which one to take away. 

The quarterback, if he sees something he likes, can easily change any passing play into any other passing play at the line of scrimmage simply by looking to his receivers on one side of the formation or the other and giving a "hoss" call, which signals to every eligible receiver on that side which route within that concept they are responsible for. It gives a quarterback complete control at the LOS, which even in the NFL isn't super common in most systems. Brady and Peyton are the most notable guys that do that much work pre-snap, and in college it's extraordinarily rare to see that much control for a quarterback, much less for a true freshman like Hack was. 

So a typical snap for a quarterback in O'Brien's system might go something like this. He gets a double call from the sideline on 3rd and 7 - one run play and one pass play - and delivers that to the huddle...let's say "Gun Brown Right Hoss Y-Juke", which is significantly shorter and easier to process than a traditional play call by the way because it simplifies entire concepts into single words. The offense gets to the line of scrimmage and Hackenberg IDs what looks like a Cover-2 shell with a four down "under" front at first, but he notices a strong safety "capping" over his slot receiver - a red flag for a blitz - as well as the Will linebacker doing his best to look inconspicuous as a blitzer despite being lined up only three yards behind the DL. He slides protection to the weak side to account for the potential blitz from the Will, while having his running back pick up anything that comes off the edge from the slot corner. 

So now hack has his protections sorted with six on six, but he's not done yet. That slot receiver is running what is called a "Juke route" in O'Brien's system, which means he's releasing hard inside like it's a drag at 5 yards, then puts his foot in the ground and darts back outside to get separation. Wes Welker must have caught two hundred of these from Brady in his career. The added benefit of running the "Juke" here though is that it also allows the slot receiver to keep his eyes on the linebackers to see who blitzes and who doesn't - he's the hot receiver, after all. Hack gives him the "two" signal, meaning if two players blitz from his side, he's the hot receiver and should sit his route down over the middle and look for the ball almost immediately. If only one comes (the slot corner), he should run the juke as normal.

Post-snap, it's a seven man blitz with the Mike backer charging up the middle as well. With only a six man protection on, Hack has to throw hot. Luckily, his receiver recognizes the blitz, sits his route down, catches the ball, and gets some YAC for an easy first down. This is the kind of system that ruthlessly punishes teams for not disguising their blitzes well, which is why few blitz-happy defenses have ever truly frustrated the Bradys and Mannings of the league outside of the Ravens in their prime. Ray Lewis understood how to disguise and play chess, which is truly the only way to really get home against these kinds of quarterbacks (assuming the offensive line and skill positions are remotely decent, of course).

Anyway, that is just a small sample of what QBs are asked to do in this offense. Get double calls, ID coverages and blitzes, change protections, route concepts, or even entire plays at the line of scrimmage, and then execute post snap. Literally any play can become any other play depending on certain pre-snap calls, which is a type of flexibility and depth that few offenses in college can match. Penn State's new offensive coordinator runs a spread system that barely fills a half inch binder. O'Brien's was nearly eight times that size, and Hack was running it as a true freshman. I just have a ton of doubts that spread quarterbacks like Goff or Lynch - who both have never done anything in college like the system described above - can come in an immediately take command of this offense like Hackenberg can. He already knows the verbiage, the concepts, and how O'Brien wants this offense to be run. 

Mechanical issues or not, he's the only guy that can run this system to its max potential as a rookie.

[Pcola]

3 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

As I a Penn Strate guy, I obviously have a lot of opinions on Hack. They are obviously subjective (but I won't go Crazy Carl subjective on you), and they come from a novice's perspective. Just like everyone else on this board. And without a crystal ball. 

-If it is one thing the tI believe that I have witnessed over the past decade in the NFL, it is that "character" does matter at the NFL qb position. It helps determine ethic and habits (witness Geno in the past 2 years, for character NOT to have). 

Know one thing about Hackenberg, He was the TOP qb recruit coming into PSU. His commitment came months before the Sandusky sanctions broke. There were others in that class that decided to bail on PSU. There were others that did not want to hold up to a commitment, in the face of what was going to be a difficult situation. 

Hackenberg held strong. He did not waiver. And many schools came calling, trying to convince hime he was walking into an impossible situation, and he was. That counts.

-PSU's offensive coordinator under Franklin, John Donovan, may have been the most inept play caller that I have ever witnessed. Remember when we were able to predict play calls under Edwards regime? That is what the PSU offense has been like the past 2 years (thankfully, Donovan has been fired).

The "go to" staple for Donovan was the flanker bubble screen, with the WR at or behind the line of scrimmage. So you have a qb with a rocket arm, and what is your "go to" play? The bubble screen? They tried to substitute it as a run game compliment , with the Oline being so bad. But it was a mess. It did not compliment Hack's skill set.

-If you want to talk about performing in the clutch, Hackenberg has many flashes of that. Check when he was a freshman under O'Brien. Look at how many times they went on it on 4th down. And we are not talking about 4th and inches many of the times. And the player pulling the trigger on those plays and making them work was Hack, as a Freshman. 

Check the plays of the 4th quarter of the Pinstripe Bowl 2 years ago when PSU rallied from several scores down to win in OT. Check the final drive to tie Michigan his Freshman year to send the game to OT, and ultimately win. If you want "flashes" of what can be, those should be your starting points.

-As many have noted, the O-line was abysmal. PSU had 7 commits on the O-line the last 2 years, while most schools have an average of 17. They were converting D-linemen into O-line just to field a squad. If that does not make you spooked at the qb position, nothing will, Remember, the sanctions at PSU were meant to cripple the program, and many called it worse than the death penalty. One of the reasons that the program was not crippled is Hack at qb.

As well, as soon as Allan Robinson left, Hack lost his security blanket. All that were left were freshman (true freshman) and sophomores at the skill position. There was a not anyone that Hack could lean on regularly.

Hey, there are many things that need polish in his game, not unlike all abs coming out of college. But he thrived under a complex O'Brien scheme, and O'Brien did not have any reins on him. That should tell you something. Is it a guarantee he becomes a HOF? Of course not. But anybody sitting here in a jet forum telling you know what can happen in the future of a college athlete is blowing smoke, along with maybe some other things.

A lot of the boxes are checked for Hack as a pro style qb. A lot are in completes. But, I for one am glad they took that chance and feel the gamble is worth it. And this is not CrazyCarl talking.

 

 

Thank you for sharing.  I think I can speak for most and say that now that Hackenberg is a Jet, every single one of us is pulling for him and hope he can get back on track.  

Where a lot of "flack" is coming from is just out of frustration because as an organization, our drafts have been horrendous.  Outside of the first round, one could argue we are one of the worst in the NFL over the past eight years.  Inside the first, it's much better but there are still huge busts.

all the data points to Hack not making the transition, but you are correct.  There are many things that cannot be measured and Hack apparently has them in Spades.  Looking at this two ways, he can sit for two years and learn.  This gives him the time to allow the pro game to slow down.  Or he can start at some point late this season or next.  This will afford him the opportunity to break into the league with Marshall, Decker, and Forte to ease the transition.

maybe when Macc said everything is up to Hack, he feels that the mental part of the game will be no problem for him so if he can correct his mechanical flaws, he probably could beat out Geno (if Fitz isn't resigned).  I don't know which is better.

i can say this, I have been very critical of Macc this offseason (other than draft issues) but I am pleasantly surprised that we may have two 3rd round picks starting as our OLBs.  So maybe there is a little hope after all.

[Tinstar]

I don't get it with this fan base. This kid is a Jet. It is done  whether you love it or not and now we should all get behind this QB and show him our love as a fan base. What's not to like about this kid. He 's got the arm and the brains and he's a decent kid base on what I am aware of about him . The stuff he lacks can be attributed to his terrible foot work due to all the bad habits he developed over the past 2 yrs  while he was running for his life .

Here's what I know. This kid somehow with little to no support from his offensive teammates somehow managed to keep the Penn State program from having a losing season under his watch . Under his watch, the program had few scholarships and very marginal talent  yet he kept the winning tradition alive . He showed toughness with all the sacks and hits he took and came away injury free  from State College . He displayed the highest character when he decided to honor his commitment to State College despite having options when the sanctions came down .

 

We have a kid who gives us a chance and all I read is how he sucks or will suck bla bla bla . 

Jet fans, show this kid some love and welcome him to our beleaguered franchise .  He offers us a chance, and that's what we all want is it not  ?

[PennStFan]

2 minutes ago, cant wait said:

You keep harping on this "touch" thing... The fact is the Franklin offense that hack ran the last two years was a progression system, I.e. Go through your reads in order, yes it emphasized short timing based passing but when your OL cannot block it's a mess. Here's a good post from Reddit that breaks down the o'brien system better than I can, and likely why the jets believe they can work with the kid:

 

 

These reddit guys are just taking this stuff from a "black shoes diaries" article last season that they thought described the difference between the 2 offenses.

So you are now trusting 3rd hand anonymous evaluations that do nothing other than try to complicate the fact that O'Brien ran a much more complex system than Franklin and that is a fact and I've never heard anyone in the world dispute that fact.

The reason I keep harping on this "touch" thing, is because through all the noise, that is his biggest deficiency.

Hack is fully capable of understanding complex things, concepts. Hack has never shown the ability to place the ball where it needs to be placed inside of 15 yards.

So, In my opinion, all I'm trying to do is simplify all the noise. Everything else is noise. If Hack can figure out how to throw the ball with touch, to throw a catchable ball, to place the ball in a tight window inside of 15 yards, you have yourself a keeper. If not, it will be the same old same old. He will be able to learn everything else!

 

 

[Augustiniak]

6 minutes ago, Pcola said:

Thank you for sharing.  I think I can speak for most and say that now that Hackenberg is a Jet, every single one of us is pulling for him and hope he can get back on track.  

Where a lot of "flack" is coming from is just out of frustration because as an organization, our drafts have been horrendous.  Outside of the first round, one could argue we are one of the worst in the NFL over the past eight years.  Inside the first, it's much better but there are still huge busts.

all the data points to Hack not making the transition, but you are correct.  There are many things that cannot be measured and Hack apparently has them in Spades.  Looking at this two ways, he can sit for two years and learn.  This gives him the time to allow the pro game to slow down.  Or he can start at some point late this season or next.  This will afford him the opportunity to break into the league with Marshall, Decker, and Forte to ease the transition.

maybe when Macc said everything is up to Hack, he feels that the mental part of the game will be no problem for him so if he can correct his mechanical flaws, he probably could beat out Geno (if Fitz isn't resigned).  I don't know which is better.

i can say this, I have been very critical of Macc this offseason (other than draft issues) but I am pleasantly surprised that we may have two 3rd round picks starting as our OLBs.  So maybe there is a little hope after all.

i think all evidence points to hack being able to make the transition, since he has already proven he can run a pro offense while in college.  he's basically the opposite of nearly all college qb prospects.  he has run a pro offense successfully, then failed when trying to run a crappy college offense with crappy personnel.  lynch may see the field sooner but denver will have to dumb down the playbook for him for a while.  the better defenses should be able to confuse him.

[PennStFan]

2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i think all evidence points to hack being able to make the transition, since he has already proven he can run a pro offense while in college.  he's basically the opposite of nearly all college qb prospects.  he has run a pro offense successfully, then failed when trying to run a crappy college offense with crappy personnel.  lynch may see the field sooner but denver will have to dumb down the playbook for him for a while.  the better defenses should be able to confuse him.

I think that is why the Jets GM took a chance on Hack. Hack will be able to understand exactly what they want him to do. He will be very impressive to them in OTA's and he will have poise to spare.

An analogy I would make would be to compare hack to a pro golfer.

Hack can hit a 350 yd drive

Hack can reach the green in 2 on any par five.

Hack can hit a 1 iron from the rough, in a rainstorm to within 10 feet of the cup.

Hack can hit a bunker shot from a deep pot bunker over water to within 10 feet of the cup.

Hack can make a 45 foot down hill putt.

Hack can execute a course strategy similar to Jack at the 86 Masters.

Hack misses a ton of 3 foot putts.

[cant wait]

3 minutes ago, PennStFan said:

These reddit guys are just taking this stuff from a "black shoes diaries" article last season that they thought described the difference between the 2 offenses.

So you are now trusting 3rd hand anonymous evaluations that do nothing other than try to complicate the fact that O'Brien ran a much more complex system than Franklin and that is a fact and I've never heard anyone in the world dispute that fact.

The reason I keep harping on this "touch" thing, is because through all the noise, that is his biggest deficiency.

Hack is fully capable of understanding complex things, concepts. Hack has never shown the ability to place the ball where it needs to be placed inside of 15 yards.

So, In my opinion, all I'm trying to do is simplify all the noise. Everything else is noise. If Hack can figure out how to throw the ball with touch, to throw a catchable ball, to place the ball in a tight window inside of 15 yards, you have yourself a keeper. If not, it will be the same old same old. He will be able to learn everything else!

 

 

Absolutely, but in your opinion is this a mechanical issue or is it more a result of hack not being a good fit for the more simplified spread offense concepts? I'm just trying to get a good understanding of how the jets are seeing him as a prospect, because it's definitely not based on what's on the stat sheets

[ChuckkieB]

10 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

I don't get it with this fan base. This kid is a Jet. It is done  whether you love it or not and now we should all get behind this QB and show him our love as a fan base. What's not to like about this kid. He 's got the arm and the brains and he's a decent kid base on what I am aware of about him . The stuff he lacks can be attributed to his terrible foot work due to all the bad habits he developed over the past 2 yrs  while he was running for his life .

Here's what I know. This kid somehow with little to no support from his offensive teammates somehow managed to keep the Penn State program from having a losing season under his watch . Under his watch, the program had few scholarships and very marginal talent  yet he kept the winning tradition alive . He showed toughness with all the sacks and hits he took and came away injury free  from State College . He displayed the highest character when he decided to honor his commitment to State College despite having options when the sanctions came down .

 

We have a kid who gives us a chance and all I read is how he sucks or will suck bla bla bla . 

Jet fans, show this kid some love and welcome him to our beleaguered franchise .  He offers us a chance, and that's what we all want is it not  ?

Completely agree.  There are so many boo birds out there that are willing to piss on the fire no matter what the Jets do.  Granted, the Jets fans have have had to eat a lifetime of disappointment and have become extremely jaded, but it seems that there are people who call themselves fans out there that take some some sort of odd pleasure in watching the Jets fail and almost seem to be rooting for that to happen. Just support the team.  Not liking a draft pick is one thing, but crucifying a player before he has taken one snap as Jet is just silly.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, PennStFan said:

I think that is why the Jets GM took a chance on Hack. Hack will be able to understand exactly what they want him to do. He will be very impressive to them in OTA's and he will have poise to spare.

An analogy I would make would be to compare hack to a pro golfer.

Hack can hit a 350 yd drive

Hack can reach the green in 2 on any par five.

Hack can hit a 1 iron from the rough, in a rainstorm to within 10 feet of the cup.

Hack can hit a bunker shot from a deep pot bunker over water to within 10 feet of the cup.

Hack can make a 45 foot down hill putt.

Hack can execute a course strategy similar to Jack at the 86 Masters.

Hack misses a ton of 3 foot putts.

with proper coaching on footwork and technique, is it reasonable to think he can cut down on some of those puts.  

[Beerfish]

13 hours ago, PennStFan said:

I've seen every game of Hacks college career and about 5-6 of his HS games.

Pretty much every response on here is accurate.

Hack is both the future of your franchise and the reason for people getting fired.

Because that exactly what happened at Penn State.

He really is a Dr Jekyll Mr Hide player. He's Aaron Rogers for 3 plays a game and Ryan Leaf for 3 plays a game and ok for the rest.

And that is exactly like Geno smith and Mark Sanchez.  Look good for parts of each game but make ghastly game losing plays at the worst time.

[Beerfish]

18 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

I don't get it with this fan base. This kid is a Jet. It is done  whether you love it or not and now we should all get behind this QB and show him our love as a fan base. What's not to like about this kid. He 's got the arm and the brains and he's a decent kid base on what I am aware of about him . The stuff he lacks can be attributed to his terrible foot work due to all the bad habits he developed over the past 2 yrs  while he was running for his life .

Here's what I know. This kid somehow with little to no support from his offensive teammates somehow managed to keep the Penn State program from having a losing season under his watch . Under his watch, the program had few scholarships and very marginal talent  yet he kept the winning tradition alive . He showed toughness with all the sacks and hits he took and came away injury free  from State College . He displayed the highest character when he decided to honor his commitment to State College despite having options when the sanctions came down .

 

We have a kid who gives us a chance and all I read is how he sucks or will suck bla bla bla . 

Jet fans, show this kid some love and welcome him to our beleaguered franchise .  He offers us a chance, and that's what we all want is it not  ?

How quickly people forget the Sanchez and Geno years.  We don't want another, hey lets give him a shot!  He may be good!  Three years of scrub ball later we are in the same spot.  Once the season starts and games are played everyone will will want him to succeed and be happy if he does.  There is nothing at all wro9n with questioning the pick right now however.  It's not personal, no one hates the guy  (yet). 

Also you can't look at any major front office move in isolation of 'oh this is just one player, he will work out for not.'  Does the quality of the player justify the pick?  how long are you committed to the player?  Who else is going to be gone becasue you have brought in the player?  All those things are factors.  A 2nd round pick is a 'starting player' pick. 

[PennStFan]

1 minute ago, cant wait said:

Absolutely, but in your opinion is this a mechanical issue or is it more a result of hack not being a good fit for the more simplified spread offense concepts? I'm just trying to get a good understanding of how the jets are seeing him as a prospect, because it's definitely not based on what's on the stat sheets

I'm not sure if its a mechanical issue or if its an instinctual issue. I dont think its a case of footwork or release point or anything like that. I think Hack is really very comfortable throwing the ball very hard. I think his instinct is to throw hard. When a hard throw is needed, he looks amazing. I've never seen him attempt a touch pass other than a back pylon fade, which he throws very nicely. So maybe its just a matter of the Jets saying, if this is his only problem, were going to have him throw 1000 touch passes a day and he has to get better at it. Because, its really his only issue. His pocket presence can be cleaned up, same with footwork. But he needs to instinctively be able to throw a ball that is catchable.

[nyjunc]

Just now, Beerfish said:

How quickly people forget the Sanchez and Geno years.  We don't want another, hey lets give him a shot!  He may be good!  Three years of scrub ball later we are in the same spot.  Once the season starts and games are played everyone will will want him to succeed and be happy if he does.  There is nothing at all wro9n with questioning the pick right now however.  It's not personal, no one hates the guy  (yet). 

Also you can't look at any major front office move in isolation of 'oh this is just one player, he will work out for not.'  Does the quality of the player justify the pick?  how long are you committed to the player?  Who else is going to be gone becasue you have brought in the player?  All those things are factors.  A 2nd round pick is a 'starting player' pick. 

yeah, I mean why would we want another 4 year stretch where we had one losing season, won 4 playoff games and made 2 AFC Championship Games?  That would really suck.

[Skeptable]

Just now, Beerfish said:

How quickly people forget the Sanchez and Geno years.  We don't want another, hey lets give him a shot!  He may be good!  Three years of scrub ball later we are in the same spot.  Once the season starts and games are played everyone will will want him to succeed and be happy if he does.  There is nothing at all wro9n with questioning the pick right now however.  It's not personal, no one hates the guy  (yet). 

Also you can't look at any major front office move in isolation of 'oh this is just one player, he will work out for not.'  Does the quality of the player justify the pick?  how long are you committed to the player?  Who else is going to be gone becasue you have brought in the player?  All those things are factors.  A 2nd round pick is a 'starting player' pick. 

What is the alternative, drafting Lynch who is just as much of a project as Hackenberg? Or waiting till later and throwing some more darts at the wall.  Whether he makes it or not is not the question yet.  He has the talent to be the Top QB in the draft... not saying he will or won't I have my own opinion on that... Why not take a chance... we didn't have the ammunition to get Goff. So then what!

[Integrity28]

21 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

I don't get it with this fan base. This kid is a Jet. It is done  whether you love it or not and now we should all get behind this QB and show him our love as a fan base. What's not to like about this kid. He 's got the arm and the brains and he's a decent kid base on what I am aware of about him . The stuff he lacks can be attributed to his terrible foot work due to all the bad habits he developed over the past 2 yrs  while he was running for his life .

Here's what I know. This kid somehow with little to no support from his offensive teammates somehow managed to keep the Penn State program from having a losing season under his watch . Under his watch, the program had few scholarships and very marginal talent  yet he kept the winning tradition alive . He showed toughness with all the sacks and hits he took and came away injury free  from State College . He displayed the highest character when he decided to honor his commitment to State College despite having options when the sanctions came down .

 

We have a kid who gives us a chance and all I read is how he sucks or will suck bla bla bla . 

Jet fans, show this kid some love and welcome him to our beleaguered franchise .  He offers us a chance, and that's what we all want is it not  ?

Fans are mostly idiots.

Fans on the internet are empowered idiots.

Don't try to reason with idiots. It is far better than their Freudian sh*t manifest here, than in the communities they live in.

Also, we have 2 kids that give us a chance... Petty and Hack. I want them both to be homeruns. Hell yes.

That said, Hackenberg is sort of the perfect QB to actually make it as a Jet. See: the bolded word choice in your post. It just feels like the perfect pairing. I say let the fans root against him... every QB prospect our fans have rooted for, has washed out. So it makes sense that the one they don't support could find a way to prevail.

[Lupz27]

6 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Lol. Are we comparing Luck and Hack now? 

Forget get that, we're comparing possibly the best offensive line in college when Luck was there, and an offense built around him to what Hackenberg had the last 2 years, that's even more laughable.  TBH pre snap I think Luck is a great college comparison, now what happened after the snap is a different story.