2016 QB: If No Fitz, The Position MUST be Open Competition

[Sperm Edwards]

36 minutes ago, JiF said:

Nothing about Bowles coaching style has led me to believe there are any open competitions on the roster.  

You're either in or you're out.  Production doesnt seem to matter. 

I would say I saw one exception, that being Coples. But then the only LBers on the roster were Coples, Pace, Maultin, and technically Reilly (who he did give some playing time to early-on). Then with Coples showing what he was worth as a LB for the 3rd time in a row, the injury risk must have come into play. Namely, if he gets injured then his $8M for 2016 would've become guaranteed. So while I do think Bowles disliked him as a player, I also think there was some GM influence.

On the one hand, it seems he went with Coples at the beginning of the season because he was the only one with starting experience and it's not like he has no talent. On the other hand, for him to take away his playing time with no obvious replacement, Bowles must have really wanted him off the field.

[New York Mick]

38 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Might make sense to see what we have though.  

True but it would be nice to have a vet better then Geno. 

[JetBlue]

1 hour ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

It's a throwaway year if the QB they decide to start is near the bottom in every category of every measure in his career. This isn't a Broncos defense, or even close. It will be a good defense and it will keep the team in games, but they can't survive a poor decision making, turnover prone quarterback. Also, I always root for this team, please don't get that twisted. Being critical of the team is no different than being critical of anything else you love.

Geno SHOULD outplay Petty. That's not the point. The point is to make this Jets team better long term. Starting Geno Smith does not accomplish that. This team can't make the playoffs with him at the helm and if that's the case, turn the team over to Petty and see what he can do. If he stinks, Hackenberg is up next. If he stinks, then time to draft another QB in 2017. That's how this works.

I would disagree with our assessment.  Letting Petty and Hack continue their development is what is going to make the team better long term. If Petty cannot beat out Geno, why on earth should he start ahead of him?? That makes absolutely no sense to anyone but you.  

[Beerfish]

The jets will not go into the season without bringing in some vet even if it is not Fitz, they'll trade if necessary.

[CrazyCarl40]

2 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

I would disagree with our assessment.  Letting Petty and Hack continue their development is what is going to make the team better long term. If Petty cannot beat out Geno, why on earth should he start ahead of him?? That makes absolutely no sense to anyone but you.  

You can only protect young QBs so long. If Petty isn't ready by the beginning of his second season, he likely will never be. I'd rather the Jets play him and see what he has. There's only so much "developing" you can do. Either the guy has it or he doesn't.

The devil you know or the devil you don't? That's what it comes down to.

[JetBlue]

5 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

You can only protect young QBs so long. If Petty isn't ready by the beginning of his second season, he likely will never be. I'd rather the Jets play him and see what he has. There's only so much "developing" you can do. Either the guy has it or he doesn't.

The devil you know or the devil you don't? That's what it comes down to.

I hear you but if it is all about competition and being objective, there is no way you sit Geno if he outplays Petty, unless it is close, in which case I can see your point. 

[hawk]

I would want an open competition, even if Fitz is resigned.  JMO

If the Jets ever find a true franchise guy, great, but until then, open competition so the best player plays.

[CrazyCarl40]

Just now, JetBlue said:

I hear you but if it is all about competition and being objective, there is no way you sit Geno if he outplays Petty, unless it is close, in which case I can see your point. 

Maye you start Geno the first two or three games, go 0-3 and then make the switch when the fans are howling. I just don't see the point. Start Geno and don't win and fans will complain. Start Petty and don't win, fans will understand.

[JetBlue]

15 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Maye you start Geno the first two or three games, go 0-3 and then make the switch when the fans are howling. I just don't see the point. Start Geno and don't win and fans will complain. Start Petty and don't win, fans will understand.

But you just said it was a throw a way season.  Btw the coaches don't make decisions based whether the fans will complain or not; they will do what they feel is best for the franchise both short and long term.   To use the tired expression it is most likely given the real possibility of no Fitz, that Geno gives the team the best chance to win; Petty is the back up and Hackenberg does not see the field unless either both of them get hurt or he so outplays them in camp that he either starts or is the back up.  

[rex-n-effect]

No. The coaching staff should look at the long term success of the team rather than treat QB as a BPA position for 2016. 

If Hackenberg is the best option right now but the coaching staff feels sitting a year or part of the year is in the team's long term best interests then that is what they should do. Same for Petty. 

Geno is likely not the long term answer on this team but they should consider him within the framework of the long term success of the team as well. 

 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Factually questionable as usual.

Geno was handed the #1 job due only to Sanchez's injury (2013), retained (despite being benched) what he was handed due to no competition from a disinterested Vick (2014) and then failed to win the job (2015) because he got beat up by his own teammate over $600 and whelching on a promise.  Reportedly being ahead is not winning a job.

if he wins the job, in a fair and open competition, in 2016, ti will be the first time he does so.

Really?  How did Fitz earn it.  Tell us, should be interesting.  Give us anything other than IK punched out the starting QB and broke his jaw.  If you're going to question the factuality of a statement at least come back with something somewhat factual.  Westhoff just the other day was talking about how shltty and lost Fitz looked, how much worse than Geno he was playing and how he had no chance of winning the starting job when Geno got popped.  Every reporter said Fitz looked like shlt in camp and Geno had gone something like 14 practices without a INT.  YOU argued incessantly that until Geno did it in a game it was all nonsense talk.  Youre the one with an anti Geno agenda.  Its fine, you just refuse to admit it

Im not talking Vick or any other year.  The statement was simple.  For all your comments about having to win the job, how the Jets never have a competition your boy, your #2 all time Jets QB got the job by default due to injury.  A job he wasnt getting if not for IK.  Not from winning the job. 

Nothing questionable about those facts.  Other than you claiming they're not true because they contradict your narrative.

[Big Blocker]

30 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

No. The coaching staff should look at the long term success of the team rather than treat QB as a BPA position for 2016. 

If Hackenberg is the best option right now but the coaching staff feels sitting a year or part of the year is in the team's long term best interests then that is what they should do. Same for Petty. 

Geno is likely not the long term answer on this team but they should consider him within the framework of the long term success of the team as well. 

 

I suppose if I thought Smith was likely to be effective in real games I might feel differently.  But some marginally better showing in camp imo does not override the fact that in the medium to long term the Jets will see no benefit in putting Smith in there.

If the Jets are certain that neither Petty nor Hackenberg will be ready and able to start, they need to redouble their efforts to get a vet on the roster.

[Jet Nut]

7 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

I suppose if I thought Smith was likely to be effective in real games I might feel differently.  But some marginally better showing in camp imo does not override the fact that in the medium to long term the Jets will see no benefit in putting Smith in there.

If the Jets are certain that neither Petty nor Hackenberg will be ready and able to start, they need to redouble their efforts to get a vet on the roster.

Problem with all of this is what veteran QB other than Fitz are you going to bring in here thats going to do appreciably better than Smith in the short term?  Who isnt going to cost money and picks to bring here for one season????

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Really?  How did Fitz earn it.  Tell us, should be interesting.

His didn't, he inherited it due to Geno's injury terminating any possibility of a continued competition.

Doesn't change the fact that Geno did not win the job.  To win it, you actually have to NOT get beaten up by your own teammate so badly you're unable to play for weeks afterwards.

You can make yourself feel better repeating the "he was winning it!" mantra, but he didn't win it.  He got beat up instead.  

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Give us anything other than IK punched out the starting QB and broke his jaw.

I don't have to.  That's what happened.  Anything else is speculation and projection.

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 If you're going to question the factuality of a statement at least come back with something somewhat factual.

Did Geno start week 1?  Guess he didn't win the job then.

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Westhoff just the other day was talking about how shltty and lost Fitz looked, how much worse than Geno he was playing and how he had no chance of winning the starting job when Geno got popped.

The Geno fans like yourself must REALLY feel bad, think how awesome we'd have been if only Geno had started, right?  Shame he didn't win the job due to injury, and never started a game then, isn't it?

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YOU argued incessantly that until Geno did it in a game it was all nonsense talk.

Amazing, I know, to want our QB to do well in regular season games, right?

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Youre the one with an anti Geno agenda.  Its fine, you just refuse to admit it

I have a "win games" agenda.  I think Fitz is far better a choice than Geno to do that.  I have 2015 as evidence.

You?  You have "well Geno was winning in camp some reporters said....before he got beat up.......but.....but.......but......LEAVE GENO ALONE, HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY TALENT AT ALL.  He just needs a fair chance.  Again.  Third time's a charm!!!!"  /chuckle

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The statement was simple.

And factually and demonstrably inaccurate.  Geno has never won a starting QB job in his career.  "What might have been" isn't winning a job.

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For all your comments about having to win the job, how the Jets never have a competition your boy, your #2 all time Jets QB got the job by default due to injury.  A job he wasnt getting if not for IK.  Not from winning the job.

So you say.  We'll never know.  Because Geno got himself beat up.  Can't blame Fitz for that, can you?  Wait.....you probably do blame Fitz for that, lol.

You're right tho, Fitz didn't win the job either.  He was handed it, because Geno got hurt.  No one denies that.

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Nothing questionable about those facts.  Other than you claiming they're not true because they contradict your narrative.

You're right, they're not questionable, they're simply wrong.  Geno has never won a starting job in his pro career.  Nothing you've said so far has contradicted that.

[Big Blocker]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Problem with all of this is what veteran QB other than Fitz are you going to bring in here thats going to do appreciably better than Smith in the short term?  Who isnt going to cost money and picks to bring here for one season????

I can't think of a single Qb in the NFL right now I would NOT rather have than  Smith.

[Jet Nut]

7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

His didn't, he inherited it due to Geno's injury terminating any possibility of a continued competition.

Doesn't change the fact that Geno did not win the job.  To win it, you actually have to NOT get beaten up by your own teammate so badly you're unable to play for weeks afterwards.

You can make yourself feel better repeating the "he was winning it!" mantra, but he didn't win it.  He got beat up instead.  

I don't have to.  That's what happened.  Anything else is speculation and projection.

Did Geno start week 1?  Guess he didn't win the job then.

The Geno fans like yourself must REALLY feel bad, think how awesome we'd have been if only Geno had started, right?  Shame he didn't win the job due to injury, and never started a game then, isn't it?

Amazing, I know, to want our QB to do well in regular season games, right?

I have a "win games" agenda.  I think Fitz is far better a choice than Geno to do that.  I have 2015 as evidence.

You?  You have "well Geno was winning in camp some reporters said....before he got beat up.......but.....but.......but......LEAVE GENO ALONE, HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY TALENT AT ALL.  He just needs a fair chance.  Again.  Third time's a charm!!!!"  /chuckle

And factually and demonstrably inaccurate.  Geno has never won a starting QB job in his career.  "What might have been" isn't winning a job.

So you say.  We'll never know.  Because Geno got himself beat up.  Can't blame Fitz for that, can you?  Wait.....you probably do blame Fitz for that, lol.

You're right tho, Fitz didn't win the job either.  He was handed it, because Geno got hurt.  No one denies that.

You're right, they're not questionable, they're simply wrong.  Geno has never won a starting job in his pro career.  Nothing you've said so far has contradicted that.

You really need to stop with the multi quote BS.  

Your guy got the job that he never earned through play.  No, thats not wrong.  Only you will argue this until the end of time. Will try and convince all that you line of bull is right.

Its good for Fitz but not for Geno.  And you keep changing it back to Geno never won a job.  Not the point, your guy didnt win it either.

You need to stop, youre making yourself look clueless and blind

[Jet Nut]

9 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

I can't think of a single Qb in the NFL right now I would NOT rather have than  Smith.

And the one available better?

Because that was the question

[Larz]

an open competition if when you have QB's at similar levels

the jets do not have the scenario

the GM has already given the depth chart btw

 

[EM31]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

You really need to stop with the multi quote BS.  

Your guy got the job that he never earned through play.  No, thats not wrong.  Only you will argue this until the end of time. Will try and convince all that you line of bull is right.

Its good for Fitz but not for Geno.  And you keep changing it back to Geno never won a job.  Not the point, your guy didnt win it either.

You need to stop, youre making yourself look clueless and blind

But the point here was YOUR assertion that Smith did "earn it" with play.  Clearly he did not since he was named the presumptive starter even before camp began.

Anything else is subjective spin, mostly from Smith supporters about how well or how poorly they felt each was performing in the early part of camp.  To repeat in the "early part of camp" during which time Fitz was still recovering from his injury.

So to recap

Smith dd not "earn it".  He was anointed before camp began.

Nothing during the early part of camp had caused the Jets coaching staff to take away the starting job from Geno Smith so it is clear that Fitz also had not "earned it" or won the job away from the presumptive starter.

And then Geno Smith was involved in a sequence of events which led to him getting punched in the jaw by another player

The rest is history at this point.

<edited to add>

You might argue that Smith  had "earned" the job the year before by virtue of the fact that he was the incumbent starter but that is not what you implied when you said he had earned it earlier.  Any objective evaluation of Smith's record the year before would put you on even thinner ice if that is your position.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

You really need to stop with the multi quote BS.

You're seeming inabillity to read honestly isn't my issue Nut.

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Your guy got the job that he never earned through play.  No, thats not wrong.

No one said that was wrong.  Read whats written ffs.

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

 Only you will argue this until the end of time.

Apparently I won't.  And didn't.  But in case it isn;t clear, let me repeat myself one more time:

"You're right tho, Fitz didn't win the job either.  He was handed it, because Geno got hurt.  No one denies that." - Me, two posts up ffs. 

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Will try and convince all that you line of bull is right.

Really?  If you could actually read, you might realize how dumb this is.  Probably not tho.

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

And you keep changing it back to Geno never won a job.  Not the point,

Actually, it WAS my point, a point you tried to contest and failed, utterly, to do so.  

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

You need to stop, youre making yourself look clueless and blind

Lol.  

[Scoop24]

From the looks of mini camp and the emphasis in coaching I see the jets putting Coaching up Hack wouldnt surprise me if he sees the field at some point in 2016..  Bryce Petty better come out swinging cause he really could be the odd man out here . Jets clearly see a future in Hackenberg.

[EM31]

11 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

From the looks of mini camp and the emphasis in coaching I see the jets putting Coaching up Hack wouldnt surprise me if he sees the field at some point in 2016..  Bryce Petty better come out swinging cause he really could be the odd man out here . Jets clearly see a future in Hackenberg.

One of these years one of them is going to turn out to be pretty good.  Maybe the Jets can finally hit on a lottery ticket.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, EM31 said:

But the point here was YOUR assertion that Smith did "earn it" with play.  Clearly he did not since he was named the presumptive starter even before camp began.

Anything else is subjective spin, mostly from Smith supporters about how well or how poorly they felt each was performing in the early part of camp.  To repeat in the "early part of camp" during which time Fitz was still recovering from his injury.

So to recap

Smith dd not "earn it".  He was anointed before camp began.

Nothing during the early part of camp had caused the Jets coaching staff to take away the starting job from Geno Smith so it is clear that Fitz also had not "earned it" or won the job away from the presumptive starter.

And then Geno Smith was involved in a sequence of events which led to him getting punched in the jaw by another player

The rest is history at this point.

<edited to add>

You might argue that Smith  had "earned" the job the year before by virtue of the fact that he was the incumbent starter but that is not what you implied when you said he had earned it earlier.  Any objective evaluation of Smith's record the year before would put you on even thinner ice if that is your position.

Again a whole lot of nonsense to offset that Fitz never earned it.  I never, ever said Geno did.  Only that for all Wars whining that Geno didn't earn it, Fitz earned nothing.  This really has nothing to Geno actually.  Just him being a hypocrite and blind to his own argument. 

You want to argue it, twist it or bring whatever into it, my point stands.  Fitz earned nothing, won the job by default.  War can't just admit it

 

[drdetroit]

Ok, there will be open competition and Geno will start anyway 

[drdetroit]

3 hours ago, Big Blocker said:

I can't think of a single Qb in the NFL right now I would NOT rather have than  Smith.

Dude you have no idea the garbage that's out there right now

[Larz]

hey warfish

there is an old saying among GM's.....when you start making decisions for the fans, soon you will be among them......

a competition would accomplish nothing except taking reps away from geno, and he need all the reps he can get

petty was drafted as a 2-3 year project in the 4th round that could be a legit backup, and krackenberg is 21 years old an needs at least a year to learn

there is no competition

the GM has already given you the depth chart

 

[Warfish]

9 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Actually Geno had earned it and Fitz got it due to injury.

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Again a whole lot of nonsense to offset that Fitz never earned it.  I never, ever said Geno did .

Are you really this ignorant o f the things you say only 9 hours after you say it?

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Fitz earned nothing, won the job by default.  War can't just admit it

I've happily admitted that Fitz got it by injury.  Twice in my last post alone.

Let me repeat it for a third time:    "You're right tho, Fitz didn't win the job either.  He was handed it, because Geno got hurt.  No one denies that." - Me, three times now. 

Once again, your complete and utter inabillity to read while frothing about is not my failing, it's yours.

Read.  Stop slobbering.  And read.

[Gas2No99]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Are you really this ignorant o f the things you say only 9 hours after you say it?

I've happily admitted that Fitz got it by injury.  Twice in my last post alone.

Once again, you're complete and utter inabillity to read while frothing about is not my failing, it's yours.

Read.  Stop slobbering.  And read.

 

 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Are you really this ignorant o f the things you say only 9 hours after you say it?

I've happily admitted that Fitz got it by injury.  Twice in my last post alone.

Let me repeat it for a third time:    "You're right tho, Fitz didn't win the job either.  He was handed it, because Geno got hurt.  No one denies that." - Me, three times now. 

Once again, your complete and utter inabillity to read while frothing about is not my failing, it's yours.

Read.  Stop slobbering.  And read.

You dont even have a clue what youre arguing anymore.  Youre just arguing to argue.  

Stop posting, youre too much of a child to take responses without taking it personal.  I made a simple statement, Fitz didnt earn the starting job and you debated it, called in far from factual then agreed.  But with your patented circle jerk of misinformation to somehow make it into something you might be right about.  

Frothing?  Yeah, me

[greenwave81]

On May 5, 2016 at 5:54 PM, Villain The Foe said:

It should be an open competition regardless. Fitz was getting smoked by Geno during training camp, on top of the fact that 12 months ago Fitz was a backup. He didnt suddenly change into a franchise QB

Smoked? LMAO.

Fitz was coming off a broken leg, and Geno had all the reps.  Geno is a lost cause.

If we have to spend a some games this season showing that once and for all, whatever.

[joewilly12]

Open competition Geno-Petty-Hackenburg may the best QB win. 

[greenwave81]

Jesus....all this nonsense...WTF?

You play the guy who is the most ready on your roster.  There is no timeline that guarantees success or failure.  Sanchez was good enough to take us to the AFCCG his first two seasons.  He wasn't the reason why we got there, but he was the damn QB.

Flacco started game 1....Roethlisberger like game 3.  If Geno plays best, throw him out there..if Petty is the winner he can start too.  If Hack is the real deal, and shows it in camp ala his freshman season at PSU, play him.

Why does everyone have a 'proscribed timeline'?

[ljr]

4 hours ago, drdetroit said:

Dude you have no idea the garbage that's out there right now

Tim Tebow & Johnny Football are now both out of the league ... Think he's right!

[Warfish]

59 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You dont even have a clue what youre arguing anymore.  Youre just arguing to argue.  

Says the guy who in one breath says Geno earned the job, and in another angrily says he never said it.

Wake me when you can remember your own posts five minutes after you post them flip-flops.

[Gas2No99]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Says the guy who in one breath says Geno earned the job, and in another angrily says he never said it.

Wake me when you can remember your own posts five minutes after you post them flip-flops.

YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!

The TRUTH compels thee!!!!!!