Sperm Edwards Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 8 hours ago, Long Island Leprechaun said: If you believe that, then I may have to take back everything I said in agreement with you. You're telling me that the Jets passed on a potential franchise QB because he couldn't play as a rookie to take a high risk QB in the second won't play for at least two years? Of course they would say they liked him a lot. That was strictly public press fodder. Obviously, they didn't like him enough to pass on him as a low first round pick. That's definitive in my book. No, it wasn't press fodder. Bowles let it slip out at the town hall. Maccagnan was talking for a bit about the pick and conspicuously left that out. He's a bit more careful with his words. I forget the exact wording off the top of my head, but Bowles flat-out said they ultimately didn't consider Lynch in round 1 because he wouldn't be ready to start this year. Lee, on the other hand, will contribute as a rookie. That if Hackenberg needed the year to sit and learn, it was more "ok" because he was only a 2nd round pick. But he outright said they expect 1st round picks to contribute (and Lynch wasn't expected to contribute as a rookie). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 7 hours ago, PatsFanTX said: Seriously?? Brady has 4 Super Bowl rings and Fitz has never played in the playoffs. Find another crappy QB to compare Fitz to. Which has what to do with his response to your troll comment about long passing game? Nothing. You're just spinning now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIJetsFan Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 14 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said: No, it wasn't press fodder. Bowles let it slip out at the town hall. Maccagnan was talking for a bit about the pick and conspicuously left that out. He's a bit more careful with his words. I forget the exact wording off the top of my head, but Bowles flat-out said they ultimately didn't consider Lynch in round 1 because he wouldn't be ready to start this year. Lee, on the other hand, will contribute as a rookie. That if Hackenberg needed the year to sit and learn, it was more "ok" because he was only a 2nd round pick. But he outright said they expect 1st round picks to contribute (and Lynch wasn't expected to contribute as a rookie). This is quite an interesting approach to the draft. Since we are a top D and an at least average O we'll not be selecting a QB in round 1 for years to come, unless the wheels fall off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Island Leprechaun Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 15 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said: No, it wasn't press fodder. Bowles let it slip out at the town hall. Maccagnan was talking for a bit about the pick and conspicuously left that out. He's a bit more careful with his words. I forget the exact wording off the top of my head, but Bowles flat-out said they ultimately didn't consider Lynch in round 1 because he wouldn't be ready to start this year. Lee, on the other hand, will contribute as a rookie. That if Hackenberg needed the year to sit and learn, it was more "ok" because he was only a 2nd round pick. But he outright said they expect 1st round picks to contribute (and Lynch wasn't expected to contribute as a rookie). Let me put it this way, if Carson Wentz fell to 20 and Bowles thought he'd need a year to develop, do you really really believe he would not pick him because of that? They could not have liked Lynch much if they passed on him low in the first. They obviously had him low enough on their board that they felt he would at least be a wash compared to Hackenberg, whom they reached for. If the above is correct, they are certified morons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 15 hours ago, PatsFanTX said: Seriously?? Brady has 4 Super Bowl rings and Fitz has never played in the playoffs. Find another crappy QB to compare Fitz to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Long Island Leprechaun said: Let me put it this way, if Carson Wentz fell to 20 and Bowles thought he'd need a year to develop, do you really really believe he would not pick him because of that? They could not have liked Lynch much if they passed on him low in the first. They obviously had him low enough on their board that they felt he would at least be a wash compared to Hackenberg, whom they reached for. If the above is correct, they are certified morons. Based on what he said, yes. But in fairness to Maccagnan/Bowles, you're looking at this passing up on Wentz based on a false assumption. If Wentz was so raw he needed a year to develop (at least a year), then he would be a different person, a different prospect, and wouldn't be looked upon as a top-2 pick. In other words, there's the "real" Wentz that was taken #2, and the "imaginary" Wentz who would slip to #20. The "real" Wentz wouldn't (and didn't) slip to #20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Fitz is so horrible yet he'll again throw for 30+ TDs again next season after Mac gets him back on a 1-year deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrace the Suck Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 On 6/16/2016 at 0:55 PM, Mainejet said: Fitz tough opponents are dingbats. Fitz put up great numbers last season and I don't care if he did every week last season against the 42nd ranked pass defense. The point is, he EARNED another season to be the Jets starting QB. That's how simple logic works - you reward those that are deserving. Geno, on the other hand, played like sh*t for two straight seasons and then created an enormous amount of embarrassment for the Jets because he stiffed one of his teammates out of $600 and got knocked out. That is behavior that is very clearly not deserving. So once again, at least in this instance, Mac GETS it unlike the dingbats that support Geno. Those are probably the same people that think wrestling is real... Look at the context of his average numbers. He doesn't deserve anything. He wasn't a great QB. If Mac gets it why isn't he caving? Fitz playing hardball is actually an easy out for Mac not having to invest long term in a guy they know is a product of the system who's contract would be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Island Leprechaun Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 46 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: Based on what he said, yes. But in fairness to Maccagnan/Bowles, you're looking at this passing up on Wentz based on a false assumption. If Wentz was so raw he needed a year to develop (at least a year), then he would be a different person, a different prospect, and wouldn't be looked upon as a top-2 pick. In other words, there's the "real" Wentz that was taken #2, and the "imaginary" Wentz who would slip to #20. The "real" Wentz wouldn't (and didn't) slip to #20. I should have stated in more clearly. I am making the assumption that Wentz was the first or second rated QB on the Jets board. He somehow falls to 20. They assess that he will need a year to develop, given the system he is coming from in college and they are not a complete bottom feeding team without a QB. The truth is that Wentz does in fact need a year to sit, just as Mariota should have last year. The problem with taking a guy at #1 or 2 is that GM's don't feel the luxury to do that. At #20, they can. Much more common. Still, the purported reason for skipping over him is still completely stupid, IF they actually valued him higher than Hackenberg. I'm betting that they didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrace the Suck Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 20 hours ago, PatsFanTX said: BB knew he would still there in the 6th. Why draft him earlier and pay him more money than you had to? Shrewd move by BB and the Pats. Oh please, luck. Nothing more. He only got into the game because the JETS destroyed D.B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainejet Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 31 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said: Look at the context of his average numbers. He doesn't deserve anything. He wasn't a great QB. If Mac gets it why isn't he caving? Fitz playing hardball is actually an easy out for Mac not having to invest long term in a guy they know is a product of the system who's contract would be an issue. You need to read up on what both sides are pressing for. Your post is pretty much on the ridiculous side.... His numbers from last season were a quantum leap from all his prior efforts. That season, in itself, is worthy of a substantial raise. The Jets are already offering Fitz 4 times the amount he got paid last season. The market has spoken in regards to Ryan Fitzpatrick. Fitz is not going to get a better offer than about 8 million per season. Mac is not caving because he doesn't have to. The Jets want Fitz to sign a THREE year deal worth 24 million. That's what you don't get. Fitz will likely only sign a one year deal if he ends up having to settle for the Jets offer. Fitz is going to want to enter free agency next year and get signed for much more than 8 million. That will all be determined by how well he plays in 2016. Now, if you're saying Fitz had very average numbers as great QB's average numbers go, I would agree. But once again, here is what you are missing, we do NOT have any great QB's on the roster, therefore we must play who is best on our roster right now. That guy is Fitz hands down. Fitz numbers are a million times better than the 10 cent brain has ever had. So please try to get your facts straight. The Jets want Fitz for multiple years, NOT just one. Fitz only wants a one year deal because the market has spoken and he's not going to get the kind of money he is seeking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 2 hours ago, Mainejet said: You need to read up on what both sides are pressing for. Your post is pretty much on the ridiculous side.... His numbers from last season were a quantum leap from all his prior efforts. That season, in itself, is worthy of a substantial raise. The Jets are already offering Fitz 4 times the amount he got paid last season. The market has spoken in regards to Ryan Fitzpatrick. Fitz is not going to get a better offer than about 8 million per season. Mac is not caving because he doesn't have to. The Jets want Fitz to sign a THREE year deal worth 24 million. That's what you don't get. Fitz will likely only sign a one year deal if he ends up having to settle for the Jets offer. Fitz is going to want to enter free agency next year and get signed for much more than 8 million. That will all be determined by how well he plays in 2016. Now, if you're saying Fitz had very average numbers as great QB's average numbers go, I would agree. But once again, here is what you are missing, we do NOT have any great QB's on the roster, therefore we must play who is best on our roster right now. That guy is Fitz hands down. Fitz numbers are a million times better than the 10 cent brain has ever had. So please try to get your facts straight. The Jets want Fitz for multiple years, NOT just one. Fitz only wants a one year deal because the market has spoken and he's not going to get the kind of money he is seeking. When there's a closed market because there are no jobs to me the market hasn't spoken. And there is a pay scale in the NFL which is not just based solely on current supply and demand which fluctuates. But I agree if the Jets want to squeeze him and go below market they can probably do it. Not smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexorcism Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Blah, blah blah blah, blah blah bahity blah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexorcism Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Sorry, just felt like I should say something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant wait Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 18 hours ago, Rangers9 said: When there's a closed market because there are no jobs to me the market hasn't spoken. And there is a pay scale in the NFL which is not just based solely on current supply and demand which fluctuates. But I agree if the Jets want to squeeze him and go below market they can probably do it. Not smart. There's no jobs for ryan fitzpatrick because he's not good enough. if stafford, cutler, or even alex smith became available today they would find a job within a few hours guaranteed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 15 minutes ago, cant wait said: There's no jobs for ryan fitzpatrick because he's not good enough. if stafford, cutler, or even alex smith became available today they would find a job within a few hours guaranteed Those guys are not available because they are signed to contracts. Same goes for other Qbs. So let's stop talking fantasy football. Again you don't cut a Qb because someone better is all of a sudden free. That costs a lot of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 33 minutes ago, cant wait said: There's no jobs for ryan fitzpatrick because he's not good enough. if stafford, cutler, or even alex smith became available today they would find a job within a few hours guaranteed There was unquestionably little to no interest in Ryan Fitzpatrick at the salary level his agent was asking for. Even the Jets appear to have little interest in him at that cost-point. It's speculation only to presume what the league interest would be (or have been) for Fitz at a differing, materially lower, price point. But lets be clear, Fitz has a myriad of factors working against him in a demand for a large payday: limited success (no playoff runs), age (12 season in 2016), inconsistency over his career, limited top-level productivity prior to 2015, the inability to stay in once place for long, limited arm strength, etc. He is (as they say) what it says on the tin: a veteran journeyman, a guy who can fill a short-term gap with moderate/average performance, but is not seen (especially at this late point in his career) as any form of long-term answer. He "Fitz" in New York for a limited number of reasons: 1. Our alternatives are the worst QB in the NFL in 2013/2014, a clearly unready 2nd year developmental prospect, and a very VERY much unready rookie developmental prospect. 2. His greatest successes have been with Chan G., years where he has been at least moderately productive/consistent in this system. 3. He had a very good year of production last year and appears to have good chemistry and timing with our primary offensive drivers, Marshall and Decker. 4. He is a good locker room guy, and appears to be the kind of QB who would serve as a quality mentor to the two young QB's on the roster, Petty and Hack, where the future clearly stands. 5. He should (stress should) be affordable for a veteran mentor QB one/two year fill gap-bridger. It is this last point where the Fitz concept unravels......he has priced himself out of his skill-level and role. He appears to be asking low-end starter money, when he is clearly considered a gap-filler only. Had Fitz asked for a more moderate salary/deal, say 7 mil/year for 3 years (with the last voidable) and some heavy incentives, I believe (opinion) the league interest in him would have been higher, and he'd have already been signed by the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 On 6/18/2016 at 10:24 AM, Villain The Foe said: You do call me what you want, as long as you dont call me what I tell you not to. It's not lack of self-awareness and introspection. The only lack of awareness are people on the internet giving mental advice yet always find themselves constantly engaged in the same discussion. Hard to take that guy seriously. But anyway, its not lack of anything. I've already told you that im pretty aware, I just dont care about what/how you interpret it to the point that I must change my approach. For as long as im not breaking the rules of the forum....I dont care. I've made my point, but I will make sure to engage the discussion whenever I see the discussion being held because it interests me. You call it "derail", I call it "You dont control what I type". You call my repeating of my stance of Geno "grossly insecure", I call your repeating of giving me your opinion on my opinion "grossly insecure". I stubbornly revert back to my poorly formed social tendencies because I dont have much respect for the social norm. Thats not a defense mechanism, thats a bird being flipped. Confidence is understanding that many wont like or understand your confidence. Cool. Im like this wholly, not just within the scope of the Geno topic. I dont get too high on people who like it...and I dont get too low on people who dont. I will engage in the topic for as long and as passionately as I want, and wont think twice about your diagnosis. So, do you accept my apology already or do you want to continue demonstrating your superior awareness while continuing to engage in the same convo, putting on display your own cognitive dissonance? I mean, maybe you should have just said "I appreciate you saying that you seriously apologize if I took it wrong". Instead, you want a discussion....lol. How does that work in your head Mr. Aware? Those questions are rhetorical by the way. No need to answer it. Lets get back to the Fitz/QB topic, or you can stay here of course. Your choice, I dont care. nice melt... what the **** is this jibba-jabba? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Integrity28 said: nice melt... what the **** is this jibba-jabba? I'll take this as you being mature and accepting my apology for hurting your feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said: I'll take this as you being mature and accepting my apology for hurting your feelings. Whatever you need to tell yourself. You're more likely to convince people that you've been making a good point about Geno, than convincing them that Ape didn't make you emo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 30 minutes ago, Integrity28 said: Whatever you need to tell yourself. You're more likely to convince people that you've been making a good point about Geno, than convincing them that Ape didn't make you emo. Okay, whatever I wanna call it then. As long as we're back on the topic and not in your feelings then im good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said: Okay, whatever I wanna call it then. As long as we're back on the topic and not in your feelings then im good to go. The guy that turns every discussion into a Geno wet fart wants to be "on topic"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 3 hours ago, Integrity28 said: The guy that turns every discussion into a Geno wet fart wants to be "on topic"? And yet you want to continue to make your point so thoroughly, to the degree that you're beginning to derail this discussion. Where's the awareness? lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 On 6/18/2016 at 4:13 PM, PatsFanTX said: Does it matter if you nail a HOF QB? Nope. Belichick nailing Brady. Not surprising, but not a visual we needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Island Leprechaun Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 12 hours ago, Villain The Foe said: And yet you want to continue to make your point so thoroughly, to the degree that you're beginning to derail this discussion. Where's the awareness? lol. As an innocent bystander, I would say you both need to stop. You're starting to sound like an unhappy old married couple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Long Island Leprechaun said: As an innocent bystander, I would say you both need to stop. You're starting to sound like an unhappy old married couple. You're right. I'll cut it out with this side discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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