Is Geno a leader?

[The Crusher]

17 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

#bullsh*t. 

Nice try with the "patting yourself on the back" because you own a business.

Everyone is a leader, everyone's idea of what a leader is...is whats different. 

I can't pat myself on the back can't reach cause fat.  23 years Self employed with between 3-14 employees. Some people have a natural predisposition towards being a solid leader.  Some simply don't.  Not that they can't lead because they can, but 9-10 times  no place you wanna go.  

[jetrider]

18 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Thnk about it. You asked the question right? 

 

Whats the point of asking the question when you're going to manipulate the situation to be right anyway? 

Example #1. If no coach ever did it then you're right. 

Example #2. If a coach DID do it then he's an "idiot" which means that he doesnt count so then you're right anyway. 

C'mon. 

That's like in grade school when the teacher says, "Get your feet off the desk! You do that at home?"

Yes = "Well, you don't do it here."

No = "Well, you don't do it here either." 

[Mainejet]

1 hour ago, LIJetsFan said:

So I think pretty much we are in agreement on most things:  1. There is no better QB available right now.  2. Fitz should sign for what we're offering.

What I don't appreciate is your idea that Fitz will definitely be back thus you don't need to think about what else might happen under center.  That is where Geno comes in.  You think he's hopeless and I think, for free, he deserves one last shot.  Why one last shot?    Better team to help him out and better OC to help him out.  

Oh and one further point, if (you might say when) Geno craps out and Hack is handed the reigns, at least the game plan will be familiar same since they both have the same skill set.     

Yes, we do differ on that. I can find no earthly reason why Geno should get so much as a stick of gum from the NYJ. The guy had almost 2 full seasons to show his value. What we showed was that he was not worth holding on to. He was given a legitimate shot for which he spit the bit. I do not believe in second chances not when it comes to the NYJ. Then 3 seasons into his NFL career, when he should have become the consensus leader of the team, he gets into an altercation with a teammate over chump change. There is no better example IMO to show immaturity and selfishness. It is the very reason he never deserves another shot at being the QB.

The New York Mets traded Vince Coleman in the offseason immediately after he threw a firecracker at a 1 year old girl. I think what Geno did is THAT level of immaturity, stupidity. How is this not the very same example? Why should the punishment be any different? 

[Jet Nut]

10 hours ago, BowlesMovement said:

Not knowing how to lead and not having the ability to lead are completely different.

Pretty much is a dance around the comment but Namath says he had to learn how to be a leader.  You don't get to tell him he's wrong 

[Jet Nut]

8 hours ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Listen the guy was a leader. He just didn't know how to do it. Guys were still following Joe. He just wasn't going anywhere productive.

You have to both be a leader then actually lead. If you have no confidence in yourself no one will follow you anywhere. 

Point is that he had to learn how to be a leader.  Whether he had it in him or not he had to learn how to be one, convey it to his teammates.  Until he did he displayed no leadership ability.  Point isn't hat Geno will learn, point is someone said you can't learn to be one and Namath disagrees 

[Jet Nut]

8 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

The man who famous for I want to kiss you Suzie, how serious can you take anything he says seriously.

For all the talent Namath had, he didn't exactly have the career worthy of his ability. Maybe if he was a true leader that wasn't consumed with himself first, his teams would have won more games.

You're clueless and really need to stop.  

 

[BUM-KNEE]

2 hours ago, The Crusher said:

I can't pat myself on the back can't reach cause fat.  23 years Self employed with between 3-14 employees. Some people have a natural predisposition towards being a solid leader.  Some simply don't.  Not that they can't lead because they can, but 9-10 times  no place you wanna go.  

Most people are born with the attributes, they just need to hone them through self awareness.

[Villain The Foe]

4 hours ago, The Crusher said:

I can't pat myself on the back can't reach cause fat.  23 years Self employed with between 3-14 employees. Some people have a natural predisposition towards being a solid leader.  Some simply don't.  Not that they can't lead because they can, but 9-10 times  no place you wanna go.  

The perspective of what a leader is different. People generally tend to use their own level of success as the bar of what leadership is. Sure, that works for the individual setting the bar. Perfect example. Magic Johnson. Great basketball player and a winner at that too. He puts the Lakers on his back when Kareem goes down etc. Everyone looked at him as a leader of men on the court. Few years later he has an interview stating that he has HIV and would have to retire. You think his wife or children at that moment viewed him as a leader...the most important people (supposedly) in his life? 

 

 

Business ownership success or success in general can be based on leadership, but its not the only qualifications for what a leader is or its role, yet sometimes success can give a false representation of leadership generally speaking. 

 

You're a leader in my eyes. Why? Because a few months back something happened here and you were the only one to pick their head up and say something to me. And thats before I knew you owned a business for 23 years. That's leadership my friend. Acknowledging something and being willing to address it head on or showing your support and respect. Thats the type of leadership that only the poeple who know "you" know. There's many people like that in the world, where that level of leadership....or loyalty doesnt reflect in the business world or to the general public, but only in the eyes of a particular individual for example. 

Some people are great at supporting a team, they're not the typical "leader of men", they're just  simply part of the "men". But it takes something quite special inside someone to be able to be that humble and selfless that they're willing to support the people around them and help them be the best that "they" can be...and in the process being the best supporter he himself can be. Kinda like that third string QB that's been in the league 10 years, never played a professional down in his life but his worth or value upon the 53 man roster can really set the tone. Yet he's humble enough and appreciative enough even when the 1st stringer gets all the credit. When's the last time we've considered that person holding that role a leader? Generally, we dont. But the 53 men around him....most certainly do. 

 

Leadership comes in all different flavors....like people. 

[ljr]

7 hours ago, Mainejet said:

Fitz is the BEST option for 2016. Do you see any great solutions out there? Please let me in on all those keen insights that you have that can solve the NYJ's QB issues in 2016.

Now while I am waiting for your input, I say Ryan Fitzpatrick is our BEST and ONLY option for 2016. If Mac and Bowles were to actually be psychotic enough to go into the 2016 season with Geno Smith, they would instantly be in danger of losing their jobs. The fan base would see Geno's horrendous play and then turn on Mac and Bowles.

In regards to the amount of money Fitz gets paid? I have never really discussed that at length, but here's how I feel:

1) Fitz has every right to attempt to seek out the best deal he possibly can. He will not be playing for much longer and he must earn the big bucks while he can.

2) Fitz real, TRUE value is whatever the market says his value is. Right now? The way I see it is he's got only one offer on the table from one team and that team is the NYJ. The NYJ claim Ryan Fitzpatrick is worth approximately 7 million per season (articles vary on what the Jets offer is to Fitz, some say 8 or even 9 million per season). So by my way of thinking, the market has spoken in regards to Fitz. Fitz will need to start to grasp what the NYJ are oiffering.

3) IMO, Fitz BEST chance at having a repeat performance of 2015 is in NY. He built chemistry with guys like Marshall, Decker, and Powell. In another city he would need to start all over again.

4) And all those accusations he claims? Like he'd rather not play in 2016 than accept what the Jets are offering? That's 100% STUPIDITY. It's a complete lame attempt at trying to pass the NYJ and their fans off as idiots. If Ryan Fitz Patrick decides to NOT play because the offer he got was not high enough? Then RYAN FITZPATRICK would be the biggest idiot on the planet. But Fitz is NOT an idiot. He's actually a very intelligent well spoken guy. Therefore, he WILL play for the NYJ. Come hell or high water he will play for the NYJ in 2016. There simply is no other way. The NYJ need Fitz. Fitz needs the NYJ.

I completely agree with your third paragraph. Fitz cannot throw the long ball and everyone knows it, but once again want/wish until your blue in the face. The BEST and ONLY solution for the NYJ in 2016 is Ryan Fitzpatrick. So, we as Jets fans will need to wait for Petty or Hack to develop and maybe some time down the line we'll have a QB that can stretch the field. Until then, Fitz is the man.

I never said Fitz was a franchise QB. I am merely stating what everyone knows right now. Fitz is the best and only option for the NYJ in 2016.

Very well said

[afjetsfan]

Wow, lots of posts in this topic.  Here are my thoughts.

Is Geno a leader?  No.

Ok, now what?  Fitz?  I've gone and re-watched all the games from the 2015 campaign and you know, Fitz is a special QB.  Is he physically gifted?  HELL NO!  But the dude exudes drive, passion, desire.  What does Geno exude?  In the two seasons I watched him...he exuded, laziness, confusion, frustration and apathy.  Yep.  harsh, but true.   

So what do we do?  Sign Fitz (I hope).  Will he dazzle us with his arm? NO. Will he amaze us with his deep ball? **** No.  But he will find a way to win!  

 

[j4jets]

40 minutes ago, afjetsfan said:

Wow, lots of posts in this topic.  Here are my thoughts.

Is Geno a leader?  No.

Ok, now what?  Fitz?  I've gone and re-watched all the games from the 2015 campaign and you know, Fitz is a special QB.  Is he physically gifted?  HELL NO!  But the dude exudes drive, passion, desire.  What does Geno exude?  In the two seasons I watched him...he exuded, laziness, confusion, frustration and apathy.  Yep.  harsh, but true.   

So what do we do?  Sign Fitz (I hope).  Will he dazzle us with his arm? NO. Will he amaze us with his deep ball? **** No.  But he will find a way to win!  

 

 

Lololololololikolololloooolllllolol

[Villain The Foe]

2 hours ago, afjetsfan said:

Wow, lots of posts in this topic.  Here are my thoughts.

Is Geno a leader?  No.

Ok, now what?  Fitz?  I've gone and re-watched all the games from the 2015 campaign and you know, Fitz is a special QB.  Is he physically gifted?  HELL NO!  But the dude exudes drive, passion, desire.  What does Geno exude?  In the two seasons I watched him...he exuded, laziness, confusion, frustration and apathy.  Yep.  harsh, but true.   

So what do we do?  Sign Fitz (I hope).  Will he dazzle us with his arm? NO. Will he amaze us with his deep ball? **** No.  But he will find a way to win!  

 

lol

[JetBlue]

On 5/21/2016 at 4:42 PM, BowlesMovement said:

No it's not, leadership is a personality trait, it can be improved, but it's not a learned trait. 

Not true. Leadership can be learned.  Also leadership also is manifested in many different ways.

[Xtina]

On 5/21/2016 at 5:16 PM, Jetscode1 said:

It's a skill set.  All can learn yet many choose not to.  Geno's young.  I do not know the man but I'm hoping he could step up.

Maybe the air force self selects for people with that inherent trait already 

[The Crusher]

15 hours ago, BUM-KNEE said:

Most people are born with the attributes, they just need to hone them through self awareness.

Yes just some more than others.  

[The Crusher]

14 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

The perspective of what a leader is different. People generally tend to use their own level of success as the bar of what leadership is. Sure, that works for the individual setting the bar. Perfect example. Magic Johnson. Great basketball player and a winner at that too. He puts the Lakers on his back when Kareem goes down etc. Everyone looked at him as a leader of men on the court. Few years later he has an interview stating that he has HIV and would have to retire. You think his wife or children at that moment viewed him as a leader...the most important people (supposedly) in his life? 

 

 

Business ownership success or success in general can be based on leadership, but its not the only qualifications for what a leader is or its role, yet sometimes success can give a false representation of leadership generally speaking. 

 

You're a leader in my eyes. Why? Because a few months back something happened here and you were the only one to pick their head up and say something to me. And thats before I knew you owned a business for 23 years. That's leadership my friend. Acknowledging something and being willing to address it head on or showing your support and respect. Thats the type of leadership that only the poeple who know "you" know. There's many people like that in the world, where that level of leadership....or loyalty doesnt reflect in the business world or to the general public, but only in the eyes of a particular individual for example. 

Some people are great at supporting a team, they're not the typical "leader of men", they're just  simply part of the "men". But it takes something quite special inside someone to be able to be that humble and selfless that they're willing to support the people around them and help them be the best that "they" can be...and in the process being the best supporter he himself can be. Kinda like that third string QB that's been in the league 10 years, never played a professional down in his life but his worth or value upon the 53 man roster can really set the tone. Yet he's humble enough and appreciative enough even when the 1st stringer gets all the credit. When's the last time we've considered that person holding that role a leader? Generally, we dont. But the 53 men around him....most certainly do. 

 

Leadership comes in all different flavors....like people. 

You make great points but I seem to look at leadership differently.  I think everyone has moments or situations where they can lead and have success.  Just long term over a period of tremendous highs and lows will usually separate situational leaders from those who were born to lead.  Winning and success insulate leaders.  The old, " Winning cures all ills thing."  To me truth in leadership to me is one who can rally his cause with a mouthful of his " own" teeth.  I have had success and I have had failures and honestly my career has been midland with periods of blessed success.  Luckily I follow the greatest leader of all time my brother.

[Mike135]

Was he a good leader?  No.  What young player is?  Especially one in a crap situation.

Is he a good leader?  No clue.  Tough to judge from PR events.

Will he become a good leader?  Does Brady like playing with soft balls?  (Hint:  Yes.)

[Warfish]

15 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Leadership comes in all different flavors....like people. 

If Geno self-identifies as a Leader, does that make him one, and can he then use the Leaders restrooms in the locker room?

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

You make great points but I seem to look at leadership differently.  I think everyone has moments or situations where they can lead and have success.  Just long term over a period of tremendous highs and lows will usually separate situational leaders from those who were born to lead.  Winning and success insulate leaders.  The old, " Winning cures all ills thing."  To me truth in leadership to me is one who can rally his cause with a mouthful of his " own" teeth.  I have had success and I have had failures and honestly my career has been midland with periods of blessed success.  Luckily I follow the greatest leader of all time my brother.

I can agree, but situational leaders are still leaders nonetheless. Leadership is subjective, depending if you're a 5 Star General looking at a Captain, a Captain looking at a Private or a Private looking at a Captain and General. 

Everyone has a role. Being willing to accept and play your role is being a leader. And sure, many people have a type of personality to where they are more efficient in particular leadership roles, that could be the talent that they were born with. However, that type of talent/ability isnt designed for everyone. Many people scoff at weeds and dandelion's, but how bland would the world be if we only had roses? If weeds, dandelions and roses didnt have a place, they wouldnt be here. 

 

Leadership is subjective because everyone is born with a particular type of talent for a particular purpose. The true problem imo why most people never find their talent is because leadership is always associated by success, things tangible and is always placed in some type of box.  But leadership (no matter the type) requires the individual not to be afraid to fail. Failure teaches those willing to learn, success is nothing more than a byproduct, its never guaranteed and really teaches nothing. Its the "will, discipline and humbleness" thats the goal, and you can only get that from failing then learning from your failures, not by being successful.

 

Your brother is the greatest leader to you not just because of his successes....but his ability to "see it in his mind and actually believe it". That level of faith in himself/ability is one of the true values of men....not the byproduct called "success". Your brother could have failed at everything he ever laid his eyes on, but I can guarantee that if that was the case it wouldnt have made you look at  your brother any differently, because your brother, being a true leader, would have taught you how to deal with failure gracefully. <<<<Talk about being a winner/leader! 

Being willing to fail, failing and dealing with that failure is a sign of a true leader. It pushes you to find out more about yourself. Success simply gets the credit by on-lookers who are never around to see when the tears role down your face when you think its too hard, but then you think of your brother...and you push through. 

 

Success is overrated. Failure is underrated. The greatest leader is the servant. 

[YankeeJet22]

TD/INT ratio determines if a QB is a good leader.

[jmat321]

On 5/21/2016 at 7:56 PM, Villain The Foe said:

#bullsh*t. 

Nice try with the "patting yourself on the back" because you own a business.

Everyone is a leader, everyone's idea of what a leader is...is whats different. 

Not BS, just my reply to the OP's original question based on my own experience with trying to identify leaders.  Although, I will not go into detail, I have hired several people with great "ability" that had questionable stories/incidents somewhere along the line.  Basically things that they have done in and outside their careers that I personally attributed to being young and inexperienced at time of those incidents.  I felt given their talent, they could be molded into leaders.  Let's just say moving forward with these individuals didn't work out for me.  On the other end, I've hired young people who have done what they needed to do, acted like they needed to act, no questionable incidents or dramatically bad decisions.  Those individuals have worked out.  If I'm seated in the GM's office, I would vote No on Geno based on my past experience.  Could I be wrong, absolutely.

[BUM-KNEE]

8 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Yes just some more than others.  

Agreed

[CrazyCarl40]

8. Geno on Hack: Geno Smith on his reaction to the team drafting Christian Hackenberg: "I don't have a reaction on any of the players that are drafted, so I wouldn't have one when another quarterback is drafted." OK then.

 

Leadership. Lol. 

[faba]

Well he has not done anything so far in his career that would make you think so- the odds are against it happening 

[BowlesMovement]

13 minutes ago, faba said:

Well he has not done anything so far in his career that would make you think so- the odds are against it happening 

Well, the logical jets fans would argue about how there was probably a guy at some point in time, somewhere, on some team that did it, so it's highly probable because that dude did it, Geno will too.  #logic

[Colgateman]

2 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

8. Geno on Hack: Geno Smith on his reaction to the team drafting Christian Hackenberg: "I don't have a reaction on any of the players that are drafted, so I wouldn't have one when another quarterback is drafted." OK then.

 

Leadership. Lol. 

Decker said he was surprised when the jets drafted Hackensack and said he wanted fitz back.

 

petty said he can't worry about them drafting Hackensack.

 

now all of a sudden, Geno says basically the same thing as Petty and you are trying to make a something out of it.

 

go pull your strawman argument in another thread, with your sh*t double standards

[CrazyCarl40]

1 hour ago, Colgateman said:

Decker said he was surprised when the jets drafted Hackensack and said he wanted fitz back.

 

petty said he can't worry about them drafting Hackensack.

 

now all of a sudden, Geno says basically the same thing as Petty and you are trying to make a something out of it.

 

go pull your strawman argument in another thread, with your sh*t double standards

The fact that he doesn't care about any of his new teammates is appalling. He's not a good teammate. Which is why he got dropped. The way he speaks is immature and crass. You should know that. It's the same way you post. 

[BowlesMovement]

1 hour ago, Colgateman said:

Decker said he was surprised when the jets drafted Hackensack and said he wanted fitz back.

 

petty said he can't worry about them drafting Hackensack.

 

now all of a sudden, Geno says basically the same thing as Petty and you are trying to make a something out of it.

 

go pull your strawman argument in another thread, with your sh*t double standards

I am sure every Pats fan out there would LOVE for Geno to start this year, so would every Bills fan and Fish fan too

[Matt39]

4 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

8. Geno on Hack: Geno Smith on his reaction to the team drafting Christian Hackenberg: "I don't have a reaction on any of the players that are drafted, so I wouldn't have one when another quarterback is drafted." OK then.

 

Leadership. Lol. 

lol jesus

[Ex-Rex]

On 5/21/2016 at 4:02 PM, Mainejet said:

The answer is NO. And truthfully, if every Jets fan is being honest with themselves then there wouldn't be any argument about Geno. Getting popped in the jaw because you chose to stiff a guy over a measly $600, illustrates his immaturity and total lack of respect and leadership skills. It is the very incident (above and beyond his truly BAD play) that PROVES he is not a leader. It also shows he never will be a leader. NEVER. This is why I want the Jets to rid themselves of all the dead wood. I want QB's belonging to this organization that can illustrate leadership qualities. Guys that other players can look up. Geno is the complete opposite of anything positive. He's a punk.

Could not agree more. He is a straight up punk. He proved his level of maturity has not improved in a recent interview in which a reporter got under his skin with questions  about Fitz. He doesn't know what he doesn't know and you can't improve anything until you do. Geno Smith has no future with the Jets.

[jack48]

On May 21, 2016 at 3:32 PM, BowlesMovement said:

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/8/11/9132525/geno-smith-jets-cris-carter-sucker-punch-leadership-nfl

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/09/teammates-grumbling-about-geno-smiths-leadership/

http://deadspin.com/geno-smith-got-his-face-caved-in-because-he-s-a-poor-le-1723623552

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/0ap2000000163975/Kurt-Warner-questions-Geno-Smith-s-leadership-ability

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/11/geno-smiths-former-teammates-coach-lament-lack-of-leadership-in-2012/

http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/jets/geno-smith-missed-team-meeting-ahead-of-jets-31-0-loss-1.9470873

Can Geno Smith LEAD the Jets? 

Is Geno a leader?  Hmmmm.  Do bears sh*t on the 24th floor of the Chrysler Building?

[jack48]

Just now, jack48 said:

Is Geno a leader?  Hmmmm.  Do bears sh*t on the 24th floor of the Chrysler Building

 

[AFJF]

9 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

8. Geno on Hack: Geno Smith on his reaction to the team drafting Christian Hackenberg: "I don't have a reaction on any of the players that are drafted, so I wouldn't have one when another quarterback is drafted." OK then.

 

Leadership. Lol. 

He's a regular Patton, this kid.

[flgreen]

10 hours ago, Colgateman said:

Decker said he was surprised when the jets drafted Hackensack and said he wanted fitz back.

 

petty said he can't worry about them drafting Hackensack.

 

now all of a sudden, Geno says basically the same thing as Petty and you are trying to make a something out of it.

 

go pull your strawman argument in another thread, with your sh*t double standards

Strange that a pats fan would also be a fan of smith's 

[Snell41]

Decker said he was surprised when the jets drafted Hackensack and said he wanted fitz back.

 

petty said he can't worry about them drafting Hackensack.

 

now all of a sudden, Geno says basically the same thing as Petty and you are trying to make a something out of it.

 

go pull your strawman argument in another thread, with your sh*t double standards

It's a valid argument although slightly off tilt. The answer from a leader is real simple. " is a great player and I look forward to working and competing with him and all my teammates"

On Fitzpatrick, instead of snotty and annoyed "next question" answers, a simple "Fitzpatrick was a great teammate and I'll leave his status to the guys upstairs. If he comes back I look forward to the competition with him"

It's not that hard. Playing QB in NY requires leadership with the team, FO, and the media. Geno doesn't seem to have any of that

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk