Scouting Report: Christian Hackenberg- (Team Failure)

[RutgersJetFan]

23 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Excited for five years from now, when Hackenberg is Assistant Quality Control Intern at whatever bumble**** FCS program O'Brien is OCing and Pac is still posting 600-word manifestos about how we wasted his upside.

Seriously. Connery's prom queen line in The Rock might be the realest sh*t ever said. Football players play. What the **** are we talking about here? 

[JETSfaninNE]

52 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

It's easy to see why Hackenberg wasn't considered a better pick by many scouts:

1. He looked pretty bad those last two years.

2. Stats were pretty bad as well.

3. He developed a lot of bad habits the last two years.

It's a definite gamble on a QB who might have been just as bad without the team problems. Even if he would have been a top 10 pick with a better team it doesn't change that he has already spent two years developing bad habits that now have to be broken. Not all QBs easily break bad habits, especially when they develop from getting beat to sh*t in the pocket. (E.g. Sanchez's footwork got so much worse with Hunter acting as a sieve and it never even came back to his rookie year, let alone improve.) So hopefully that is something he has and is working on in the offseason. 

The good thing and what I think makes this easier is the fact that he did all the RIGHT things originally and then was coached to wrong things.  So to me, the fact that he had been doing it right originally should make for an easier and faster transition back to the correct habits.  This would be much harder if he had always been coached the bad habits from the beginning.  But the Jets only need to erase 2 years of bad coaching.  I won't be the least bit surprised if by preseason game 1 Hack had corrected the footwork and his accuracy gets a ton better.  He'll then just need to work on the touch passes.

[dbatesman]

5 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Seriously. Connery's prom queen line in The Rock might be the realest sh*t ever said. Football players play. What the **** are we talking about here? 

(Team Failure), same as always.

[JETSfaninNE]

40 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

I don't read much into analysis that only shows positives, negative, or excuses in this case.   They are worthless.  I am sure someone could post multiple videos of Hack overthrowing open WRs by 3 steps, flinging the ball recklessly into triple coverage,  taking unnecessary sacks, not seeing open WRs, etc.

I subscribe to the theory that the really good to great QBs raise the level of play around them.  I believe Goff also had inferior talent around him, admittedly not quite as bad as Penn State, but still played mostly good football.  Something Hack cannot say.

And if the Jets truly wanted Hack, why were they so desperate to trade up to #1, #2, or even for Tunsil?  A trade up for Tunsil surely would've cost them the 2nd rounder they used to select Hack.

 

 

 

I think I read they inquired about #1 overall for Goff.  That was the #1 QB on their board.  Don't think they had much of any interest in Wentz and we know they didn't in Lynch.  Moving up for Tunsil may not have had any impact on getting Hackenberg still in the 2nd.  We don't know what was offered, Mo might have been part of the deal, we just have no idea.  Maybe the 2nd was part of it and the reason teh Jets didn't move up for him b/c they wanted Hack with the 2nd.

[BowlesMovement]

2 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Isn't this the same exact argument we've been having about every single sh*tty quarterback that the Jets have had since Vinny? Weaponz?

Unless you get the first overall pick, in a year with a cant miss QB prospect available, this is what your going to deal with in the draft. Had they gone with Lynch, he was said to be dumb, and he comes from a college spread offense. These are not excuses, they are context around his stats and his results. Its really no different than saying you need to put context around Geno's gaudy college stats because he played in a spread offense. Odds are Hackenberg will not be a franchise QB, but he was a late 2nd round draft pick, there are no prospects without major question marks at that point in the draft.

[Augustiniak]

6 minutes ago, JETSfaninNE said:

I think I read they inquired about #1 overall for Goff.  That was the #1 QB on their board.  Don't think they had much of any interest in Wentz and we know they didn't in Lynch.  Moving up for Tunsil may not have had any impact on getting Hackenberg still in the 2nd.  We don't know what was offered, Mo might have been part of the deal, we just have no idea.  Maybe the 2nd was part of it and the reason teh Jets didn't move up for him b/c they wanted Hack with the 2nd.

mccags tries to get the most value for his picks.  if he sees tunsil dropping he'll inquire what it will take to move up.  that doesn't mean he's giving up a 2nd and 3rd, it means' he's weighing the values of every scenario.  mccags made it clear they had lee rated high on their boards but if dallas had given up their 2nd rounder and 3rd rounder this year and a 2nd rounder next year, well, then i think he trades back and the jets don't get lee.  

[JETSfaninNE]

11 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

mccags tries to get the most value for his picks.  if he sees tunsil dropping he'll inquire what it will take to move up.  that doesn't mean he's giving up a 2nd and 3rd, it means' he's weighing the values of every scenario.  mccags made it clear they had lee rated high on their boards but if dallas had given up their 2nd rounder and 3rd rounder this year and a 2nd rounder next year, well, then i think he trades back and the jets don't get lee.  

Dallas was rumored to have tried giving up the 2nd and 3rd rd pick to move up to 20 to get Lynch.  I think Macc would have taken the deal if Lee wasn't there.  It seems they were super high on him and didn't think he would fall to them at 20.  If he didn't fall to 20, Macc makes the trade with Jerry I think.

[carlito1171]

2 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

one clear need for the jets next year is a big wr to eventually replace marshall.  that and a stud OT.  maybe next season will finally, finally be the year offense dominates the draft.

Possibly....

Or we could go CB with an Aging Revis

Or ILB to replace Harris

 

[neckdemon]

2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I always frown when a reason to think a guy is going to be good is that every one else around him his bad, not that he is good.

If you want to convince me this guy is a real prospect to be a long time starter show me highlights of him doing something special, not of his team mates screwing up royally.

Kellen Clemens had no weapons and had the likes of Adrian Clark and Anthony Clement blocking for him, he must have been really good.

One of the big issues I have with the Jets draft is that they picked this guy with the eye of having a good supporting cast for him a year or two from now when he is supposed to be a starter and then almost ignored the oline and Wr weapons other than late rounders.

the first one is probably better because it was in o'briens offense

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Isn't this the same exact argument we've been having about every single sh*tty quarterback that the Jets have had since Vinny? Weaponz?

Those excuse packages were far different and didn't contain gifs.

[JetBlue]

1 hour ago, RoadFan said:

I don't read much into analysis that only shows positives, negative, or excuses in this case.   They are worthless.  I am sure someone could post multiple videos of Hack overthrowing open WRs by 3 steps, flinging the ball recklessly into triple coverage,  taking unnecessary sacks, not seeing open WRs, etc.

I subscribe to the theory that the really good to great QBs raise the level of play around them.  I believe Goff also had inferior talent around him, admittedly not quite as bad as Penn State, but still played mostly good football.  Something Hack cannot say.

And if the Jets truly wanted Hack, why were they so desperate to trade up to #1, #2, or even for Tunsil?  A trade up for Tunsil surely would've cost them the 2nd rounder they used to select Hack.

 

 

 

If you view this in a vacuum than I see your point but if you take this in context of his entire 3 years at Penn State, it comes into clearer focus.  I mean did Goff have a MAJOR scandal and the loss of a lot of top players as well as sanctions against his school?  Did his coach leave after his first year and new guy come in with a totally different offense that did not play to his strengths?  You may view these comments as excuses but the reality is they are the facts.  Yet, while he clearly developed some poor habits and suffered with his accuracy, he still showed glimpses of what he could be.  If you look at his freshman year, you have a clearer picture of his potential; not too many 18 year old kids can run a pro style offense, including calling audibles, calling the plays etc.  yet that is exactly what he was doing.   The other factor, (again you may choose to dismiss too) is he could have transferred out.  He had Nick Saban calling him day and night to transfer and had he done so, he might have competed for a national championship and or been the first or second quarterback taken this year.   Yet, he choose to stay and stick it out; that really shows me something in terms of his character.  

I don/t buy the whole "if they really wanted him" argument; the bottom line is they drafted him, and if you believe a lot of the folks on this board, it was a round or two, too soon. (Don't agree with that).  

And finally there is NO WAY Goff or any other quarterback drafted this year played behind a more porous offense line than Hackenberg.  I don't give a crap who you are, if you get sacked 103 times, that is going to have an effect you.  

[T0mShane]

I agree. You give Hackenberg the right coaching and surround him with the right talent, I have no doubt he can be a high-end starter in the league for a long time. He has all the tools, he just needs a better environment.

[T0mShane]

I actually don't believe any of my above post. I just put it there to see if it'd get 10+ likes from the gerbils. 

[Rexorcism]

cool thing is that was Daron Lee flying in for the sack...blazing speed!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[slats]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I actually don't believe any of my above post. I just put it there to see if it'd get 10+ likes from the gerbils. 

So you're saying he's no Matt Leinart, then?

[JetBlue]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

I agree. You give Hackenberg the right coaching and surround him with the right talent, I have no doubt he can be a high-end starter in the league for a long time. He has all the tools, he just needs a better environment.

Plus he has the right ATTITUDE.  As much as we talk about Genos lack of leadership and poor attitude you could call Hackenberg the "Anti-Geno" when it comes to those areas. Geno came into the league with a sense of entitlement, he was pissed that he went in the 2nd round and fired his agent; the rest we know ad nauseum.   Hackenberg on the other hand went from being projected as the top quarterback to some "experts" thinking he shouldn't even have been drafted!! (They are going to look real stupid in a couple of years, marke my words....)  Yet this guy is as humble as they come.  He is very confident and it shows but it does'n't come off as cockiness.   His work ethic alone is going to win him a lot of friends in that locker room. 

 

[JetBlue]

1 hour ago, JETSfaninNE said:

The good thing and what I think makes this easier is the fact that he did all the RIGHT things originally and then was coached to wrong things.  So to me, the fact that he had been doing it right originally should make for an easier and faster transition back to the correct habits.  This would be much harder if he had always been coached the bad habits from the beginning.  But the Jets only need to erase 2 years of bad coaching.  I won't be the least bit surprised if by preseason game 1 Hack had corrected the footwork and his accuracy gets a ton better.  He'll then just need to work on the touch passes.

Great point, plus he KNOWS he can do it because he did it before.  That also makes it easier on a mental level; he doesn't have to try and convince himself because all he has to do is look at the film of his freshman year. 

[nyjbuddy]

Anyone know why the Houston Texans didn't select Hackenberg before the Jets?  They had the pick right before the Jets, Bill O'Brien coached him (first hand experience with him), and they have Tom Savage and Brandon Weeden as their back-ups.  Are they all-in on Osweiler and don't feel like they needed another possible starting QB?  Maybe O'Brien and Hackenberg didn't get along?

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, BowlesMovement said:

Unless you get the first overall pick, in a year with a cant miss QB prospect available, this is what your going to deal with in the draft. Had they gone with Lynch, he was said to be dumb, and he comes from a college spread offense. These are not excuses, they are context around his stats and his results. Its really no different than saying you need to put context around Geno's gaudy college stats because he played in a spread offense. Odds are Hackenberg will not be a franchise QB, but he was a late 2nd round draft pick, there are no prospects without major question marks at that point in the draft.

I have no qualms with that. No problem with selecting Hackenberg either, contrary to what my cycloptic colleagues argue. I just can't get behind the argument that we make for every single dude that gets under center that he'd simply be great if it weren't for the other guys. He'd complete this throw or rank this high if it weren't for the line, the receivers, the coaches, the wind, the fans booing him, his dog dying, and his childhood. We're going on 20 years of this same recycled thing on like 6 guys now. Look! Gifs that show he made a good throw that one time! Enough already. 

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, nyjbuddy said:

Anyone know why the Houston Texans didn't select Hackenberg before the Jets?  They had the pick right before the Jets, Bill O'Brien coached him (first hand experience with him), and they have Tom Savage and Brandon Weeden as their back-ups.  Are they all-in on Osweiler and don't feel like they needed another possible starting QB?  Maybe O'Brien and Hackenberg didn't get along?

A 4 year $72M contract, with $37M guaranteed, says they're all in on Osweiler. Their 2nd round pick is for putting talent on the team around him, not to draft faux competition.

The question you should be asking is, with Hackenberg coming out, why did O'Brien take such a huge risk on Osweiler?

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I have no qualms with that. No problem with selecting Hackenberg either, contrary to what my cycloptic colleagues argue. I just can't get behind the argument that we make for every single dude that gets under center that he'd simply be great if it weren't for the other guys. He'd complete this throw or rank this high if it weren't for the line, the receivers, the coaches, the wind, the fans booing him, his dog dying, and his childhood. We're going on 20 years of this same recycled thing on like 6 guys now. Look! Gifs that show he made a good throw that one time! Enough already. 

You shouldn't look a Gif horse in the mouth.

[RutgersJetFan]

56 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Those excuse packages were far different and didn't contain gifs.

"Please see this YouTube highlight reel set to my buddy's mixtape. Not only is the music straight fire flames, but you'll see that several throws during his freshman year are scientific evidence that he clearly will be consistently successful at the professional level." 

[RutgersJetFan]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

You shouldn't look a Gif horse in the mouth.

My gifs are cheeky and fun. These gifs are cruel and tragic.

[Lupz27]

1 hour ago, JETSfaninNE said:

Dallas was rumored to have tried giving up the 2nd and 3rd rd pick to move up to 20 to get Lynch.  I think Macc would have taken the deal if Lee wasn't there.  It seems they were super high on him and didn't think he would fall to them at 20.  If he didn't fall to 20, Macc makes the trade with Jerry I think.

Really wish they made that trade, and took Jack, and Hack, and used the extra 3rd on someone like K Drake.

[Jetster]

57 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I actually don't believe any of my above post. I just put it there to see if it'd get 10+ likes from the gerbils. 

You'll be wearing a Hackenberg jersey in 2017. And we all want to see pictures.

[flgreen]

53 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Plus he has the right ATTITUDE.  As much as we talk about Genos lack of leadership and poor attitude you could call Hackenberg the "Anti-Geno" when it comes to those areas. Geno came into the league with a sense of entitlement, he was pissed that he went in the 2nd round and fired his agent; the rest we know ad nauseum.   Hackenberg on the other hand went from being projected as the top quarterback to some "experts" thinking he shouldn't even have been drafted!! (They are going to look real stupid in a couple of years, marke my words....)  Yet this guy is as humble as they come.  He is very confident and it shows but it does'n't come off as cockiness.   His work ethic alone is going to win him a lot of friends in that locker room. 

 

 

[Augustiniak]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

A 4 year $72M contract, with $37M guaranteed, says they're all in on Osweiler. Their 2nd round pick is for putting talent on the team around him, not to draft faux competition.

The question you should be asking is, with Hackenberg coming out, why did O'Brien take such a huge risk on Osweiler?

b/c o'brien is not the general manager and they have a win now team.  how many more years do you think watt is going to be at this level?  

[Villain The Foe]

12 hours ago, JetNation said:

The third part of our Hackenberg scouting report deals with the lack of talent/ability around the QB in his time at PSU.

1)

Is the RG blind?  He has absolutely no one to block, and all but moves right out of the way from the blitzing line backer.   The only thing he does is extend his arm out like he was asking for a high five as the line backer flies right by.  Hackenberg is in the process of moving from his first read to second read when he gets taken out.  This play is from his second year there, the start of the James Franklin era, and therefore notice the absolute lack of anyone being open on this play.  This is a play where the offensive line holds back the rush, allowing someone to wriggle free, but Hackenberg doesn’t get that shot at all.   The guy making the sack is Jets first round pick Darron Lee.

2)

Different RG, similar result.  In this case, Michigan State sends a dual LB blitz alas there are six players are going after the QB.  Half of those rushers reach the QB as if they were running through air.  The RG ignores all of them to actually double team the one rusher that was actually properly blocked.  As you see from the receivers running, none of them were running hot routes, so there is nowhere to throw this ball.  This is a sack you can’t blame on Hackenberg, because he has absolutely no shot at turning this into a good play.  By the time he reaches the top of his drop back, he’s toast.

3)

This is an issue that is far too familiar to Jet fans, mainly from the likes of Stephen Hill.  The QB is scrambling for his life and running to the side.  Dancing tango with the CB in the same spot isn’t going make you open.  This is where a fundamentally sound WR runs across the field away from the CB or up the field to try and provide the QB with any kind of target.  Unfortunately, this WR stands right there hugging the CB, and therefore Hackenberg has nowhere to throw this ball.  Come back for the pass, do anything.  This play shows the rawness of the WRs on the roster.

4)

Just a flat out drop by the WR, no way around it.  The pass is perfectly throw, but flat out dropped.  This should have been a first down, but instead goes down as an incomplete pass.  In the background, fan favorite RG is doing a good job blocking air again.

5)

This is an absolute gem of a throw, that is dropped.  Hackenberg rolls out from the pocket, and throws an absolute laser right to the hands of the diving WR.  Replays from other angles show that the ball hit him perfectly in the hand, yet he still drops the pass.  The ball is placed where the WR is the only one that has a shot at the pass, but it’s another dropped pass.

6)

This is somewhat of a touch catch in traffic, but most decent WRs this side of Clyde Gates make this catch. In another replay, this pass also hits him perfectly in his hands, and yet is still dropped.  Hackenberg steps up in the pocket and delivers a good pass between two defenders, but the drop really hurts him here.

7)

This is another example where Hackenberg is throwing while being hit, but places the ball well for his WR to catch, but he drops the pass.

8)

This is a blitz by the Eagles from the right side, and Hackenberg makes a bad throw.  This is still a bad play by the TE, because that pass is still catch-able, but this one has plenty of fault to go around.  For one, Hackenberg needs to learn to put touch on his short throws so they are easier to catch for his receivers.  The players running out there need to actually catch passes that are hitting them in both hands.  Also, our favorite right guard faces a touch challenge here.  There are three players rushing with only two lineman to that side.  So it was a losing proposition, thus he picked one rusher and focused on him, and was in the process of losing.

Overall, the talent level at Penn State around Hackenberg was atrocious.  The offensive line play was horrible, especially from the right side.  The receivers were raw dropping catch-able passes, while showing raw route running skills.

Please be sure to check out Part 1 (Pros), Part 2 (Cons), and Part 3 (Summary).

 

Click here to read the full story...

We can do a similar breakdown for Geno Smith pre-Macc era. Maybe this is why he's not as fearful if Geno starts. It was a great example with Stephen Hill. This is a guy who Geno had to deal with among others. 

 

Its good to know that we have a GM that can see through all of the emotion and bullcrap in order to see not just a players talent/limitation but to clearly see when a guy is simply in a bad situation. 

[Lupz27]

1 hour ago, neckdemon said:

the first one is probably better because it was in o'briens offense

The one thing I really love that I haven't seen mentioned yet is he always has 2 hands on the ball, and doesn't hold it out like a loaf of bread alla Geno, and Sanchez, that's a huge plus.

[FloridaJetsFan]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Uh, excuse me. Tom Brady had a 16:6 TD:INT ratio in the pac 10 the year before getting drafted, so I think that is a poor comparison. 

Uh, excuse me. When did Michigan join the Pac 10?

[Sperm Edwards]

17 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

b/c o'brien is not the general manager and they have a win now team.  how many more years do you think watt is going to be at this level?  

They don't have any more of a win-now team than we do IMO.

[Sperm Edwards]

15 minutes ago, FloridaJetsFan said:

Uh, excuse me. When did Michigan join the Pac 10?

In my imagination lol. Big 10 Pac 10, same thing .

[Augustiniak]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

They don't have any more of a win-now team than we do IMO.

and that's why they overpaid for a qb.  

[jetsfan_toronto_canada]

4 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Well..these same scouts didnt draft Tom Brady or Russel Wilson either.  So...you gotta take a shot every now and then.

Based on our track record, I am totally kool with drafting a QB EVERY year until we find one.

2nd rounds picks last few years...  Amaro, Devin Smith, Geno, Hill, Ellis, Ducasse, 

We havent exactly lit up the board with our 2nds so this QB, IMO, is fine.

I've been saying this for a while - We really haven't hit in the second round since David harris (2007), Vlad, Hill, Geno, Jace, Devon.  If we're going to throw away picks why not throw darts at QBs? I realize the movie for Devon Smith and Jace Amaro hasn't been released yet, but the trailer looks sh*tty.

[JETSfaninNE]

44 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Really wish they made that trade, and took Jack, and Hack, and used the extra 3rd on someone like K Drake.

Easier said then done though.  We have no idea how the domino effect of Lynch going 20th to the cowboys would have shaken out the rest of the draft.