PFF really has a bug up it's A$$ over Darron Lee & Jets as a whole

[JETSfaninNE]

12 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

you make it sound like it's easy to find a guy like lee in FA, but it isn't.  

We tried to sign Mark Barron but he re-signed with the Rams.  Difference with FA and Drafting, the player has no choice who they go to (unless they are Eli Manning) or how much they make when they are drafted.

[Kleckineau]

PFF took the easy route here predicting a terribly undersized reach pick to fail at ILB

[varjet]

A few points:

• Darron Lee had more value to the Jets than perhaps other teams because the Defense overall was just so slow.  If Lee is one of 4 lbs, and the other 3 are 250 pounds.   SI has an article about how teams may be missing something with big safeties.  In many ways, Lee is a supersized safety.  I think in the end he will not be a bust because the Jets will find a way to use him strategically, and they have other players (including 2 FAs who may regret they signed with the Jets) to play a more traditional LB role.  Lee was the defensive MVP of the Sugar Bowl-I think they will find a way for him to make plays in the NFL.
• That is not to say he will be a 3 down starter, because he may not.  Let's see where he plays on first down.
• 232 lbs?  237 lbs?  I like him as a player, but I would like a video of him getting on a scale.  I don't think he weighs that much.
• There is now question that the Jets needed someone who can do what Lee can do, but let's see how Deion Jones and Su'a Cravens end up playing.  They were similar players playing similar roles. 

[Tinstar]

42 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I'm saying he is not an olb and the jets have shown zero indication that he will be an olb.  If we had drafted a guy his size coming off of a 15 sack olb season I'd go hurrah!  We have a pass rusher!

Let me try and make it live for you. Who would you rather have blitzing the QB and  or covering the TE, Darren Lee and Pryor  or Henderson and Pryor  from those on the roster presently.

[PatsFanTX]

 

Lawrence Julius Taylor (L.T.)

Position: LB 

Height: 6-3    Weight: 237 lbs.

 

Born: February 4, 1959 in Williamsburg, VA (Age 57.095) 

High School: Lafayette

College: North Carolina   (school history) 

Drafted by the New York Giants in the 1st round (2nd overall) of the 1981 NFL Draft.

Yea, but when he was on all that coke he thought he was 6'5", 265 LB's with 4.2 speed and played like he was.

[Larz]

23 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

PFF took the easy route here predicting a terribly undersized reach pick to fail at ILB

on average he was rated about #15-#18 in every pre-draft list I saw.  please explain ho that is a reach at pick #20

[jack48]

5 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

https://t.co/kZAukmN6Es     Rated as the player with the highest "Bust" probability. Hope Lee shows them to be the clowns that they truly are!

Though the label of "bust" gets attached to players, it's often the team that should get the blame for drafting the wrong prospect in the wrong spot.

 

With a high draft position comes high expectations, and unfairly or not, players will be judged against their peers. In some cases, Pro Football Focus may like the player, but not on the team that picked him and not at the spot where he was picked. In other cases, players simply shouldn't be taken in the first or second rounds.

Here's a look at 10 players most likely to not live up to their draft spot, using PFF data to back up our assertions.

Darron Lee, LB, New York Jets

First round, No. 20 overall

PFF likes Lee as a player, but we didn't think he should have been taken in the first round. The skills for which he was drafted have not been up to par the last two years. His coverage grade ranked 73rd among linebackers in 2015, and he posted a negative grade in 2014. The expectation is that Lee will become a three-down linebacker with coverage versatility, but he wasn't effective in that role at Ohio State. Lee's a good athlete, however, and it shows up in the run game and as a pass-rusher, where his +8.2 rush grade was among the nation's best in 2015. But athleticism should not be synonymous with coverage ability, and Lee has a ways to go as a coverage player before warranting that first-round selection.

Insider

PFF---another sports swill bucket

[nyjbuddy]

Quote

Taken from profootballspot.com, talking about Wade Phillips 3-4 defense at Denver:  

Weakside Inside Linebacker, or Mo:

The Mo LB has to be able to flow to the ball, much like the 4-3 WLB. He is protected in the scheme to be able to move around and pursue. He is the coverage specialist and matches up one-on-one regularly. Because the plays are typically directed away from him, he is the leading tackler as he gets to the ball. The Mo is usually more undersized, speedy and athletic.

Roster Fit:

Danny Trevathan and Brandon Marshall are as ideal as you can draw them up for this role. These are prototype Mos, people. Playing 4-3 WLB translates well to a 3-4 one-gap Mo. Todd Davis is another name who will see some Mo snaps. I would expect Trevathan and Marshall to see time at MIKE as well, but they have the ability to succeed at Mo.

Danny Trevathan: 6'1", 240
Brandon Marshall: 6'1", 250
Todd Davis: 6'1", 235 

Lee fits the mold for the Mo LB spot in a 3-4 defense.

Quote

Taken from profootballspot.com, talking about Wade Phillips 3-4 defense at Denver:  

Strongside Inside Linebacker, or MIKE:

The MIKE is a downhill player. He is typically bulkier, with more power, able to take on OL blocks and still get to the ballcarrier. He has the ability to also fight off fullbacks in run play. As he is a strongside player, he emphasizes power not speed. This is your typical two-down run thumper of a player.

Sounds like David Harris

[Beerfish]

29 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Let me try and make it live for you. Who would you rather have blitzing the QB and  or covering the TE, Darren Lee and Pryor  or Henderson and Pryor  from those on the roster presently.

Can I choose a 1st round pick to add to the roster in place of Lee since we are going through this excersize?

[Mainejet]

When Darron Lee was drafted these are the things I heard Todd Bowles say about the pick:

1) He will be a day one starter.

2) He will play both inside and outside.

3) He will start inside

All I can do is laugh at all of this crappola. He's a f*cking midget that's going to start inside?! HTF does a JStokes sized guy get through all the blocks he's going to face from guys that will likely be anywhere from 4 to 6 inches taller than him and weigh probably 100 pounds more. There's no way.

But here is the biggest thing.....

Whenever I mention the Jets winning about 6 games this season, I don't get any argument? Now wouldn't it be a logical thing that if the draft is as great (as you guys obviously think) then we would win MUCH more than 6 games? Yielding great players during the draft is what makes teams BETTER than they were the previous season. Your silence tells me all I need to know. You're all planning on having Bowles kids and anything Mac and Bowles do/say you guys all have gay passion for.

I see a terrible draft that did not yield even one single starter. A whole lot of role players at best. They'll start Lee probably very early on, but they will quickly realize they made a mistake drafting him. As a direct result of a terrible draft by Mac, this team will be lucky to win 6 games. This fan base will seriously start to question if Mac/Bowles know what they're doing.

[32EBoozer]

7 minutes ago, nyjbuddy said:

Danny Trevathan: 6'1", 240
Brandon Marshall: 6'1", 250
Todd Davis: 6'1", 235 

Lee fits the mold for the Mo LB spot in a 3-4 defense.

Sounds like David Harris

Excellent find! Thanks for posting.

Looking forward to seeing Lee disrupt our opponents offensive schemes.

[Kleckineau]

26 minutes ago, Larz said:

on average he was rated about #15-#18 in every pre-draft list I saw.  please explain ho that is a reach at pick #20

Sure he was everyones  mock. I get that but if this isnt the prototypical draft for need vs BPA nothing is.

At the end of last season Bowles said we need to get faster so I have no doubt this was his need pick.

I am not devoid of hope for the kid. Maybe he can get it done but when I see a guy and team bullsh*tting about his weight when you  can clearly see at most he is playing at 215-220 lbs and now he is going to be getting blocked by NFL tackles and ends and TE's in a league now where EVERYONE is faster the pick makes me scratch my head.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Kleckineau said:

Sure he was everyones  mock. I get that but if this isnt the prototypical draft for need vs BPA nothing is.

At the end of last season Bowles said we need to get faster so I have no doubt this was his need pick.

I am not devoid of hope for the kid. Maybe he can get it done but when I see a guy and team bullsh*tting about his weight when you  can clearly see at most he is playing at 215-220 lbs and now he is going to be getting blocked by NFL tackles and ends and TE's in a league now where EVERYONE is faster the pick makes me scratch my head.

sometimes he'll be in coverage.  sometimes they'll line him up opposite mauldin.  he's playing behind a big defensive line that offenses have to deal with.  he may be washed out of some plays, but other times i expect him to flash.  speed changes how offenses have to play.  it's not like lee is the main guy that offenses have to worry about.  the defense has 5-6 other guys who are considered more dangerous and that will help him early on.

[32EBoozer]

6 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

Sure he was everyones  mock. I get that but if this isnt the prototypical draft for need vs BPA nothing is.

At the end of last season Bowles said we need to get faster so I have no doubt this was his need pick.

I am not devoid of hope for the kid. Maybe he can get it done but when I see a guy and team bullsh*tting about his weight when you  can clearly see at most he is playing at 215-220 lbs and now he is going to be getting blocked by NFL tackles and ends and TE's in a league now where EVERYONE is faster the pick makes me scratch my head.

You've got to catch him to block him. 4.47 running around behind Leo and McClendon, Sheldon and Mo.... tough lifting getting to the 2nd level against those guys.

[Tinstar]

14 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Can I choose a 1st round pick to add to the roster in place of Lee since we are going through this excersize?

If said player is not presently on the Jets roster, the answer is no.

But you may do as you wish .

[JoJoTownsell1]

19 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

But here is the biggest thing.....

Whenever I mention the Jets winning about 6 games this season, I don't get any argument? Now wouldn't it be a logical thing that if the draft is as great (as you guys obviously think) then we would win MUCH more than 6 games? Yielding great players during the draft is what makes teams BETTER than they were the previous season. Your silence tells me all I need to know. You're all planning on having Bowles kids and anything Mac and Bowles do/say you guys all have gay passion for.

Um, most people don't argue with you because they realize it's futile, while the rest understand that our schedule is brutal and no player at 20 was going to make our schedule any easier. So that puts anything from 6 wins to 10 wins in play. 

 

[nyjbuddy]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

sometimes he'll be in coverage.  sometimes they'll line him up opposite mauldin.  he's playing behind a big defensive line that offenses have to deal with.  he may be washed out of some plays, but other times i expect him to flash.  speed changes how offenses have to play.  it's not like lee is the main guy that offenses have to worry about.  the defense has 5-6 other guys who are considered more dangerous and that will help him early on.

Agreed.  A front 3/4 of Wilkerson, McLendon, Richardson and Williams backed by Harris should clog up the inside runs.  With Lee and Pryor, the Jets should be able to get to the runs to the outsides.  On passing downs, the down lineman should be the focus for the opposing o-line, garnering double teams, forcing the QB trying to figure out who else with be blitzing between Pryor, Lee, Mauldin, Jenkins, or a corner.  

[detectivekimble]

5 hours ago, Mainejet said:

I think he's a reach for a 3-4 team to select in the 1st round. Not that Lee was not a legitimate 1st round talent, he is. For a team playing a 4-3 base defense this guy is probably exactly what you want. But for a 3-4 team? He's mismatched. He's too small. He's a square peg in a round hole. There were a number of better picks to make at number 20 than a mismatched midget linebacker. If anything, what they really should have done was trade down rather than reaching for a pocket sized linebacker. He looks SMALLER than Justin Burris for Christ sake. I'm sorry but I cannot possibly see this working out well. Based on what our team plays and what Lee's prototypical fit is, this scenario has HUGE bust potential.

At the end of the day, the only way I will ever believe this pick is anything other than psychotically DUMB on the part of Mac is when I see him making plays on the field. And you've got to remember this draft wasn't to get players that can be fringe starters for the next 10 years. Everyone knows the Jets NEEDED players to make an impact for a long time to come because the talent base is in such disarray. The ONLY way the Jets can be successful this season when considering the losses of Snacks and Brick and still no TE, was to NET about TWO starters out of this draft.

I don't believe the Jets have a single starter out of this draft. Even if Lee makes an impact, he will not be making that impact this season. He's simply too small and he'll need to be coached up and maybe put on a program to build more muscle on his frame. So if Lee is NOT a starter then who else is? Hackenberg? NO way. Jenkins? NO way, he's a role player at best. Justin Burris? I doubt it. At best he'll probably come in on dime packages. Brandon Shell? NO way. He'll need at least a season or more of grooming to land a starting spot. He's more than likely never going to be anything better than depth.

No, Mac f*cked this draft royally. He set the team back in regards to talent. He screwed over the HC, although I think Bowles had his fingers all over this draft. The Jets are headed for a 6 win season at best. After that? There will be huge questions as to whether Todd Bowles and Mac were the right choices in the first place.

You realize the Jets defense consists mostly of big, strong, physical guys, right?  Olinemen aren't going to touch Lee.  That's why this works.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Augustiniak said:

you make it sound like it's easy to find a guy like lee in FA, but it isn't.  

One was available this offseason and he was locked up long term for less than we paid David Harris a year earlier. I think Lee is more talented, but then again we'd still have a 1st round pick to use on someone else who we didn't get. 

[Obrien2Toon]

Kyle Wilson

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Well look at it this way. I was only referring to offense/defense position players (as I figured that was understood). At least we weren't dumb enough to draft a kicker in the top 50. But really, who would ever do that?

[jamesr]

48 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

When Darron Lee was drafted these are the things I heard Todd Bowles say about the pick:

1) He will be a day one starter.

2) He will play both inside and outside.

3) He will start inside

All I can do is laugh at all of this crappola. He's a f*cking midget that's going to start inside?! HTF does a JStokes sized guy get through all the blocks he's going to face from guys that will likely be anywhere from 4 to 6 inches taller than him and weigh probably 100 pounds more. There's no way.

But here is the biggest thing.....

Whenever I mention the Jets winning about 6 games this season, I don't get any argument? Now wouldn't it be a logical thing that if the draft is as great (as you guys obviously think) then we would win MUCH more than 6 games? Yielding great players during the draft is what makes teams BETTER than they were the previous season. Your silence tells me all I need to know. You're all planning on having Bowles kids and anything Mac and Bowles do/say you guys all have gay passion for.

I see a terrible draft that did not yield even one single starter. A whole lot of role players at best. They'll start Lee probably very early on, but they will quickly realize they made a mistake drafting him. As a direct result of a terrible draft by Mac, this team will be lucky to win 6 games. This fan base will seriously start to question if Mac/Bowles know what they're doing.

From the post earlier about the WILB / Mo position in the 3-4 :

Quote

He is protected in the scheme to be able to move around and pursue.

If Bowles is planning on having Lee take on O linemen on lots of plays then I'll happily join the queue of posters calling for his head. But I will defer to his experience and coaching on D and assume / hope that he knows what he's doing.

As for the 6 wins, I'll wait till I see who's QBing the team come Sept before I even consider predicting a record. The draft isn't the only factor in our record this year; we've had much more impact from FA (as things stand). I'd expect our D to be better than last year based off FA and draft, but right now our O has a big ? at the most important position.

 

[Kleckineau]

1 hour ago, 32EBoozer said:

You've got to catch him to block him. 4.47 running around behind Leo and McClendon, Sheldon and Mo.... tough lifting getting to the 2nd level against those guys.

Small and speedy. I get it.

[drdetroit]

1 hour ago, nyjbuddy said:

Agreed.  A front 3/4 of Wilkerson, McLendon, Richardson and Williams backed by Harris should clog up the inside runs.  With Lee and Pryor, the Jets should be able to get to the runs to the outsides.  On passing downs, the down lineman should be the focus for the opposing o-line, garnering double teams, forcing the QB trying to figure out who else with be blitzing between Pryor, Lee, Mauldin, Jenkins, or a corner.  

Exactly.

 

I don't undrstand how we still don't have a great run defense this season.  Even with Lee undersized.  This is not Vilma lining up behind D-Rob and Kimo Von Oldhoffen

 

[drdetroit]

49 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Well look at it this way. I was only referring to offense/defense position players (as I figured that was understood). At least we weren't dumb enough to draft a kicker in the top 50. But really, who would ever do that?

Haha

[drdetroit]

1 hour ago, Obrien2Toon said:

Kyle Wilson

Line Lee up at the nickel he would probably do a better job of covering the slot receiver 

[Savage69]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Well look at it this way. I was only referring to offense/defense position players (as I figured that was understood). At least we weren't dumb enough to draft a kicker in the top 50. But really, who would ever do that?

Raiders both a kicker and a punter..

[Smashmouth]

6 hours ago, Mainejet said:

But that's not what Bowles is saying. Bowles said he was going to use Lee everywhere inside and outside. But first he'd start inside?! INSIDE?! How is this little guy going to shed blocks from 6'5" 300 pound offensive linemen? I can't see it happening at least not without adding weight. And even if he's eventually used to blitz on the outside, doesn't that make him a part time player? The Jets will not be blitzing 100% of the time. On top of that. Todd Bowles basically refused to use a 4-3 alignment last season despite having great talent along the DL, he was very stubborn about sticking to the 3-4. Based on that, I can't see him using the defense that way this season either.

Don't worry so much about what Bowles is saying, watch what he's doing on Sunday. The keyword in your post above is "everywhere"... Lee will be moving all over the field and with 4.47 speed that's going to create total havoc, I promise.

Now whether or not Lee is a capable player is the only unknown we should be discussing here, don't expect Bowles to just come out and say how he's going to use the guy because that's going to probably change from week to week

[Jet Nut]

7 hours ago, Mainejet said:

I think he's a reach for a 3-4 team to select in the 1st round. Not that Lee was not a legitimate 1st round talent, he is. For a team playing a 4-3 base defense this guy is probably exactly what you want. But for a 3-4 team? He's mismatched. He's too small. He's a square peg in a round hole. There were a number of better picks to make at number 20 than a mismatched midget linebacker. If anything, what they really should have done was trade down rather than reaching for a pocket sized linebacker. He looks SMALLER than Justin Burris for Christ sake. I'm sorry but I cannot possibly see this working out well. Based on what our team plays and what Lee's prototypical fit is, this scenario has HUGE bust potential.

At the end of the day, the only way I will ever believe this pick is anything other than psychotically DUMB on the part of Mac is when I see him making plays on the field. And you've got to remember this draft wasn't to get players that can be fringe starters for the next 10 years. Everyone knows the Jets NEEDED players to make an impact for a long time to come because the talent base is in such disarray. The ONLY way the Jets can be successful this season when considering the losses of Snacks and Brick and still no TE, was to NET about TWO starters out of this draft.

I don't believe the Jets have a single starter out of this draft. Even if Lee makes an impact, he will not be making that impact this season. He's simply too small and he'll need to be coached up and maybe put on a program to build more muscle on his frame. So if Lee is NOT a starter then who else is? Hackenberg? NO way. Jenkins? NO way, he's a role player at best. Justin Burris? I doubt it. At best he'll probably come in on dime packages. Brandon Shell? NO way. He'll need at least a season or more of grooming to land a starting spot. He's more than likely never going to be anything better than depth.

No, Mac f*cked this draft royally. He set the team back in regards to talent. He screwed over the HC, although I think Bowles had his fingers all over this draft. The Jets are headed for a 6 win season at best. After that? There will be huge questions as to whether Todd Bowles and Mac were the right choices in the first place.

I think its a reach any time you think you can or should type more than 1 sentence 

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

you make it sound like it's easy to find a guy like lee in FA, but it isn't.  

Or expect Macc to abandon his BPA approach because the cheapest position in FA is available as a draft pick.  

 

 

[Smashmouth]

3 hours ago, jamesr said:

The guy who played ILB next to Harris last year was 6'2", 239lbs. Was he "undersized"? Did he get overwhelmed consistently by blockers? No.

What he DID get was beaten in a foot race by any RB that he tried to cover out the backfield.

unfortunately most LB's do get beat in a foot race with RB's especially when your not getting to the QB and he has time to check down when his WR's are covered. A lot of what LB's do in the passing game has to do with timing and pass rush. I expect Lee to be rushing the passer much more than I expect him to be covering RB's

[SenorGato]

4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I didn't say speed at LB isn't a weapon. I'm saying it's one of the cheapest positions to replace in free agency so therefore it is poorer value in the middle of round 1 than a high-dollar position (e.g. QB, WR, CB, DL, LT).

One of those positions is not like the others.

[HessStation]

I remember when PFF called Randall Gay a better Cornerback than Asante Samuel based on the math. 

[T0mShane]

I didn't love the pick because I thought it was cowardly, like the Pryor pick, but I think it looks better alongside the Jenkins pick in the third. I'm fairly sure that our defense would have been much improved last year if any of our LBs could run even a little bit, and now Bowles has his speedy LBs.

 

That said, if Laquon Treadwell starts putting up Alshon numbers, and if Noah Spence becomes Justin Houston, everyone gets fired, especially if the short-fingered Abercrombie model we drafted in Round Two never develops.

[dbatesman]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

I didn't love the pick because I thought it was cowardly, like the Pryor pick, but I think it looks better alongside the Jenkins pick in the third. I'm fairly sure that our defense would have been much improved last year if any of our LBs could run even a little bit, and now Bowles has his speedy LBs.

 

That said, if Laquon Treadwell starts putting up Alshon numbers, and if Noah Spence becomes Justin Houston, everyone gets fired, especially if the short-fingered Abercrombie model we drafted in Round Two never develops.

Treadwell might could come back to haunt us, but I don't think we have to worry about Spence.