Hackenburg looking unimpressive...

[Rexorcism]

The fan base is searching for a glimmer of hope from this QB situation and maybe a shot at a playoff run. It deserves it after years of ineptitude, but it doesn't seem like they're any closer to actual progress. I've seen 3 Red Sox titles and I'm about to see a 4th for the Penguins. All I want is one Jets one. That too much to ask?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Paradis]

6 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Theory: Slowly increasing anxiety that Maccagnan has no cards up his sleeve and we're headed for yet another cycle of early (relative) success followed by four to five years of clown college. Not resolving the Wilkerson issue, investing in a collegiate QB that nobody thinks is any good, and finding himself hung up in a public negotiation with Ryan Fitzpatrick are all eyebrow-raising concerns. The fan base is always reactionary, but will be even more so with this regime because it looks like they're making the same mistakes that the Herm, Mangini, and Rex regimes did.

The notion that Mac & co. might have no fcking clue what they're doing became a legit suspicion this offseason... NOT saying I'm there yet, but there's chin stroking happening... 

-- The Leo Williams pick over Todd Gurley... Didn't think it made sense then. Even less now. Playoffs last year had he been the pick.

-- Spend like Wolf on wallstreet last year. Could have been more prudent. Could have extented Mo Wilk last year.. I'd rather have Wilk and Gurley

-- This Fitz situation is lame. Pick a number and tell him to take it or GFY.... don't keep saying "We really want him" and then not resolve the situation.

-- Hackenberg? 

 

Todd Bowles as our coach is basically the reason i'm keeping the faith ATM.... cause I have more questions than answers about personnel stuff.

[Hitman Harris]

8 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Well, sure. But Belichick required cheating to save his ass, so anything is possible.

fixed

[Villain The Foe]

9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I didn't meant that Macc needed to sign either Fitzpatrick or Wilkerson, but it would have behooved him and the franchise to resolve at least one of them sooner. If he's not going to sign Wilkerson, he should have traded Wilkerson. If he's only going to offer Fitz $8 mil--or if he wants to move on from Fitz, he should have been more definitive about it back in April. Instead, he and his coach have repeatedly guaranteed Fitzpatrick the starting job "when" he re-signs. With Wilkerson, he's going to let him play out his deal and try to recoup a comp pick, which they'll likely burn by signing Drew Brees next offseason. I like Maccagnan, but the concerns that the job is too big for him are kinda playing out here. Where Idzik was too much of an accountant who was playing the long game, Maccagnan seems to be too much of a scout who might be painting the franchise into a corner. Looking two years down the line here, the offense is going to be Hackenberg to Devin Smith and...Charone Peake(?)

Im not saying you personally, I was referring to the fanbase in general. Though I do agree that Wilk should have been traded, I do respect the fact that Macc just didnt accept anything for Wilk but instead tagged him for another season. I would like to think that I wasnt the only one that saw that situation coming. This is why I said that we should have traded Wilk back when Idzik was the GM. No way in the world were we going to trade Wilk for a respectable pick/player and have that team give him JJ Watt money. But I also couldnt see a GM taking over a franchise and the first thing he does is trade away the best player. Last year was the ideal year to trade Wilk, but keeping him today on a tag isnt some sort of bad decision. Macc tried and as I expected couldnt move him...so he remains a Jet. We'll be getting a comp pick. 

As for Fitz, Macc was pretty definitive back in March leading up to today,  however the public just didnt know about it because he kept the negotiations behind closed doors. Fitzpatrick believes he's worth top 5-top 10 starter money. From my understanding Macc hasnt moved off of his number since March, going as far as letting Fitz find a better from the beginning of free agency up to today. How much more definitive must Macc get here? 

I do agree about guaranteeing him the starting role publicly like that, but I think it was a negotiation chip that he was using. Say it publicly and you cant really go back on it. However, in terms of negotiations Macc has a limit in which he will go and he's stuck to it. Its Fitz and his FA duty to squeeze as much out of a negotiation as they can, but that doesnt mean that Macc must/will move off of his number. Macc is simply keeping the negotiating table open while at the same time leaking the contract numbers in order to kill all the negativity the FO was getting for allegedly lowballing Fitz. Personally 12 million should be considered high balling and I hope Fitz doesnt accept it and doesnt sign. 

When Josh McCown had his good season with the Bears, Chicago didnt turn around and pay him 12 million...they let his ass walk because they knew long term what the guy was. He went to Tampa and had a season that was below Glennon....but only kept the job because of the coach that deserved to be fired. 

I dont know where you got the Drew Brees part from. I heard that NO just extended Brees, but even if they didnt you're blaming Macc for stuff that didnt even happen (possibly burning the comp pick to sign Brees???)

As for Idzik, his situation was unfortunate...and honestly he shouldnt have even taken the job. He wasnt able to do anything that he actually wanted to do. He couldnt hire a new HC and build that franchise in his image. He was a placeholder GM. Thats on Woody. Macc being "too much of a scout" is a problem now? This guy has built one of the most talented Jets teams I've ever seen. How the hell is that a problem? That becomes a problem because Wilk is still a Jet and Fitz negotiations are still open? C'mon Tom, the dude just came off of being a rookie GM and won GM of the year brother. Lets wait before loosely comparing the man to John Idzik. lol.

The fact that we can even look two years down the road shows that the guy is doing his job. How many years have we've been looking to have some rookie/newcomer immediately fill in a hole. Having guys like Devin Smith, Peake and "The Berg" all on the team now working out together, learning the playbook together, developing chemistry together plays a big role that only a "scout mind" could really understand. No need to kill Macc over providing us with youth and potential starters to the team. 

[T0mShane]

10 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

 

[T0mShane]

18 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Im not saying you personally, I was referring to the fanbase in general. Though I do agree that Wilk should have been traded, I do respect the fact that Macc just didnt accept anything for Wilk but instead tagged him for another season. I would like to think that I wasnt the only one that saw that situation coming. This is why I said that we should have traded Wilk back when Idzik was the GM. No way in the world were we going to trade Wilk for a respectable pick/player and have that team give him JJ Watt money. But I also couldnt see a GM taking over a franchise and the first thing he does is trade away the best player. Last year was the ideal year to trade Wilk, but keeping him today on a tag isnt some sort of bad decision. Macc tried and as I expected couldnt move him...so he remains a Jet. We'll be getting a comp pick. 

As for Fitz, Macc was pretty definitive back in March leading up to today,  however the public just didnt know about it because he kept the negotiations behind closed doors. Fitzpatrick believes he's worth top 5-top 10 starter money. From my understanding Macc hasnt moved off of his number since March, going as far as letting Fitz find a better from the beginning of free agency up to today. How much more definitive must Macc get here? 

I do agree about guaranteeing him the starting role publicly like that, but I think it was a negotiation chip that he was using. Say it publicly and you cant really go back on it. However, in terms of negotiations Macc has a limit in which he will go and he's stuck to it. Its Fitz and his FA duty to squeeze as much out of a negotiation as they can, but that doesnt mean that Macc must/will move off of his number. Macc is simply keeping the negotiating table open while at the same time leaking the contract numbers in order to kill all the negativity the FO was getting for allegedly lowballing Fitz. Personally 12 million should be considered high balling and I hope Fitz doesnt accept it and doesnt sign. 

When Josh McCown had his good season with the Bears, Chicago didnt turn around and pay him 12 million...they let his ass walk because they knew long term what the guy was. He went to Tampa and had a season that was below Glennon....but only kept the job because of the coach that deserved to be fired. 

I dont know where you got the Drew Brees part from. I heard that NO just extended Brees, but even if they didnt you're blaming Macc for stuff that didnt even happen (possibly burning the comp pick to sign Brees???)

As for Idzik, his situation was unfortunate...and honestly he shouldnt have even taken the job. He wasnt able to do anything that he actually wanted to do. He couldnt hire a new HC and build that franchise in his image. He was a placeholder GM. Thats on Woody. Macc being "too much of a scout" is a problem now? This guy has built one of the most talented Jets teams I've ever seen. How the hell is that a problem? That becomes a problem because Wilk is still a Jet and Fitz negotiations are still open? C'mon Tom, the dude just came off of being a rookie GM and won GM of the year brother. Lets wait before loosely comparing the man to John Idzik. lol.

The fact that we can even look two years down the road shows that the guy is doing his job. How many years have we've been looking to have some rookie/newcomer immediately fill in a hole. Having guys like Devin Smith, Peake and "The Berg" all on the team now working out together, learning the playbook together, developing chemistry together plays a big role that only a "scout mind" could really understand. No need to kill Macc over providing us with youth and potential starters to the team. 

Looking two years down the road at a QB prospect whose major knock is accuracy and who can't complete basic passes in shorts throwing to a pair of frail deep threat receivers with spaghetti-like ACL's isn't a particularly enticing roadmap for future success.

 

and how is guaranteeing Fitzpatrick a starting job a good negotiating ploy? 

[T0mShane]

5 hours ago, Paradis said:

The notion that Mac & co. might have no fcking clue what they're doing became a legit suspicion this offseason... NOT saying I'm there yet, but there's chin stroking happening... 

-- The Leo Williams pick over Todd Gurley... Didn't think it made sense then. Even less now. Playoffs last year had he been the pick.

-- Spend like Wolf on wallstreet last year. Could have been more prudent. Could have extented Mo Wilk last year.. I'd rather have Wilk and Gurley

-- This Fitz situation is lame. Pick a number and tell him to take it or GFY.... don't keep saying "We really want him" and then not resolve the situation.

-- Hackenberg? 

 

Todd Bowles as our coach is basically the reason i'm keeping the faith ATM.... cause I have more questions than answers about personnel stuff.

What bothers me with Bowles is the fact that he's a defensive backs guru who needed to sign Darrelle Revis, Buster Skrine, Antonio Cromartie, and Marcus Gilchrist last year--all to big-dollar contracts--in order to field what was only a decent secondary. It was the same way that Rex--an alleged defensive line savant--needed tons of resources on the defensive line. And the fact that he kept running Cromartie out there every week even though it was clear that he was finished was reminiscent of Herm and Aaron Beasley. Marcus Williams was a better, younger player and was stapled to the bench because of Bowles' misplaced loyalties. This year, Bowles (like Rex) is going to have expensive FA's and high draft picks at every level of his defense, so he'love have zero excuse for letting guys like Tyrod Taylor and TJ Yates go up and down the field on him. 

 

Im of the belief that a lot of the defensive breakdowns last year were the result of having no speed at LB, so his blitz packages were useless at times. I'm hopeful for Bowles and there's a lot to like, but he's got a lot to work on. 

[Villain The Foe]

13 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Looking two years down the road at a QB prospect whose major knock is accuracy and who can't complete basic passes in shorts throwing to a pair of frail deep threat receivers with spaghetti-like ACL's isn't a particularly enticing roadmap for future success.

 

and how is guaranteeing Fitzpatrick a starting job a good negotiating ploy? 

Funny how you said "receivers" when mentioningspaghetti-like ACL's. If im correct (maybe im not) Devin Smith didnt tear his ACL in college or anytime before that. He tore his ACL in the pro's after he was drafted. How the hell was Macc supposed to have hindsight for that? Charone Peake tore his ACL back in 2013 but was a 7th round pick by Macc. Why is that a problem? 

I dont agree with Hackenberg in the 2nd round, I would have preferred trading a 3rd rounder to Tampa for Glennon or having some sort of package deal sending Wilk to Tampa last year for picks and Glennon. However, Hack wont be seeing the field this season and Macc (the scout) thinks that his issues can be managed and fixed. 

I also dont think guaranteeing Fitz a starting job was a good idea, I think that stating that Fitz would be the starter and the price set was a good idea in relation to the negotiation price. Its hard for me to answer that because I wouldnt want Fitz on the team as anything more than a back up. What I will say is that Fitz isnt a Jet (currently) because Macc is not moving off of his number. He's sitting at what he believes is fair value, and the rest of the league has shown, based on not signing Fitz themselves, that the Jets offer is MORE than fair value. 

 

At the end of the day. Geno Smith is the starting QB so Hack gets to sit. Devin Smith tore his ACL as a pro and no one could have predicted that and Charone Peake is a 7th round pick that was evaluated as a 3rd round pick (given his knee issues) but as a football player possesses 1st round-like talent. You're nitpicking. 

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

Funny how you said "receivers" when mentioningspaghetti-like ACL's. If im correct (maybe im not) Devin Smith didnt tear his ACL in college or anytime before that. He tore his ACL in the pro's after he was drafted. How the hell was Macc supposed to have hindsight for that? Charone Peake tore his ACL back in 2013 but was a 7th round pick by Macc. Why is that a problem? 

I dont agree with Hackenberg in the 2nd round, I would have preferred trading a 3rd rounder to Tampa for Glennon or having some sort of package deal sending Wilk to Tampa last year for picks and Glennon. However, Hack wont be seeing the field this season and Macc (the scout) thinks that his issues can be managed and fixed. 

I also dont think guaranteeing Fitz a starting job was a good idea, I think that stating that Fitz would be the starter and the price set was a good idea in relation to the negotiation price. Its hard for me to answer that because I wouldnt want Fitz on the team as anything more than a back up. What I will say is that Fitz isnt a Jet (currently) because Macc is not moving off of his number. He's sitting at what he believes is fair value, and the rest of the league has shown, based on not signing Fitz themselves, that the Jets offer is MORE than fair value. 

 

At the end of the day. Geno Smith is the starting QB so Hack gets to sit. Devin Smith tore his ACL as a pro and no one could have predicted that and Charone Peake is a 7th round pick that was evaluated as a 3rd round pick (given his knee issues) but had 1st round-like talent. You're nitpicking. 

Of course Macc couldn't have predicted Devin Smith blowing his knee out, but he hasn't reacted to it at all, either. The question holds--who are the young players in place to succeed the older vets on offense? The starting RB is a 30 year-old vet who's breaking down. The starting QB is likely to be 33 year-old Ryan Fitzpatrick on a short-term deal. The #1 receiver is 32 and openly talks about early retirement. 

 

As for having faith in Macc scouting Hackenberg, remember that Macc comes from the Texans, where they've rivaled the Jets for horrific mismanagement of the QB position over the past decade-plus.

[Villain The Foe]

44 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Of course Macc couldn't have predicted Devin Smith blowing his knee out, but he hasn't reacted to it at all, either. The question holds--who are the young players in place to succeed the older vets on offense? The starting RB is a 30 year-old vet who's breaking down. The starting QB is likely to be 33 year-old Ryan Fitzpatrick on a short-term deal. The #1 receiver is 32 and openly talks about early retirement. 

 

As for having faith in Macc scouting Hackenberg, remember that Macc comes from the Texans, where they've rivaled the Jets for horrific mismanagement of the QB position over the past decade-plus.

How was Macc supposed to react, by drafting a WR in the 1st round? The starting RB is a 30 year old vet, but what gives you the indication that he's breaking down? the guy has missed just 7 games in his 8 year career and is the most productive RB in the league from the LOS. Add to the fact that we resigned Powell and signed Robinson. 

The starting QB is likely to be a 25 year old Geno Smith in a contract year. Our #1 wR is a 32 year old that has openly talked about retirement but is playing like a top 3 WR in the league and has been the most productive WR probably in Jets history....as a 32 year old WR who's openly talked about retirement. You're nitpicking sir. 

I havent forgotten where Macc comes from. What im saying is that I havent had a problem with his approach. Sure I personally would have done some things differently, but doing some things differently is not the same as having a problem with his approach. 

 

If you can name me a more talented team the past 20 years than the squad we have now then I'll listen, but it'll be pretty hard to do. 

[FTL Jet Fan]

38 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Of course Macc couldn't have predicted Devin Smith blowing his knee out, but he hasn't reacted to it at all, either. The question holds--who are the young players in place to succeed the older vets on offense? The starting RB is a 30 year-old vet who's breaking down. The starting QB is likely to be 33 year-old Ryan Fitzpatrick on a short-term deal. The #1 receiver is 32 and openly talks about early retirement. 

 

As for having faith in Macc scouting Hackenberg, remember that Macc comes from the Texans, where they've rivaled the Jets for horrific mismanagement of the QB position over the past decade-plus.

 ^^^ Hard to argue with that. Especially the aging WR's and running backs. I like our late round WR picks but not the injury concern that comes with them as the injury bug seems to love the taste of our players blood.

[T0mShane]

8 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

How was Macc supposed to react, by drafting a WR in the 1st round? The starting RB is a 30 year old vet, but what gives you the indication that he's breaking down? the guy has missed just 7 games in his 8 year career and is the most productive RB in the league from the LOS. Add to the fact that we resigned Powell and signed Robinson. 

The starting QB is likely to be a 25 year old Geno Smith in a contract year. Our #1 wR is a 32 year old that has openly talked about retirement but is playing like a top 3 WR in the league and has been the most productive WR probably in Jets history....as a 32 year old WR who's openly talked about retirement. You're nitpicking sir. 

I havent forgotten where Macc comes from. What im saying is that I havent had a problem with his approach. Sure I personally would have done some things differently, but doing some things differently is not the same as having a problem with his approach. 

 

If you can name me a more talented team the past 20 years than the squad we have now then I'll listen, but I'll be pretty hard to do. 

If you believe the Jets are Super Bowl contenders this year, then your argument for Macc building a talented team is correct. But they're not contenders, at all, and by the time they are, the WR1, QB, and starting RB are gone with no apparent replacements on the roster today. This is why this regime appears to be heading down the same path as previous failed regimes: because instead of building toward the future, they're chasing their tails trying to plug holes on a rickety roster that won a few more games than they thought it would at the expense of long-term viability. And, yes, if they weren't going to draft Lynch, they should have drafted Laquon Treadwell or Josh Doctson. Consider how amazing Darron Lee is going to have to become to justify his draft slot. Then to come back and draft Hackenberg because of a weird man-crush based on an alleged tip from Bill O'Brien seems like a bad bet. I really, really hate that pick. 

[Villain The Foe]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If you believe the Jets are Super Bowl contenders this year, then your argument for Macc building a talented team is correct. But they're not contenders, at all, and by the time they are, the WR1, QB, and starting RB are gone with no apparent replacements on the roster today. This is why this regime appears to be heading down the same path as previous failed regimes: because instead of building toward the future, they're chasing their tails trying to plug holes on a rickety roster that won a few more games than they thought it would at the expense of long-term viability. And, yes, if they weren't going to draft Lynch, they should have drafted Laquon Treadwell or Josh Doctson. Consider how amazing Darron Lee is going to have to become to justify his draft slot. Then to come back and draft Hackenberg because of a weird man-crush based on an alleged tip from Bill O'Brien seems like a bad bet. I really, really hate that pick. 

lol. You're dodging. Name me a more talented team than this. How is this the same as past regimes. I never seen a past regime put talent on the field while building for the future on the back end. The buidling for the future on the back end has always been the problem. 

Macc has completely revamped our Safety situation with one great free agency decision. Marcus Williams (an Idzik guy) is now taking over at the #2 spot. Skrine is arguably the best slot CB in the league (Macc guy). Marshall has atleast 2 seasons left in him including this year, thats the same for Decker. Macc is the first GM that drafted a QB without the intention of throwing him out to the wolves immediately. The Jets have arguably the best rb backfield in the league in respects to versatility. Robinson and Powell are both young backs and he signed Forte for less than what Ivory signed. We drafted Mauldin which is promising, Williams which is promising, we have a punting competition, a kicking competition, he revamped our LB corp in 1 season while making the team immediately competitive and not giving the excuse that "we cannot be competitive now so we can draft young talent and develop them. This dude got that 32 year old WR in Marshall for a 5th round pick. He got a 4 time probowl LT (though injury prone) for a 5th round pick. 

 

What more do you want from this man? At first I said that I wasnt talking about you personally, but about the fanbase in general....but you're showing to be part of that fanbase. Macc has been here for 1 season while coming off a GM of the year season and you're complaining about hypotheticals such as Drew Brees and potential early retirements from WR's who are still on the team and was a top 3-5 best in the league. You're nitpicking. 

[T0mShane]

14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If you believe the Jets are Super Bowl contenders this year, then your argument for Macc building a talented team is correct. But they're not contenders, at all, and by the time they are, the WR1, QB, and starting RB are gone with no apparent replacements on the roster today. This is why this regime appears to be heading down the same path as previous failed regimes: because instead of building toward the future, they're chasing their tails trying to plug holes on a rickety roster that won a few more games than they thought it would at the expense of long-term viability. And, yes, if theyrd man-crush based on an alleged tip from Bill O'Brien seems like a bad bet. I really, really hate that pick. 

Quote system

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

lol. You're dodging. Name me a more talented team than this. How is this the same as past regimes. I never seen a past regime put talent on the field while building for the future on the back end. The buidling for the future on the back end has always been the problem. 

Macc has completely revamped our Safety situation with one great free agency decision. Marcus Williams (an Idzik guy) is now taking over at the #2 spot. Skrine is arguably the best slot CB in the league (Macc guy). Marshall has atleast 2 seasons left in him including this year, thats the same for Decker. Macc is the first GM that drafted a QB without the intention of throwing him out to the wolves immediately. The Jets have arguably the best rb backfield in the league in respects to versatility. Robinson and Powell are both young backs and he signed Forte for less than what Ivory signed. We drafted Mauldin which is promising, Williams which is promising, we have a punting competition, a kicking competition, he revamped our LB corp in 1 season while making the team immediately competitive and not giving the excuse that "we cannot be competitive now so we can draft young talent and develop them. This dude got that 32 year old WR in Marshall for a 5th round pick. He got a 4 time probowl LT (though injury prone) for a 5th round pick. 

 

What more do you want from this man? At first I said that I wasnt talking about you personally, but about the fanbase in general....but you're showing to be part of that fanbase. Macc has been here for 1 season while coming off a GM of the year season and you're complaining about hypotheticals such as Drew Brees and potential early retirements from WR's who are still on the team and was a top 3-5 best in the league. You're nitpicking. 

I'm not nitpicking, I don't think. I'm having a conversation about the trajectory of the roster and its chances of becoming a contender within four years, and the early moves Macc is making are a mixed bag, at best. I'm not sure what the value is of having the "most talented roster" since Parcells if that roster is 1. Built for the short term and 2. Isn't a contender. It's almost irrelevant that the roster is talented (relative to prior Jets rosters) right now if most of that talent is old and won't be here when the team should be ready to compete for a title. It's fair to question, at this point, what Maccagnan's plan is when he's guaranteeing starting jobs to Ryan Fitzpatrick and Matt Forte while at the same time drafting ILB's in the first round and paying slot CB's $7 mil per.

[LIJetsFan]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I'm not nitpicking, I don't think. I'm having a conversation about the trajectory of the roster and its chances of becoming a contender within four years, and the early moves Macc is making are a mixed bag, at best. I'm not sure what the value is of having the "most talented roster" since Parcells if that roster is 1. Built for the short term and 2. Isn't a contender. It's almost irrelevant that the roster is talented (relative to prior Jets rosters) right now if most of that talent is old and won't be here when the team should be ready to compete for a title. It's fair to question, at this point, what Maccagnan's plan is when he's guaranteeing starting jobs to Ryan Fitzpatrick and Matt Forte while at the same time drafting ILB's in the first round and paying slot CB's $7 mil per.

For me, it's not SB or bust.

 A team with this much talent is going to be fun to watch this year and next, to say the least.  As for building for the future, that remains to be seen.  Mac inherited a disaster of a roster.  It'll take time, and in the meanwhile a team with this much talent will be fun to watch.

With our D I think 8-8 is the floor for 2016-2017.  How high is up?  Watching for that will be the fun part.   

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, T0mShane said:

I'm not nitpicking, I don't think. I'm having a conversation about the trajectory of the roster and its chances of becoming a contender within four years, and the early moves Macc is making are a mixed bag, at best. I'm not sure what the value is of having the "most talented roster" since Parcells if that roster is 1. Built for the short term and 2. Isn't a contender. It's almost irrelevant that the roster is talented (relative to prior Jets rosters) right now if most of that talent is old and won't be here when the team should be ready to compete for a title. It's fair to question, at this point, what Maccagnan's plan is when he's guaranteeing starting jobs to Ryan Fitzpatrick and Matt Forte while at the same time drafting ILB's in the first round and paying slot CB's $7 mil per.

You believe that the roster isnt a contender. Thats your personal belief. I believe that this team can win 10-11 games this season, which could make them a playoff team which means that they would be a contender....and that's my belief.  A mix bag is exactly what this team needed. Some young talent that needs to learn the pro game along with an injection of veteran talent that can immediately revamp the team into a contender while at the same time teaching and molding the young talent drafted. 

 

You keep talking about "built for the short term", though the only position that we havent really touched with significant draft picks are the offensive line. Furthermore, I dont expect any GM to fix everything in 1 year. With that said though, he has introduced some talent to the offensive line such as Kyle friend, Brandon Shell and the guy he drafted last season. Brian Winters had his best season of his career under Macc/Bowles and James Carpenter has been a huge upgrade at the LG position. 

The Jets have a top RB corp, the #1 WR duo, we replaced Snacks with a competent replacement, we drafted Wilk's replacement last season, we have one of the top Dline's, we have a solid secondary we have a revamped LB corp along with with imo the most important of all....competent coaches. 

 

To so nonchalantly assume that this team arent competitors is a joke to me. You pay slot CB's 7 million per because they're starters. Macc then turns around and drafts a CB in the 4th which was a value pick given the talent along with picking up talent in UDRFA. 

 

I cant convince you of my feelings of this team being a contender, but the fact that I've seen those Parcell teams along with those AFCCG teams under Rex and I feel like the talent and coaching (in respects to Rex) is better today gives me the feeling that we're in a very good situation here, and this schedule will basically be a "show and prove" season given that we'll be playing alot of teams that will be competiting for that championship. 

[mphtrilogy]

Has cimini ever written a positive ota on a rookie?  25 years of this stuff...

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

22 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Well he wasn't accurate in college.

Correct, with a 56% completion rate in college, I am not sure how this article qualifies as news, Hack is a 2-3 year project, not shocking that he does not look good in OTA's

Props to Shane and Foe - good discussion back a forth makes for a great read (much better then the article) refreshing to see good points articulated without the name calling - cheers

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

For me, it's not SB or bust.

 A team with this much talent is going to be fun to watch this year and next, to say the least.  As for building for the future, that remains to be seen.  Mac inherited a disaster of a roster.  It'll take time, and in the meanwhile a team with this much talent will be fun to watch.

With our D I think 8-8 is the floor for 2016-2017.  How high is up?  Watching for that will be the fun part.   

Yeah, I hear you, but I'm also of the belief that chasing 8-8 ⎌is kinda fool's gold, and Macc has placed a priority on at least appearing competitive in the short term. My anxiety with this approach is in how much this approach may or may not compromise the development of the roster moving forward. They're not even going to start their first round ILB this year, but they'll promise a starting job to Ryan Fitzpatrick? They had a gaggle of young CBs on the roster last year, but they gave $40 mil to Cro, Skrine, and Revis and Gilchrist? Its dangerous living, IMO, and the far majority of the consistently good teams in the league don't have this type of paranoiac fear of running young players out there. 

[Villain The Foe]

2 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Correct, with a 56% completion rate in college, I am not sure how this article qualifies as news, Hack is a 2-3 year project, not shocking that he does not look good in OTA's

Props to Shane and Foe - good discussion back a forth makes for a great read (much better then the article) refreshing to see good points articulated without the name calling - cheers

Thanks Ohio. 

 

[The Crusher]

Our project QB who stunk in college sill stinks few months later in OTA's Really? 

[ljr]

33 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

lol. You're dodging. Name me a more talented team than this. How is this the same as past regimes. I never seen a past regime put talent on the field while building for the future on the back end. The buidling for the future on the back end has always been the problem. 

Macc has completely revamped our Safety situation with one great free agency decision. Marcus Williams (an Idzik guy) is now taking over at the #2 spot. Skrine is arguably the best slot CB in the league (Macc guy). Marshall has atleast 2 seasons left in him including this year, thats the same for Decker. Macc is the first GM that drafted a QB without the intention of throwing him out to the wolves immediately. The Jets have arguably the best rb backfield in the league in respects to versatility. Robinson and Powell are both young backs and he signed Forte for less than what Ivory signed. We drafted Mauldin which is promising, Williams which is promising, we have a punting competition, a kicking competition, he revamped our LB corp in 1 season while making the team immediately competitive and not giving the excuse that "we cannot be competitive now so we can draft young talent and develop them. This dude got that 32 year old WR in Marshall for a 5th round pick. He got a 4 time probowl LT (though injury prone) for a 5th round pick. 

 

What more do you want from this man? At first I said that I wasnt talking about you personally, but about the fanbase in general....but you're showing to be part of that fanbase. Macc has been here for 1 season while coming off a GM of the year season and you're complaining about hypotheticals such as Drew Brees and potential early retirements from WR's who are still on the team and was a top 3-5 best in the league. You're nitpicking. 

1999 was more talented

[neckdemon]

i love the people who have just say.....get a qb. like good qb's grow on trees. look at the patriots. if they didn't step in absolute sh*t by getting a great qb in the 6th round virtually by mistake then who knows what their qb situation looks like for the past 10 years. no one knows what will become of the qb's drafted this year. can we at least see how the team performs this season before crucifying decisions? i mean are we really using limited observations from ota's as a criteria here?

[Villain The Foe]

2 minutes ago, ljr said:

1999 was more talented

You can make the argument, the fact that we have to go back almost 20 years to have a comparable team shows the great job that Macc has done in just 1 season. Macc is converting 5th round picks into veteran superstars. 

 

I'd shake that man's hand if I ever met him. F'ing genius. 

[T0mShane]

23 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

You believe that the roster isnt a contender. Thats your personal belief. I believe that this team can win 10-11 games this season, which could make them a playoff team which means that they would be a contender....and that's my belief.  A mix bag is exactly what this team needed. Some young talent that needs to learn the pro game along with an injection of veteran talent that can immediately revamp the team into a contender while at the same time teaching and molding the young talent drafted. 

 

You keep talking about "built for the short term", though the only position that we havent really touched with significant draft picks are the offensive line. Furthermore, I dont expect any GM to fix everything in 1 year. With that said though, he has introduced some talent to the offensive line such as Kyle friend, Brandon Shell and the guy he drafted last season. Brian Winters had his best season of his career under Macc/Bowles and James Carpenter has been a huge upgrade at the LG position. 

The Jets have a top RB corp, the #1 WR duo, we replaced Snacks with a competent replacement, we drafted Wilk's replacement last season, we have one of the top Dline's, we have a solid secondary we have a revamped LB corp along with with imo the most important of all....competent coaches. 

 

To so nonchalantly assume that this team arent competitors is a joke to me. You pay slot CB's 7 million per because they're starters. Macc then turns around and drafts a CB in the 4th which was a value pick given the talent along with picking up talent in UDRFA. 

 

I cant convince you of my feelings of this team being a contender, but the fact that I've seen those Parcell teams along with those AFCCG teams under Rex and I feel like the talent and coaching (in respects to Rex) is better today gives me the feeling that we're in a very good situation here, and this schedule will basically be a "show and prove" season given that we'll be playing alot of teams that will be competiting for that championship. 

I see here the crux of our disagreement, sir. If you believe the team is a contender now, then it's understandable to believe Macc is doing an A+ job. But if, as I do, you don't think they're contenders right now (or even next year with Hack starting) you're starting to get that Jets-induced eye-twitch thing.

[ljr]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

You can make the argument, the fact that we have to go back almost 20 years to have a comparable team shows the great job that Macc has done. Macc is converting 5th round picks into veteran superstars. 

 

I'd shake that man's hand if I ever met him. F'ing genius. 

I am very impressed with the job Mac has done as well.

i make the argument because 1999 was better & odds on favorite to win the Super Bowl.

Mac did take a stand against Lynch ... Will be very interesting to see what happens with him , Lee & Hack over the years

[Villain The Foe]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I see here the crux of our disagreement, sir. If you believe the team is a contender now, then it's understandable to believe Macc is doing an A+ job. But if, as I do, you do t think they're contenders right now (or even next year with Hack starting) you're starting to get that Jets-induced eye-twitch thing.

We'll find out come December. Good convo. 

[T0mShane]

11 minutes ago, ljr said:

1999 was more talented

Look at the young talent on the roster, too: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/1999_roster.htm

 

Parcells set up Al Groh and Herm for a nice run there. 

[Jetster]

24 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

For me, it's not SB or bust.

 A team with this much talent is going to be fun to watch this year and next, to say the least.  As for building for the future, that remains to be seen.  Mac inherited a disaster of a roster.  It'll take time, and in the meanwhile a team with this much talent will be fun to watch.

With our D I think 8-8 is the floor for 2016-2017.  How high is up?  Watching for that will be the fun part.   

In this league your goal 1st is get in the tournament as Parcells use to say. With a really good defense, that's usually better as the season progresses & you incorporate the young guys & a Marshall-Decker-Forte trifecta if guys are healthy & your in the playoffs anything can happen. You see it every year. What kind of horseshoe has Seattle had up their azz? I mean seriously, if that were the Jets & your sitting watching the opposing kicker needing to make a chip shot you know damn well he ain't missing it! I was SHOCKED when the Giants kicker missed against us, it seemed like years since ANY kicker missed against us,lol. 58 yards? No problemo it's vs the Jets.

 

[FTL Jet Fan]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

If you believe the Jets are Super Bowl contenders this year, then your argument for Macc building a talented team is correct. But they're not contenders, at all, and by the time they are, the WR1, QB, and starting RB are gone with no apparent replacements on the roster today. This is why this regime appears to be heading down the same path as previous failed regimes: because instead of building toward the future, they're chasing their tails trying to plug holes on a rickety roster that won a few more games than they thought it would at the expense of long-term viability. And, yes, if they weren't going to draft Lynch, they should have drafted Laquon Treadwell or Josh Doctson. Consider how amazing Darron Lee is going to have to become to justify his draft slot. Then to come back and draft Hackenberg because of a weird man-crush based on an alleged tip from Bill O'Brien seems like a bad bet. I really, really hate that pick. 

Couldn't of said it better myself. Lee is going to have to be something special. I was on board for drafting Treadwell or JD if they didn't take Lycnh, but I give Mac credit to have the balls to pass on Lynch and select Hack. 

[T0mShane]

9 minutes ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

Couldn't of said it better myself. Lee is going to have to be something special. I was on board for drafting Treadwell or JD if they didn't take Lycnh, but I give Mac credit to have the balls to pass on Lynch and select Hack. 

The Hack v Lynch story is going to be fun to watch, but it also has great and vast potential to cause a mass suicide on the East Coast. When we passed on Lynch, I was ok with it until Elway traded up for him. Then I got sick when we drafted Hack knowing that the reason why we passed on Lynch was because Maccagnan wanted Hack instead. The stories coming out of OTAs in Denver are that Lynch is still struggling with the playbook, but has looked good throwing the football, particularly on the move. Meanwhile, the stories with Hackenberg have all been about how he's struggling with the act of throwing the football, so much so that the Jets have stashed him on the far practice field, away from the media. 

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

Couldn't of said it better myself. Lee is going to have to be something special. I was on board for drafting Treadwell or JD if they didn't take Lycnh, but I give Mac credit to have the balls to pass on Lynch and select Hack. 

I think Bowles has some serious plans for Lee's athleticism and speed. those A and B gap blitzing is going to be a sight to see. The fact that he can cover a bit will also free up a safety as well. Lee could make this defense even more versatile. 

Lee is no Telvin Smith or Ryan Shazier...but he has possess some qualities from both players. Lee will definitely need some time to learn the position, but he's most definitely an athlete, something that we havent had at the position since Aaron Maybin (in terms of athleticism), and even Maybin didnt have nearly the speed as Lee. Add to the fact that Lee has virtually no injury history (Dee Milliner).

[RutgersJetFan]

33 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The stories coming out of OTAs in Denver are that Lynch is still struggling with the playbook, but has looked good throwing the football, particularly on the move. 

To bad for him he's competing with Mark "Playbook Slayer" Sanchez. 

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

To bad for him he's competing with Mark "Playbook Slayer" Sanchez. 

We need to make that stick.