PatsFanTX Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Look Kraft is full of baloney and sanctimonious. But I'd take him any day over Woody. Of course he is, Woody could use a lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 24 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said: And the market for Geno as a free agent will be what? He'll be lucky to get a second job. Come on. I really don't like Geno, either, but he'll absolutely get a second job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayBen Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Slightly late to this debate, but i've had a strong opinion on this subject for awhile now and I would love to put my two cents in! That being said I am 100% pulling for Geno Smith to be the starting QB this season and here's why: 1.) Poor Coaching/Scheme: Geno Smith was drafted and developed under Rex in his crucial beginning two years of pro football. Rex Ryan had extremely limited (if any) knowledge on developing offensive talent or running a pro offense in general. Also, not to mention the "bully" and lack of leadership type atmosphere that transpired under Rex. How can any young QB thrive in that situation? I would be beyond petrified if was drafted by a Rex Ryan ran club or the Cleveland Browns (irrelevant but true) as an up and coming quarterback, abysmal track records... 2.) Lack of Surrounding Talent: Does Stephen Hill, Jeremy Kerley, David Nelson, Clyde Gates, and a washed up Santonio Holmes ring a bell? Also, Jeff Cumberland and old man Kellen Winslow at the tight end. Mix this with a Rex Ryan offensive scheme and many of your good NFL starting quarterbacks would struggle... Wouldn't it be nice to see Geno with Marshall, Decker, Thompkins, Smith, Amaro, Forte and Powell? Just a thought. 3.) Has SHOWN Potential: With the surrounding talent I mentioned above Geno had shown moments of very respectable QB play. Yes, Geno did make some dumb decisions, and costly turnovers at times but I would like to accredit some of that to the growing pains of being a rookie, as well as the lack of surrounding talent, and offensive scheme. Either way it cannot be denied that Geno has strung together a few good games early on his career. Also, he has a strong arm and all the physical tools to be great IF the decision making gets better, and I believe he is in much better place maturity wise, as well as a much more suitable locker room environment for him to improve as a professional. 4.) Fitz was "deceivingly" good last year: The 10-6 record, 31 TD's/15 INT's, and 4,000 yards passing make it extremely easy to overlook how limited Fitzpatrick really is skillfully. For example, Fitz had AT LEAST 10-15+ passes that should have been intercepted. He has a very evident lack of arm strength, and failed miserably it seemed on passes over 30 yards.. I mean it is absolutely painful to watch receivers stopping mid tracks to reach back behind defenders to catch a depressing Fitz long ball. He makes it hard for deep threats to thrive such as Devin Smith and Chris Owusu. In general he has a noodle arm and struggles to throw a good crisp spiral on anything over 20 yards. Also, Fitz tries to force passes a lot, for as smart as he is I really think his decision making could be better. I still cannot wrap my head around the buffalo game in week 17. Down 2 with the ball at the buffalo 25 in the 4th quarter. A Field goal takes the lead, but what does Fitz do? He fires right into the hands of a defender on a well covered post route in the end zone on 1st and 10. Was that necessary at all? Basically what I'm saying is that if Geno Smith did not get his jaw broken last year would we really have been worse off? Fitz had a great scheme with Gailey as well as a lot of talent around him. Hypothetically speaking I feel Geno would have done just as well as Fitzpatrick. Way more upside and I would absolutely love to see Geno play with talent around him, and a coach with a calm composure who has been quoted as "a leader of men." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
win4ever Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 19 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said: They already have that money. They just don't want to. Fitz and Wilkerson and their contracts have nothing to do with each other. How so? If Wilkerson was willing to sign a deal that was good for both parties, this would be done already. Therefore, right now signing Wilkerson needs more money. So how would you add money for Wilkerson plus Fitz without compromising the team? To fit in Fitz, we need to redo contracts for multiple players that limit our flexibility in the future years. I think I mentioned this in another thread, but Fitz faced one of the easiest defensive matchups last year, while this year is the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Just now, win4ever said: How so? If Wilkerson was willing to sign a deal that was good for both parties, this would be done already. Therefore, right now signing Wilkerson needs more money. So how would you add money for Wilkerson plus Fitz without compromising the team? To fit in Fitz, we need to redo contracts for multiple players that limit our flexibility in the future years. I think I mentioned this in another thread, but Fitz faced one of the easiest defensive matchups last year, while this year is the opposite. They don't need more money to sign Mo. Wilkerson can get all the money he wants with a low base salary for the first year and it could wipe 8-10 million off the books right there. If they don't come to an agreement, there are simple things they can do to make money available without touching the Wilkerson franchise tag. Cut Breno, restructure a few contracts of Mangold and Marshall. Neither of those guys are going anywhere and they wouldn't limit anything. The Jets have 25 million in cap space free next year. It's nearly 100 in 2018. They have one player under contract for 2019 (except this year's rookies). It's not that hard. And no one knows what the schedule looks like this year. Teams aren't settled, injuries haven't happened, and you never know what will happen otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 7 hours ago, fltflo said: Villain, You better stop making sense and giving great examples with excellent explanations about Geno or you might get banned by many here on this board. lol. I would just like for Jets fans to relax. We're such a knee-jerk fanbase that we'll complain about things that we simply know nothing about while at the same time never acknowledging the fact when the fact surrounds a player that isnt liked. Geno Smith has one glaring fundamental problem as a QB. This fundamental problem, though it being just one can really wreck a drive and can keep Geno Smith from being consistent. However, this fundamental problem can also be fixed with practice that leads to consistency, better talent and play design. This problem is that Geno Smith runs backward in the pocket when pressured in his face. Geno Smith is athletic, and I believe that he's been used to (Pop warner, high school, college etc) being able to allude rushers by running backward in order to buy more time to make a play. This isnt something that happened all the time for example, but this is something that he was probably able to do, and because he was able to it wasnt something that was addressed because it worked. Now he's in the NFL and is facing more complex interior pressures from Linebackers/lineman that are world class athletes and Geno is losing that battle. Add to the fact that in 2013 the Jets LG/RG's were Vlad Ducasse & Willie Colon and his WR's were Santonio Holmes (coming back from LisFranc and was never the same), Stephen Hill and Jeremy Kerley. Meaning that not only did a rookie QB who doesnt know how to properly handle pressure up the middle have Vlad Ducasse as a LG (terrible) and Willie Colon at RG (mediocre at best) but his #1 WR never fully recovered from his injury, his #2 WR is a certified bust and the WR with the most production is his #3 Jeremy Kerley. However, im not finished. None of Geno's starting WR's played more than 12 games in 2013. Holmes played 11, Kerley & Hill played 12. This means for a quarter of Geno's rookie season he had to rely on WR's such as Clyde Gates (played in 6 games) as a fill-in. Now, this is just a perspective of the talent Geno had around him. Now lets get into the meat of this....Geno being a "stupid" quarterback. Lets look at who Geno had to learn from. Geno's head coach (The guy in charge) is Rex Ryan. Rex is literally a glorified defensive coordinator. Rex was there to coach and call the defense. He had absolutely nothing to do with the offensive side of the ball. Now I can imagine how this would impact every offensive player on the team...but especially a rookie offensive player who happens to be the new QB. The offensive coordinator is the newly acquired Marty Morningwhatever, who just took over from Tony Sparano who he himself only lasted 1 season. People also talk about why they want Fitz back because he's a "leader" and he can help the young guys. I can agree with that, and with that said, who was the "leader" for Geno Smith? Mark Sanchez, a guy who went to town ripping Idzik a new one after he was injured in that preseason game? Exactly. Geno ends the season going 8-8 (2 games better than the previous season of 6-10) and one of his main problems his rookie season was handling pressure up the middle, taking bad sacks which put the team out of fieldgoal range etc. However, as a passer he was below average, but showed signs...though he was a rookie who was originally intended to sit before the Sanchez preseason injury due to incompetent coaching by Rex Ryan. He completes 56% of his passes 12 TD's and 21 INT's. Now for Geno's 2nd season (The season where sh*t just got ridiculous). The Jets know that they are still in the middle of purging the team of bad contracts by now 2nd year GM John Idzik. The problem is, the Jets arent hitting on draft picks and the Jets team is now getting older and slower. Idzik is being super frugal with spending, deciding not to resign Austin Howard but instead signs Breno Giacomini in order to save a measly 100,000 dollars. He also lets Ducasse go and replaces him with 2nd year player Brian Winters. Idzik also lets Santonio Holmes go and replaces him with Eric Decker. However now, we have a problem. Not only has the offensive line gotten worse at the RT posiiton with Giacomini and Brian Winters, but Willie Colon is a year older and his more below mediocre than he is mediocre, but now add to the fact that the Jets allowed the defense to go to sh*t. They traded Revis in the 2013 offseason, Cromartie is gone in the 2014 offseason, Dee Milliner had an injured rookie season on his way to now being the #1 CB in 2014. Dimitri Patterson is signed by Idzik in the offseason to replace Cro but then he goes AWOL and is released around preseason so now we have an injury prone #1 CB and no #2 CB. The Jets draft a SS in Calvin Pryor but because of the lack of FS talent they decide to place Pryor as a FS and plug in Antonio Allen as the SS while benching last year's starter Dawan Landry. We all know what happened...this sh*t completely fell apart. Week 3 Decker injures his hammy and was not the same until Week 17, Dee Milliner only plays 3 games, Calvin Pryor is getting destroyed as a FS and is actually benched, Brian Winters is looking bad at LG, Willie Colon is looking like he's over the hill at RG, Giacomini is not looking like an upgrade at RT, D'Brick is regressing, Stephen Hill sucks, David Nelson tries to compensate for the injured Decker but cant, Jeremy Kerley is basically the Jets best receiver during Deckers limited availability, the Chris Johnson experiment didnt work because they never put him on the field....etc. Mid season Idzik realizes the team has no viable targets and trades for Percy Harvin. Harvin is brand new and doesnt know the playbook. He has to learn on the fly and is basically limited....and it showed. However, Rex Ryan makes the decision to bench Geno Smith for Michael Vick. Vick looks terrible and after two games Geno is again the starter. However, with Geno back in the line up he now has a still injured Eric Decker and now Percy Harvin. Geno statstically rebounds completing 88 of his last 134 passes completing 66% of his passes and throwing 6 TD's to only 3 INT's over this last 6 games of the season. The Jets end the season 4-12. The HC is still Rex and Rex still doesnt know the offense and MM has proven to be a below average OC and literally cost the Jets a game with a stupid ass Timeout call against the Packers. Now, how does anyone expect Geno Smith to learn from Rex Ryan when it has been confirmed numerous times that in practices Rex Ryan isnt even around the offensive players? How good was Marty Morningwhatever as an OC? What offensive talent can we even speak of that has been developed since Rex has been the HC? What offensive talent did MM develop when he was the coordinator? People keep talking about how Geno Smith is so stupid and he is incapable to learning anything. My problem is I dont know any other offensive player off the top of my head that I can say that Rex Ryan's coaching staff developed. Whether it was Schotty at OC, Tony Sparano at OC or MM at OC. Can anyone think of a player? It gets to the point where Jets fans should shut their mouth and open their eyes. Rex Ryan and his coaching staff has never done a thing considered productive on offense. The closest they got was Shonn Greene, but that even flamed out the moment Alan Faneca and Damien Woody left the team. Im not saying that people dont have the right not to like a player, but expect to be called out when hate is just being thrown all around with no facts to back it up. I can sit here and admit that Geno Smith has a problem dealing with pressure in his face and he makes the wrong decision. However, I can also admit that there werent any teachers or leaders around here either. What has MM done since leaving the Jets? Has Rex ever tried to become an actual head coach by paying attention to the offensive side of the ball? Now, with that out of the way lets get to the real. Outside of Geno running backward when dealing with pressure, what is his problem? He threw 21 INT's his rookie season and threw only 13 the next season....which was less than what Fitz threw this season. Yet you hear about him being a "turnover machine". Geno Smith was one of the better passers in the entire league when it came to passes 20 yards or longer. Why dont we hear about that? Now just imagine Geno Smith being able to sit for an entire year under an OC that is actually an OC, with a HC that is actually a HC, with targets that are actual targets (#1 WR duo in the league last year), a rushing game that is actually a rushing game (Ivory registered his first 1,000 yard season last year for Chan Gailey and we just upgraded to Matt Forte). Chan Gailey's offense is designed on getting the ball out quickly, which worked very well for Brian Winters last season. And yes, I know about Geno and the Raiders game, but if you projected his numbers from that game he would have had over 4,000 yards on the season with 32 TD's and only 16 INT's while completing 65% of his passes. Keep in mind he came into that game cold, with no chemistry and just came back from an injury in which he missed the entire preseason and the first 2 weeks of the season, so it wasnt like he was even practicing all that time. So how freaking bad was the game.....really? Jets fans need to ease up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetrider Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 1 hour ago, Rangers9 said: Almosts don't count. If you did then Johnny Unitas would be a bum too. Look Fitz made enough mistakes that day without almosts. Just blast him for what he actually did. You ignore those points too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 1 hour ago, slats said: I really don't like Geno, either, but he'll absolutely get a second job. "YEAH AS A CRACK DEALER." - Mainejet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 1 hour ago, PatsFanTX said: Of course he is, Woody could use a lesson. I thought it over and while I dislike Woody and can't stand the incompetency I despise Kraft and his team so much that I'll take what we have over him. I'd even take the Dolans over him and that's saying a lot. And the same goes for Belichick and Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 18 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said: It gets to the point where Jets fans should shut their mouth and open their eyes. Rex Ryan and his coaching staff has never done a thing considered productive on Offense... Jets fans need to ease up. Bowles was smart to get Chan because most D coaches spend more time with the defense. Who on offense did Herm or Mangin develop ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fltflo Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 lol. I would just like for Jets fans to relax. We're such a knee-jerk fanbase that we'll complain about things that we simply know nothing about while at the same time never acknowledging the fact when the fact surrounds a player that isnt liked. Geno Smith has one glaring fundamental problem as a QB. This fundamental problem, though it being just one can really wreck a drive and can keep Geno Smith from being consistent. However, this fundamental problem can also be fixed with practice that leads to consistency, better talent and play design. This problem is that Geno Smith runs backward in the pocket when pressured in his face. Geno Smith is athletic, and I believe that he's been used to (Pop warner, high school, college etc) being able to allude rushers by running backward in order to buy more time to make a play. This isnt something that happened all the time for example, but this is something that he was probably able to do, and because he was able to it wasnt something that was addressed because it worked. Now he's in the NFL and is facing more complex interior pressures from Linebackers/lineman that are world class athletes and Geno is losing that battle. Add to the fact that in 2013 the Jets LG/RG's were Vlad Ducasse & Willie Colon and his WR's were Santonio Holmes (coming back from LisFranc and was never the same), Stephen Hill and Jeremy Kerley. Meaning that not only did a rookie QB who doesnt know how to properly handle pressure up the middle have Vlad Ducasse as a LG (terrible) and Willie Colon at RG (mediocre at best) but his #1 WR never fully recovered from his injury, his #2 WR is a certified bust and the WR with the most production is his #3 Jeremy Kerley. However, im not finished. None of Geno's starting WR's played more than 12 games in 2013. Holmes played 11, Kerley & Hill played 12. This means for a quarter of Geno's rookie season he had to rely on WR's such as Clyde Gates (played in 6 games) as a fill-in. Now, this is just a perspective of the talent Geno had around him. Now lets get into the meat of this....Geno being a "stupid" quarterback. Lets look at who Geno had to learn from. Geno's head coach (The guy in charge) is Rex Ryan. Rex is literally a glorified defensive coordinator. Rex was there to coach and call the defense. He had absolutely nothing to do with the offensive side of the ball. Now I can imagine how this would impact every offensive player on the team...but especially a rookie offensive player who happens to be the new QB. The offensive coordinator is the newly acquired Marty Morningwhatever, who just took over from Tony Sparano who he himself only lasted 1 season. People also talk about why they want Fitz back because he's a "leader" and he can help the young guys. I can agree with that, and with that said, who was the "leader" for Geno Smith? Mark Sanchez, a guy who went to town ripping Idzik a new one after he was injured in that preseason game? Exactly. Geno ends the season going 8-8 (2 games better than the previous season of 6-10) and one of his main problems his rookie season was handling pressure up the middle, taking bad sacks which put the team out of fieldgoal range etc. However, as a passer he was below average, but showed signs...though he was a rookie who was originally intended to sit before the Sanchez preseason injury due to incompetent coaching by Rex Ryan. He completes 56% of his passes 12 TD's and 21 INT's. Now for Geno's 2nd season (The season where sh*t just got ridiculous). The Jets know that they are still in the middle of purging the team of bad contracts by now 2nd year GM John Idzik. The problem is, the Jets arent hitting on draft picks and the Jets team is now getting older and slower. Idzik is being super frugal with spending, deciding not to resign Austin Howard but instead signs Breno Giacomini in order to save a measly 100,000 dollars. He also lets Ducasse go and replaces him with 2nd year player Brian Winters. Idzik also lets Santonio Holmes go and replaces him with Eric Decker. However now, we have a problem. Not only has the offensive line gotten worse at the RT posiiton with Giacomini and Brian Winters, but Willie Colon is a year older and his more below mediocre than he is mediocre, but now add to the fact that the Jets allowed the defense to go to sh*t. They traded Revis in the 2013 offseason, Cromartie is gone in the 2014 offseason, Dee Milliner had an injured rookie season on his way to now being the #1 CB in 2014. Dimitri Patterson is signed by Idzik in the offseason to replace Cro but then he goes AWOL and is released around preseason so now we have an injury prone #1 CB and no #2 CB. The Jets draft a SS in Calvin Pryor but because of the lack of FS talent they decide to place Pryor as a FS and plug in Antonio Allen as the SS while benching last year's starter Dawan Landry. We all know what happened...this sh*t completely fell apart. Week 3 Decker injures his hammy and was not the same until Week 17, Dee Milliner only plays 3 games, Calvin Pryor is getting destroyed as a FS and is actually benched, Brian Winters is looking bad at LG, Willie Colon is looking like he's over the hill at RG, Giacomini is not looking like an upgrade at RT, D'Brick is regressing, Stephen Hill sucks, David Nelson tries to compensate for the injured Decker but cant, Jeremy Kerley is basically the Jets best receiver during Deckers limited availability, the Chris Johnson experiment didnt work because they never put him on the field....etc. Mid season Idzik realizes the team has no viable targets and trades for Percy Harvin. Harvin is brand new and doesnt know the playbook. He has to learn on the fly and is basically limited....and it showed. However, Rex Ryan makes the decision to bench Geno Smith for Michael Vick. Vick looks terrible and after two games Geno is again the starter. However, with Geno back in the line up he now has a still injured Eric Decker and now Percy Harvin. Geno statstically rebounds completing 88 of his last 134 passes completing 66% of his passes and throwing 6 TD's to only 3 INT's over this last 6 games of the season. The Jets end the season 4-12. The HC is still Rex and Rex still doesnt know the offense and MM has proven to be a below average OC and literally cost the Jets a game with a stupid ass Timeout call against the Packers. Now, how does anyone expect Geno Smith to learn from Rex Ryan when it has been confirmed numerous times that in practices Rex Ryan isnt even around the offensive players? How good was Marty Morningwhatever as an OC? What offensive talent can we even speak of that has been developed since Rex has been the HC? What offensive talent did MM develop when he was the coordinator? People keep talking about how Geno Smith is so stupid and he is incapable to learning anything. My problem is I dont know any other offensive player off the top of my head that I can say that Rex Ryan's coaching staff developed. Whether it was Schotty at OC, Tony Sparano at OC or MM at OC. Can anyone think of a player? It gets to the point where Jets fans should shut their mouth and open their eyes. Rex Ryan and his coaching staff has never done a thing considered productive on offense. The closest they got was Shonn Greene, but that even flamed out the moment Alan Faneca and Damien Woody left the team. Im not saying that people dont have the right not to like a player, but expect to be called out when hate is just being thrown all around with no facts to back it up. I can sit here and admit that Geno Smith has a problem dealing with pressure in his face and he makes the wrong decision. However, I can also admit that there werent any teachers or leaders around here either. What has MM done since leaving the Jets? Has Rex ever tried to become an actual head coach by paying attention to the offensive side of the ball? Now, with that out of the way lets get to the real. Outside of Geno running backward when dealing with pressure, what is his problem? He threw 21 INT's his rookie season and threw only 13 the next season....which was less than what Fitz threw this season. Yet you hear about him being a "turnover machine". Geno Smith was one of the better passers in the entire league when it came to passes 20 yards or longer. Why dont we hear about that? Now just imagine Geno Smith being able to sit for an entire year under an OC that is actually an OC, with a HC that is actually a HC, with targets that are actual targets (#1 WR duo in the league last year), a rushing game that is actually a rushing game (Ivory registered his first 1,000 yard season last year for Chan Gailey and we just upgraded to Matt Forte). Chan Gailey's offense is designed on getting the ball out quickly, which worked very well for Brian Winters last season. And yes, I know about Geno and the Raiders game, but if you projected his numbers from that game he would have had over 4,000 yards on the season with 32 TD's and only 16 INT's while completing 65% of his passes. Keep in mind he came into that game cold, with no chemistry and just came back from an injury in which he missed the entire preseason and the first 2 weeks of the season, so it wasnt like he was even practicing all that time. So how freaking bad was the game.....really? Jets fans need to ease up. [/quote Come on man, stop with all these accurate facts, no one wants to hear that. Geno Sucks, just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 18 minutes ago, Savage69 said: Bowles was smart to get Chan because most D coaches spend more time with the defense. Who on offense did Herm or Mangin develop ? Exactly. This is why I said in a prior rant that the Jets havent had a respectable OC in atleast 15 years. Every star/superstar this team has had in recent memory has always been on defense. We never develop anything on offense. The last WR to go over 1000 yards before Marsh/Deck was Jericho Cotchery almost 10 friggin years ago,....IN A PASSING LEAGUE! How does one know the history of this team yet instantly point your finger at the player? Im not saying that Geno isnt at fault on some level, he is ultimately the player on the field, but when you see the jets history when it comes to the offense, no matter the position, then it would be absolutely ridiculous not to equate that and just pretend like "Only if we had a better QB". If we had a better QB they would have still be throwing to David Nelson, Antonio Holmes, Stephen Hill, Chaz Chillenz, Jeff Cumberland, Zach Sudfeld, Jeremy Kerley, Ryan Spadola, Clyde Gates, David Clowney, Dustin keller, Patrick Turner, Plaxico Burress etc, etc. I dont even want to talk about the revolving problem we've had with the Oline since the Faneca/Woody departures, guys who will be protecting that "better quarterback". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 5 minutes ago, fltflo said: 42 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said: lol. I would just like for Jets fans to relax. We're such a knee-jerk fanbase that we'll complain about things that we simply know nothing about while at the same time never acknowledging the fact when the fact surrounds a player that isnt liked. Geno Smith has one glaring fundamental problem as a QB. This fundamental problem, though it being just one can really wreck a drive and can keep Geno Smith from being consistent. However, this fundamental problem can also be fixed with practice that leads to consistency, better talent and play design. This problem is that Geno Smith runs backward in the pocket when pressured in his face. Geno Smith is athletic, and I believe that he's been used to (Pop warner, high school, college etc) being able to allude rushers by running backward in order to buy more time to make a play. This isnt something that happened all the time for example, but this is something that he was probably able to do, and because he was able to it wasnt something that was addressed because it worked. Now he's in the NFL and is facing more complex interior pressures from Linebackers/lineman that are world class athletes and Geno is losing that battle. Add to the fact that in 2013 the Jets LG/RG's were Vlad Ducasse & Willie Colon and his WR's were Santonio Holmes (coming back from LisFranc and was never the same), Stephen Hill and Jeremy Kerley. Meaning that not only did a rookie QB who doesnt know how to properly handle pressure up the middle have Vlad Ducasse as a LG (terrible) and Willie Colon at RG (mediocre at best) but his #1 WR never fully recovered from his injury, his #2 WR is a certified bust and the WR with the most production is his #3 Jeremy Kerley. However, im not finished. None of Geno's starting WR's played more than 12 games in 2013. Holmes played 11, Kerley & Hill played 12. This means for a quarter of Geno's rookie season he had to rely on WR's such as Clyde Gates (played in 6 games) as a fill-in. Now, this is just a perspective of the talent Geno had around him. Now lets get into the meat of this....Geno being a "stupid" quarterback. Lets look at who Geno had to learn from. Geno's head coach (The guy in charge) is Rex Ryan. Rex is literally a glorified defensive coordinator. Rex was there to coach and call the defense. He had absolutely nothing to do with the offensive side of the ball. Now I can imagine how this would impact every offensive player on the team...but especially a rookie offensive player who happens to be the new QB. The offensive coordinator is the newly acquired Marty Morningwhatever, who just took over from Tony Sparano who he himself only lasted 1 season. People also talk about why they want Fitz back because he's a "leader" and he can help the young guys. I can agree with that, and with that said, who was the "leader" for Geno Smith? Mark Sanchez, a guy who went to town ripping Idzik a new one after he was injured in that preseason game? Exactly. Geno ends the season going 8-8 (2 games better than the previous season of 6-10) and one of his main problems his rookie season was handling pressure up the middle, taking bad sacks which put the team out of fieldgoal range etc. However, as a passer he was below average, but showed signs...though he was a rookie who was originally intended to sit before the Sanchez preseason injury due to incompetent coaching by Rex Ryan. He completes 56% of his passes 12 TD's and 21 INT's. Now for Geno's 2nd season (The season where sh*t just got ridiculous). The Jets know that they are still in the middle of purging the team of bad contracts by now 2nd year GM John Idzik. The problem is, the Jets arent hitting on draft picks and the Jets team is now getting older and slower. Idzik is being super frugal with spending, deciding not to resign Austin Howard but instead signs Breno Giacomini in order to save a measly 100,000 dollars. He also lets Ducasse go and replaces him with 2nd year player Brian Winters. Idzik also lets Santonio Holmes go and replaces him with Eric Decker. However now, we have a problem. Not only has the offensive line gotten worse at the RT posiiton with Giacomini and Brian Winters, but Willie Colon is a year older and his more below mediocre than he is mediocre, but now add to the fact that the Jets allowed the defense to go to sh*t. They traded Revis in the 2013 offseason, Cromartie is gone in the 2014 offseason, Dee Milliner had an injured rookie season on his way to now being the #1 CB in 2014. Dimitri Patterson is signed by Idzik in the offseason to replace Cro but then he goes AWOL and is released around preseason so now we have an injury prone #1 CB and no #2 CB. The Jets draft a SS in Calvin Pryor but because of the lack of FS talent they decide to place Pryor as a FS and plug in Antonio Allen as the SS while benching last year's starter Dawan Landry. We all know what happened...this sh*t completely fell apart. Week 3 Decker injures his hammy and was not the same until Week 17, Dee Milliner only plays 3 games, Calvin Pryor is getting destroyed as a FS and is actually benched, Brian Winters is looking bad at LG, Willie Colon is looking like he's over the hill at RG, Giacomini is not looking like an upgrade at RT, D'Brick is regressing, Stephen Hill sucks, David Nelson tries to compensate for the injured Decker but cant, Jeremy Kerley is basically the Jets best receiver during Deckers limited availability, the Chris Johnson experiment didnt work because they never put him on the field....etc. Mid season Idzik realizes the team has no viable targets and trades for Percy Harvin. Harvin is brand new and doesnt know the playbook. He has to learn on the fly and is basically limited....and it showed. However, Rex Ryan makes the decision to bench Geno Smith for Michael Vick. Vick looks terrible and after two games Geno is again the starter. However, with Geno back in the line up he now has a still injured Eric Decker and now Percy Harvin. Geno statstically rebounds completing 88 of his last 134 passes completing 66% of his passes and throwing 6 TD's to only 3 INT's over this last 6 games of the season. The Jets end the season 4-12. The HC is still Rex and Rex still doesnt know the offense and MM has proven to be a below average OC and literally cost the Jets a game with a stupid ass Timeout call against the Packers. Now, how does anyone expect Geno Smith to learn from Rex Ryan when it has been confirmed numerous times that in practices Rex Ryan isnt even around the offensive players? How good was Marty Morningwhatever as an OC? What offensive talent can we even speak of that has been developed since Rex has been the HC? What offensive talent did MM develop when he was the coordinator? People keep talking about how Geno Smith is so stupid and he is incapable to learning anything. My problem is I dont know any other offensive player off the top of my head that I can say that Rex Ryan's coaching staff developed. Whether it was Schotty at OC, Tony Sparano at OC or MM at OC. Can anyone think of a player? It gets to the point where Jets fans should shut their mouth and open their eyes. Rex Ryan and his coaching staff has never done a thing considered productive on offense. The closest they got was Shonn Greene, but that even flamed out the moment Alan Faneca and Damien Woody left the team. Im not saying that people dont have the right not to like a player, but expect to be called out when hate is just being thrown all around with no facts to back it up. I can sit here and admit that Geno Smith has a problem dealing with pressure in his face and he makes the wrong decision. However, I can also admit that there werent any teachers or leaders around here either. What has MM done since leaving the Jets? Has Rex ever tried to become an actual head coach by paying attention to the offensive side of the ball? Now, with that out of the way lets get to the real. Outside of Geno running backward when dealing with pressure, what is his problem? He threw 21 INT's his rookie season and threw only 13 the next season....which was less than what Fitz threw this season. Yet you hear about him being a "turnover machine". Geno Smith was one of the better passers in the entire league when it came to passes 20 yards or longer. Why dont we hear about that? Now just imagine Geno Smith being able to sit for an entire year under an OC that is actually an OC, with a HC that is actually a HC, with targets that are actual targets (#1 WR duo in the league last year), a rushing game that is actually a rushing game (Ivory registered his first 1,000 yard season last year for Chan Gailey and we just upgraded to Matt Forte). Chan Gailey's offense is designed on getting the ball out quickly, which worked very well for Brian Winters last season. And yes, I know about Geno and the Raiders game, but if you projected his numbers from that game he would have had over 4,000 yards on the season with 32 TD's and only 16 INT's while completing 65% of his passes. Keep in mind he came into that game cold, with no chemistry and just came back from an injury in which he missed the entire preseason and the first 2 weeks of the season, so it wasnt like he was even practicing all that time. So how freaking bad was the game.....really? Jets fans need to ease up. [/quote Come on man, stop with all these accurate facts, no one wants to hear that. Geno Sucks, just because. Im going to end up writing a book messing with you! lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 8 hours ago, Mike135 said: @BowlesMovement@Rangers9@BigRy56@JazzyJet@Patriot Killa@mickeyshuler@rkw522@Smashmouth@ljr@Charlie Brown@AFJF@jetsfellow@Bcess@Saul Goodman@Pcola@Warfish@flgreen@GandWFan@Better2bgreenthanblue@slowmoe57@CrazyCarl40@New York Mick@Anthony Jet@Joe Jets fan@Ben Had@no psls@jetfuel Interesting that there are more people here then want smith under any circumstances. I'm assuming you are a frequent client at the place your pushing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said: lol. I would just like for Jets fans to relax. We're such a knee-jerk fanbase that we'll complain about things that we simply know nothing about while at the same time never acknowledging the fact when the fact surrounds a player that isnt liked. Geno Smith has one glaring fundamental problem as a QB. This fundamental problem, though it being just one can really wreck a drive and can keep Geno Smith from being consistent. However, this fundamental problem can also be fixed with practice that leads to consistency, better talent and play design. This problem is that Geno Smith runs backward in the pocket when pressured in his face. Geno Smith is athletic, and I believe that he's been used to (Pop warner, high school, college etc) being able to allude rushers by running backward in order to buy more time to make a play. This isnt something that happened all the time for example, but this is something that he was probably able to do, and because he was able to it wasnt something that was addressed because it worked. Now he's in the NFL and is facing more complex interior pressures from Linebackers/lineman that are world class athletes and Geno is losing that battle. Add to the fact that in 2013 the Jets LG/RG's were Vlad Ducasse & Willie Colon and his WR's were Santonio Holmes (coming back from LisFranc and was never the same), Stephen Hill and Jeremy Kerley. Meaning that not only did a rookie QB who doesnt know how to properly handle pressure up the middle have Vlad Ducasse as a LG (terrible) and Willie Colon at RG (mediocre at best) but his #1 WR never fully recovered from his injury, his #2 WR is a certified bust and the WR with the most production is his #3 Jeremy Kerley. However, im not finished. None of Geno's starting WR's played more than 12 games in 2013. Holmes played 11, Kerley & Hill played 12. This means for a quarter of Geno's rookie season he had to rely on WR's such as Clyde Gates (played in 6 games) as a fill-in. Now, this is just a perspective of the talent Geno had around him. Now lets get into the meat of this....Geno being a "stupid" quarterback. Lets look at who Geno had to learn from. Geno's head coach (The guy in charge) is Rex Ryan. Rex is literally a glorified defensive coordinator. Rex was there to coach and call the defense. He had absolutely nothing to do with the offensive side of the ball. Now I can imagine how this would impact every offensive player on the team...but especially a rookie offensive player who happens to be the new QB. The offensive coordinator is the newly acquired Marty Morningwhatever, who just took over from Tony Sparano who he himself only lasted 1 season. People also talk about why they want Fitz back because he's a "leader" and he can help the young guys. I can agree with that, and with that said, who was the "leader" for Geno Smith? Mark Sanchez, a guy who went to town ripping Idzik a new one after he was injured in that preseason game? Exactly. Geno ends the season going 8-8 (2 games better than the previous season of 6-10) and one of his main problems his rookie season was handling pressure up the middle, taking bad sacks which put the team out of fieldgoal range etc. However, as a passer he was below average, but showed signs...though he was a rookie who was originally intended to sit before the Sanchez preseason injury due to incompetent coaching by Rex Ryan. He completes 56% of his passes 12 TD's and 21 INT's. Now for Geno's 2nd season (The season where sh*t just got ridiculous). The Jets know that they are still in the middle of purging the team of bad contracts by now 2nd year GM John Idzik. The problem is, the Jets arent hitting on draft picks and the Jets team is now getting older and slower. Idzik is being super frugal with spending, deciding not to resign Austin Howard but instead signs Breno Giacomini in order to save a measly 100,000 dollars. He also lets Ducasse go and replaces him with 2nd year player Brian Winters. Idzik also lets Santonio Holmes go and replaces him with Eric Decker. However now, we have a problem. Not only has the offensive line gotten worse at the RT posiiton with Giacomini and Brian Winters, but Willie Colon is a year older and his more below mediocre than he is mediocre, but now add to the fact that the Jets allowed the defense to go to sh*t. They traded Revis in the 2013 offseason, Cromartie is gone in the 2014 offseason, Dee Milliner had an injured rookie season on his way to now being the #1 CB in 2014. Dimitri Patterson is signed by Idzik in the offseason to replace Cro but then he goes AWOL and is released around preseason so now we have an injury prone #1 CB and no #2 CB. The Jets draft a SS in Calvin Pryor but because of the lack of FS talent they decide to place Pryor as a FS and plug in Antonio Allen as the SS while benching last year's starter Dawan Landry. We all know what happened...this sh*t completely fell apart. Week 3 Decker injures his hammy and was not the same until Week 17, Dee Milliner only plays 3 games, Calvin Pryor is getting destroyed as a FS and is actually benched, Brian Winters is looking bad at LG, Willie Colon is looking like he's over the hill at RG, Giacomini is not looking like an upgrade at RT, D'Brick is regressing, Stephen Hill sucks, David Nelson tries to compensate for the injured Decker but cant, Jeremy Kerley is basically the Jets best receiver during Deckers limited availability, the Chris Johnson experiment didnt work because they never put him on the field....etc. Mid season Idzik realizes the team has no viable targets and trades for Percy Harvin. Harvin is brand new and doesnt know the playbook. He has to learn on the fly and is basically limited....and it showed. However, Rex Ryan makes the decision to bench Geno Smith for Michael Vick. Vick looks terrible and after two games Geno is again the starter. However, with Geno back in the line up he now has a still injured Eric Decker and now Percy Harvin. Geno statstically rebounds completing 88 of his last 134 passes completing 66% of his passes and throwing 6 TD's to only 3 INT's over this last 6 games of the season. The Jets end the season 4-12. The HC is still Rex and Rex still doesnt know the offense and MM has proven to be a below average OC and literally cost the Jets a game with a stupid ass Timeout call against the Packers. Now, how does anyone expect Geno Smith to learn from Rex Ryan when it has been confirmed numerous times that in practices Rex Ryan isnt even around the offensive players? How good was Marty Morningwhatever as an OC? What offensive talent can we even speak of that has been developed since Rex has been the HC? What offensive talent did MM develop when he was the coordinator? People keep talking about how Geno Smith is so stupid and he is incapable to learning anything. My problem is I dont know any other offensive player off the top of my head that I can say that Rex Ryan's coaching staff developed. Whether it was Schotty at OC, Tony Sparano at OC or MM at OC. Can anyone think of a player? It gets to the point where Jets fans should shut their mouth and open their eyes. Rex Ryan and his coaching staff has never done a thing considered productive on offense. The closest they got was Shonn Greene, but that even flamed out the moment Alan Faneca and Damien Woody left the team. Im not saying that people dont have the right not to like a player, but expect to be called out when hate is just being thrown all around with no facts to back it up. I can sit here and admit that Geno Smith has a problem dealing with pressure in his face and he makes the wrong decision. However, I can also admit that there werent any teachers or leaders around here either. What has MM done since leaving the Jets? Has Rex ever tried to become an actual head coach by paying attention to the offensive side of the ball? Now, with that out of the way lets get to the real. Outside of Geno running backward when dealing with pressure, what is his problem? He threw 21 INT's his rookie season and threw only 13 the next season....which was less than what Fitz threw this season. Yet you hear about him being a "turnover machine". Geno Smith was one of the better passers in the entire league when it came to passes 20 yards or longer. Why dont we hear about that? Now just imagine Geno Smith being able to sit for an entire year under an OC that is actually an OC, with a HC that is actually a HC, with targets that are actual targets (#1 WR duo in the league last year), a rushing game that is actually a rushing game (Ivory registered his first 1,000 yard season last year for Chan Gailey and we just upgraded to Matt Forte). Chan Gailey's offense is designed on getting the ball out quickly, which worked very well for Brian Winters last season. And yes, I know about Geno and the Raiders game, but if you projected his numbers from that game he would have had over 4,000 yards on the season with 32 TD's and only 16 INT's while completing 65% of his passes. Keep in mind he came into that game cold, with no chemistry and just came back from an injury in which he missed the entire preseason and the first 2 weeks of the season, so it wasnt like he was even practicing all that time. So how freaking bad was the game.....really? Jets fans need to ease up. Deep Ball Problems For Geno Smith By David Wyatt @DavidWyattNFL on Dec 16, 2014, 6:07a 43 Don McPeak-USA TODAY Sports Geno Smith will be with the New York Jets next year.If he wants to impress, he'll need to improve his deep ball accuracy considerably. TWEET SHARE (54) PIN The Jets will need to bring a Qaurterback in over the summer to compete with Geno Smith, however Geno will still be here come the start of next season, based on the Jets not having that many options and the fact he's contracted to the team on a very affordably salary, $1.3 million. Some fans will hate this idea but he'll only be entering his third year in the league and as Scott mentioned, he is showing some signs of improvement. Over my morning coffee I was looking into Geno Smith'sperformances, hoping to find some areas where he excels and some areas where it's a given he'll need to improve. One area I spotted that needed immediate attention was his accuracy on deep balls. He doesn't throw down field very much, but when he does, he is terrible. Geno has only attempted 37 passes that travel over 20 yards in the air. Considerably less than the league leader (Andrew Luck - 81). In fact, 28 quarterbacks have attempted more throws of over 20 yards. With Percy Harvin coming on board and Eric Decker, you would think we would try more shots downfield to our receivers, however when you look at Geno's performance, it makes sense for the Jets to pull back on the reigns. Of the 37 passes attempted, he has completed just 6 of them with 2 passes being dropped. Even if you factor in those passes, he has a league low completion percentage of 21.6%. Lower than a lot of young QB's like Teddy Bridgewater(42.1%), Zach Mettenberger (47.8%) and even lower than rookies Blake Bortles (31/9%) and Derek Carr (24.1%). If that wasn't bad enough, Geno has thrown 7 of his 12 interceptions on the season on throws more than 20 yards. Which means he's thrown more interceptions than pass completions on balls travelling downfield. That is an alarming rate given the amount of attempts. For example, the 7 interceptions thrown lead the league, more than Jay Cutler (6 on 59 attempts), Matt Stafford (5 on 55 attempts) and Nick Foles (6 on 59 attempts). If that were not bad enough, he has only 2 touchdowns and 224 yards throwing downfield. Looking at the same players we looked at above, that is considerably less than Jay Cutler (6 TD's for 647 yards), Nick Foles (9 TD's for 578 yards) and Matt Stafford (7 TD's for 669 yards). Are the Jets simply not protecting Geno long enough for deep plays to develop? Well actually, that couldn't be further from the truth. Geno Smith has more than 2.6 seconds to throw on 59.8% of his drop-backs, which is the highest rate in the league. However he is only completing 47.6% of his passes when given over 2.6 seconds to throw, good for 24th best out of 27 QB’s who have played in at least 50% of their team snaps. This is an obvious flaw in Geno's game, not the only one but a major one. In today's game you absolutely have to be able to push the ball down field, Geno can't do this without turning it over. This should be a major area of concern and one that is focused on over the off-season. http://www.ganggreennation.com/2014/12/16/7401013/deep-ball-problems-for-geno-smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 28 minutes ago, flgreen said: Deep Ball Problems For Geno Smith By David Wyatt @DavidWyattNFL on Dec 16, 2014, 6:07a 43 Don McPeak-USA TODAY Sports Geno Smith will be with the New York Jets next year.If he wants to impress, he'll need to improve his deep ball accuracy considerably. TWEET SHARE (54) PIN The Jets will need to bring a Qaurterback in over the summer to compete with Geno Smith, however Geno will still be here come the start of next season, based on the Jets not having that many options and the fact he's contracted to the team on a very affordably salary, $1.3 million. Some fans will hate this idea but he'll only be entering his third year in the league and as Scott mentioned, he is showing some signs of improvement. Over my morning coffee I was looking into Geno Smith'sperformances, hoping to find some areas where he excels and some areas where it's a given he'll need to improve. One area I spotted that needed immediate attention was his accuracy on deep balls. He doesn't throw down field very much, but when he does, he is terrible. Geno has only attempted 37 passes that travel over 20 yards in the air. Considerably less than the league leader (Andrew Luck - 81). In fact, 28 quarterbacks have attempted more throws of over 20 yards. With Percy Harvin coming on board and Eric Decker, you would think we would try more shots downfield to our receivers, however when you look at Geno's performance, it makes sense for the Jets to pull back on the reigns. Of the 37 passes attempted, he has completed just 6 of them with 2 passes being dropped. Even if you factor in those passes, he has a league low completion percentage of 21.6%. Lower than a lot of young QB's like Teddy Bridgewater(42.1%), Zach Mettenberger (47.8%) and even lower than rookies Blake Bortles (31/9%) and Derek Carr (24.1%). If that wasn't bad enough, Geno has thrown 7 of his 12 interceptions on the season on throws more than 20 yards. Which means he's thrown more interceptions than pass completions on balls travelling downfield. That is an alarming rate given the amount of attempts. For example, the 7 interceptions thrown lead the league, more than Jay Cutler (6 on 59 attempts), Matt Stafford (5 on 55 attempts) and Nick Foles (6 on 59 attempts). If that were not bad enough, he has only 2 touchdowns and 224 yards throwing downfield. Looking at the same players we looked at above, that is considerably less than Jay Cutler (6 TD's for 647 yards), Nick Foles (9 TD's for 578 yards) and Matt Stafford (7 TD's for 669 yards). Are the Jets simply not protecting Geno long enough for deep plays to develop? Well actually, that couldn't be further from the truth. Geno Smith has more than 2.6 seconds to throw on 59.8% of his drop-backs, which is the highest rate in the league. However he is only completing 47.6% of his passes when given over 2.6 seconds to throw, good for 24th best out of 27 QB’s who have played in at least 50% of their team snaps. This is an obvious flaw in Geno's game, not the only one but a major one. In today's game you absolutely have to be able to push the ball down field, Geno can't do this without turning it over. This should be a major area of concern and one that is focused on over the off-season. http://www.ganggreennation.com/2014/12/16/7401013/deep-ball-problems-for-geno-smith I expect this from you, a guy who will post anything that makes Geno look bad, from this ^^^^ to grown men gossiping like girls talking about leadership. Im also not surprised that you found this article which represented his 2nd season....the exact season where sh*t hit the fan and it all went down the toiletbowl, yet for some reason you couldnt find THESE from his rookie season. The first is from Deadspin: http://regressing.deadspin.com/charts-who-are-the-best-deep-passers-in-the-nfl-1469917039 Charts: Who Are The Best Deep Passers In The NFL? Reuben Fischer-Baum 11/23/13 11:00am Filed to: NFL 133.2K 677 Deep passes are the most exciting play in televised football—the viewing audience can't see the situation downfield until the ball (and the camera) make it down there, so the play always feels, in that tiny moment before we catch up, like a sure touchdown or interception. It's well known that not every QB in the league has the ability (or proclivity) to throw a good deep ball, but we want to know: Who are best deeper passers in the NFL? Let's look at this from a few different angles. For starters, let's look at who's actually throwing it downfield. Pro Football Focus has tracked every single passing attempt at a target 20+ yards down the field going back to 2008. The chart at the top shows, for this year's QBs (min. 150 total attempts), who's thrown deep passes the most often over the six seasons, as a percentage of total attempts. There are some surprises in there—I didn't know Jake Locker chucked it so often—but for the most part this conforms with general assumptions about who have the "strong arms" in the league. Slingers like Eli Manning and Joe Flacco are towards the top, while dink-and-dunkers like Ryan Tannehill, Christian Ponder, Alex Smith, and Matt Schaub are towards the bottom. But who's throwing the most accurate deep throws? Pro Football Focus also tracks receiver drops, so instead of completion percentage—which knocks the QB for throws that should have been caught—we can use PFF's "accuracy" figure, which is a measurement of how many throws were on target (completions + drops over attempts): Well that might be why I hadn't heard too much about Jake Locker—while he ranks first in the league in deep pass attempt rate, just 35.6 percent of his deep looks are on target, which puts him at 26th in the league. Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick have been accurate on over 50 percent of their deep throws so far in their careers, which is just absurd, joining Drew Brees at the very top (with Geno Smith and Aaron Rodgers close behind). Mike Glennon and Matt Schaub are notable in that they attempt very few deep passes, but when they do they've been very accurate. Finally, it's interesting to see that while Eli Manning has seen a lot of success with the deep ball, Joe Flacco has actually been pretty terrible. Accuracy isn't a perfectly fair measure though; a 25-yard first down is great, but it's not as good as a 50-yard touchdown, even if that throw is harder to hit. Here's a chart of yards per attempt by QB on 20+ yard targets, still from 2008 through present: Drew Brees takes over the top spot, thanks in no small part to the absurd downfield dominance of Jimmy Graham. Joe Flacco joins a very sad group of passers who are at least 10% below the league average, although Tom Brady, Jay Cutler, and Matt Stafford aren't far behind. The Jets face the Ravens this weekend in a critical game for the AFC playoff picture, and while a very successful deep passer will be taking the field, it probably isn't the QB you'd expect it to be. Or this one from Pro Football Focus. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/12/07/signature-stats-play-action-deep-passing/ Deep Passing We set the baseline at targets aimed at least 20 yards downfield when defining a deep pass attempt. At this distance you’ll almost exclusively see vertical routes (posts, corners, go’s, etc.). Hitches, ins, and outs make up just 8% of the targets 20 yards down the field while variations of the go route make up 51%. 20+ Under 20 QB Rating 87.8 86.7 YPA 11.8 6.6 Comp% 34.5% 65.0% Int Rate 6.8% 2.1% TD Rate 10.9% 3.5% Usage 11.9% 88.1% . One doesn’t need to see these stats to understand that deep targets are more volatile, but the numbers do a good job of showing the extent. Interception rates and touchdown rates triple while yards per attempt doubles and completion percentage is nearly chopped in half. Surprisingly though with all those variations, quarterback rating is almost unchanged. While success with deep passes fluctuates wildly, the rate at which quarterbacks throw them are much less deviated than even play action. The lowest rate in the league is a mere 11.2 percentage points behind the highest compared to a difference of 24.1 for play action. Assuming 35 attempts a game, that difference translates to about four throws a game and 63 for a season. Top 10 Deep Passing attempt percentages: # Name Team Att. % 1 Nick Foles PHI 17.3 2 Jake Locker TEN 16.4 3 Jay Cutler CHI 15.8 4 Michael Vick PHI 15.6 5 Geno Smith NYJ 15.3 6 Colin Kaepernick SF 15.2 7 Russell Wilson SEA 14.8 8 Andy Dalton CIN 14.5 8 E.J. Manuel BUF 14.5 10 Joe Flacco BLT 14.4 .Bottom 10 Deep Passing attempt percentages: # Name Team Att. % 30 Mike Glennon TB 10.0 31 Ryan Tannehill MIA 10.0 32 Tony Romo DAL 9.8 33 Josh McCown CHI 8.7 34 Chad Henne JAX 8.4 34 Sam Bradford SL 8.4 36 Jason Campbell CLV 7.8 37 Alex D. Smith KC 7.7 38 Matt Schaub HST 6.6 39 Matt Ryan ATL 6.1 . Deep Passing Accuracy Percentage If there has been one aspect of Russell Wilson’s game that stands out above all over his brief NFL career, it’s his deep ball. No one can match the frequency and precision that Wilson has shown on targets over 20 yards the past two seasons. For Wilson’s career he has gone deep on 15.6% of his passes, been accurate on 48.6% of those, and averaged 16.5 yards per attempt. Top 10 Deep Passing Accuracy Percentages: # Name Team Att. Comp Acc. % 1 Russell Wilson SEA 45 25 60.0 2 Matt Cassel MIN 15 9 60.0 3 Case Keenum HST 30 12 53.3 4 Aaron Rodgers GB 32 16 53.1 5 Alex D. Smith KC 34 12 52.9 6 Mike Glennon TB 29 12 48.3 7 Kellen Clemens SL 19 6 47.4 8 Nick Foles PHI 34 16 47.1 9 Peyton Manning DEN 58 26 46.6 10 Geno Smith NYJ 50 21 46.0 Bottom 10 Deep Passing Accuracy Percentages: # Name Team Att. Comp Acc. % 30 Eli Manning NYG 53 14 32.1 31 Terrelle Pryor OAK 25 7 32.0 32 Chad Henne JAX 32 8 31.3 33 E.J. Manuel BUF 36 9 30.6 34 Robert Griffin III WAS 44 11 29.5 35 Joe Flacco BLT 63 14 28.6 36 Cam Newton CAR 49 11 28.6 37 Carson Palmer ARZ 59 16 27.1 38 Jason Campbell CLV 12 3 25.0 39 Jake Locker TEN 30 7 23.3 . Maybe Jake Locker should reign in the deep balls a little next season. He’s attempting them at the second highest rate yet he’s accurate on by far the fewest. He’s amazingly almost 40 percentage points behind the leaders in terms of accuracy. That number could very well just be an aberration though as he was accurate on 40.8% in 2012. Geno must really bother you given the shenanigans you're resorting to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Interesting how stats can be twisted to a purpose. How aboutPFF's charts saying smith is the 30th in the league in accuracy. Not going to spin 10,000 words, but smith sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Interesting how stats can be twisted to a purpose. How about PFF's charts saying smith is the 30th in the league in accuracy. Not going to spin 10,000 words, but smith sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Interesting how stats can be twisted to a purpose. How about PFF's charts saying smith is the 30th in the league in accuracy. Not going to spin 10,000 words, but smith sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 8 minutes ago, flgreen said: Interesting how stats can be twisted to a purpose. How aboutPFF's charts saying smith is the 30th in the league in accuracy. Not going to spin 10,000 words, but smith sucks Interesting how you responded using stats then when someone else uses stats then suddenly its "twisted to a purpose". lol. Interesting indeed. Fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 2 hours ago, BroadwayBen said: Slightly late to this debate, but i've had a strong opinion on this subject for awhile now and I would love to put my two cents in! That being said I am 100% pulling for Geno Smith to be the starting QB this season and here's why: 1.) Poor Coaching/Scheme: Geno Smith was drafted and developed under Rex in his crucial beginning two years of pro football. Rex Ryan had extremely limited (if any) knowledge on developing offensive talent or running a pro offense in general. Also, not to mention the "bully" and lack of leadership type atmosphere that transpired under Rex. How can any young QB thrive in that situation? I would be beyond petrified if was drafted by a Rex Ryan ran club or the Cleveland Browns (irrelevant but true) as an up and coming quarterback, abysmal track records... 2.) Lack of Surrounding Talent: Does Stephen Hill, Jeremy Kerley, David Nelson, Clyde Gates, and a washed up Santonio Holmes ring a bell? Also, Jeff Cumberland and old man Kellen Winslow at the tight end. Mix this with a Rex Ryan offensive scheme and many of your good NFL starting quarterbacks would struggle... Wouldn't it be nice to see Geno with Marshall, Decker, Thompkins, Smith, Amaro, Forte and Powell? Just a thought. 3.) Has SHOWN Potential: With the surrounding talent I mentioned above Geno had shown moments of very respectable QB play. Yes, Geno did make some dumb decisions, and costly turnovers at times but I would like to accredit some of that to the growing pains of being a rookie, as well as the lack of surrounding talent, and offensive scheme. Either way it cannot be denied that Geno has strung together a few good games early on his career. Also, he has a strong arm and all the physical tools to be great IF the decision making gets better, and I believe he is in much better place maturity wise, as well as a much more suitable locker room environment for him to improve as a professional. 4.) Fitz was "deceivingly" good last year: The 10-6 record, 31 TD's/15 INT's, and 4,000 yards passing make it extremely easy to overlook how limited Fitzpatrick really is skillfully. For example, Fitz had AT LEAST 10-15+ passes that should have been intercepted. He has a very evident lack of arm strength, and failed miserably it seemed on passes over 30 yards.. I mean it is absolutely painful to watch receivers stopping mid tracks to reach back behind defenders to catch a depressing Fitz long ball. He makes it hard for deep threats to thrive such as Devin Smith and Chris Owusu. In general he has a noodle arm and struggles to throw a good crisp spiral on anything over 20 yards. Also, Fitz tries to force passes a lot, for as smart as he is I really think his decision making could be better. I still cannot wrap my head around the buffalo game in week 17. Down 2 with the ball at the buffalo 25 in the 4th quarter. A Field goal takes the lead, but what does Fitz do? He fires right into the hands of a defender on a well covered post route in the end zone on 1st and 10. Was that necessary at all? Basically what I'm saying is that if Geno Smith did not get his jaw broken last year would we really have been worse off? Fitz had a great scheme with Gailey as well as a lot of talent around him. Hypothetically speaking I feel Geno would have done just as well as Fitzpatrick. Way more upside and I would absolutely love to see Geno play with talent around him, and a coach with a calm composure who has been quoted as "a leader of men." Great post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 22 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said: Interesting how you responded using stats then when someone else uses stats then suddenly its "twisted to a purpose". lol. Interesting indeed. Fail. LOL Villain, your whole argument is a fail. The bottom line is that even though Fitz is a journeyman QB, with limited skills, Macc, and Bowles are willing to wait for him, probably into camp, then just hand him the starting job. With smith in his contract year, they don't really have a lot of desire to see him play, or he would have been announced starter, issue closed. In the one year they have been here, they have brought in two hopeful starters of the future. They don't want him as starter. That's Fitz's only hole card. I'll go with Macc's obvious choice. Edit: BTW, I wasn't attacking you with twisted stats, it's just that stats in general are silly, because they can be so easily twisted in an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 19 minutes ago, flgreen said: LOL Villain, your whole argument is a fail. The bottom line is that even though Fitz is a journeyman QB, with limited skills, Macc, and Bowles are willing to wait for him, probably into camp, then just hand him the starting job. With smith in his contract year, they don't really have a lot of desire to see him play, or he would have been announced starter, issue closed. In the one year they have been here, they have brought in two hopeful starters of the future. They don't want him as starter. That's Fitz's only hole card. I'll go with Macc's obvious choice. Edit: BTW, I wasn't attacking you with twisted stats, it's just that stats in general are silly, because they can be so easily twisted in an opinion. My whole argument is a fail based on the highlighted? When my whole argument was based on fans making incompetent statements while calling a QB incompetent and showing situations based on a QB situation before this regime??? How does that have anything to do with Fitzpatrick and what Macc/Bowles are willing to wait for? And trust me, they may be willing to wait, and while they wait they confirmed rather clearly that Geno is the defacto starter...which you forgot to add (not surprised). You can go with Macc's obvious choice, which is Geno Smith since Fitzpatrick isnt a Jet. And you werent attacking me at all, you were attacking Geno with stats from a lost season while unfortunately focusing on that instead of actually dealing with the actual crux of what I presented...which is the definition of a hater, which is why I even started off my rant with this quote. Quote lol. I would just like for Jets fans to relax. We're such a knee-jerk fanbase that we'll complain about things that we simply know nothing about while at the same time never acknowledging the fact when the fact surrounds a player that isnt liked. Thanks for proving my point! You can have the last word. I'll make sure to read it, but im done exposing this nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowlesMovement Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Holy fn TLDR; thread Batman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 5 hours ago, PatsFanTX said: For Revis to stay on the Pats, it would have cost them $20MM to exercise his 2nd year option. The day the Pats signed Revis, it was for a one year rental only. That's how smart teams operate in the NFL. On a much lesser scale is the team that signs Freeney to a low veteran salary in 2016 being smart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 4 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said: My whole argument is a fail based on the highlighted? When my whole argument was based on fans making incompetent statements while calling a QB incompetent and showing situations based on a QB situation before this regime??? How does that have anything to do with Fitzpatrick and what Macc/Bowles are willing to wait for? And trust me, they may be willing to wait, and while they wait they confirmed rather clearly that Geno is the defacto starter...which you forgot to add (not surprised). You can go with Macc's obvious choice, which is Geno Smith since Fitzpatrick isnt a Jet. And you werent attacking me at all, you were attacking Geno with stats from a lost season while unfortunately focusing on that instead of actually dealing with the actual crux of what I presented...which is the definition of a hater as well as why I even started off my rant with this quote. Thanks for proving my point! You can have the last word. I'll make sure to read it, but im done exposing this nonsense. Of course smith's the defacto starter. The other 2 JAG vets they brought in were signed by other teams. Hackenberg is no where ready to do anything. The wild card is Petty. No idea where he is in his development, but I wouldn't be stunned if he becomes more endeared to the coaching staff then smith. If your right and geno is a star in waiting, the way Macc has handled this after seeing smith every day they had practice, I guess he's not a good GM.. Shame, I like the guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 15, 2016 Share Posted May 15, 2016 Just now, flgreen said: Of course smith's the defacto starter. The other 2 JAG vets they brought in were signed by other teams. Hackenberg is no where ready to do anything. The wild card is Petty. No idea where he is in his development, but I wouldn't be stunned if he becomes more endeared to the coaching staff then smith. If your right and geno is a star in waiting, the way Macc has handled this after seeing smith every day they had practice, I guess he's not a good GM.. Shame, I like the guy I read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadetree Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 I really don't give a sh*t about stats in Genos case, and I really don't give a sh*t about stats in Fitzs case. I simply do not trust Geno to be my QB. If Gailey and Bowles decide Geno is the best option by late August/early September, it won't be a surprise to us. If they decide he's the man at that time, Geno would HAVE to already displayed leadership and QB skills to have truly earned the job. It's not like they would hand him the job without him improving. If he's good enough to earn the starting gig by the day after the Snoopy bowl, we're all gonna be like, "Holy sh*t, he hasn't looked that bad, good for him!" Like discussed earlier in the thread, it would be an awesome redemption story. I would say the odds of all that actually happening is around 250-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 4 hours ago, PatsFanTX said: Of course he is, Woody could use a lesson. Lessons on how to luck into a late round accidental all-time Great QB? Lol, sure. No luck-into-Brady-GOAT, and Kraft's record as owner looks alot like the Sullivan family's, Victor Kiam's and James Orthwein's records. Jack and sh*t for titles. Save the snide mate, your entire franchises legacy is due to the Gaylord Perry of the NFL, a known, documented, and yet celebrated multi-form cheater, who also happens to be the GOAT at his position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 I have a few questions : Was Geno Smith named Starting QB of the NY Jets prior to the start of the 2015 Training camp ? Was that appointment subject to change based on the outcome of OTAs, training camp and pre-season ? With Ryan Fitzpatrick unsigned, who has been named starting QB of the NY Jets prior to the start of the 2016 OTAs and training camp ? Is that position subject to change based on the outcome of OTAs, Training Camp and Pre-Season Games ? Can the same then be also said in regards to the appointment of Ryan Fitzpatrick as the Starting QB earlier this off season in the event he should resign ? Is the addition of Kyle Petty an indication of the organization's disdain for Geno Smith and his future with the club ? Does the drafting of Hackenberg also imply a similar disdain for Bryce Petty ? Inquiring Minds want to know . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetster Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said: lol. I would just like for Jets fans to relax. We're such a knee-jerk fanbase that we'll complain about things that we simply know nothing about while at the same time never acknowledging the fact when the fact surrounds a player that isnt liked. Geno Smith has one glaring fundamental problem as a QB. This fundamental problem, though it being just one can really wreck a drive and can keep Geno Smith from being consistent. However, this fundamental problem can also be fixed with practice that leads to consistency, better talent and play design. This problem is that Geno Smith runs backward in the pocket when pressured in his face. Geno Smith is athletic, and I believe that he's been used to (Pop warner, high school, college etc) being able to allude rushers by running backward in order to buy more time to make a play. This isnt something that happened all the time for example, but this is something that he was probably able to do, and because he was able to it wasnt something that was addressed because it worked. Now he's in the NFL and is facing more complex interior pressures from Linebackers/lineman that are world class athletes and Geno is losing that battle. Add to the fact that in 2013 the Jets LG/RG's were Vlad Ducasse & Willie Colon and his WR's were Santonio Holmes (coming back from LisFranc and was never the same), Stephen Hill and Jeremy Kerley. Meaning that not only did a rookie QB who doesnt know how to properly handle pressure up the middle have Vlad Ducasse as a LG (terrible) and Willie Colon at RG (mediocre at best) but his #1 WR never fully recovered from his injury, his #2 WR is a certified bust and the WR with the most production is his #3 Jeremy Kerley. However, im not finished. None of Geno's starting WR's played more than 12 games in 2013. Holmes played 11, Kerley & Hill played 12. This means for a quarter of Geno's rookie season he had to rely on WR's such as Clyde Gates (played in 6 games) as a fill-in. Now, this is just a perspective of the talent Geno had around him. Now lets get into the meat of this....Geno being a "stupid" quarterback. Lets look at who Geno had to learn from. Geno's head coach (The guy in charge) is Rex Ryan. Rex is literally a glorified defensive coordinator. Rex was there to coach and call the defense. He had absolutely nothing to do with the offensive side of the ball. Now I can imagine how this would impact every offensive player on the team...but especially a rookie offensive player who happens to be the new QB. The offensive coordinator is the newly acquired Marty Morningwhatever, who just took over from Tony Sparano who he himself only lasted 1 season. People also talk about why they want Fitz back because he's a "leader" and he can help the young guys. I can agree with that, and with that said, who was the "leader" for Geno Smith? Mark Sanchez, a guy who went to town ripping Idzik a new one after he was injured in that preseason game? Exactly. Geno ends the season going 8-8 (2 games better than the previous season of 6-10) and one of his main problems his rookie season was handling pressure up the middle, taking bad sacks which put the team out of fieldgoal range etc. However, as a passer he was below average, but showed signs...though he was a rookie who was originally intended to sit before the Sanchez preseason injury due to incompetent coaching by Rex Ryan. He completes 56% of his passes 12 TD's and 21 INT's. Now for Geno's 2nd season (The season where sh*t just got ridiculous). The Jets know that they are still in the middle of purging the team of bad contracts by now 2nd year GM John Idzik. The problem is, the Jets arent hitting on draft picks and the Jets team is now getting older and slower. Idzik is being super frugal with spending, deciding not to resign Austin Howard but instead signs Breno Giacomini in order to save a measly 100,000 dollars. He also lets Ducasse go and replaces him with 2nd year player Brian Winters. Idzik also lets Santonio Holmes go and replaces him with Eric Decker. However now, we have a problem. Not only has the offensive line gotten worse at the RT posiiton with Giacomini and Brian Winters, but Willie Colon is a year older and his more below mediocre than he is mediocre, but now add to the fact that the Jets allowed the defense to go to sh*t. They traded Revis in the 2013 offseason, Cromartie is gone in the 2014 offseason, Dee Milliner had an injured rookie season on his way to now being the #1 CB in 2014. Dimitri Patterson is signed by Idzik in the offseason to replace Cro but then he goes AWOL and is released around preseason so now we have an injury prone #1 CB and no #2 CB. The Jets draft a SS in Calvin Pryor but because of the lack of FS talent they decide to place Pryor as a FS and plug in Antonio Allen as the SS while benching last year's starter Dawan Landry. We all know what happened...this sh*t completely fell apart. Week 3 Decker injures his hammy and was not the same until Week 17, Dee Milliner only plays 3 games, Calvin Pryor is getting destroyed as a FS and is actually benched, Brian Winters is looking bad at LG, Willie Colon is looking like he's over the hill at RG, Giacomini is not looking like an upgrade at RT, D'Brick is regressing, Stephen Hill sucks, David Nelson tries to compensate for the injured Decker but cant, Jeremy Kerley is basically the Jets best receiver during Deckers limited availability, the Chris Johnson experiment didnt work because they never put him on the field....etc. Mid season Idzik realizes the team has no viable targets and trades for Percy Harvin. Harvin is brand new and doesnt know the playbook. He has to learn on the fly and is basically limited....and it showed. However, Rex Ryan makes the decision to bench Geno Smith for Michael Vick. Vick looks terrible and after two games Geno is again the starter. However, with Geno back in the line up he now has a still injured Eric Decker and now Percy Harvin. Geno statstically rebounds completing 88 of his last 134 passes completing 66% of his passes and throwing 6 TD's to only 3 INT's over this last 6 games of the season. The Jets end the season 4-12. The HC is still Rex and Rex still doesnt know the offense and MM has proven to be a below average OC and literally cost the Jets a game with a stupid ass Timeout call against the Packers. Now, how does anyone expect Geno Smith to learn from Rex Ryan when it has been confirmed numerous times that in practices Rex Ryan isnt even around the offensive players? How good was Marty Morningwhatever as an OC? What offensive talent can we even speak of that has been developed since Rex has been the HC? What offensive talent did MM develop when he was the coordinator? People keep talking about how Geno Smith is so stupid and he is incapable to learning anything. My problem is I dont know any other offensive player off the top of my head that I can say that Rex Ryan's coaching staff developed. Whether it was Schotty at OC, Tony Sparano at OC or MM at OC. Can anyone think of a player? It gets to the point where Jets fans should shut their mouth and open their eyes. Rex Ryan and his coaching staff has never done a thing considered productive on offense. The closest they got was Shonn Greene, but that even flamed out the moment Alan Faneca and Damien Woody left the team. Im not saying that people dont have the right not to like a player, but expect to be called out when hate is just being thrown all around with no facts to back it up. I can sit here and admit that Geno Smith has a problem dealing with pressure in his face and he makes the wrong decision. However, I can also admit that there werent any teachers or leaders around here either. What has MM done since leaving the Jets? Has Rex ever tried to become an actual head coach by paying attention to the offensive side of the ball? Now, with that out of the way lets get to the real. Outside of Geno running backward when dealing with pressure, what is his problem? He threw 21 INT's his rookie season and threw only 13 the next season....which was less than what Fitz threw this season. Yet you hear about him being a "turnover machine". Geno Smith was one of the better passers in the entire league when it came to passes 20 yards or longer. Why dont we hear about that? Now just imagine Geno Smith being able to sit for an entire year under an OC that is actually an OC, with a HC that is actually a HC, with targets that are actual targets (#1 WR duo in the league last year), a rushing game that is actually a rushing game (Ivory registered his first 1,000 yard season last year for Chan Gailey and we just upgraded to Matt Forte). Chan Gailey's offense is designed on getting the ball out quickly, which worked very well for Brian Winters last season. And yes, I know about Geno and the Raiders game, but if you projected his numbers from that game he would have had over 4,000 yards on the season with 32 TD's and only 16 INT's while completing 65% of his passes. Keep in mind he came into that game cold, with no chemistry and just came back from an injury in which he missed the entire preseason and the first 2 weeks of the season, so it wasnt like he was even practicing all that time. So how freaking bad was the game.....really? Jets fans need to ease up. Thank you! You've said everything I've been saying in tidbits & were able to put it all in one post. Bravo. There are very few young QBs that would have been able to overcome all of that clusterf*ck & succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no psls Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 10 hours ago, Mike135 said: @BowlesMovement@Rangers9@BigRy56@JazzyJet@Patriot Killa@mickeyshuler@rkw522@Smashmouth@ljr@Charlie Brown@AFJF@jetsfellow@Bcess@Saul Goodman@Pcola@Warfish@flgreen@GandWFan@Better2bgreenthanblue@slowmoe57@CrazyCarl40@New York Mick@Anthony Jet@Joe Jets fan@Ben Had@no psls@jetfuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 11 minutes ago, Tinstar said: I have a few questions : Was Geno Smith named Starting QB of the NY Jets prior to the start of the 2015 Training camp ? Was that appointment subject to change based on the outcome of OTAs, training camp and pre-season ? With Ryan Fitzpatrick unsigned, who has been named starting QB of the NY Jets prior to the start of the 2016 OTAs and training camp ? Is that position subject to change based on the outcome of OTAs, Training Camp and Pre-Season Games ? Can the same then be also said in regards to the appointment of Ryan Fitzpatrick as the Starting QB earlier this off season in the event he should resign ? Is the addition of Kyle Petty an indication of the organization's disdain for Geno Smith and his future with the club ? Does the drafting of Hackenberg also imply a similar disdain for Bryce Petty ? Inquiring Minds want to know . Kyle Petty signed with the Jets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 16 minutes ago, Jetster said: Thank you! You've said everything I've been saying in tidbits & were able to put it all in one post. Bravo. There are very few young QBs that would have been able to overcome all of that clusterf*ck & succeed. Thanks for reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Villain The Foe just did this to all the Geno haters........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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