Do Jets fear buyer's remorse with potential Mo Wilkerson deal?

[The Crusher]

4 hours ago, Mainejet said:

1st of all, I do not have a wife, I have been divorced now for about 7 years. I have as girlfriend though, she happens to be a PATSY fan. Go figure?????? But I **** that abstinence out of her on a regular basis.

But really, all I ask is that you look at what happened with John Vilma. Vilma was lightning quick, just like Darron Lee. Vilma failed miserably in Mangini's scheme. I see the same happening with Darron Lee. I hope I'm wrong, I really do..... But I do not think I am. I see this as a wasted pick, and ultimately a deciding factor about Mike MacCagnan.  

Vilma won a Superboel in New Orleans. Lee would thrive in a system with bounties.  Same old Jets.  

[Jetfan13]

2 words: BROKEN LEG. Play for a measly 15 million and prove your health.

[PatsFanTX]

they blew it last season when they had boat loads of cap room

this is his last season as a jet, I will try to enjoy it

Spot on.

[PatsFanTX]

you can't pay one defensive player 10% of your cap. it snot a formula for winning. he wants too much money....its that simple. let him go **** up someone elses cap

Jets are already paying a declining CB 11% of their cap.

[Il Mostro]

4 hours ago, Jetfan13 said:

2 words: BROKEN LEG. Play for a measly 15 million and prove your health.

At this point, there is nothing wrong with that approach.   I think Mo should recover just fine from the type of fracture he had, but in the event he does not they can just cut him loose after the season. If he performs well, just slap him with the franchise tag again and then move on the following season. This covers the team's flanks in the event he does turn out to be damaged goods and cannot perform to his previous levels and avoids committing to a long-term deal.  The way things have played out, it is pretty clear there is no intent to spend $$$ long term and the Jets would be satisfied with two years of Mo if he plays well and parting ways sooner if he doesn't.  While I regret the fact that both sides could not strike a deal before prices for good DL players became prohibitively stupid, I honestly think their plans for Mo do not extend beyond the next year or two under any circumstances.

[Jet Nut]

On June 24, 2016 at 11:44 AM, Mainejet said:

Based on the money he is asking for? I would think so. But at the end of the day, everyone knows Mo is a great player and you will most definitely get return from him, it's just a matter of how much. Mac should really be worried about Darron Lee though. Based on his size, this is a very risky draft pick. The odds of that pick working out are stacked against him.

Who asked you about Lee? 

 

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, PatsFanTX said:

Jets are already paying a declining CB 11% of their cap.

And the Pats are paying a declining QB 11% of their cap. 

[detectivekimble]

18 hours ago, Mainejet said:

1st of all, I do not have a wife, I have been divorced now for about 7 years. I have as girlfriend though, she happens to be a PATSY fan. Go figure?????? But I **** that abstinence out of her on a regular basis.

But really, all I ask is that you look at what happened with John Vilma. Vilma was lightning quick, just like Darron Lee. Vilma failed miserably in Mangini's scheme. I see the same happening with Darron Lee. I hope I'm wrong, I really do..... But I do not think I am. I see this as a wasted pick, and ultimately a deciding factor about Mike MacCagnan.  

Lee is going to play behind the most stout DL in the NFL.  Vilma played behind an awful DL during the Mangini years.  

You forgot those little details.

[Jet Nut]

18 hours ago, Mainejet said:

1st of all, I do not have a wife, I have been divorced now for about 7 years. I have as girlfriend though, she happens to be a PATSY fan. Go figure?????? But I **** that abstinence out of her on a regular basis.

But really, all I ask is that you look at what happened with John Vilma. Vilma was lightning quick, just like Darron Lee. Vilma failed miserably in Mangini's scheme. I see the same happening with Darron Lee. I hope I'm wrong, I really do..... But I do not think I am. I see this as a wasted pick, and ultimately a deciding factor about Mike MacCagnan.  

-You mean becoming a Super Bowl Champion like Vilma did?

-Go to 3 Pro Bowls, like Vilma did?

-Become the AP NFL DROY, like Vilma did? 

-Become the combined tackles leader in 2005, like Vilma did? 

-Win the Ed Block Courage Award in 2008 like Vilma did?

You really just don't have a clue do you...

 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

The time to do this deal has largely passed. Watt and Cox provide baselines for the market for Wilkerson and the Jets seem pretty much set on not giving it to him. I mean, I love Wilk as a player, but this is the fallout when you brainlessly pick corner and Dlineman every single year in the first round. You can't sign everybody. 

This is sending a bad message in that locker room though that if you perform you won't get paid here. Whereas the Jets went spend happy in building the most expensive secondary possible and made a bad deal for Harris and now we're having to face the realities of that. 

[Savage69]

On 6/25/2016 at 0:08 AM, SenorGato said:

Disappointing but par for the course for this second rate franchise that's already dumped their best player twice in the past decade. Oh, and they started that run not long after giving up all of McKenzie/Coles/Thomas in one offseason. It's the most Jets possible outcome, so lets come up with all the narratives (not great, no one really wants him lol) to make it OK in the safe place inside our heads. Plus, Woody gets to keep his money - which he will use One Day when The Future shows up in the form of a Franchise QB. He'll have so much saved up dinero money that this Franchise QB won't even die, let alone retire, and will play forever and ever. 

 

Check out how many top players the Pats let go and Revis was one of them..

[T0mShane]

16 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

And the Pats are paying a declining QB 11% of their cap. 

I'd pay that declining player 15% of the Jets cap, tbh

[Jet Nut]

45 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I'd pay that declining player 15% of the Jets cap, tbh

So would I.  My point really was 11% isn't a problem, many if not most teams have that one player who has put himself in a position to earn big money.  Usually they get to that point when their careers peak.  

[JustInFudge]

On June 24, 2016 at 1:43 PM, T0mShane said:

I think two things are true here:

1. Paying Mo that much money is stupid and I don't think anyone will end up doing so, so Macc has nailed that part of it.

2. Not even being in position to sign Mo yet failing to trade Mo is textbook bungling.

Malik Jackson and Olivier Vernon beg to differ.

[T0mShane]

11 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

So would I.  My point really was 11% isn't a problem, many if not most teams have that one player who has put himself in a position to earn big money.  Usually they get to that point when their careers peak.  

Yeah, true. I think the bigger issue from Macc's perspective isn't the percentage of the cap Mo gets, but the percentage of the cap the entire DL group sees in two years.

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, JiF said:

Malik Jackson and Olivier Vernon beg to differ.

Iirc. Those guys got $70 mil. Mo wants 100.

[Jet Nut]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Yeah, true. I think the bigger issue from Macc's perspective isn't the percentage of the cap Mo gets, but the percentage of the cap the entire DL group sees in two years.

Agreed.  Richardson and Williams will come knocking too.  

Id still rather be in a position where my top draft picks develop to the point they'll command top dollars to keep.  Beats the hell out of being a Coples, Milliner or any other half assed 1st round pick

[Savage69]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Iirc. Those guys got $70 mil. Mo wants 100.

He must want that the Jets were in the Olivier Vernon bidding till it got over 15 million a year.

Sometimes an agent has the leverage in a deal. Canter knows he has it here, because he knows from this legal tampering period that the Jaguars, Giants and Jets badly want Vernon. What’s the worst that can happen when Canter says the deal’s going to come in at well over $15 million per year? One team, or more, drops out. And that’s what happens—the dizzying cash total causes the Jets to throw in their cards here. They don’t want to pay Vernon more than $15 million a year. But the Jags and Giants are still in.

http://mmqb.si.com/2016/03/10/olivier-vernon-new-york-giants-nfl-free-agency-blockbuster-contract

 

[T0mShane]

13 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

He must want that the Jets were in the Olivier Vernon bidding till it got over 15 million a year.

Sometimes an agent has the leverage in a deal. Canter knows he has it here, because he knows from this legal tampering period that the Jaguars, Giants and Jets badly want Vernon. What’s the worst that can happen when Canter says the deal’s going to come in at well over $15 million per year? One team, or more, drops out. And that’s what happens—the dizzying cash total causes the Jets to throw in their cards here. They don’t want to pay Vernon more than $15 million a year. But the Jags and Giants are still in.

http://mmqb.si.com/2016/03/10/olivier-vernon-new-york-giants-nfl-free-agency-blockbuster-contract

 

I'm still confused over that one, considering their cap space. I assume the move there would have been trading Mo on the cheap in order to accommodate Vernon? 

[Savage69]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I'm still confused over that one, considering their cap space. I assume the move there would have been trading Mo on the cheap in order to accommodate Vernon? 

Confusing is definitively the right word..

[Mainejet]

13 hours ago, detectivekimble said:

Lee is going to play behind the most stout DL in the NFL.  Vilma played behind an awful DL during the Mangini years.  

You forgot those little details.

BS. Complete and total BS. The 2005 team had John Abraham (multiple pro bowls), Shaun Ellis (2 tie pro bowler), Sione Pouha, Dewayne Robertson, and Bryan Thomas. PLEASE pull your head out of your A$$ before you start trying to debate me.

[Mainejet]

On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 7:30 AM, The Crusher said:

Vilma won a Superboel in New Orleans. Lee would thrive in a system with bounties.  Same old Jets.  

If he'd won a SB in NY I would have to change my tune. However, the operative phrase in your post is "IN NEW ORLEANS". He was a wonderful player in a 4-3 base. In a 3-4, he was consistently consumed by much larger men and could never get sideline to sideline. He was ultimately traded because he simply did not fit in a 3-4 base defense. Darron Lee and Jon Vilma might as well be looking in a mirror. The similarities are endless.

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, Mainejet said:

If he'd won a SB in NY I would have to change my tune. However, the operative phrase in your post is "IN NEW ORLEANS". He was a wonderful player in a 4-3 base. In a 3-4, he was consistently consumed by much larger men and could never get sideline to sideline. He was ultimately traded because he simply did not fit in a 3-4 base defense. Darron Lee and Jon Vilma might as well be looking in a mirror. The similarities are endless.

Except Vilma was a 12th overall pick and the absolute consensus pick at that spot. Lee is a poor mans Vilma if you will. Not sure him playing behind a dominant D line will help much though.  Time will tell.  

[Savage69]

3 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Except Vilma was a 12th overall pick and the absolute consensus pick at that spot. Lee is a poor mans Vilma if you will. Not sure him playing behind a dominant D line will help much though.  Time will tell.  

Bowles likes him and is a fit for his defense so time will tell is correct.. You have earned a snack.. 

[PatsFanTX]

Bowles likes him and is a fit for his defense]

Is Bowles switching to a 4-3 base this year?

[Mainejet]

19 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Except Vilma was a 12th overall pick and the absolute consensus pick at that spot. Lee is a poor mans Vilma if you will. Not sure him playing behind a dominant D line will help much though.  Time will tell.  

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make? Both teams played a 3-4 base and the first team failed miserably with a smallish type linebacker. Darron Lee has almost the identical build to Jon Vilma, both played at big time colleges with pro style schemes, and both play in a 3-4 base defense.

I believe Darron Lee will ultimately be reintroduced as a Safety or the CS will switch their base to a 4-3. The latter makes the most sense. They have a plethora of talent along the DL, it would make sense to utilize a 4 man front to incorporate all of their defensive lineman. That would also play into what Darron Lee is built to play. He's the smallish, run sideline to sideline kind of player.

The only thing is Todd Bowles is either too stubborn or too dumb, I'm really not sure what it is? He completely REFUSED to play a 4-3 in his first season in NY. But if he remains so rigid in his beliefs? He's going to find himself fired.

[Jet Nut]

33 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

If he'd won a SB in NY I would have to change my tune. However, the operative phrase in your post is "IN NEW ORLEANS". He was a wonderful player in a 4-3 base. In a 3-4, he was consistently consumed by much larger men and could never get sideline to sideline. He was ultimately traded because he simply did not fit in a 3-4 base defense. Darron Lee and Jon Vilma might as well be looking in a mirror. The similarities are endless.

Where do you pull this nonsense from? 

Explain his 3 pro bowls, DROY, leading the league in tackles...but he couldn't get from sideline to sideline?  What the hell are you talking about?  What would another friggen inch do to help someone get to a sideline?  Again, where do you come up with this 

[Dcat]

7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Where do you pull this nonsense from? 

Explain his 3 pro bowls, DROY, leading the league in tackles...but he couldn't get from sideline to sideline?  What the hell are you talking about?  What would another friggen inch do to help someone get to a sideline?  Again, where do you come up with this 

why bother?

He has his head stuck in 1984. Oblivious to the changing roles of LBs in the last 5 years.  Let him rant.  When Lee produces we'll see if he admits his mistake

 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Iirc. Those guys got $70 mil. Mo wants 100.

Does he?

vernon was 5 years 85 with a higher guaranteed than Watt.  

[SenorGato]

5 hours ago, Savage69 said:

Check out how many top players the Pats let go and Revis was one of them..

I don't even know what this means or why it matters.

[Savage69]

10 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

I don't even know what this means or why it matters.

You posted the Jets let Revis go and now maybe Mo and I said the Pats have done that for years(letting good players go) and you couldn't figure out any connection?

I know how eMOtional  you get talking about your favorite player but a alley gato could have figured that one out..

[SenorGato]

25 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

You posted the Jets let Revis go and now maybe Mo and I said the Pats have done that for years(letting good players go) and you couldn't figure out any connection?

I know how eMOtional  you get talking about your favorite player but a alley gato could have figured that one out..

I still couldn't have less clue what your point is and I'm not sure you do either. Yes big guy, teams let players go. Beyond that there's no comparison here. 

I understand these posts are born from butthurt over an offseason of incompetence on your end THO. This damned Moo-ham-meds done tryn take the minimal glory of your  from the 70s and 80s and you take great personal offense to that. I got you bro, vent away!

[Savage69]

31 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

I still couldn't have less clue what your point is and I'm not sure you do either. Yes big guy, teams let players go. Beyond that there's no comparison here. 

 

The Pats have let All Pro and Pro Bowl players go like Seymour,Ty Law,Lawyer Milloy,Adam Vinatieri and this year traded DE Jones another Pro Bowler.. Your point was only the dumb Jets franchise does it..

[detectivekimble]

3 hours ago, Mainejet said:

BS. Complete and total BS. The 2005 team had John Abraham (multiple pro bowls), Shaun Ellis (2 tie pro bowler), Sione Pouha, Dewayne Robertson, and Bryan Thomas. PLEASE pull your head out of your A$$ before you start trying to debate me.

Mangini wasn't the coach during the 2005, you fool.  Vilma was good his first two years when he had a decent DL in front of him.  Thanks for proving my point, idiot.

[detectivekimble]

3 hours ago, Mainejet said:

BS. Complete and total BS. The 2005 team had John Abraham (multiple pro bowls), Shaun Ellis (2 tie pro bowler), Sione Pouha, Dewayne Robertson, and Bryan Thomas. PLEASE pull your head out of your A$$ before you start trying to debate me.

By the way, Dewayne Robertson wasn't good and he was especially awful as a NT in the 3-4.  Pouha wasn't good under Mangini, either.  He broke out under Rex.  Abraham was gone by the time Mangini was here and Bryan Thomas was a LB under Mangini.  The DL stunk under Mangini until Kris Jenkins was acquired in 2008.  In 2006 and 2007, they got thrown around like rag dolls.