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sometimes fans sadly know more


kmnj

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12 hours ago, kmnj said:

it is posted often on here about jets doom and gloom fans. There is a reason for that besides the obvious being we have not won in pretty much forever. Many times for whatever the reason Jets have people in place that have made some mind numbing dumb choices when even the casual fan sees it is wrong.

The ones that stick in my craw the worst are passing over marino and sapp for kenny and brady(kyle brady that is) but our history is full of bad draft picks and bad choices by bad coaches and gms. 

We have heard "we have a plan have to stick with it" our gm knows best "(over and over again even though these guys have no history of winning), "this guys a player", "the guy we wanted"," best player available"gives us the best chance to win so much the mere sound of those phrases makes me tremble with fear and sick with nausea.

This brings me to this draft-the majority of fans that watch college football know what their eyes allow them to see. I watched almost every psu game as family goes there. I have been to many of the games and we drafted a guy that I believe will be beyond awful. I dont know what the coaches/scouts see. It is like they are telling me fire is cold but in all of my being I know it is hot. I wanted Lynch but even though  they passed on him , I understood because they did not want a "project". Then this pick comes through and it has left me sick and questioning my fandom once again.

I am in my early 40s and have been going to almost every game since I walking and in that time I have seen more then my share of heartbreak. I own numerous psls includuing some of the best in the house.  A man can only take so much especially watching the giants win rings and every few years building a championship type team.

I hope my fears are wrong but my gut and eyes tell me the future is muddled with 4-8 win seasons.

 

I wanted no part of Fitz coming back and hated how he choked away the playoffs last year and now after seeing our newly drafted qb I would welcome fitz back with open arms and carry his luggage back to his locker.

 

 

 

if it's all the same to you i'll put my trust in the professionals rather than some dude on a message board. 

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4 minutes ago, MetsJets1962 said:

if it's all the same to you i'll put my trust in the professionals rather than some dude on a message board. 

yes and the professional that just won a superbowl and is a hall of fame qb went with lynch

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24 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

You know, for all the praise Horseface gets as a GM, he hasn't done jacksh*t except throw money at Manning and a bunch of FA's.  He's real fortunate that Peyton had one last playoff run in him because it's gonna buy him some time if Lynch bombs.  All I have heard here is that Osweiler isn't worth his price, is average, etc...and yet all of you guys lament the fact that we didn't draft the poor man's Osweiler at 20.  Not only that, but I'd be willing to bet that Elway would have preferred to keep Brock if he had the choice.

ahh yes so he was lucky good one-funny how that works -everything the guy has done in his football and non football life he has been a winner

he won a superbowl as a gm-how many other gms as you put it threw money at FAs and lost and lost badly-call the guy in washington ask how it worked out for him

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3 minutes ago, kmnj said:

ahh yes so he was lucky good one-funny how that works -everything the guy has done in his football and non football life he has been a winner

he won a superbowl as a gm-how many other gms as you put it threw money at FAs and lost and lost badly-call the guy in washington ask how it worked out for him

Something tells me that if Elway picked Justin Beiber to be his QB you would still "sadly know more" 

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1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

You know, for all the praise Horseface gets as a GM, he hasn't done jacksh*t except throw money at Manning and a bunch of FA's.  He's real fortunate that Peyton had one last playoff run in him because it's gonna buy him some time if Lynch bombs.  All I have heard here is that Osweiler isn't worth his price, is average, etc...and yet all of you guys lament the fact that we didn't draft the poor man's Osweiler at 20.  Not only that, but I'd be willing to bet that Elway would have preferred to keep Brock if he had the choice.

 

I asked a poster who was drooling over Elway as a QB expert to name all the QB prospects Elway has drafted that have become elite.  Any retard could sign Peyton, a 1st ballot HOF, GOAT type player.  

 

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41 minutes ago, kmnj said:

yes and the professional that just won a superbowl and is a hall of fame qb went with lynch

You really need to make up your mind.  Either you know more or you don't.  Lol

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10 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

You know, for all the praise Horseface gets as a GM, he hasn't done jacksh*t except throw money at Manning and a bunch of FA's.  He's real fortunate that Peyton had one last playoff run in him because it's gonna buy him some time if Lynch bombs.  All I have heard here is that Osweiler isn't worth his price, is average, etc...and yet all of you guys lament the fact that we didn't draft the poor man's Osweiler at 20.  Not only that, but I'd be willing to bet that Elway would have preferred to keep Brock if he had the choice.

I wish we had their drafts (and their UDFAs like Harris & CJ) instead of ours, and been on their end of the Tebow trade. Just putting that out there. 

He's done pretty well in FA on starters that didn't require massive money like we handed out last year. Marshall (udfa minimum off Jaguars scrap heap), Sanders ($5m per), Knighton ($2m per while he was there), Ward ($5m/yr), Stewart ($2m/yr), Mathis ($2.5m), and probably others I'm just not thinking of & don't feel like looking up more.

He did look majorly un-genius-like in screwing up C.J. Anderson's tender to try and save like $900k. So instead of tendering an undrafted starter for a 2nd rounder at $2.5m (which isn't even guaranteed; remember Kellen Clemens 2010), he had to match the Dolphins' 4 yr $18m ($10m guaranteed) deal, or lose him for nothing (maybe a compensatory end-of-5th rounder in 2017). Oopsies. 

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You guys are crazy, you are chatting about players 3 years after the draft , the draft is a crap shoot the teams are going by college tape ,which one of you guys had Brady high on draft list ,he would have never played if it was not for Mo Lewis  

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7 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I asked a poster who was drooling over Elway as a QB expert to name all the QB prospects Elway has drafted that have become elite.  

How many QB's has Macc, or Chan, drafted that have become elite?

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22 hours ago, kmnj said:

it is posted often on here about jets doom and gloom fans. There is a reason for that besides the obvious being we have not won in pretty much forever. Many times for whatever the reason Jets have people in place that have made some mind numbing dumb choices when even the casual fan sees it is wrong.

The ones that stick in my craw the worst are passing over marino and sapp for kenny and brady(kyle brady that is) but our history is full of bad draft picks and bad choices by bad coaches and gms. 

We have heard "we have a plan have to stick with it" our gm knows best "(over and over again even though these guys have no history of winning), "this guys a player", "the guy we wanted"," best player available"gives us the best chance to win so much the mere sound of those phrases makes me tremble with fear and sick with nausea.

This brings me to this draft-the majority of fans that watch college football know what their eyes allow them to see. I watched almost every psu game as family goes there. I have been to many of the games and we drafted a guy that I believe will be beyond awful. I dont know what the coaches/scouts see. It is like they are telling me fire is cold but in all of my being I know it is hot. I wanted Lynch but even though  they passed on him , I understood because they did not want a "project". Then this pick comes through and it has left me sick and questioning my fandom once again.

I am in my early 40s and have been going to almost every game since I walking and in that time I have seen more then my share of heartbreak. I own numerous psls includuing some of the best in the house.  A man can only take so much especially watching the giants win rings and every few years building a championship type team.

I hope my fears are wrong but my gut and eyes tell me the future is muddled with 4-8 win seasons.

 

I wanted no part of Fitz coming back and hated how he choked away the playoffs last year and now after seeing our newly drafted qb I would welcome fitz back with open arms and carry his luggage back to his locker.

 

 

 

I railed on the Jets when they signed Ryan Fitzpatrick. I thought all along that last season would be pissed away by the QB no matter who that QB was Geno or Fitz. Even now, and considering how much better he played than probably you and I thought he was capable, I still only view him as a stopgap. But this is the best this team can hope for in 2016. There are no other more pleasant or confidence inducing moves to make for this season. Fitz is the ONLY option open to this team.

The Lee pick also SUCKS and likely set this defense back. This team will be lucky to win 6 games this season. Mac did NOTHING to improve this team when you consider he did not add a TE and that was absolutely paramount for this draft. The competition will own us and f*cking Todd Bowl of sh*t.

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

How many QB's has Macc, or Chan, drafted that have become elite?

The point isn't that Macc and Co. Have drafted more of them. 

The point is until Elway proves he knows better, doesn't need to be give the benefit of the doubt over anyone else.   

The is why I trust Polians opinion over others, he is established.  Just because you played QB doesn't mean you can identify QB talent better than a talent evaluator.  If true every GM or personnel guy in any sport would be an ex player.  That's all. 

How did Elways insight help with Osweiler?  According to Elway fans he knew not to overpay him.  That means he missed on the pick.  If not then O'Brien and Houston understand the importance of the position and what they say of Osweiler more than Elway 

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14 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

The point is until Elway proves he knows better, doesn't need to be give the benefit of the doubt over anyone else.

I think the fact that he just won a Super Bowl platooning Brock Osweiler and Peyton Manning's desiccated corpse might be some indication that he has some idea what he's doing generally and the fact that he's, you know, John Elway would be reasonable grounds for assuming that this extends to the quarterback position.

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2 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

I think the fact that he just won a Super Bowl platooning Brock Osweiler and Peyton Manning's desiccated corpse might be some indication that he has some idea what he's doing generally and the fact that he's, you know, John Elway would be reasonable grounds for assuming that this extends to the quarterback position.

That says to me the HC did a great job if your point is Manning sucked and Osweiler wasn't all that good.  He platooned no one, the HC did. 

Again if all it takes to evaluate players is being a HOF player why is he the rarity, a player as GM

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10 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

 

I asked a poster who was drooling over Elway as a QB expert to name all the QB prospects Elway has drafted that have become elite.  Any retard could sign Peyton, a 1st ballot HOF, GOAT type player.  

 

Osweiler sorta looked good for 7 games last season but the jury is still out.

 

This idea that Elway is an infallible talent evaluator because he was a great Qb is nonsense.  Isiah Thomas is one of the greatest basketball players of all time and a terrible GM

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1 hour ago, Mainejet said:

I railed on the Jets when they signed Ryan Fitzpatrick. I thought all along that last season would be pissed away by the QB no matter who that QB was Geno or Fitz. Even now, and considering how much better he played than probably you and I thought he was capable, I still only view him as a stopgap. But this is the best this team can hope for in 2016. There are no other more pleasant or confidence inducing moves to make for this season. Fitz is the ONLY option open to this team.

The Lee pick also SUCKS and likely set this defense back. This team will be lucky to win 6 games this season. Mac did NOTHING to improve this team when you consider he did not add a TE and that was absolutely paramount for this draft. The competition will own us and f*cking Todd Bowl of sh*t.

The Lee pick was excellent actually. You'll have to wait and see how Bowles uses him. He does actually know more about defense than you or me.

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Just now, drdetroit said:

Osweiler sorta looked good for 7 games last season but the jury is still out.

 

This idea that Elway is an infallible talent evaluator because he was a great Qb is nonsense.  Isiah Thomas is one of the greatest basketball players of all time and a terrible GM

Actually I agree, was shocked they let him go.  Problem is that means while Elway was either asleep at the wheel or thinks less of Osweiler than we do or obviously Houston does.  And if we're all right he blew it.  So either way he didn't know what he was doing and screwed up. 

Going into the season with Sanchez as your starting QB also doesn't say you know QBs either. 

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11 hours ago, kmnj said:

ahh yes so he was lucky good one-funny how that works -everything the guy has done in his football and non football life he has been a winner

he won a superbowl as a gm-how many other gms as you put it threw money at FAs and lost and lost badly-call the guy in washington ask how it worked out for him

He literally just wrote check after check after check.  The only reason those FA's wanted to go to Denver was Manning. He hasn't done anything that says he can build through the draft and that will determine long term success. His team won the Super Bowl. Great. I'm not gonna sit here and act like it was Elways drafting genius that won them that trophy though.

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39 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Osweiler sorta looked good for 7 games last season but the jury is still out.

 

This idea that Elway is an infallible talent evaluator because he was a great Qb is nonsense.  Isiah Thomas is one of the greatest basketball players of all time and a terrible GM

10 tds and 6 picks and a 5-2 record Manning had 9 tds and 17 picks(QB rating 67.9) and had a 7-2 record no doubt that D was the reason they won..

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47 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Actually I agree, was shocked they let him go.  Problem is that means while Elway was either asleep at the wheel or thinks less of Osweiler than we do or obviously Houston does.  And if we're all right he blew it.  So either way he didn't know what he was doing and screwed up. 

Going into the season with Sanchez as your starting QB also doesn't say you know QBs either. 

Sanchez got to two AFCG's and has a 4-2 playoff record.  I think this bronco team is better than what we Had in 2012

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I've watched about 6 of Hackenberg's games since he got drafted. Generally, he is a good decision maker. You don't see him make a lot of throws in the games I watched were he throws into coverage or forces throws (ala Geno). However, Hackenberg's accuracy is all over the place. I suspect it has to do with his mechanics and I'm not the only one that has made this observation: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/christian-hackenberg?id=2555416

You can fix mechanical issues. You need good coaching (it seems to be almost acknowledged that Hackenberg did not have good coaching the last 2 years), reps (Hack is supposed to be a hard worker) and the ability to retain what you learn (Hack is supposed to be smart). I think the kid is salvageable, but it is going to take a lot of patience by the Jets and a lot of hard work on Hack's part. 

 

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3 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I've watched about 6 of Hackenberg's games since he got drafted. Generally, he is a good decision maker. You don't see him make a lot of throws in the games I watched were he throws into coverage or forces throws (ala Geno). However, Hackenberg's accuracy is all over the place. I suspect it has to do with his mechanics and I'm not the only one that has made this observation: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/christian-hackenberg?id=2555416

You can fix mechanical issues. You need good coaching (it seems to be almost acknowledged that Hackenberg did not have good coaching the last 2 years), reps (Hack is supposed to be a hard worker) and the ability to retain what you learn (Hack is supposed to be smart). I think the kid is salvageable, but it is going to take a lot of patience by the Jets and a lot of hard work on Hack's part. 

 

Good thing you didn't add fans after Jets..:)

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10 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I wish we had their drafts (and their UDFAs like Harris & CJ) instead of ours, and been on their end of the Tebow trade. Just putting that out there. 

He's done pretty well in FA on starters that didn't require massive money like we handed out last year. Marshall (udfa minimum off Jaguars scrap heap), Sanders ($5m per), Knighton ($2m per while he was there), Ward ($5m/yr), Stewart ($2m/yr), Mathis ($2.5m), and probably others I'm just not thinking of & don't feel like looking up more.

He did look majorly un-genius-like in screwing up C.J. Anderson's tender to try and save like $900k. So instead of tendering an undrafted starter for a 2nd rounder at $2.5m (which isn't even guaranteed; remember Kellen Clemens 2010), he had to match the Dolphins' 4 yr $18m ($10m guaranteed) deal, or lose him for nothing (maybe a compensatory end-of-5th rounder in 2017). Oopsies. 

Our drafts since Elway took over have been pretty decent. I just feel it's also important to note that a lot of those FA's came because they knew Peyton Manning gave them the best shot at a championship and for that reason alone.  They were also willing to take team friendlier deals which helped. Has he landed a few good ones?  Yeah, definitely.  If I'm being totally honest though, have his drafts been significantly better than ours since he took over? No.  He just had Peyton Manning leading the charge not Geno Smith, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Mark Sanchez.  

This whole "trusting Elway" talk got brought up because of Paxton Lynch.  Problem with that is that a lot of these posters seem to forget that Elway was in this position because of Osweiler.  There's a whole lot of discussion to be had with that situation but the skinny is this:  Either Elway realized Brock will never become what he envisioned and he let him walk (least likely scenario and if true, also proves he isn't this QB genius everyone makes him out to be) OR he stupidly played hardball a little to hard and lost Brock to another team because he got a little full of himself (more likely and says he still has some stuff to learn as a GM).  Also, before I get to my next point, let's not forget that he also blew the Kaep situation because he thought after a Super Bowl win those "John Elway discount FA's" would just keep rollllling in.  Why in the world would any reasonable human in Kaepernick’s situation take the massive paycut Elway wanted him to take?  

You know, we just went 10-6 with a journeyman QB, our GM is fresh off executive of the year, and although we don't have a clear long-term answer just yet at QB, we didn't NEED to take the Paxton Lynch gamble.  A gamble like that failing could mean the end for a GM like Macc...for Elway?  Not only would that have been BPA and filled a need for him, but the Super Bowl win grants him a tonnnn of leeway when making decisions like that. If Paxton bombs in Denver, Elway will get another chance to get it right and no one will second guess him because they're all high on championship confetti.  Macc makes that move and his seat gets A LOT warmer.  I don't believe Paxton was worth doing that to himself and I'm glad Macc agreed.

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24 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Sanchez got to two AFCG's and has a 4-2 playoff record.  I think this bronco team is better than what we Had in 2012

Sanchez went for a ride to and through the playoffs in 09&10.  

Hes shlt the bed and cost Philly a playoff run when it was more on him too. 

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20 hours ago, Il Mostro said:

So, conversely, he was worried Brissett wouldn't be there after the 3rd?  Come on, man.  Brady wasn't even an afterthought, let alone a plan at 199.  He got lucky, plain and simple.

Come on, man. It wasn't just luck. Steroids had a lot to do with it, along with other forms of cheating.

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On 4/30/2016 at 0:41 PM, PatsFanTX said:

In the 6th round of the 2000 draft, the Jets selected DE Tony Scott over Tom Brady.

And in rounds one through five the Pats picked someone OTHER than Tom Brady as well. Real brilliant move. You Pats fans make me sick. Brady was a pure stroke of luck that will not happen again in 50 years, and you guys all act like you knew what he was going to be from the start. Bull sh*t.

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On 4/30/2016 at 11:57 AM, Irish Jet said:

Keller over DeSean Jackson still hurts me to this day. I was screaming for that pick.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion and what's the point in even discussing if you're not gonna have one? LOL

Keller was billed as a speedy athletic tight end but never really was that. He was a jag that had a knack for inexplicably tripping over the hash marks after a reception.

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3 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

Keller was billed as a speedy athletic tight end but never really was that. He was a jag that had a knack for inexplicably tripping over the hash marks after a reception.

That play on 4th down against the Ravens when he ran out of bounds 2 yards short was a disgrace. He easily could have turned up field and made it but he was just a total coward with the ball.

Pretty sure he was on steroids too. The doctor who outed Manning implicated him as well. Rather random name to drop if it's not true.

 

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18 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

Keller was billed as a speedy athletic tight end but never really was that. He was a jag that had a knack for inexplicably tripping over the hash marks after a reception.

Keller was absolutely Sonny Liston-esque in his ability to hit the deck without being touched.

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