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PFF really has a bug up it's A$$ over Darron Lee & Jets as a whole


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15 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Treadwell might could come back to haunt us, but I don't think we have to worry about Spence.

Yeah, I know he didn't hit all the markers, but he's just one of those players I have a feeling about. Granted, I haven't made a good prediction in about five years, but there it is. 

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I think he's a reach for a 3-4 team to select in the 1st round. Not that Lee was not a legitimate 1st round talent, he is. For a team playing a 4-3 base defense this guy is probably exactly what you w

Think they might want to let the guy play a few NFL snaps before calling him a bust? Stupid article.

Bowles Blitzes more than any other coach in the NFL: he wants smaller players with speed . Now while a player like Lee would not fit in a conventional 3-4 like say the 86 Giants ran Bowles Defense is

33 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I didn't love the pick because I thought it was cowardly, like the Pryor pick, but I think it looks better alongside the Jenkins pick in the third. I'm fairly sure that our defense would have been much improved last year if any of our LBs could run even a little bit, and now Bowles has his speedy LBs.

 

That said, if Laquon Treadwell starts putting up Alshon numbers, and if Noah Spence becomes Justin Houston, everyone gets fired, especially if the short-fingered Abercrombie model we drafted in Round Two never develops.

The only thing worse then getting Shamed is getting Shaned..:(

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2 hours ago, Savage69 said:

Raiders both a kicker and a punter..:)

Funny thing about the Janikowski pick is they went to the playoffs that season and the 2 years after that, would have gone to 3 straight div championship games (and quite possibly 2 SBs) if not for the tuck game, and probably win a SB if Al doesn't trade Chucky to Tampa. Some would argue causation with this correlation, I'm sure.

Then again maybe they'd have more than some "we came close" titles to show for it if they'd taken Shaun Alexander instead of a freaking kicker. Or someone who could generate some outside pass rush. Or if thousand-pound Goose didn't bodyslam Gannon's shoulder in the championship game. 

Another crazy thing about their 2000 draft. They had no 3rd round pick, and traded their 6th rounder for Bobby Hoying. So with their 4 remaining picks in rounds 1-5, they drafted a kicker in round 1 and a punter in round 4, and were arguably the 2 best picks they made that year. Both of them are still in the league 17 years later.

 

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I don't mind the pick, it helps out the defense (I wanted Doctson) because speed is exactly what we clamored for as fans from the defense.  How many times on big 3rd downs did we see slot WRs, TEs, or RBs get free over the middle for conversions?

In today's game, not only do you need to rush the passer, but you have to take out certain areas of the field because the passing games are more based on quick reads.  It's not like they do constant play action or take 7 step drops for passing.  You manufacture sacks by having the safety nets taken away, and Lee helps accomplish this.  He can run with pretty much all the WRs, TEs, and RBs to be in coverage.  What is size going to matter as long as he makes the tackle?  If you hit someone hard, it's a penalty anyway now.  Speed on defense is vital, and an area we sorely lacked last year.  Heck, half the board went nuts when we resigned Harris to an above market deal last year, saying we're slow as heck, need to infuse youth and speed onto the team.   

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

I didn't love the pick because I thought it was cowardly, like the Pryor pick, but I think it looks better alongside the Jenkins pick in the third. I'm fairly sure that our defense would have been much improved last year if any of our LBs could run even a little bit, and now Bowles has his speedy LBs.

 

That said, if Laquon Treadwell starts putting up Alshon numbers, and if Noah Spence becomes Justin Houston, everyone gets fired, especially if the short-fingered Abercrombie model we drafted in Round Two never develops.

add doctson to that list

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4 minutes ago, win4ever said:

I don't mind the pick, it helps out the defense (I wanted Doctson) because speed is exactly what we clamored for as fans from the defense.  How many times on big 3rd downs did we see slot WRs, TEs, or RBs get free over the middle for conversions?

In today's game, not only do you need to rush the passer, but you have to take out certain areas of the field because the passing games are more based on quick reads.  It's not like they do constant play action or take 7 step drops for passing.  You manufacture sacks by having the safety nets taken away, and Lee helps accomplish this.  He can run with pretty much all the WRs, TEs, and RBs to be in coverage.  What is size going to matter as long as he makes the tackle?  If you hit someone hard, it's a penalty anyway now.  Speed on defense is vital, and an area we sorely lacked last year.  Heck, half the board went nuts when we resigned Harris to an above market deal last year, saying we're slow as heck, need to infuse youth and speed onto the team.   

True, which is why (other than my general dislike for taking Iow-cost positions with high picks) he's here for the next 4 years minimum so I'm happier if he's a winner of a pick.

Harris is probably going to be here through the full 3 years of that contract unless we dump him in favor of another FA ILB. I don't see us drafting another slower "thumper" type of LB and dumping Harris for a rookie. But maybe now Bowles will hopefully stop force-feeding Harris onto the field on obvious passing downs at a minimum. One can always dream.

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I'm praying that Lee becomes our Bobby Wagner, love watching that guy when Seattle plays. Like others have stated, the game has changed. We're not facing the Cowboys next year (thank god, Zeke behind that line with Romo back/w/Dez).

I expect out front 7 to be pretty nasty. Mo, Big cat, Sheldon (that's a really good Dline), Mauldin, Reilly, Catapano, Bishop, Pryor, Marcus will all be stronger & better this year. With the losses that Denver has suffered on defense, Jets have a chance to be the best defense in the league. 

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11 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

https://t.co/kZAukmN6Es     Rated as the player with the highest "Bust" probability. Hope Lee shows them to be the clowns that they truly are!

Though the label of "bust" gets attached to players, it's often the team that should get the blame for drafting the wrong prospect in the wrong spot.

 

With a high draft position comes high expectations, and unfairly or not, players will be judged against their peers. In some cases, Pro Football Focus may like the player, but not on the team that picked him and not at the spot where he was picked. In other cases, players simply shouldn't be taken in the first or second rounds.

Here's a look at 10 players most likely to not live up to their draft spot, using PFF data to back up our assertions.

nyj.png?w=110&h=110&transparent=true

Darron Lee, LB, New York Jets

First round, No. 20 overall

PFF likes Lee as a player, but we didn't think he should have been taken in the first round. The skills for which he was drafted have not been up to par the last two years. His coverage grade ranked 73rd among linebackers in 2015, and he posted a negative grade in 2014. The expectation is that Lee will become a three-down linebacker with coverage versatility, but he wasn't effective in that role at Ohio State. Lee's a good athlete, however, and it shows up in the run game and as a pass-rusher, where his +8.2 rush grade was among the nation's best in 2015. But athleticism should not be synonymous with coverage ability, and Lee has a ways to go as a coverage player before warranting that first-round selection.

PFF is garbage

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10 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

True, which is why (other than my general dislike for taking Iow-cost positions with high picks) he's here for the next 4 years minimum so I'm happier if he's a winner of a pick.

Harris is probably going to be here through the full 3 years of that contract unless we dump him in favor of another FA ILB. I don't see us drafting another slower "thumper" type of LB and dumping Harris for a rookie. But maybe now Bowles will hopefully stop force-feeding Harris onto the field on obvious passing downs at a minimum. One can always dream.

Yeah, I don't see them dumping him because he's the leader of the defense and has such a presence in the locker room.  However, it's sad to see him out there on passing downs where the TE or RB just runs right by him.  The only time I've seen him be effective in passing is if the pass rush gets there before the TE or Rb runs by Harris, and the QB has to throw it early.   I'm not sure why teams didn't just run the wheel route and a cut back from that with Harris out there more often.  He struggles to stay in the same vicinity for those.

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33 minutes ago, win4ever said:

Yeah, I don't see them dumping him because he's the leader of the defense and has such a presence in the locker room.  However, it's sad to see him out there on passing downs where the TE or RB just runs right by him.  The only time I've seen him be effective in passing is if the pass rush gets there before the TE or Rb runs by Harris, and the QB has to throw it early.   I'm not sure why teams didn't just run the wheel route and a cut back from that with Harris out there more often.  He struggles to stay in the same vicinity for those.

Remeber when he intercepted Brady and rumbled towards the end zone? Who was that 50 yr. old TE who ran him down? Ben Watson?

Now that's slow.

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6 hours ago, Kleckineau said:

Sure he was everyones  mock. I get that but if this isnt the prototypical draft for need vs BPA nothing is.

At the end of last season Bowles said we need to get faster so I have no doubt this was his need pick.

I am not devoid of hope for the kid. Maybe he can get it done but when I see a guy and team bullsh*tting about his weight when you  can clearly see at most he is playing at 215-220 lbs and now he is going to be getting blocked by NFL tackles and ends and TE's in a league now where EVERYONE is faster the pick makes me scratch my head.

but if the 18th ranked player falls to you at #20, isn't it pretty likely he was the BPA ?

if you don't like the pick thats cool, just don't get the "reach" thing that is starting to pop up.

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10 hours ago, Mainejet said:

First of all, the only reason why Buchanan was used that way was out of necessity. It's not like he knew all along this was going to work. He was forced to do patchwork. It also only worked because of the personnel surrounding Buchanan and even then it was "LIMITED" success. I'm not so sure the Jets have that same personnel to aid the little guy.

But here's the biggest reason of all, just because you may have experienced some limited success with a shrimp playing linebacker, DOESN'T mean you go right out next time and pick a f*cking midget. How about looking for the guy with the prototypical size to play in the 3-4 and the speed you're looking for? What a novel idea. Crazy I know...

That's cute...

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He's a money-backer.  $LB

It's pretty much unlike any other position ever.  Or rather, like a bunch of them mixed together.  So it's perfect that we have a beefed up nickle-safety who has experience playing CB, that figures to line up inside next to Harris. 

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3 hours ago, Jetster said:

I'm praying that Lee becomes our Bobby Wagner, love watching that guy when Seattle plays. Like others have stated, the game has changed. We're not facing the Cowboys next year (thank god, Zeke behind that line with Romo back/w/Dez).

I expect out front 7 to be pretty nasty. Mo, Big cat, Sheldon (that's a really good Dline), Mauldin, Reilly, Catapano, Bishop, Pryor, Marcus will all be stronger & better this year. With the losses that Denver has suffered on defense, Jets have a chance to be the best defense in the league. 

If Revis is healthy and someone steps up at that CB2 spot then yea I think this D can be really good...which will be interesting to see just how we hang in and compete in these games early on...

If one of these QBs(Geno) on the roster can give us avg play at QB, that schedule might not be a daunting as it seems on paper...

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7 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

Remeber when he intercepted Brady and rumbled towards the end zone? Who was that 50 yr. old TE who ran him down? Ben Watson?

Now that's slow.

Yeah, he was always a guy that got by on smarts out on the field than physical ability.  He'll make a decent coach one day, IMO.  But yeah, I think it was Alge Crumbler, who was basically like an extra offensive lineman.  

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1 hour ago, win4ever said:

Yeah, he was always a guy that got by on smarts out on the field than physical ability.  He'll make a decent coach one day, IMO.  But yeah, I think it was Alge Crumbler, who was basically like an extra offensive lineman.  

Alge "The Cripple" Crumpler! 

Nice Total Recall on that one.

I'm sure Harris heard about that one in the lockerroom.

Good thing we won that game, or he never would have heard the end of it.

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32 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

Alge "The Cripple" Crumpler! 

Nice Total Recall on that one.

I'm sure Harris heard about that one in the lockerroom.

Good thing we won that game, or he never would have heard the end of it.

That game was probably the greatest Jet game I've seen in full.  I remember because I watched that game in full like 10 times.  Rex running down the sideline when Greene scores, even though it was the wrong play, his little go to bed gesture, Braylon carrying two guys into the end zone before the half, etc.  I think I stayed up basically the whole night watching sportscenter watching the highlights even though it was essentially repeats, lol.   

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29 minutes ago, win4ever said:

That game was probably the greatest Jet game I've seen in full.  I remember because I watched that game in full like 10 times.  Rex running down the sideline when Greene scores, even though it was the wrong play, his little go to bed gesture, Braylon carrying two guys into the end zone before the half, etc.  I think I stayed up basically the whole night watching sportscenter watching the highlights even though it was essentially repeats, lol.   

Good Times.... we came so close in '09 & '10.

The loss to the Colts hurt, but would have been tough to beat Brees and the Saints that yr.

'10 should have been our yr. Rex came up short that yr. in his preparation of the team and how flat they came out against Pitt.

Sad, because I think our "D" could have neutralized a strong GB team.

So tough to get back to the Big Game but I'm hopeful within the next few yrs. we can get there.

If only Giselle would convince Tammy to retire!

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15 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I didn't love the pick because I thought it was cowardly, like the Pryor pick, but I think it looks better alongside the Jenkins pick in the third. I'm fairly sure that our defense would have been much improved last year if any of our LBs could run even a little bit, and now Bowles has his speedy LBs.

 

That said, if Laquon Treadwell starts putting up Alshon numbers, and if Noah Spence becomes Justin Houston, everyone gets fired, especially if the short-fingered Abercrombie model we drafted in Round Two never develops.

:(

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13 hours ago, PatsFanTX said:

 

 

And they got the best punter in the history of the NFL for 10+ years and an All-Pro kicker for 10+ years.

 

Do you think it was worth it?

Well they could have HOF'er Joe DeLamielleure with their 1st pick and got Ray Guy in the 2nd rd.. And in 2000 they could have had All Pro RB Shawn Alexander and got Janikowski in the 2nd but that's just me..:)

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20 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Um, most people don't argue with you because they realize it's futile, while the rest understand that our schedule is brutal and no player at 20 was going to make our schedule any easier. So that puts anything from 6 wins to 10 wins in play. 

 

BS. That's complete BS. There is NOBODY on our schedule that the Jets could not beat if they had actually drafted some f*cking starters. Not a part time linebacker and a lot of depth. This draft f*cking sucks in terms of the bigger picture. We are NOT building toward a SB. That should be the point of everything we do. Instead, Mac tried to tread water, essentially he tried to maintain a 10-6 team and he failed miserably at that. This team will not win any more than 6 games, more than likely 5.

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19 hours ago, jamesr said:

From the post earlier about the WILB / Mo position in the 3-4 :

If Bowles is planning on having Lee take on O linemen on lots of plays then I'll happily join the queue of posters calling for his head. But I will defer to his experience and coaching on D and assume / hope that he knows what he's doing.

As for the 6 wins, I'll wait till I see who's QBing the team come Sept before I even consider predicting a record. The draft isn't the only factor in our record this year; we've had much more impact from FA (as things stand). I'd expect our D to be better than last year based off FA and draft, but right now our O has a big ? at the most important position.

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick or no, this team will NOT win more than 6 games. This team is worse on paper than they were last season. Mac did NOT help this team to improve. What everyone seems to be forgetting is that the job is to backfill ALL of the losses you suffer during the offseason meanwhile getting BETTER. That did not happen. What happened instead was band aids over huge losses and completely pathetic, sh*tty draft. So winning 6 games figures....

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26 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

BS. That's complete BS. There is NOBODY on our schedule that the Jets could not beat if they had actually drafted some f*cking starters. Not a part time linebacker and a lot of depth. This draft f*cking sucks in terms of the bigger picture. We are NOT building toward a SB. That should be the point of everything we do. Instead, Mac tried to tread water, essentially he tried to maintain a 10-6 team and he failed miserably at that. This team will not win any more than 6 games, more than likely 5.

Wah!!! We didny draft Lynch!!! Wah!!!

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On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 8:04 AM, Mainejet said:

I think he's a reach for a 3-4 team to select in the 1st round. Not that Lee was not a legitimate 1st round talent, he is. For a team playing a 4-3 base defense this guy is probably exactly what you want. But for a 3-4 team? He's mismatched. He's too small. He's a square peg in a round hole. There were a number of better picks to make at number 20 than a mismatched midget linebacker. If anything, what they really should have done was trade down rather than reaching for a pocket sized linebacker. He looks SMALLER than Justin Burris for Christ sake. I'm sorry but I cannot possibly see this working out well. Based on what our team plays and what Lee's prototypical fit is, this scenario has HUGE bust potential.

At the end of the day, the only way I will ever believe this pick is anything other than psychotically DUMB on the part of Mac is when I see him making plays on the field. And you've got to remember this draft wasn't to get players that can be fringe starters for the next 10 years. Everyone knows the Jets NEEDED players to make an impact for a long time to come because the talent base is in such disarray. The ONLY way the Jets can be successful this season when considering the losses of Snacks and Brick and still no TE, was to NET about TWO starters out of this draft.

I don't believe the Jets have a single starter out of this draft. Even if Lee makes an impact, he will not be making that impact this season. He's simply too small and he'll need to be coached up and maybe put on a program to build more muscle on his frame. So if Lee is NOT a starter then who else is? Hackenberg? NO way. Jenkins? NO way, he's a role player at best. Justin Burris? I doubt it. At best he'll probably come in on dime packages. Brandon Shell? NO way. He'll need at least a season or more of grooming to land a starting spot. He's more than likely never going to be anything better than depth.

No, Mac f*cked this draft royally. He set the team back in regards to talent. He screwed over the HC, although I think Bowles had his fingers all over this draft. The Jets are headed for a 6 win season at best. After that? There will be huge questions as to whether Todd Bowles and Mac were the right choices in the first place.

At least you gave them until their first rookie minicamp to declare that all 7 players are busts and non-starters.  That's more than enough time to evaluate them.  I mean some guys are super unfair and illogical and declare an entire draft as 5hit the minute Mr. Irrelevant is announced, but at least you took a fair and logical approach.

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1 hour ago, Mainejet said:

BS. That's complete BS. There is NOBODY on our schedule that the Jets could not beat if they had actually drafted some f*cking starters. Not a part time linebacker and a lot of depth. This draft f*cking sucks in terms of the bigger picture. We are NOT building toward a SB. That should be the point of everything we do. Instead, Mac tried to tread water, essentially he tried to maintain a 10-6 team and he failed miserably at that. This team will not win any more than 6 games, more than likely 5.

seriously the goal should be 2-14 and drafted the next great franchise QB Deshaun Watson....will be tough to jump ahead of 69ers and brownies. 

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1 hour ago, Mainejet said:

Ryan Fitzpatrick or no, this team will NOT win more than 6 games. This team is worse on paper than they were last season. Mac did NOT help this team to improve. What everyone seems to be forgetting is that the job is to backfill ALL of the losses you suffer during the offseason meanwhile getting BETTER. That did not happen. What happened instead was band aids over huge losses and completely pathetic, sh*tty draft. So winning 6 games figures....

LOL, you are the biggest cry baby on this board by a country mile.  Now go shoot something.

 

 

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I pay about as much attention to these guys as I do Todd McShay and Mel kiper, none. As much as he's a douche, Belichick knows the game and said it best in this article:

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25423617/bill-belichick-rips-analytics-websites-says-theyre-not-real-accurate

He basically says that its impossible for these analysts to know what the coaching staff wanted and expected out of each player on each given play. Football is a complete domino effect, if one player fails his job on a play it can cause everyone else to miss their assignment.

Little Bill goes on to say that even when he watches film of other teams he has no way to consistently decipher which player was the intial cause of a play breakdown, because he or anyone cannot know what the play's intitial intent was for every single player.

1 stat matters, scoreboard. 

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