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If Fitz isn't here by 24th


Dcronin
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Is he gone?

Because, what the hell is the point, from his POV, or the Jets, of simply wasting 2 months or so until training camp?

There's tons of good work to be done. Especially with the new RBs, and with rookie QB watching.

I feel if he's not here when team activities start, then he's gone. The Jets are stupid if they don't shake a few dollars loose, and he's stupid if he doesn't take those few dollars. But if they come up with nothing, then that's that. I guess he's going to retire or go back to being a backup.

Such an unfortunate situation.

DC

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To bring in Fitz, we'd have to say goodbye to release Mo. I believe that's how Mac is looking at it and he should. There's no other way Mac can fit him AND keep Mo unless you do a complete overhaul of 2-3 players' salaries n push the cap hit back a year or two, in which case he turns into Trader Mike in respect to cap management. 

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The situations with Fitz and Mo are almost contradictory right now. Fan opinion aside, taking the Jets at their word they believe Fitzpatrick gives them the best chance for a winner. On the other hand, if they can't lock up Mo this season they'll pay him $16M to play out the year with Geno, Hackenberg, or Petty. After that, we lose him and IF we stay away from UFAs when we'll have the cap room to sign them, then we'd get a late 3rd round pick in 2018. 

Unless they truly believe Geno Smith (or another kid who's never taken an NFL snap) is going to QB this team to the playoffs against this nutty schedule, it's just playing out like we're trying to get a little bit pregnant. I could see it if Mo played on offense, as that more directly relates to developing a young QB (like Clady, like Forte, like Powell). This just seems strange.

Hopefully they're able to come to agreeable terms with him on an extended deal so we're not keeping him for 1 more year at $16M just for PR reasons.

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Now that no one wanted to trade for Mo, let's figure out a way to keep him. 5 year contract, Fitz would only be a 1 year bridge anyway with a 15% chance of getting to a Super Bowl this year. Mo is more important than Fitz for our future.

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2 hours ago, AFJF said:

Just to be on the safe side and make sure there's plenty of money for Fitz and a bit of wiggle room, I think the Jets will have no choice but to cut Mo, Sheldon and Leonard Williams.  There's really no way around it at all.  Literally zero options aside from those.  IIRC, they'll have to surrender a few draft picks too.

And Revis. Now that Sammy Watkins foot is broke don't need him anymore

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19 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Now that no one wanted to trade for Mo, let's figure out a way to keep him. 5 year contract, Fitz would only be a 1 year bridge anyway with a 15% chance of getting to a Super Bowl this year. Mo is more important than Fitz for our future.

Teams wanted to trade for Mo, the Jets just approached it wrong. They should have traded Mo last year while still under his rookie contract. My opinion is, what teams didnt want to do is to give the Jets a high profile draft pick(s) then turn around and make Wilk one of the highest paid players in the game. 

Wilk should have been traded last season because it was evident for the past 2 years that the Jets werent interested in paying Mo. We've been talking about this scenario since the hiring of Idzik. 

Paying Wilk this year on a tag isnt a bad decision though. If we couldnt trade him then let him play on the tag and you get one more year out of him in his prime before letting him walk. Heck, you could probably franchise him again next season because we'll have alot of cap room after the season. We'll be able to afford 120% Franchise him again and try to trade him again....but this time the Jets need to be realistic in compensation since no one is going to give up a 1st round pick (or maybe even a 2nd) and pay Wilk 100+ milliion. 

If you can get a 3rd rounder then take it. 

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35 minutes ago, Ghost said:

It baffles on my mind how people actually want to let Mo "walk" for a measly 3rd round pick. 

 

Not even in his prime yet. 

It baffles my mind that you could make this claim. Who wants this? I don't think anybody wants this at all. What I think people want/wanted, in approximate order:

1. Lock up Mo long term on "team friendly" terms (anyone's own idea of what that number would be, but presumably under $16M/year max at this point).

2. Lock up Mo long term no matter what it takes under next year's tag amount of $19M/year. [some don't even want to go this high on a deal, feeling the number is too high for him, in particularly when weighed against who else the team also has]

3. If we are unable to reach an agreement with Mo, trade him for a minimum of a 2016 mid-first round pick plus more [roughly Maccagnan's alleged asking price, which was a first round pick plus something more, which was probably dependent upon how high the 1st round pick ended up being, to add up to the value of at least a mid-1st round pick]

4. If we are unable to reach an agreement with Mo, and can't get higher or mid- first round value for him in trade, then trade him for any first round pick in 2016.

5. If we are unable to reach an agreement with Mo, and can't get a 1st round pick in 2016, then try for a 1st round pick next year or a high 2nd rounder this year (these are supposedly/theoretically equal).

5. If we are unable to reach an agreement with Mo, and couldn't even get a high 2nd rounder this year or a 1st rounder next year, then trade Mo for anything we can get above the "woulda been" compensatory pick value (late 3rd round pick in 2017).

6. If we are unable to reach an agreement with Mo, and can't get a 3rd rounder for him, just trade him for anything we can get, or cut him outright, to avoid this year's $15.7M cap charge (either because it's a dead-end season so it would amount to throwing away good money at bad even though they like Mo, or because they want to use that money to re-sign Fitzpatrick, or because some feel those 2 reasons are one and the same).

*7. If we can't lock up Mo and can't get decent value for him, then tag him this year and let him play out the season, hoping we might be able to get a deal done later on. Next year try again, but we have no leverage since he is virtually untaggable with a # at $19M. At that point, if someone else throws him a number we can't match, then let him go and recoup a 3rd round comp pick in 2018 (which we only get if we lose more UFAs than we sign in 2017). 

* #7 can be the eventual desired outcome for some, but may fall anywhere between #2 and #7.

 

Personally I think option #7 sucks unless it works out that we lock him up this spring/summer. Letting him play out a year where we don't have a realistic chance of a SB, and using up some $16M to do so, only to lose him after the season, is a big waste (even if it is the best PR move available to Maccagnan).

Since this offseason began, nowhere did I see anyone want to trade Mo for a 3rd round pick. There are any number of things people preferred instead. 

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2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Fitz is coming back.  Like it or not and the Jets will overpay.  likely $10mm to play 6 games this year.

Good chance this happens. I think at this point, since there's little danger of him signing elsewhere for more than the Jets' current offer, they may wait to see how the current 3 look before caving.

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30 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Good chance this happens. I think at this point, since there's little danger of him signing elsewhere for more than the Jets' current offer, they may wait to see how the current 3 look before caving.

I hope that's exactly what they're doing. And if they think they can live with two of the three guys starting games for them this season, they let Fitz spend more time with his kids. 

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6 hours ago, j4jets said:

To bring in Fitz, we'd have to say goodbye to release Mo. I believe that's how Mac is looking at it and he should. There's no other way Mac can fit him AND keep Mo unless you do a complete overhaul of 2-3 players' salaries n push the cap hit back a year or two, in which case he turns into Trader Mike in respect to cap management. 

Good point. I think another thing the organization as a whole needs to do is stop talking about Fitz. No more interviews with Marshall and Decker talking about the Jets QB situation. This is a potentially devastating situation. If Fitz doesn't come back, how can the Jets then turn to Geno Smith and say, "Your our guy" ? Mac recently said Geno could be a "good backup" for Fitz. If that is truly the case then the Jets have no other choice than to meet him halfway and take the franchise tag off Mo. I believe the Jets are going to lose him next year with no compensation, so let him test the market. The Jets can always match, if they can find the dollars under the cap. Or sign Mo and just close the door on Fitz. IMO Fitz is not going to be appreciably better than last year and in fact will probably regress this season. Mac has got to sh*t or get off the pot. Mo is a franchise type player who can help for a long time, while Fitz is a stopgap QB to one of the young guys who will compete for the job next year. I say sign Mo long term and let Fitz slide.

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1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

Nothing is stupider than cutting players and restructuring contracts to pay a complete journeyman JAG who will start 1 year max. 

That sounds good, but Idzik didn't spend money in 2014 in an attempt to build a better team in future years. How'd that work out for him?

GMs can't always worry about 2 or 3 years from now. If Mac thinks this team can go 10-6 with Fitz or 6-10 with Geno then he may need to sacrifice a little in the future to bring back Fitz. 

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12 hours ago, Dcronin said:

Is he gone?

Because, what the hell is the point, from his POV, or the Jets, of simply wasting 2 months or so until training camp?

There's tons of good work to be done. Especially with the new RBs, and with rookie QB watching.

I feel if he's not here when team activities start, then he's gone. The Jets are stupid if they don't shake a few dollars loose, and he's stupid if he doesn't take those few dollars. But if they come up with nothing, then that's that. I guess he's going to retire or go back to being a backup.

Such an unfortunate situation.

DC

I disagree. Fitz had a broken leg last year so he didn't do much in the offseason. I like the thought of seeing what the other guys can really do. If Gailey and the offense staff is like oh crap, then you can bring Fitz in later in June. Still plenty of time before camp. :)

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Just now, Maxman said:

I disagree. Fitz had a broken leg last year so he didn't do much in the offseason. I like the thought of seeing what the other guys can really do. If Gailey and the offense staff is like oh crap, then you can bring Fitz in later in June. Still plenty of time before camp. :)

Unfortunately you can't say oh crap until he plays in an actual game. I honestly don't care if Geno is picking up the offense that's not his problem, his problem is applying that to game action where he struggles. If Geno knew he was going to drop back and not get touched he would be an all pro but he does know those things. It's amazing how fast you unlearn sh*t in the heat of Battle and revert back to being crap. That's what an NFL QB has to deal with and most or a good percentage just can't handle it. Its what separates the Bad from the good from the great. Game awareness also suffers like knowing when to throw the ball away if you have more downs to make it happen. 

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4 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Game awareness also suffers like knowing when to throw the ball away if you have more downs to make it happen

Exactly!  Week 17.  Playoffs on the line, 4th quarter, inside the red zone, down by 2, 2nd down...  and Geno forces a throw that's intercepted.

Oh wait...

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2 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Unfortunately you can't say oh crap until he plays in an actual game. I honestly don't care if Geno is picking up the offense that's not his problem, his problem is applying that to game action where he struggles. If Geno knew he was going to drop back and not get touched he would be an all pro but he does know those things. It's amazing how fast you unlearn sh*t in the heat of Battle and revert back to being crap. That's what an NFL QB has to deal with and most or a good percentage just can't handle it. Its what separates the Bad from the good from the great. Game awareness also suffers like knowing when to throw the ball away if you have more downs to make it happen. 

I agree with those points, and also that the whole point of practicing is to get better than you would be without practice.  Some people can do without practice better than others.  But is there any player in the NFL who shows no improvement from practicing?

Last I heard Tom Brady practices a lot.  So does Aaron Rodgers.  Drew Brees?  Yep, him, too.

And this year unlike last year the Jets have an opportunity to diversify their passing attack.  Amaro will be back and has not worked with Gailey before.  The situation at 3rd wideout is not set.  And Forte is new to the team altogether.  The Jets can have a much better attack if they can add them all to the Marshall and Decker tandem.  Even there more practice would probably be helpful.

But on your record it is in games that count that Smith blows, so the point is not giving him more reps.  It would be far better to cut him.

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Just now, Mike135 said:

Exactly!  Week 17.  Playoffs on the line, 4th quarter, inside the red zone, down by 2, 2nd down...  and Geno forces a throw that's intercepted.

Oh wait...

Oh wait the Defender made a great play and undercut the WR who should have made a batter play on the ball. Fitz was not the problem on that play since he got the one on one matchup he wanted. The end result is not always the QB's fault.

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3 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

I agree with those points, and also that the whole point of practicing is to get better than you would be without practice.  Some people can do without practice better than others.  But is there any player in the NFL who shows no improvement from practicing?

Last I heard Tom Brady practices a lot.  So does Aaron Rodgers.  Drew Brees?  Yep, him, too.

And this year unlike last year the Jets have an opportunity to diversify their passing attack.  Amaro will be back and has not worked with Gailey before.  The situation at 3rd wideout is not set.  And Forte is new to the team altogether.  The Jets can have a much better attack if they can add them all to the Marshall and Decker tandem.  Even there more practice would probably be helpful.

But on your record it is in games that count that Smith blows, so the point is not giving him more reps.  It would be far better to cut him.

Well yeah we finally have a QB who played well so by adding more weapons He should improve even more since last year he had zero check down options yet people on this board evaluating the QB position can't see past blind hatred based of what a guy did in his previous years on poor offenses. As I said, if guys like Jim Plunket and Rich Gannon came to the Jets this Board would have got out the pitch forks, no possible way a QB can find the right situation and great talent to work with.

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55 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Unfortunately you can't say oh crap until he plays in an actual game. I honestly don't care if Geno is picking up the offense that's not his problem, his problem is applying that to game action where he struggles. If Geno knew he was going to drop back and not get touched he would be an all pro but he does know those things. It's amazing how fast you unlearn sh*t in the heat of Battle and revert back to being crap. That's what an NFL QB has to deal with and most or a good percentage just can't handle it. Its what separates the Bad from the good from the great. Game awareness also suffers like knowing when to throw the ball away if you have more downs to make it happen. 

Oh if he is bad in minicamp you can say oh crap early, :)

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39 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Well yeah we finally have a QB who played well so by adding more weapons He should improve even more since last year he had zero check down options yet people on this board evaluating the QB position can't see past blind hatred based of what a guy did in his previous years on poor offenses. As I said, if guys like Jim Plunket and Rich Gannon came to the Jets this Board would have got out the pitch forks, no possible way a QB can find the right situation and great talent to work with.

Yep, the point is that the time has come to end this and do a reasonable deal.  The FO can't muster up any enthusiasm for some other option, and Fitz has not found another team to compete against the Jets in any bidding.  Both sides need each other, and there's no benefit in stringing it out any longer.  Time to do a reasonable deal, and then they can cut Smith.

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5 hours ago, Ex-Rex said:

Good point. I think another thing the organization as a whole needs to do is stop talking about Fitz. No more interviews with Marshall and Decker talking about the Jets QB situation. This is a potentially devastating situation. If Fitz doesn't come back, how can the Jets then turn to Geno Smith and say, "Your our guy" ? Mac recently said Geno could be a "good backup" for Fitz. If that is truly the case then the Jets have no other choice than to meet him halfway and take the franchise tag off Mo. I believe the Jets are going to lose him next year with no compensation, so let him test the market. The Jets can always match, if they can find the dollars under the cap. Or sign Mo and just close the door on Fitz. IMO Fitz is not going to be appreciably better than last year and in fact will probably regress this season. Mac has got to sh*t or get off the pot. Mo is a franchise type player who can help for a long time, while Fitz is a stopgap QB to one of the young guys who will compete for the job next year. I say sign Mo long term and let Fitz slide.

Can you source this?  I don't believe he said this.  I think he said if Fitz comes back then Geno would be the #2 but if he doesn't come back they feel confident starting Geno going forward like it was last year before injury.

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13 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

Yep, the point is that the time has come to end this and do a reasonable deal.  The FO can't muster up any enthusiasm for some other option, and Fitz has not found another team to compete against the Jets in any bidding.  Both sides need each other, and there's no benefit in stringing it out any longer.  Time to do a reasonable deal, and then they can cut Smith.

If its going to get done it will be done in the next 4-5 weeks before mandatory camp begins. 

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