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More Valuable.... LT or 3-4 DE?? Bills/Glenn reach deal


32EBoozer
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1 hour ago, 32EBoozer said:

In LT Cordy Glenn's 5-year, $65M deal, he gets $26.5M fully guaranteed, 2nd highest ever for an OT.

Should Mo expect more than a starting LT? I say NO!

 

On average, DE's make more that LT's; so the  answer is probably yes.

http://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-highest-paid-positions-2014-9

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olivier vernon is getting $17 million from the giants, let that one sink in

the watt deal was surpassed in just 1 season.  next season the vernon deal will be surpassed and on and on

the vernon deal is probably the sticking point right now, he isn't 1/2 the player mo is

vernon had 7.5 sacks in 16 starts last year, lol

 

vernon has 29 sacks in 4 seasons, mo has 36 in 5 and is a beast in the run game

but around here most folks think he has no value and should take $10mm, lol

 

 

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1 hour ago, Larz said:

but around here most folks think he has no value and should take $10mm, lol

 

Who said either of those things?

He doesn't have high trade value. This is true, or he would have been traded already. BFD. Suh got $16M/yr as a FA, and also probably had less trade value than the comp pick, which is why Detroit just let him go. Vernon got $17M and Miami had to remove the transition tag because teams weren't negotiating with him if Miami could just match it. 

It's why most teams just let the player go instead of trying a franchise tag & trade, since the latter is pretty hard to pull off. This was noted by reporters in February and still fans scoffed at taking even a mid-late 1st rounder in trade. An offer we didn't sniff at from one team. Sounds like we couldn't even pair him up with our #1 when we tried to move up above 13 for Tunsil (no way was our #2 getting dangled if that's where Macc wanted to take his targeted QB). That alone wasn't getting it done so he backed out. 

So the only "around here most folks think" is that the Jets should place a much higher value on Mo than all 31 other teams place on him.

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If Mo was a FA like Vernon was he'd get that huge contract.....it's hard to give up that kind of money and a first round pick. But without question other teams would be willing to give Mo the huge contract he's looking for if he was a FA.

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4 hours ago, papz187 said:

If Mo was a FA like Vernon was he'd get that huge contract.....it's hard to give up that kind of money and a first round pick. But without question other teams would be willing to give Mo the huge contract he's looking for if he was a FA.

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Totally agree. But it's a rare non-QB that teams feel is worth that money and a 1st rounder. 

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7 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Who said either of those things?

He doesn't have high trade value. This is true, or he would have been traded already. BFD. Suh got $16M/yr as a FA, and also probably had less trade value than the comp pick, which is why Detroit just let him go. Vernon got $17M and Miami had to remove the transition tag because teams weren't negotiating with him if Miami could just match it. 

It's why most teams just let the player go instead of trying a franchise tag & trade, since the latter is pretty hard to pull off. This was noted by reporters in February and still fans scoffed at taking even a mid-late 1st rounder in trade. An offer we didn't sniff at from one team. Sounds like we couldn't even pair him up with our #1 when we tried to move up above 13 for Tunsil (no way was our #2 getting dangled if that's where Macc wanted to take his targeted QB). That alone wasn't getting it done so he backed out. 

So the only "around here most folks think" is that the Jets should place a much higher value on Mo than all 31 other teams place on him.

Lol

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Totally agree. But it's a rare non-QB that teams feel is worth that money and a 1st rounder. 

Ok I gotcha, and agree with your point. The last Jet I can remember that was able to get a first rounder in return and needed a new contract was John Abraham, but pure pass rushers are just worth more to teams it seems despite Mo being the more balanced player.

Not to say Mo couldn't fetch a first and a new deal as well, but so far it hasn't happened and I would bet the biggest reason must be the contract that Mo wants. If his demands were a little more reasonable then I would imagine we'd find a trading partner (or even just resign him ourselves).

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1 minute ago, SenorGato said:

Seriously....Who knew not trading someone could fuel such a tale? I assume that 2nd or 3rd a handful were willing to dump Wilkerson for was never offered either because then it would have happened! 

Watt was tagged then signed to a record deal. Von miller was tagged.  Josh Norman had his tag rescinded then signed a mega deal.  Forget the watt deal, it's the Vernon deal that is screwing us

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Just now, Larz said:

Watt was tagged then signed to a record deal. Von miller was tagged.  Josh Norman had his tag rescinded then signed a mega deal.  Forget the watt deal, it's the Vernon deal that is screwing us

Meh, all stuff to help pass the time into the summer. The Jets need their fans talking about something besides "lol Hackenberg, Smith, Fitzgerald" leading into TC. The deadlines we make up and pretend they have to meet just aren't a thing. Once Goff/Wentz were decided as the 1st and 2nd pick in the draft, known weeks before the actual draft, the Jets had basically zero incentive to trade Wilkerson. The draft preoccupies everyone for a little bit, then there's a little break because February-late April is such a grind, and I expect we  probably an extension sometime in early summer. I haven't been worried about this since the Jets were tied to both Vernon and Osemele in FA.

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9 minutes ago, papz187 said:

Ok I gotcha, and agree with your point. The last Jet I can remember that was able to get a first rounder in return and needed a new contract was John Abraham, but pure pass rushers are just worth more to teams it seems despite Mo being the more balanced player.

Not to say Mo couldn't fetch a first and a new deal as well, but so far it hasn't happened and I would bet the biggest reason must be the contract that Mo wants. If his demands were a little more reasonable then I would imagine we'd find a trading partner (or even just resign him ourselves).

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All of this is 100% correct. Some don't like or accept the reality of the situation. Even Abraham only fetched a late first rounder. Frankly I think they would have finalized something, even if it was more than the team wanted, had Williams not fallen to #6. After no one showed interest in surrendering a high pick again, I think there's a decent chance they come to an agreement now.

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26 minutes ago, Larz said:

Watt was tagged then signed to a record deal. Von miller was tagged.  Josh Norman had his tag rescinded then signed a mega deal.  Forget the watt deal, it's the Vernon deal that is screwing us

What are you talking about? JJ Watt was never tagged.

Watt was extended in 2014, after the team exercised its 5th year option on him for the 2015 season (which the Jets also did with Mo, at the same time, in the same 2014 offseason). He and Mo were taken in the same draft, so their "franchise tag" year would have been at the same time as well: this season.

Von Miller simply has higher value than Mo. Teams would be offering up a 1st and more for him. 

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6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

 I think there's a decent chance they come to an agreement now.

They have to.

No chance of signing Fitz(if MacDaddy chooses that route) or even to have a chance at signing a player or 2 after camp cut-downs(we're gunning for you Breno!)

Just hope the animosity can be backed down and Mo realizes the Jets are the best place for him. If he can give a bit of a home town discount would certainly help the team.

And..... best of all, my Wilkerson jersey remains relevant!

 

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41 minutes ago, papz187 said:

Ok I gotcha, and agree with your point. The last Jet I can remember that was able to get a first rounder in return and needed a new contract was John Abraham, but pure pass rushers are just worth more to teams it seems despite Mo being the more balanced player.

Not to say Mo couldn't fetch a first and a new deal as well, but so far it hasn't happened and I would bet the biggest reason must be the contract that Mo wants. If his demands were a little more reasonable then I would imagine we'd find a trading partner (or even just resign him ourselves).

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Revis blew out his knee and still got the Jets pick 13. At some point I think it just has to be accepted that the Jets just weren't shopping Wilkerson to the level some folks like to imagine. Field calls? Sure, they've been getting them since last offseason in the case of Wilkerson and anyone with sense would at least listen for a minute or two. Trade for the shot at landing a long term QB? Yes, absolutely without a doubt, but that had no shot given the context of what was available, when, and for how much. There was like a 30 second window way back before the offseason where there was some hope Goff (or Wentz, I guess) falling into the teens, but that was gone fast if it was ever really there.

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37 minutes ago, Larz said:

Watt was tagged then signed to a record deal. Von miller was tagged.  Josh Norman had his tag rescinded then signed a mega deal.  Forget the watt deal, it's the Vernon deal that is screwing us

Wilkerson is no JJ Watt.

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23 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

They have to.

No chance of signing Fitz(if MacDaddy chooses that route) or even to have a chance at signing a player or 2 after camp cut-downs(we're gunning for you Breno!)

Just hope the animosity can be backed down and Mo realizes the Jets are the best place for him. If he can give a bit of a home town discount would certainly help the team.

And..... best of all, my Wilkerson jersey remains relevant!

 

I don't think Mo is giving anyone a hometown discount, let alone the team that's let him take on his long-term risk for the past 2 seasons and counting. If there's any "discount" it's just the result of a normal contract negotiation, not Mo just being nice. Each side gets less than they ideally want, but in the end they get something they're happy with, even if they're only 90+% happy and not 100% happy.

Mo has only 3 ways of getting a long-term deal this year: with the Jets, with a team who trades a 2017 #1 pick to the Jets, or if the Jets outright release him. The team hasn't been able to trade him, so I don't know how likely that is to happen now after the draft is over. A bunch of teams who might have been interested in him just drafted similar type players a week ago. The Jets could release him, but that seems less likely as well. Either of those 2 ("non-Jets") options requires Mo to sit, wait, and cross his fingers for something that may never happen. The only option left - other than playing out the year under the tag, of course - is to take less than he was seeking in exchange for a deal now, with the Jets. 

I don't know which is most likely tbh. I think the least likely is the team just rescinding the tag, but maybe that happens tomorrow for all I know. I do think there's a good chance they come to a deal now. With Bowles announcing - even before the draft - he won't be using Richardson at OLB again this year (other than a random play here or there, I'd imagine), that might cut into Mo's numbers. This is when the iron is hot for Mo; if he gets injured or if he finishes 2016 with 5 sacks then he's not going to get the additional windfall for taking on another year of risk himself. If he repeats (or exceeds) last year's #s without injury, that iron would be just as hot or even hotter next year and he'll make even more. But I think he saw how quickly things can change firsthand, when he broke his leg with less than 30 minutes of game-time left on his contract, and likely wants something done this season. So would I.

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Revis blew out his knee and still got the Jets pick 13. At some point I think it just has to be accepted that the Jets just weren't shopping Wilkerson to the level some folks like to imagine. Field calls? Sure, they've been getting them since last offseason in the case of Wilkerson and anyone with sense would at least listen for a minute or two. Trade for the shot at landing a long term QB? Yes, absolutely without a doubt, but that had no shot given the context of what was available, when, and for how much. There was like a 30 second window way back before the offseason where there was some hope Goff (or Wentz, I guess) falling into the teens, but that was gone fast if it was ever really there.

Ah good point, forgot about Revis.

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2 minutes ago, papz187 said:

Ah good point, forgot about Revis.

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The thing with Revis though he was thought to be one of the best ever and a 4 time Pro bowler and 3 time consecutive All Pro when he was traded.. Mo made his first Pro Bowl in year 5..

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13 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

The thing with Revis though he was thought to be one of the best ever and a 4 time Pro bowler and 3 time consecutive All Pro when he was traded.. Mo made his first Pro Bowl in year 5..

OTOH he was a cornerback with a blown out knee seeking a record contract and/or salary after several holdouts...

 

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2 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

OTOH he was a cornerback with a blown out knee seeking a record contract and/or salary after several holdouts...

 

And with his football reputation he got it.. I agree his injury was worse then Mo's but Mo isn't thought of in the same vein as Revis.. Except of course by some Jet fans..LOL

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15 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

And with his football reputation he got it.. I agree his injury was worse then Mo's but Mo isn't thought of in the same vein as Revis.. Except of course by some Jet fans..LOL

Well that, half a decade of antagonistic negotiations, and a willingness to take no guaranteed money on essentially a one year deal. I'm not sure what your point is beyond taking an opportunity to swap Watt for Revis temporarily, but I'm sure most posters here are aware that Wilkerson is neither Revis or Watt in a historical sense. You keep going after those strawmen THO.

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17 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Well that, half a decade of antagonistic negotiations, and a willingness to take no guaranteed money on essentially a one year deal. I'm not sure what your point is beyond taking an opportunity to swap Watt for Revis temporarily, but I'm sure most posters here are aware that Wilkerson is neither Revis or Watt in a historical sense. You keep going after those strawmen THO.

The point was simple if Mo was on the same level at his position that Revis was at his maybe he gets his big payday and the Jets get a 1st rd pick.. That's not a strawman argument it's a fact.. It been some Jet fans that have posted the huge bounty they thought the Jets should have got for Mo not me..:rolleyes:

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9 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

The point was simple if Mo was on the same level at his position that Revis was at his maybe he gets his big payday and the Jets get a 1st rd pick.. That's not a strawman argument it's a fact.. It been some Jet fans that have posted the huge bounty they thought the Jets should have got for Mo not me..:rolleyes:

Ignoring that it's not a fact, Wilkerson's lined up for a sizable contract either way, still battling straw men if you actually read rather than react.

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6 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Ignoring that it's not a fact, Wilkerson's lined up for a sizable contract either way, still battling straw men if you actually read rather than react.

So no one thought the Jets should have got a 1st or better for Mo??:rolleyes: I never said Mo wouldn't get a sizable contract and if he hadn't been tagged he would have.. But teams obviously didn't think what they had to give up plus that contract was worth it.. Maybe you don't think that's a fact but I sure do..

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8 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

So no one thought the Jets should have got a 1st or better for Mo??:rolleyes: I never said Mo wouldn't get a sizable contract and if he hadn't been tagged he would have.. But teams obviously didn't think what they had to give up plus that contract was worth it.. Maybe you don't think that's a fact but I sure do..

What is better? What? What are you going on about? I get it - it sucks that a Muhammad is replacing your :wub::wub::wub: s in Jets history and if he stays healthy will beat them to the HOF, but you're rambling.

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9 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

What is better? What? What are you going on about? I get it - it sucks that a Muhammad is replacing your :wub::wub::wub: s in Jets history and if he stays healthy will beat them to the HOF, but you're rambling.

There you go acting like the child you are..:rolleyes:

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16 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

There you go acting like the child you are..:rolleyes:

Damn, the rolling eye emoji? That's pretty serious, something I only ever see the big kids use. Something had to be done about all that rambling and dancing you were doing THO. B)B):wub:

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Who knows what the Jets asked for in return for Wilkerson either.....they could of wanted only a top 15 or 20 first rounder, or a first and 3rd, etc which would also make a big difference in whether a team would've been willing to trade for him and give him a new deal pre-draft.

Revis was the best at his position and arguably the best on the defensive side of the ball preinjury before the trade.....the way 2009-11 Revis impacted a game far outweighs how Wilkerson impacts a game which justified why TB was willing to give the 13th overall pick for him despite coming off an injury (the non guaranteed contract obviously helped too).

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