Scouting Report: Christian Hackenberg- (Team Failure)

[JetNation]

The third part of our Hackenberg scouting report deals with the lack of talent/ability around the QB in his time at PSU.

1)

Is the RG blind?  He has absolutely no one to block, and all but moves right out of the way from the blitzing line backer.   The only thing he does is extend his arm out like he was asking for a high five as the line backer flies right by.  Hackenberg is in the process of moving from his first read to second read when he gets taken out.  This play is from his second year there, the start of the James Franklin era, and therefore notice the absolute lack of anyone being open on this play.  This is a play where the offensive line holds back the rush, allowing someone to wriggle free, but Hackenberg doesn’t get that shot at all.   The guy making the sack is Jets first round pick Darron Lee.

2)

Different RG, similar result.  In this case, Michigan State sends a dual LB blitz alas there are six players are going after the QB.  Half of those rushers reach the QB as if they were running through air.  The RG ignores all of them to actually double team the one rusher that was actually properly blocked.  As you see from the receivers running, none of them were running hot routes, so there is nowhere to throw this ball.  This is a sack you can’t blame on Hackenberg, because he has absolutely no shot at turning this into a good play.  By the time he reaches the top of his drop back, he’s toast.

3)

This is an issue that is far too familiar to Jet fans, mainly from the likes of Stephen Hill.  The QB is scrambling for his life and running to the side.  Dancing tango with the CB in the same spot isn’t going make you open.  This is where a fundamentally sound WR runs across the field away from the CB or up the field to try and provide the QB with any kind of target.  Unfortunately, this WR stands right there hugging the CB, and therefore Hackenberg has nowhere to throw this ball.  Come back for the pass, do anything.  This play shows the rawness of the WRs on the roster.

4)

Just a flat out drop by the WR, no way around it.  The pass is perfectly throw, but flat out dropped.  This should have been a first down, but instead goes down as an incomplete pass.  In the background, fan favorite RG is doing a good job blocking air again.

5)

This is an absolute gem of a throw, that is dropped.  Hackenberg rolls out from the pocket, and throws an absolute laser right to the hands of the diving WR.  Replays from other angles show that the ball hit him perfectly in the hand, yet he still drops the pass.  The ball is placed where the WR is the only one that has a shot at the pass, but it’s another dropped pass.

6)

This is somewhat of a touch catch in traffic, but most decent WRs this side of Clyde Gates make this catch. In another replay, this pass also hits him perfectly in his hands, and yet is still dropped.  Hackenberg steps up in the pocket and delivers a good pass between two defenders, but the drop really hurts him here.

7)

This is another example where Hackenberg is throwing while being hit, but places the ball well for his WR to catch, but he drops the pass.

8)

This is a blitz by the Eagles from the right side, and Hackenberg makes a bad throw.  This is still a bad play by the TE, because that pass is still catch-able, but this one has plenty of fault to go around.  For one, Hackenberg needs to learn to put touch on his short throws so they are easier to catch for his receivers.  The players running out there need to actually catch passes that are hitting them in both hands.  Also, our favorite right guard faces a touch challenge here.  There are three players rushing with only two lineman to that side.  So it was a losing proposition, thus he picked one rusher and focused on him, and was in the process of losing.

Overall, the talent level at Penn State around Hackenberg was atrocious.  The offensive line play was horrible, especially from the right side.  The receivers were raw dropping catch-able passes, while showing raw route running skills.

Please be sure to check out Part 1 (Pros), Part 2 (Cons), and Part 3 (Summary).

Click here to read the full story...

[Jetsfan80]

This is a pretty solid case to oppose the "lol his college completion % sucked" crowd.  Hackenberg walked into a rough situation that got way worse when O'Brien left for the NFL.  It's a legitimate aspect of the discussion.

[LIJetsFan]

This time of year I'm always looking forward to TC and the preseason shakeout.  This year Lee and esp Hack are the can't wait to see how they are doing guys.

[Augustiniak]

you have to wonder why so many other scouts were turned off by this when there are clear reasons why his play regressed.  i guess there's just such a fear of taking a qb high in the draft when there's bad tape, that's how you can lose your job.  

[JoJoTownsell1]

4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

you have to wonder why so many other scouts were turned off by this when there are clear reasons why his play regressed.  i guess there's just such a fear of taking a qb high in the draft when there's bad tape, that's how you can lose your job.  

That's exactly the issue. With Hack, you are making an educated guess because the tape from the last 2 years is not pretty. He was broken by the system and the lack of scholarship players/oline. 

I am one of his biggest defenders on this board, but he made some AWFUL throws at times when he was facing zero pressure. Tough for a GM to take him in the 1st. Personally, I think his work ethic will allow him to regain his Freshmen year form and become an franchise QB, but it's a gamble. Then again, Lynch/Wentz were huge gambles also. 

 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

That's exactly the issue. With Hack, you are making an educated guess because the tape from the last 2 years is not pretty. He was broken by the system and the lack of scholarship players/oline. 

I am one of his biggest defenders on this board, but he made some AWFUL throws at times when he was facing zero pressure. Tough for a GM to take him in the 1st. Personally, I think his work ethic will allow him to regain his Freshmen year form and become an franchise QB, but it's a gamble. Then again, Lynch/Wentz were huge gambles also. 

 

and yet he still managed to throw 16 tds and 6 picks in the big ten.  he gutted it out.  he definitely seems to have the mental toughness to succeed and based on how he's trained since the season ended, he has the work ethic.  

nobody is saying he's going to be aaron rodgers when he's at his best.  but based on his skill set, i think a guy like flacco is a reasonable comparison.   

this year is going to be very interesting, the most interesting since sanchez was drafted.  the team is good, the early schedule is rough.  if fitz returns i do not think geno makes the team.  mccags said petty can be a competent backup qb, and i think that means this season.  and if the season goes south quickly, i definitely think hack will get to start games at the back end of the season.  he's way ahead from a playbook standpoint than guys like sanchez and geno.  remember the red/green/yellow system for sanchez?  compare that to what hack was doing his freshman year at penn state.  whether anyone wants to admit it, hack will progress quickly in that regard, his football iq has been praised already.  also, even if fitz returns, he's a good bet to get injured at some point.  transition year, sit back and enjoy it folks.  

[Il Mostro]

20 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

you have to wonder why so many other scouts were turned off by this when there are clear reasons why his play regressed.  i guess there's just such a fear of taking a qb high in the draft when there's bad tape, that's how you can lose your job.  

I am guessing that other GM's looking for a QB thought they could steal him later than the 2nd, based strictly on his tape.  The Jets did not take that chance, which may have turned out to be the smarter play.

[carlito1171]

That blitzing LB who the RG totally missed in the second clip is none other then Jets 2016 1st round pick Darron Lee

[drsamuel84]

Macc obviously sees potential and didn't want to risk the hope he'd make it to the third round.  I think it's a worthwhile move and I agree with the mentality of picking a QB until you find one.  At the same time, Macc didn't go out of his way to take this kid.  He didn't move up in the draft, give up any picks, make any trades etc.. he stood pat and made a decision that if was there in the 2nd he was worth the pick.  Whether he becomes a good NFL QB or not is still TBD but there's potential and value for a team like ours.

[Ex-Rex]

1 hour ago, LIJetsFan said:

This time of year I'm always looking forward to TC and the preseason shakeout.  This year Lee and esp Hack are the can't wait to see how they are doing guys.

You know that Mac and Bowles have seen all the film on Hack. What they value is his mental aspect. The game is NOT too fast for him as it is for Geno Smith. The mechanics and other aspects can be coached because this kid is very coachable. The physical traits are all there, it all depends on how quickly he adapts. 

[Jetsfan80]

11 minutes ago, drsamuel84 said:

Macc obviously sees potential and didn't want to risk the hope he'd make it to the third round.  I think it's a worthwhile move and I agree with the mentality of picking a QB until you find one.  At the same time, Macc didn't go out of his way to take this kid.  He didn't move up in the draft, give up any picks, make any trades etc.. he stood pat and made a decision that if was there in the 2nd he was worth the pick.  Whether he becomes a good NFL QB or not is still TBD but there's potential and value for a team like ours.

He also was able to nail his 3rd rounder, which took away a lot of the ill feeling I had that he'd "missed out" on some other quality 2nd round prospects.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Ex-Rex said:

You know that Mac and Bowles have seen all the film on Hack. What they value is his mental aspect. The game is NOT too fast for him as it is for Geno Smith. The mechanics and other aspects can be coached because this kid is very coachable. The physical traits are all there, it all depends on how quickly he adapts. 

that's right.  mccags is counting on football iq, coachability, motivation.  the talent is there, nobody denied that not even the analysts who hated the pick.  mel even said it will be very interesting a few years from now to see what's become of all the qbs in this class.  

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He also was able to nail his 3rd rounder, which took away a lot of the ill feeling I had that he'd "missed out" on some other quality 2nd round prospects.

i have not read any negativity about any other of their picks.  burris, jenkins, peake, etc., were all praised.  most think lee will excel under bowles.  

[BowlesMovement]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

that's right.  mccags is counting on football iq, coachability, motivation.  the talent is there, nobody denied that not even the analysts who hated the pick.  mel even said it will be very interesting a few years from now to see what's become of all the qbs in this class.  

I don't think this was a great QB draft class from a can't miss prospect standpoint. I think most people feel Goff is the most NFL ready, but a lot of people question his upside. Wentz and Lynch are spread QB's who have a ton of risk associated with them, particularly Wentz being taken 2 overall. Hackenberg has as much upside as anyone in this draft, and as much downside too, that is why he went in the 2nd. The good thing is the downside is really nothing more than a late 2nd round pick for the Jets. From a risk management move, this was a great move by Hackenberg, despite what the JN scouts think of him.

[77DRAFT]

I haven't seen a lot of Hack, but some of his "inaccurate' throws were too covered receivers and he was throwing up a prayer - these passes could not be intercepted but his receiver had a shot to make something happen, His receivers generally were not good, Maybe it's wishful thinking but I haven't seen more than a couple off target throws to openguys,  wonder how many pure misses he had ?   and or dropped interceptions, Fitz had 15 easy interceptions dropped last season according to Jaws, I remember at least 10.

[RutgersJetFan]

Isn't this the same exact argument we've been having about every single sh*tty quarterback that the Jets have had since Vinny? Weaponz?

[Augustiniak]

6 minutes ago, BowlesMovement said:

I don't think this was a great QB draft class from a can't miss prospect standpoint. I think most people feel Goff is the most NFL ready, but a lot of people question his upside. Wentz and Lynch are spread QB's who have a ton of risk associated with them, particularly Wentz being taken 2 overall. Hackenberg has as much upside as anyone in this draft, and as much downside too, that is why he went in the 2nd. The good thing is the downside is really nothing more than a late 2nd round pick for the Jets. From a risk management move, this was a great move by Hackenberg, despite what the JN scouts think of him.

it's true, from a talent standpoint hack is as good as any in this class.  mcshay hated the pick based on value but said during the draft that hackenberg made some throws that none of the other qbs can make.  at least this regime seems to have a plan for him with respect to coaching.  if rex drafted him he'd be toast.

[Bruce Harper]

I think Marshall would make him look good on some of these types of plays by going up and getting them.  Unfortunately, though,barring the unforeseen, Marshall may retire before Hack starts for the Jets. 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Bruce Harper said:

I think Marshall would make him look good on some of these types of plays by going up and getting them.  Unfortunately, though,barring the unforeseen, Marshall may retire before Hack starts for the Jets. 

one clear need for the jets next year is a big wr to eventually replace marshall.  that and a stud OT.  maybe next season will finally, finally be the year offense dominates the draft.

[Freemanm]

1 hour ago, LIJetsFan said:

This time of year I'm always looking forward to TC and the preseason shakeout.  This year Lee and esp Hack are the can't wait to see how they are doing guys.

Playing Hackenberg in his rookie year (other than a few snaps during garbage time situations) would be extraordinarily stupid. Geno's career as a starter was ruined, in part, because of that. Also, the "no talent around him" argument is compelling, but couldn't the same argument be made for Geno in his first and second years?. 

[Beerfish]

I always frown when a reason to think a guy is going to be good is that every one else around him his bad, not that he is good.

If you want to convince me this guy is a real prospect to be a long time starter show me highlights of him doing something special, not of his team mates screwing up royally.

Kellen Clemens had no weapons and had the likes of Adrian Clark and Anthony Clement blocking for him, he must have been really good.

One of the big issues I have with the Jets draft is that they picked this guy with the eye of having a good supporting cast for him a year or two from now when he is supposed to be a starter and then almost ignored the oline and Wr weapons other than late rounders.

[southparkcpa]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

you have to wonder why so many other scouts were turned off by this when there are clear reasons why his play regressed.  i guess there's just such a fear of taking a qb high in the draft when there's bad tape, that's how you can lose your job.  

Well..these same scouts didnt draft Tom Brady or Russel Wilson either.  So...you gotta take a shot every now and then.

Based on our track record, I am totally kool with drafting a QB EVERY year until we find one.

2nd rounds picks last few years...  Amaro, Devin Smith, Geno, Hill, Ellis, Ducasse, 

We havent exactly lit up the board with our 2nds so this QB, IMO, is fine.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, southparkcpa said:

Well..these same scouts didnt draft Tom Brady or Russel Wilson either.  So...you gotta take a shot every now and then.

Based on our track record, I am totally kool with drafting a QB EVERY year until we find one.

2nd rounds picks last few years...  Amaro, Devin Smith, Geno, Hill, Ellis, Ducasse, 

We havent exactly lit up the board with our 2nds so this QB, IMO, is fine.

 

 

 

 

 

Uh, excuse me. Tom Brady had a 16:6 TD:INT ratio in the pac 10 the year before getting drafted, so I think that is a poor comparison. 

[Augustiniak]

11 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Well..these same scouts didnt draft Tom Brady or Russel Wilson either.  So...you gotta take a shot every now and then.

Based on our track record, I am totally kool with drafting a QB EVERY year until we find one.

2nd rounds picks last few years...  Amaro, Devin Smith, Geno, Hill, Ellis, Ducasse, 

We havent exactly lit up the board with our 2nds so this QB, IMO, is fine.

 

 

 

 

 

help me out - who is ellis?  

[Sperm Edwards]

BTW, #7 up top is iffy team failure. In the NFL you expect that to be caught, and probably from his 19 yr old soph WR as well. But the throw was behind Godwin, who also needed to slow up as the ball was arriving, just to be able to attempt a play behind him. The throw is at least a full yard off. Now granted, it's downfield and it's not the biggest window, and Godwin did get 2 hands on it, but it would have been a better catch than throw had it been completed, adjusting for the ball mid-air. A strike throw and Godwin doesn't have to slow up or reach behind him, and maybe it's even a TD. Maybe. Should have been caught, but it wasn't a particularly good throw anyway.

[Jetster]

I don't know what it is but I've just got this feeling that Hackenberg is the luckiest thing to happen for the Jets in a really long time. I'm positive that had Bill Obrien stayed at Penn State, offense stayed the same, ect. That Christian Hackenberg would have been picked right up there in the top 10 this year. 

Watching these breakdowns of plays it's a wonder this kid made it out alive without having to have major surgery. Tom Brady see ghosts when the pass rush is terrorizing him. 103 sacks it's mind boggling. There is tape of complete whiffs, where he doesn't even get to set up before he's crushed.

Bad Oline, bad receivers, bland generic easy to figure out (by the defense) offense. But here's what I really love...he NEVER QUIT!, he never got up & pointed fingers, he never made excuses. Even during his Q & A with Gruden, when Gruden talks about his footwork & why he changed his foot, he just says, "I was told to change". Just stated a fact. Gruden was perplexed & tried to get him to use all this, including the hits he took to use them as excuses but he didn't bite. You could tell Gruden loved it. Gruden also was really impressed with Hackenbergs knowledge of the game. He even had a funny sh*t eating grin when Hackenberg went to the chalkboard & just nailed it. Just the fact that we have 2 big strong young guys that can fling the football in Petty & Hackenberg has me excited to see the preseason games. Jet fans deserve to have one of these guys turn into a franchise QB.

[bostonmajet]

I really wanted the Jets to like Lynch, but clearly that didn't (at least at #20); The thing about Hack is his mental toughness; he took an emotional beating for the month before the draft - took it well and didn't make excuses or throw anyone under the bus. This kid clearly had a reason to make excuses and could have just sulked. I think that is what the Jets liked about him. Playing in NYC can be hard; too many distractions, touch media.

I just don't think Lynch was mature enough for them. I hope the FO gets lucky on this one.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Jetster said:

I don't know what it is but I've just got this feeling that Hackenberg is the luckiest thing to happen for the Jets in a really long time. I'm positive that had Bill Obrien stayed at Penn State, offense stayed the same, ect. That Christian Hackenberg would have been picked right up there in the top 10 this year. 

Watching these breakdowns of plays it's a wonder this kid made it out alive without having to have major surgery. Tom Brady see ghosts when the pass rush is terrorizing him. 103 sacks it's mind boggling. There is tape of complete whiffs, where he doesn't even get to set up before he's crushed.

Bad Oline, bad receivers, bland generic easy to figure out (by the defense) offense. But here's what I really love...he NEVER QUIT!, he never got up & pointed fingers, he never made excuses. Even during his Q & A with Gruden, when Gruden talks about his footwork & why he changed his foot, he just says, "I was told to change". Just stated a fact. Gruden was perplexed & tried to get him to use all this, including the hits he took to use them as excuses but he didn't bite. You could tell Gruden loved it. Gruden also was really impressed with Hackenbergs knowledge of the game. He even had a funny sh*t eating grin when Hackenberg went to the chalkboard & just nailed it. Just the fact that we have 2 big strong young guys that can fling the football in Petty & Hackenberg has me excited to see the preseason games. Jet fans deserve to have one of these guys turn into a franchise QB.

one thing about the qbs mccags has drafted, is that they have the prototypical size and arm strength.  these guys are both physically superior to sanchez and geno and just about any qb drafted by the jets in recent memory except ainge.  

[Jetster]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

one thing about the qbs mccags has drafted, is that they have the prototypical size and arm strength.  these guys are both physically superior to sanchez and geno and just about any qb drafted by the jets in recent memory except ainge.  

I agree, and they seem to be guys that can command a huddle. Word has been that Petty works very hard and is smart too. I loved Fitz chutzpah but I hated how weak he is throwing the ball. He really has to wind up & stretch out to get any zip on the ball. Even Geno can get the ball with a flick of the wrist to areas that Fitz has to set his feet & let it rip. Rex has already proven he knows how to take away much of the field from Fitz. Can't believe Rex has never lost to him.

[Colgateman]

36 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

one clear need for the jets next year is a big wr to eventually replace marshall.  that and a stud OT.  maybe next season will finally, finally be the year offense dominates the draft.

We already got peake

[Jetster]

8 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

I really wanted the Jets to like Lynch, but clearly that didn't (at least at #20); The thing about Hack is his mental toughness; he took an emotional beating for the month before the draft - took it well and didn't make excuses or throw anyone under the bus. This kid clearly had a reason to make excuses and could have just sulked. I think that is what the Jets liked about him. Playing in NYC can be hard; too many distractions, touch media.

I just don't think Lynch was mature enough for them. I hope the FO gets lucky on this one.

Hackenberg>Geno 

Polar opposites when it comes to sulking,lol. I still think Geno will become a decent QB when he goes to another team, I know many people disagree but I don't think he had a prayer playing as a rookie under Rex & Marty and Hill, Gates, Nelson, hamstrung Decker & a rookie TE in 2014. He didn't have the team around him Sanchez had in 2009 & 2010, that's for damn sure.

[rex-n-effect]

It's easy to see why Hackenberg wasn't considered a better pick by many scouts:

1. He looked pretty bad those last two years.

2. Stats were pretty bad as well.

3. He developed a lot of bad habits the last two years.

It's a definite gamble on a QB who might have been just as bad without the team problems. Even if he would have been a top 10 pick with a better team it doesn't change that he has already spent two years developing bad habits that now have to be broken. Not all QBs easily break bad habits, especially when they develop from getting beat to sh*t in the pocket. (E.g. Sanchez's footwork got so much worse with Hunter acting as a sieve and it never even came back to his rookie year, let alone improve.) So hopefully that is something he has and is working on in the offseason. 

[BowlesMovement]

Just now, rex-n-effect said:

It's easy to see why Hackenberg wasn't considered a better pick by many scouts:

1. He looked pretty bad those last two years.

2. Stats were pretty bad as well.

3. He developed a lot of bad habits the last two years.

It's a definite gamble on a QB who might have been just as bad without the team problems. Even if he would have been a top 10 pick with a better team it doesn't change that he has already spent two years developing bad habits that now have to be broken. Not all QBs easily break bad habits, especially when they develop from getting beat to sh*t in the pocket. (E.g. Sanchez's footwork got so much worse with Hunter acting as a sieve and it never even came back to his rookie year, let alone improve.) So hopefully that is something he has and is working on in the offseason. 

All this is fair, which is why he was a late 2nd round pick, given his physical and mental ability.

[RoadFan]

I don't read much into analysis that only shows positives, negative, or excuses in this case.   They are worthless.  I am sure someone could post multiple videos of Hack overthrowing open WRs by 3 steps, flinging the ball recklessly into triple coverage,  taking unnecessary sacks, not seeing open WRs, etc.

I subscribe to the theory that the really good to great QBs raise the level of play around them.  I believe Goff also had inferior talent around him, admittedly not quite as bad as Penn State, but still played mostly good football.  Something Hack cannot say.

And if the Jets truly wanted Hack, why were they so desperate to trade up to #1, #2, or even for Tunsil?  A trade up for Tunsil surely would've cost them the 2nd rounder they used to select Hack.

 

 

 

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Isn't this the same exact argument we've been having about every single sh*tty quarterback that the Jets have had since Vinny? Weaponz?

Excited for five years from now, when Hackenberg is Assistant Quality Control Intern at whatever bumble**** FCS program O'Brien is OCing and Pac is still posting 600-word manifestos about how we wasted his upside.