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Geno Smith: An Honest Look at the Past


JETSfaninNE
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6 hours ago, j4jets said:

Bleh. Fitz has no upside. His best season coincided with the weakest schedule for the team facing leagues worst Ds and we still didn't make the playoffs. So, bleh. 

Blah all you like, Geno starts last year and we're a 6-7 win team in my book.

I know some would have preferred that, the "lose them all till we get our Manning" folks, but I think the idea Geno does better than what Fitz did last year is pure fantasy.

And be assured, so does Macc and Bowles, otherwise they wouldn't be chasing Fitz now, lol.

Proof will be in the pudding.  If Fitz cannot be resigned, we'll see just how good Geno is with a very talented Fitz-carrying roster, or we won't. 

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On May 22, 2016 at 1:56 PM, JETSfaninNE said:

That was incredibly enlightening and very constructive, where can I subscribe to your future 2 word posts?  Seriously I know it easy to just slapass internet rep points with 0 effort, but it would help if you know tried to offer anything worthwhile to the thread that has plenty of evidence for either side of the argument.

EDIT: Fixed the title so not to attract more of the same comments.

El Sucko

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31 minutes ago, Colgateman said:

If Geno lights up OTAS (who knows if he will) do you think the Jets still let him go when they re-sign Fitzpatrick? I think not.

 

I am hoping that one of the trashbins start so we get a top 5 pick for a quarterback. 

I don't even think your a Jets fan, pretty sure your a Pats fan trolling the sh!t out of this board.

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8 minutes ago, BowlesMovement said:

I don't even think your a Jets fan, pretty sure your a Pats fan trolling the sh!t out of this board.

I am a huge Jets fan, I am just tired of Mediocre.

Never the worst, never the best. Always mediocre. 

You have to be the worst to get the best, that's how I see it

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11 hours ago, jett said:

I really do think you must be related to geno smith. I've never seen anyone so enamored with a player than you. 

I was correcting you. They werent highlights. They show his passes in games, both good and bad, but most of all it shows exactly what happened on each play. Its been presented so we can stop with the negative assumptions such as "He had such a bad Raiders game", but instead put up the actual footage so anyone can see for themselves. Im enamored by the truth of the matter, which is what the footage shows.

 

But of course some will refuse to look and instead make comments like "any one can take highlights of Tebow and make him look good", which makes me wonder what they're enamored by. 

That has nothing to do with being related to anyone, but more about some people simply ignoring the ACTUAL footage which would show everything happening on the play. And you can tell that its being ignored for the fact that the vids are being called  "highlights". Goes to show that they didnt even watch. Yet another reason why certain comments cant be taken seriously. 

You often here that Geno processes information slow, cant read defenses and is stupid. Well, I think its a good idea to put up the throws for all of his games (that can be found) so we can see exactly what happened on those throws instead of just hating by way of making ridiculous and often untrue statements/assessments. 

 

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26 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I was correcting you. They werent highlights. They show his passes in games, both good and bad, but most of all it shows exactly what happened on each play. Its been presented so we can stop with the negative assumptions such as "He had such a bad Raiders game", but instead put up the actual footage so anyone can see for themselves. 

 

But of course some will refuse to look and instead make comments like "any one can take highlights of Tebow and make him look good", then wonder why they cant be taken seriously. 

That has nothing to do with being related to anyone, but more about some simply ignoring the ACTUAL footage which would show everything happening on the play. And you can tell that its being ignored for the fact that the vids are being called  "highlights". Goes to show that they didnt even watch. Yet another reason why certain comments cant be taken seriously. 

You often here that Geno processes information slow, cant read defenses and is stupid. Well, I think its a good idea to put up the throws for all of his games (that can be found) so we can see exactly what happened on those throws instead of just hating by way of making ridiculous and often untrue statements/assessments. 

Im enamored by the truth of the matter, which is what the footage shows.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

that was funny, thanks!!

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59 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I was correcting you. They werent highlights. They show his passes in games, both good and bad, but most of all it shows exactly what happened on each play. Its been presented so we can stop with the negative assumptions such as "He had such a bad Raiders game", but instead put up the actual footage so anyone can see for themselves. Im enamored by the truth of the matter, which is what the footage shows.

 

But of course some will refuse to look and instead make comments like "any one can take highlights of Tebow and make him look good", which makes me wonder what they're enamored by. 

That has nothing to do with being related to anyone, but more about some people simply ignoring the ACTUAL footage which would show everything happening on the play. And you can tell that its being ignored for the fact that the vids are being called  "highlights". Goes to show that they didnt even watch. Yet another reason why certain comments cant be taken seriously. 

You often here that Geno processes information slow, cant read defenses and is stupid. Well, I think its a good idea to put up the throws for all of his games (that can be found) so we can see exactly what happened on those throws instead of just hating by way of making ridiculous and often untrue statements/assessments. 

 

If your not related to Geno please tell us why you are pounding the table so hard for Geno?  

I want Fitz for the same reason as I want Petty to play well and the same reason I wanted to draft Hack, because it rids us of Geno.  You have never said why you keep pushing Geno.  Is it because you really believe he is a good QB or is it something else?

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8 hours ago, j4jets said:

The fascination with Geno is that Fitz sucks n we have no other option at QB. Besides, when was the last time Geno had two decent WRs? Last 6 games of 2014 and one game against the Raiders in 2015. Feel free to judge him on level grounds. Don't judge his rookie season with Holmes, Hills n Nelson as his starters. Year two he had Decker as #1 n Percy as #2 after the benching. He responded well. It's now year 4 and we are banking on further improvements. 

Thanks for proving my point. 

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Blah all you like, Geno starts last year and we're a 6-7 win team in my book.

I know some would have preferred that, the "lose them all till we get our Manning" folks, but I think the idea Geno does better than what Fitz did last year is pure fantasy.

And be assured, so does Macc and Bowles, otherwise they wouldn't be chasing Fitz now, lol.

Proof will be in the pudding.  If Fitz cannot be resigned, we'll see just how good Geno is with a very talented Fitz-carrying roster, or we won't. 

Lol, I thought that was something this entire board has established that Fitz is not. Very talented QBs don't switch teams like Kim Kardashian. At the end of the day, you know he's going to sh*t the bed, almost literally. So carry on with that belief Mac n Bowles haven't "chased" Fitz yet. He's that ugly hooker that no one wants, but will use him when they're desperate. 

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3 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Lol, I thought that was something this entire board has established that Fitz is not. Very talented QBs don't switch teams like Kim Kardashian. At the end of the day, you know he's going to sh*t the bed, almost literally. So carry on with that belief Mac n Bowles haven't "chased" Fitz yet. He's that ugly hooker that no one wants, but will use him when they're desperate. 

Perhaps I needed to add a comma.  So let me clarify what I was trying to communicate there:

A very talented roster, that carried Fitz.

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A yr ago every 1 was laughing about fitz. He has been shhit his whole career. Chan gailey has shown numerous times he can do well with a bellow ave qb. Fitz, Stewart.. ( who is like geno ) plus maybe the best 1-2 recieving corps in nfl. Fitz looked much worse than his stats.. Gailey knows with him and those 2 geno can easily match fitz last yr. he has more arm and leg.. Anyone who thinks fitz would have been any better than same bellow aveesge fitz if he was our starter  2-3 years ago doesn't know football well..

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2 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

A yr ago every 1 was laughing about fitz. He has been shhit his whole career. Chan gailey has shown numerous times he can do well with a bellow ave qb. Fitz, Stewart.. ( who is like geno ) plus maybe the best 1-2 recieving corps in nfl. Fitz looked much worse than his stats.. Gailey knows with him and those 2 geno can easily match fitz last yr. he has more arm and leg.. Anyone who thinks fitz would have been any better than same bellow aveesge fitz if he was our starter  2-3 years ago doesn't know football well..

Let's hope you're right.  But if they sign Fitz at 7mil or more, it would seem that's not the case.

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Perhaps I needed to add a comma.  So let me clarify what I was trying to communicate there:

A very talented roster, that carried Fitz.

In that case I agree with you. My bad. However, that was only half of my argument we agree upon. 

Very talented roster facing the leagues easiest schedule while also throwing against possibly the leagues easiest passing defense schedule. The stars aligned perfectly for Fitz n he still failed. His best season of his long career wasn't enough even when all the stars aligned for him. 

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2 hours ago, j4jets said:

Lol, I thought that was something this entire board has established that Fitz is not. Very talented QBs don't switch teams like Kim Kardashian. At the end of the day, you know he's going to sh*t the bed, almost literally. So carry on with that belief Mac n Bowles haven't "chased" Fitz yet. He's that ugly hooker that no one wants, but will use him when they're desperate. 

How true....  Id rather be a 4 to 6 win team, get a good draft pick and build then a team that goes 10 wins, no playoffs, picks in the middle and sees no real opportunity to improve.

I say let Fitz walk and lets see what we have in Hack and or Geno when they are given some weapons.

 

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4 hours ago, Joe Jets fan said:

If your not related to Geno please tell us why you are pounding the table so hard for Geno?  

I want Fitz for the same reason as I want Petty to play well and the same reason I wanted to draft Hack, because it rids us of Geno.  You have never said why you keep pushing Geno.  Is it because you really believe he is a good QB or is it something else?

The opposite reason for why you bang the same table to get rid of Geno. Does that mean that you're related to both Fitz and Petty? 

I've also stated numerous times why I would keep Geno AND start him. You're just not interested in reading anything pro-Geno so you tend to skip over those type of statements....but its not because I've never presented my reason. 

 

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14 hours ago, j4jets said:

The fascination with Geno is that Fitz sucks n we have no other option at QB. Besides, when was the last time Geno had two decent WRs? Last 6 games of 2014 and one game against the Raiders in 2015. Feel free to judge him on level grounds. Don't judge his rookie season with Holmes, Hills n Nelson as his starters. Year two he had Decker as #1 n Percy as #2 after the benching. He responded well. It's now year 4 and we are banking on further improvements. 

Lets take a look at Geno's last 6 games of 2014 along with his Raiders game. However, before we start, since you made a distinct difference between Geno's first 8 games in 2014 (Not a decent group of WR's) and his last 6 games (decent WR duo). Lets first put up some stats of those first 8 games so we can see if there was any difference in respects to talent around Geno. That would be a fair assessment right? Cool, so....

First 8 games (Poor targets) 

227 att, 131 comp, 57.7% comp rate. 7TD's 10INT's 1/1.7 TD-INT ratio. 

Last 6 games. (With decent WR duo)

134 att, 88 comp, 65.67% comp rate 6TD's 3INT's  2/1 TD-INT ratio. 

 

So, his completion %'age went up almost 9% and he completely did a 180 on his TD-INT ratio. And keep in mind, this is with Decker/Harvin. Decker who is not a #1 WR and Harvin who is more of a gadget, KR/PR player than he is an actual top #2 WR, hence the reason for the "decent WR" comparison. Basically, going from a poor cast of WR's to a decent WR duo made Geno a completely different QB....literally. 

 

Now, for the Raiders game. 

42 att, 27 comp, 64.3% comp rate, 265 yards, 2TD-1INT, 2/1 TD-INT ratio. 

If Geno Smith were to have these exact numbers for 16 games he would break the all-time Jets TD record (32), all time yardage record (4,240), with only 16 INT's along with a completion percentage that would rival Chad Pennington. Believe it or not, but in all honesty, thats borderline Probowl numbers. 

Geno Smith, projecting that he did exactly the same thing statistically he did in the Raiders game, would be the greatest single season QB in Jets history. Not that this is some extraordinary feat, given the Jets history of QB's, but it is what it is and it would definitely be a respectable season.

As you can see below, rex-n-effect stated "thanks for proving my point". Well, this is the point you proved. Now only was Geno Noticeably better those last 6 games with "decent WR's", but based on the stats from the Raiders game, if Geno continued on that exact path he'd be the best single season QB in Jets history. And please lets keep this in perspective here. In that Raiders game Geno came in cold, with no chemistry with the #1's, missed all of the preseason and the first 3 weeks of the season and just got back into football shape and actually lost weight given that he couldnt get the proper nutrition because he couldnt eat. His mouth was wired shut. 

These are not excuses, just the facts...I just want to be clear about that. 

 

 

5 hours ago, rex-n-effect said:

Thanks for proving my point. 

 

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21 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Lets take a look at Geno's last 6 games of 2014 along with his Raiders game. However, before we start, since you made a distinct difference between Geno's first 8 games in 2014 (Not a decent group of WR's) and his last 6 games (decent WR duo). Lets first put up some stats of those first 8 games so we can see if there was any difference in respects to talent around Geno. That would be a fair assessment right? Cool, so....

First 8 games (Poor targets) 

227 att, 131 comp, 57.7% comp rate. 7TD's 10INT's 1/1.7 TD-INT ratio. 

Last 6 games. (With decent WR duo)

134 att, 88 comp, 65.67% comp rate 6TD's 3INT's  2/1 TD-INT ratio. 

 

So, his completion %'age went up almost 9% and he completely did a 180 on his TD-INT ratio. And keep in mind, this is with Decker/Harvin. Decker who is not a #1 WR and Harvin who is more of a gadget, KR/PR player than he is an actual top #2 WR, hence the reason for the "decent WR" comparison. Basically, going from a poor cast of WR's to a decent WR duo made Geno a completely different QB....literally. 

 

Now, for the Raiders game. 

42 att, 27 comp, 64.3% comp rate, 265 yards, 2TD-1INT, 2/1 TD-INT ratio. 

If Geno Smith were to have these exact numbers for 16 games he would break the all-time Jets TD record (32) and all time yardage record (4,240) and with only 16 INT's. Believe it or not, but in all honesty, thats borderline Probowl numbers. 

Geno Smith, projecting that he did exactly the same thing statistically he did in the Raiders game, would be the greatest single season QB in Jets history. Not that this is some extraordinary feat, given the Jets history of QB's, but it is what it is and it would definitely be a respectable season.

As you can see below, rex-n-effect stated "thanks for proving my point". Well, this is the point you proved. Now only was Geno Noticeably better those last 6 games with "decent WR's", but based on the stats from the Raiders game, if Geno continued on that exact path he'd be the best single season QB in Jets history. And please lets keep this in perspective here. In that Raiders game Geno came in cold, with no chemistry with the #1's, missed all of the preseason and the first 3 weeks of the season and just got back into football shape and actually lost weight given that he couldnt get the proper nutrition because he couldnt eat. His mouth was wired shut. 

These are not excuses, just the facts...I just want to be clear about that. 

 

 

 

You've clearly laid out why people want to see Geno play, but before the haters chime in I'd like to beat them to the punch.

Look, Geno sucks.  He had the starting job handed to him for years.  You can't use stats like that to prove your point.  But have you seen Fitz's stats?.. psh... amazing!  What makes you think Geno could be good?  Note that I see your previous argument for Geno, but I don't like that.  Come up with something else that does not involve stats or shows his improvement.  

Also please don't mention any observations of how he does in practice because that's meaningless.  He's always been great in practice.  (By always I mean since last year.)

Besides, even if Geno is better than Fitz, we should still pay Fitz big money to make up for being underpaid for his killer stats last season.

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2 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

You've clearly laid out why people want to see Geno play, but before the haters chime in I'd like to beat them to the punch.

Look, Geno sucks.  He had the starting job handed to him for years.  You can't use stats like that to prove your point.  But have you seen Fitz's stats?.. psh... amazing!  What makes you think Geno could be good.  Note that I see your previous argument for Geno, but I don't like that.  Come up with something else that does not involve stats or shows his improvement.  

Also please don't mention any observations of how he does in practice because that's meaningless.  He's always been great in practice.  (By always I mean since last year.)

Besides, even if Geno is better than Fitz, we should still pay Fitz big money to make up for being underpaid for his killer stats last season.

You forgot that IK broke his jaw, which makes Geno a bad guy and IK a hero instead of a f'ing lunatic. lol. 

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34 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Lets take a look at Geno's last 6 games of 2014 along with his Raiders game. However, before we start, since you made a distinct difference between Geno's first 8 games in 2014 (Not a decent group of WR's) and his last 6 games (decent WR duo). Lets first put up some stats of those first 8 games so we can see if there was any difference in respects to talent around Geno. That would be a fair assessment right? Cool, so....

First 8 games (Poor targets) 

227 att, 131 comp, 57.7% comp rate. 7TD's 10INT's 1/1.7 TD-INT ratio. 

Last 6 games. (With decent WR duo)

134 att, 88 comp, 65.67% comp rate 6TD's 3INT's  2/1 TD-INT ratio. 

 

So, his completion %'age went up almost 9% and he completely did a 180 on his TD-INT ratio. And keep in mind, this is with Decker/Harvin. Decker who is not a #1 WR and Harvin who is more of a gadget, KR/PR player than he is an actual top #2 WR, hence the reason for the "decent WR" comparison. Basically, going from a poor cast of WR's to a decent WR duo made Geno a completely different QB....literally. 

 

Now, for the Raiders game. 

42 att, 27 comp, 64.3% comp rate, 265 yards, 2TD-1INT, 2/1 TD-INT ratio. 

If Geno Smith were to have these exact numbers for 16 games he would break the all-time Jets TD record (32), all time yardage record (4,240), with only 16 INT's along with a completion percentage that would rival Chad Pennington. Believe it or not, but in all honesty, thats borderline Probowl numbers. 

Geno Smith, projecting that he did exactly the same thing statistically he did in the Raiders game, would be the greatest single season QB in Jets history. Not that this is some extraordinary feat, given the Jets history of QB's, but it is what it is and it would definitely be a respectable season.

As you can see below, rex-n-effect stated "thanks for proving my point". Well, this is the point you proved. Now only was Geno Noticeably better those last 6 games with "decent WR's", but based on the stats from the Raiders game, if Geno continued on that exact path he'd be the best single season QB in Jets history. And please lets keep this in perspective here. In that Raiders game Geno came in cold, with no chemistry with the #1's, missed all of the preseason and the first 3 weeks of the season and just got back into football shape and actually lost weight given that he couldnt get the proper nutrition because he couldnt eat. His mouth was wired shut. 

These are not excuses, just the facts...I just want to be clear about that. 

 

 

 

But did he throw 31 touchdowns? Does Marshall like him? your point is ilrelivant!

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6 hours ago, rex-n-effect said:

Thanks for proving my point. 

Lol I think I proved why we need to give Geno a chance. It's not like there are Russel wilsons and Andrew Lucks roaming the FA. 

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1 hour ago, j4jets said:

Lol I think I proved why we need to give Geno a chance. It's not like there are Russel wilsons and Andrew Lucks roaming the FA. 

I laughed when I seen his comment. Im like "Dude, he's NOT making Geno look bad with the truth. If you look at the situation for what it is (last 6 games with decent WR's and 1 Raiders game coming in cold) Geno is basically a 65% completion-type QB that will get you 2 TD's per game, 1 int, 265 yards passing and about 35 yards scrambling per game on average. And this is really only taking into account him having Decker/Harvin as WR's and one Raiders game where he wasnt in the best position (not preparing on a weekly basis as the starter).

 

Matter of fact. I stated that if Geno had the exact same statistical game that he had in that Raiders game for the season (4,240 yards, 32TD's 16ints, 64% comp rate, 544 yards rushing) he'd be a borderline Probowler. I'd like to say that its not even borderline. Geno Smith would have been a probowler. 

Derek Carr was a 2015 AFC Probowler. These are his stats....

Derek Carr

3,987 yards, 32TD's 13INT's 61% comp rate and 138 yards rushing. 

 

Geno Smith (Raiders game stats projected over 16 weeks)

4,240 yards, 32TD's 16ints, 64% comp rate, 544 yards rushing

 

Yes, Geno Smith ran out of bounds with the football, and he took a nasty hit after GAINING 29 yards on a scramble after the pocket broke down. At the end of the day, those exact stats over a 16 game season would have Geno Smith accounting for close to 5,000 yards of total offense (4,784 Passing/Rushing yards combined). 

And Jets fans say that he played a "terrible" game. No, the defense who gave up 34 points and couldnt stop the Raiders played a terrible game. Geno had a good game with 2 bad decisions during the course of his good game. 

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5 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I laughed when I seen his comment. Im like "Dude, he's NOT making Geno look bad with the truth. If you look at the situation for what it is (last 6 games with decent WR's and 1 Raiders game coming in cold) Geno is basically a 65% completion-type QB that will get you 2 TD's per game, 1 int, 265 yards passing and about 35 yards scrambling per game.

 

Matter of fact. I stated that if Geno had the exact same statistical game that he had in that Raiders game for the season (4,240 yards, 32TD's 16ints, 64% comp rate, 544 yards rushing) he'd be a borderline Probowler. I'd like to say that its not even borderline. Geno Smith would have been a probowler. 

Derek Carr was an 2015 AFC Probowler. These are his stats. 

 

3,987 yards, 32TD's 13INT's 61% comp rate and 138 yards rushing. 

 

Yes, Geno Smith ran out of bounds with the football, and he took a nasty hit after GAINING 29 yards on a scramble after the pocket broke down. At the end of the day, those exact stats over a 16 game season would have Geno Smith accounting for close to 5,000 yards of total offense (4,784 Passing/Rushing yards combined). 

And Jets fans say that he played a "terrible" game. No, the defense who gave up 34 points and couldnt stop the Raiders played a terrible game. Geno had a good game with 2 bad decisions during the course of his good game. 

To be fair, stats from one game shouldnt be used as a basis to calculate yearly stats. Sample size is extremely small. However, I do believe we can take the 7 games and base some sort of opinion on it. 

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I will admit that Geno was definitely thrown into the fire when he wasn't ready during his rookie season (due to Sanchez injury) plus we had terrible skill players back then (we're much improved now).  IIRC, in his 2nd year, when it would be reasonable to expect some improvement (though our skill weapons still stunk), he got worse.  Now he's been around a few years so it's conceivably possible the game has slowed down for him.  Other than Fitz, I don't see a better option to start the year.  I'm still thinking Hack is the QB of the future though and I hope he gets in there around week 8.  It will make next season a heck of a lot more interesting if Hack shows promise.

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39 minutes ago, j4jets said:

To be fair, stats from one game shouldnt be used as a basis to calculate yearly stats. Sample size is extremely small. However, I do believe we can take the 7 games and base some sort of opinion on it. 

I absolutely agree. Stats arent in a vacuum like that. The point that im trying to drive home is that the anti-Geno folk are trying to exacerbate Geno's performance based around their dislike, not actual reality.

Also, anytime you have people who dont like a QB you hear the usual. "He's stupid, he cant read defenses, he cant process it quick enough or he's not good for this offense". They never show you examples of this. And when I say examples, im not talking a Gif here in a game or a Gif there. This is the age of the internet, you can show every throw in every game. They never do that. However, the moment you show that he can read a defense, he's not stupid and he can work an offense thats when those people suddenly change their tune from "He cant do this, he's stupid" to "it doesnt matter". 

 

There was a link that literally showed every throw Geno made in the Raiders game...showing him reading the defense, making right decision, not leaving the pocket for no reason making smart throws or throws under direct pressure etc. All you get in return???? "It doesnt matter, Geno sucks". In this very thread im posting all of his throws from his rookie season, and whats the first thing you hear? "It doesnt matter, I can make Tim Tebow look good etc". Buffoonery is what I call it. 

 

Nevermind that these facts completely dismantle the "Geno had a terrible Raiders game" mantra, but now when you actually show "the throws in the game" thats when it suddenly doesnt matter. 

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1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Analytics made me do it.

LOL...Maybe Mac should deal for Ryan Nassib?  His numbers extrapolate to 100% completion rate with 16 TD's and 0 INT's.  He'll also be the first QB to post a 158.3 QBR over 16 games.  

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11 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Analytics made me do it.

 

6 minutes ago, AFJF said:

LOL...Maybe Mac should deal for Ryan Nassib?  His numbers extrapolate to 100% completion rate with 16 TD's and 0 INT's.  He'll also be the first QB to post a 158.3 QBR over 16 games.  

Speaking of Analytics lol

 

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