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So today had other plans. What did I miss?

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During OTAs, and now minicamp, Hackenberg has been “off” more times than not in individual and team drills. At times, he’ll make a beautiful, pin-point pass. . . but then follow with an off-target throw on the easiest of should-be completions.

Sounds like Blaine Gabbert 2.0 

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2 hours ago, Maxman said:

So today had other plans. What did I miss?

After the munchkins went swimming in the morning, then they made lanyard keychain so in arts & crafts. Then lunch, then newcomb, then kickball, then snack, then soccer, then went home. One of them got a bad scrape on his knee sliding in kickball and 2 got shin bruises in soccer. Overall it was really cute, though.

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Courtesy Jets Wired

http://jetswire.usatoday.com/2016/06/14/jets-minicamp-report-tuesdays-highlights-observations-notes/

NOTES:

  • The Jets gave their punt returners a sizeable amount of work Tuesday — which means expect kick returners to be out there Wednesday. Back returning were the same similar faces as OTAs. Running back Romar Morris joined receiversCharone Peake, Chandler Worthy, Kyle Williams andJeremy Ross to field punts.
  • Speaking of Williams, he was at practice on a tryout basis, along with linebacker Victor Butler. Williams worked out for the Jets once before during the height of free agency, but didn’t sign. At the time of this publishing, both players are still unsigned.
  • Jets kickers Nick Folk and Ross Martin (UDFA from Duke) each ran through the kicking gauntlet. Basically, they try kicks from 25 yards and out one after another. Folk’s leg looked just fine, as he came a yard away from hitting one from 63. Martin missed two — from 63, and 45.
  • Injured tight end Kellen Davis, who had thumb surgery last week, was practicing in a limited capacity. He did individuals, but no team drills.

OBSERVATIONS

  • Two under-the-radar guys worth monitoring now and during training camp? Running back Romar Morris and wideout Jalin Marshall. The two have flashed a bit during both OTAs, and now the first workout of minicamp. It appears as if the Jets like them. It’s not out of the realm of possibilities for Marshall to snag a roster spot, while Morris is likely going to be a guy that lands on the practice squad barring a PUP start for Khiry Robinson (unlikely).
  • The accuracy concerns are very real regarding Jets quarterback Christian Hackenberg. He misses throws (see here), what appears to be, all the time — individuals, team drills, etc. Be it mechanics, rushing passes or simply him being uncomfortable as a rookie, it isn’t pretty for New York’s second-round pick. It’ll be interesting to see how he progresses.
  • There’s a very real chance rookie Jordan Jenkins is the Jets starting outside linebacker Week 1. He had a ton of first-team reps the third week of OTAs, and got a ton more the first practice in minicamp. He looked comfortable there, too. Got in for two would-be sacks.
  • If Dee Milliner keeps playing like he is now, and stays healthy, he may be a player that forces his way on the field. He had another really nice practice, and you can tell he’s got loads of confidence. How? He’s regularly, after every play, trash-talking with Brandon Marshall.
  • The tight end position is wide open and appears it will remain that way entering training camp. By my count, everyone got some first-team reps with Jace Amaro, ZachSudfeld and Brandon Bostick getting the majority of the looks. After the first OTA, Amaro looked to be the favorite to land the position. Now? It’s anyone’s spot.
  • A breakout candidate for 2016? Lorenzo Mauldin. Yes, these are unpadded practices. Yes, no contact is allowed. But the dude just flies around the ball. He’s extremely, extremely active, but unlike last year, that never-ending motor is now accompanied by discipline.
  • None of the quarterbacks looked good. That was obvious. Geno Smith and Bryce Petty threw interceptions, Christian Hackenberg was incredibly inaccurate, and the offense sputtered throughout practice as a result. During the three OTAs open to the media earlier in the month, the quarterbacks looked solid (for the most part). Today was another story. If this is how they looked during the seven OTAs not open to the media? Sheesh. . . Fitzpatrick’s value may have spiked. Seriously, it wasn’t pretty.

HIGHLIGHTS

  • Ok, maybe this is a low light, but funny nonetheless. WFAN’s Chris Lopresti maybe had the catch of the day? From the pocket, Hackenberg lofted one near the sideline but way out of bounds. Lopresti caught it with NJAM’s Darryl Slater draped all over him.
  • Dee Milliner made a handful of really nice defensive plays Tuesday. On a deep-in from Geno Smith to Kenbrell Thompkins, Milliner jumped in front of it and batted it down for a near interception. Later, when Smith tried to go deep to Thompkins, Milliner blanketed Thompkins and drove him to the sideline before turning his head around just in time to bat the ball away. Again, from OTAs, to now the first practice of minicamp, Milliner has looked great.
  • Linebacker Lorenzo Mauldin had two would-be sacks, one coming around offensive tackle Breno Giacomini. He also had one TFL where he beat Ryan Clady.
  • Charone Peake had a flashy day. He caught a ball deep down the sideline in between two defenders from Hackenberg. It should be noted that had this been a game, it’s very likely the safety there (Ronald Martin) lights Peake up. Peake later caught a touchdown from Bryce Petty on a post in red zone drills.
  • Jordan Jenkins got involved a bit as a pass rusher. By my count, he had two would-be sacks. There’s a reason he is getting all these first-team reps.
  • There were two interceptions thrown by the quarterbacks today — one by Bryce Petty, the other by Geno Smith, and both were poor passes. Petty’s first: The quarterback tried to go to Zach Sudfeld deep down the seam, but Kevin Short(more on him here) got in front of the overthrow and picked it off. It was a great adjustment by Short because it appeared as if he was covering another player before breaking off his assignment to get involved on the play. Smith’s, also a bad play, came when he tried to bomb the ball deep down the field into double coverage to Eric Decker. Reserve safetyDoug Middleton trotted over from his centerfield position to pick it off.
  • Calvin Pryor nearly had an interception but dropped it. He undercut a Hackenberg sideline pass and had nothing but green in front of him had he caught it. He got some hazing from his teammates after that one. Of note– That play never would have happened in a game because Jordan Jenkins would have sacked Hackenberg. But, because this is practice, the play went on.
  • Aside from Lopresti (joking), the catch-of-the-day was made by Brandon MarshallIn red zone drills, Smith went deep to the wideout on a longer fade. Marshall went up, grabbed the ball at its highest point and toe-tapped the corner pylon with Dexter McDougle draped all over him.
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Victor Butler is a free agent try out? I remember wanting to sign several free agency's ago before he went to the Saints.  

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32 minutes ago, Colgateman said:

So apparently Charone Peake made some crazy catches today. I don't get the concern over his hands.

It's usually consistency. Players with bad hands usually end up making some of the best catches while dropping the easiest ones.  

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8 hours ago, AFJF said:

Hack pass was so far out of bounds that Chris Lopresti of WFAN made the catch.

IIRC, Hack also had best pass of the day on bomb to Charone Peake.

Sounds like a younger Eli Manning. Could hit Plaxico in stride with a dead-on strike downfield, then the next pass could end up in the freaking stands. We should be so lucky. Our receivers should put stickem on their helmets just in case.

Seriously, that's great that he had a nice bomb to Peake, but how the hell is a throw that far off target? To be fair, though, how far OOB was Lopresti? Only 3-5 yards, which still isn't great, or more like 10+ yards, where it's like what do you even do with that?

From that and all we've heard/seen from his PSU time, it looks like we'll be lucky if he's ready halfway through next year, because they have to re-teach him how to move/place his feet. Physically he can obviously do it, as evidenced by many plays he made in college and this supposedly beautiful bomb to Peake yesterday, but that teaching/re-teaching likely has to be over and over for so long, away from panic situations (like being on a field sans red jersey) until it becomes second nature (so he doesn't revert to his current form when facing a pass rush). Who could even say how long that would take? Could take less than a year; could take 3 or 4. Fingers crossed that it's closer to the former.

Thanks for the update.

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8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Sounds like a younger Eli Manning. Could hit Plaxico in stride with a dead-on strike downfield, then the next pass could end up in the freaking stands. We should be so lucky. Our receivers should put stickem on their helmets just in case.

Seriously, that's great that he had a nice bomb to Peake, but how the hell is a throw that far off target? To be fair, though, how far OOB was Lopresti? Only 3-5 yards, which still isn't great, or more like 10+ yards, where it's like what do you even do with that?

From that and all we've heard/seen from his PSU time, it looks like we'll be lucky if he's ready halfway through next year, because they have to re-teach him how to move/place his feet. Physically he can obviously do it, as evidenced by many plays he made in college and this supposedly beautiful bomb to Peake yesterday, but that teaching/re-teaching likely has to be over and over for so long, away from panic situations (like being on a field sans red jersey) until it becomes second nature (so he doesn't revert to his current form when facing a pass rush). Who could even say how long that would take? Could take less than a year; could take 3 or 4. Fingers crossed that it's closer to the former.

Thanks for the update.

It sounds like he might have a Mackey Sasser thing going on with short passes and screens.  I hope that he can pull it together.

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1 minute ago, Bruce Harper said:

It sounds like he might have a Mackey Sasser thing going on with short passes and screens.  I hope that he can pull it together.

There's a name from the past. So strange when that happens, but it sometimes does.

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3 hours ago, j4jets said:

It's usually consistency. Players with bad hands usually end up making some of the best catches while dropping the easiest ones.  

Last year he had the same drop rate as Treadwell and Fuller, I really don't think his hands are too much of an issue 

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10 hours ago, AFJF said:

Off the top of my head per twitter beat writers...

All QB's looked bad

Milliner looked fantastic, broke up several passes.

Mauldin was all over the place with a couple of "sacks" and at least one TFL.

Kevin Short had an INT (interesting prospect IMO, good size and versatile)

Doug Middleton picked off a Geno pass in to double coverage

All TE's were getting a good look...legit competition?

Mangold got some rest with Dozier getting his reps at center.

Jordan Jenkns looked good...I believe it was Connor Hughes who said he thinks he could start week 1.

Pryor had a dropped INT.

Hack pass was so far out of bounds that Chris Lopresti of WFAN made the catch.

IIRC, Hack also had best pass of the day on bomb to Charone Peake.

 

That's all i got

 

The press keeps reminding us of the stupid QB situation, but I'll tell you... I'm pretty excited about the makeup of this team. 

Our defense may be good enough to offset turnovers by QB position, no matter who it is. So, imagine we have an offense that can score 3 TDs per game, but turns it over twice a game too. I think 21-24 points is going to keep us in most games, and that's the "floor" of the offense.

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8 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

The press keeps reminding us of the stupid QB situation, but I'll tell you... I'm pretty excited about the makeup of this team. 

Our defense may be good enough to offset turnovers by QB position, no matter who it is. So, imagine we have an offense that can score 3 TDs per game, but turns it over twice a game too. I think 21-24 points is going to keep us in most games, and that's the "floor" of the offense.

The other thing to note is that the Jets have a really good defense. So anytime the QBs look good- its against a very good defense, anytime they look bad, well, its against a very good defense. 

Hack is a rookie and his accuracy issues have been well documented (whatever the reason). That does not mean he can't turn into a stud QB. Right now, he looks like a rookie that has accuracy issues. Enough with the Gabbert 2.0 talk. @jetrider, can we at least give this kid a chance to step on the field (whenever that may be) before we decide if he is any good...

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15 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

The press keeps reminding us of the stupid QB situation, but I'll tell you... I'm pretty excited about the makeup of this team. 

Our defense may be good enough to offset turnovers by QB position, no matter who it is. So, imagine we have an offense that can score 3 TDs per game, but turns it over twice a game too. I think 21-24 points is going to keep us in most games, and that's the "floor" of the offense.

21-24 is MASSIVELY optimistic.  The Jets were the only team in the league last year to score 17 points a game, this with a reasonable turnover rate and very low sack rate and 3rd best redzone offense.   Unless a huge light bulb suddenly goes on for Geno if we go into this season with these QBs we are so totally f'ed we'll be getting it from the front an back and waste a potentially good defense.

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Just now, Beerfish said:

21-24 is MASSIVELY optimistic.  The Jets were the only team in the league last year to score 17 points a game, this with a reasonable turnover rate and very low sack rate and 3rd best redzone offense.   Unless a huge light bulb suddenly goes on for Geno if we go into this season with these QBs we are so totally f'ed we'll be getting it from the front an back and waste a potentially good defense.

I know it's optimistic, that's why I said it.

There's not much point in suggesting we might score 10 points a game on average.

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9 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

LMAO at some of you guys. 

Hack comes into the draft as a guy with a ton of  upside but has some mechanical issues that need to be worked out. We are in mini-camp and everyone is shocked that he has mechanical issues. Did any of you actually think that he would fix all of his issues by June? Seriously? 

QBs with no issues can struggle early on in camp and many still struggle deep into their first year. Everyone take a deep breath and come back to me if these issues are still a problem next year when most of us hope he'll be ready to take over as the starter. 

I'm still looking for the tons of upside on this dude.  Inaccurate, mechanics shot, beat to crap the last two years, even in his 1st year he was not earth shattering good at penn state.  Now I'd be fine taking your tact on this player if he was a charon peake like 7th round pick but a 2nd rounder shouldn't be looking so thoroughly awful.  In any case he will get his time and his chance, the guys that run the jets don;t give a fig what naysayers like me think or what over optimistic guys think.

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Just now, Beerfish said:

I'm still looking for the tons of upside on this dude.  Inaccurate, mechanics shot, beat to crap the last two years, even in his 1st year he was not earth shattering good at penn state.  Now I'd be fine taking your tact on this player if he was a charon peake like 7th round pick but a 2nd rounder shouldn't be looking so thoroughly awful.  In any case he will get his time and his chance, the guys that run the jets don;t give a fig what naysayers like me think or what over optimistic guys think.

Every player to come out has "tons of upside". Personally, I think it's a blanket statement that doesn't mean much... I think what people are truly referring to when they talk about Hack's upside is the perceived reversibility of his flaws. Meaning, some players people think suck, some are just going to be great, and then there's others that have clear ability but a curve... which creates the romantic notion of "he could be the one". 

Hack has that. 

I'd say mostly because he's a QB that was drafted by the Jets. Petty had it too. Geno had it. Brett Ratliffe. Kellen Clemens. Sanchez even... lol

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Maybe Milliner can stay healthy and justify  a number one pick. 

Qb situation all looked bad- the story of my entire jet fan history

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6 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I'm still looking for the tons of upside on this dude.  Inaccurate, mechanics shot, beat to crap the last two years, even in his 1st year he was not earth shattering good at penn state.  Now I'd be fine taking your tact on this player if he was a charon peake like 7th round pick but a 2nd rounder shouldn't be looking so thoroughly awful.  In any case he will get his time and his chance, the guys that run the jets don;t give a fig what naysayers like me think or what over optimistic guys think.

Does it really matter?  He was never going to start this season to begin with.  Wasnt it you that posted the 2nd round QB picks of like the last 10 years?  Only 3 of the 20 or so taken started their first season.  Is it really that far fetched to think by this time next year, he's fixed some of his mechanics and he becomes a more accurate passer?

I think it's pretty natural for a QB to become more accurate with time.  Dont see why this kid is different. 

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Just now, JiF said:

Does it really matter?  He was never going to start this season to begin with.  Wasnt it you that posted the 2nd round QB picks of like the last 10 years?  Only 3 of the 20 or so taken started their first season.  Is it really that far fetched to think by this time next year, he's fixed some of his mechanics and he becomes a more accurate passer?

I think it's pretty natural for a QB to become more accurate with time.  Dont see why this kid is different. 

This.

However, to come to a fan forum with a reasonable expectation like this and think that it'll appeal to the majority, is foolish. 

 

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8 minutes ago, JiF said:

Does it really matter?  He was never going to start this season to begin with.  Wasnt it you that posted the 2nd round QB picks of like the last 10 years?  Only 3 of the 20 or so taken started their first season.  Is it really that far fetched to think by this time next year, he's fixed some of his mechanics and he becomes a more accurate passer?

I think it's pretty natural for a QB to become more accurate with time.  Dont see why this kid is different. 

I see development as a distance, if you are starting out closer to a goal (smart, played in pro offense, throw reasonably well, recent good history) then it is relalistic to think a guy is going to make a jump the next year.  If you are really far away from that then add a year more.  Accuracy is a real big problem, many QB's just do not make big leaps in this reagard.  All I know so far is that Hackenburg sounds worse than  Geno, Sanchez, Petty, Clemens, friggin Ratliff, et all in his 1st workouts.

 

And yes it does matter because how a team handles its resources long term helps determine success.  If you draft mid round talent in the 2nd round often enough you dilute talent.

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20 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

21-24 is MASSIVELY optimistic.  The Jets were the only team in the league last year to score 17 points a game, this with a reasonable turnover rate and very low sack rate and 3rd best redzone offense.   Unless a huge light bulb suddenly goes on for Geno if we go into this season with these QBs we are so totally f'ed we'll be getting it from the front an back and waste a potentially good defense.

Wrong. The Jets averaged 24 points per game. Where are you getting your information from lol?

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34 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

LMAO at some of you guys. 

Hack comes into the draft as a guy with a ton of  upside but has some mechanical issues that need to be worked out. We are in mini-camp and everyone is shocked that he has mechanical issues. Did any of you actually think that he would fix all of his issues by June? Seriously? 

QBs with no issues can struggle early on in camp and many still struggle deep into their first year. Everyone take a deep breath and come back to me if these issues are still a problem next year when most of us hope he'll be ready to take over as the starter. 

 

You can really tell who actually watched him play in NCAA... He had more than just "mechanical" issues. And "needing to be worked out" is FAR from a guarantee. 80% of QBs with mechanical issues never stop sucking in the NFL. 

I'm ok with ppl wanting Hack to be the savior, and hoping he can be developed.... but this apologist, gloss over attitude -- "Hey!! the guy was always expected to be some work!!" -- bullsh*t is for the playground. The dude is god damn mess and a borderline moronic investment. If Aaron Rodgers is your QB, you can afford to invest in Brett Hundley.. when Ryan and Geno are at the helm, you don't fcking blow a pick on project Hack.

...that narrative is going to exist until Hack disproves it (if ever), so deal with it. 

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5 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Wrong. The Jets averaged 24 points per game. Where are you getting your information from lol?

Averaging means you score 35 a few games and 10 some games and 9 some games and 37 some games.  A minimum base score per game is what 'gives you a chance to win every game.'  The Jets were the only team in the leauge to score at LEAST 17 points per game.

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4 minutes ago, Paradis said:

80% of QBs with mechanical issues never stop sucking in the NFL. 

Do you have a source for this statistic?

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21 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

21-24 is MASSIVELY optimistic.  The Jets were the only team in the league last year to score 17 points a game, this with a reasonable turnover rate and very low sack rate and 3rd best redzone offense.   Unless a huge light bulb suddenly goes on for Geno if we go into this season with these QBs we are so totally f'ed we'll be getting it from the front an back and waste a potentially good defense.

Sure, the light must go on for Geno...given that he's young, but its still a team effort. It's also great to have redzone targets like Decker and Marshall to throw to. I dont want to pretend like the light bulb for Geno was solely the problem and not the talent of the targets on the field or the coaching on the sideline. 

Its a little convenient to put everything on Geno's plate, yet if things go well be the first to say that it was either his targets or the defense carrying him. Thats precisely what we heard about Mark Sanchez, yet the Jets with Sanchez was #1 in the league in Red Zone offense in 2011...the same year Jets fans constantly said that the Jets defense carried him. 

Sometimes its hard to discern how that works exactly. 

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1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

The press keeps reminding us of the stupid QB situation, but I'll tell you... I'm pretty excited about the makeup of this team. 

Our defense may be good enough to offset turnovers by QB position, no matter who it is. So, imagine we have an offense that can score 3 TDs per game, but turns it over twice a game too. I think 21-24 points is going to keep us in most games, and that's the "floor" of the offense.

Keyword = imagine

Jets offense didn't average 3 TDs per game against the easiest schedule in the league last year.

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16 minutes ago, jetrider said:

Keyword = imagine

Jets offense didn't average 3 TDs per game against the easiest schedule in the league last year.

It's a good thing someone was here to point out the qualifier that I used to suggest a hypothetical scenario. I would have hated to see yet another thread where half of the contributors don't know how to distinguish between hypotheticals and reality.

Thanks.

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42 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Sure, the light must go on for Geno...given that he's young, but its still a team effort. It's also great to have redzone targets like Decker and Marshall to throw to. I dont want to pretend like the light bulb for Geno was solely the problem and not the talent of the targets on the field or the coaching on the sideline. 

Its a little convenient to put everything on Geno's plate, yet if things go well be the first to say that it was either his targets or the defense carrying him. Thats precisely what we heard about Mark Sanchez, yet the Jets with Sanchez was #1 in the league in Red Zone offense in 2011...the same year Jets fans constantly said that the Jets defense carried him. 

Sometimes its hard to discern how that works exactly. 

If things go well it will be becasue Geno has improved becasue he has always had a good arm, decent accuracy at times.  Most of his failures have nothing to do with weapons at all.  Look at most of his big fail plays in the past, it wouldn't have mattered if he had Decker and Marshall on the team or not for the bonehead plays,

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12 hours ago, AFJF said:

Off the top of my head per twitter beat writers...

All QB's looked bad (not true. Geno has been killin' it.  Just look at the truckload of threads saying that very thing)

Milliner looked fantastic, broke up several passes.

Mauldin was all over the place with a couple of "sacks" and at least one TFL.

Kevin Short had an INT (interesting prospect IMO, good size and versatile)

Doug Middleton picked off a Geno pass in to double coverage (Not true.  Must have been one of the other QBs.  See comment above)

All TE's were getting a good look...legit competition?

Mangold got some rest with Dozier getting his reps at center.

Jordan Jenkns looked good...I believe it was Connor Hughes who said he thinks he could start week 1.

Pryor had a dropped INT.

Hack pass was so far out of bounds that Chris Lopresti of WFAN made the catch.

IIRC, Hack also had best pass of the day on bomb to Charone Peake.

 

That's all i got

 

Fixed

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11 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

If things go well it will be becasue Geno has improved becasue he has always had a good arm, decent accuracy at times.  Most of his failures have nothing to do with weapons at all.  Look at most of his big fail plays in the past, it wouldn't have mattered if he had Decker and Marshall on the team or not for the bonehead plays,

The two big issues with Geno are these.  Firstly there is the problem between his ears.  HI football brain processes slowly and even after he takes extra time to decide what to do  he comes to the wrong decision quite often.  Secondly, he is simply not an accurate passer of the ball.  He is not.  Frequently, the ball does not end up where he is trying to throw it even after he decides where to go.

The cumulative effect of these faults is a low completion rate and a high number of INTs.

I am not sure either of those are significantly correctable issues but it looks like we will get to see this year.

Welcome to the NY Jets circa 2016

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