Too Late for Jets About-Face on Fitz?

[Rangers9]

4 minutes ago, slats said:

QBs who are still free agents in July aren't worth "standard market for a starting QB." This is why Fitz is stubborn. He's got a very generous offer on the table, a three year deal that averages more than the best (alleged) offer he got anywhere else over the course of four months in free agency (one year, $7M from Denver). 

Fitz isn't in the standard market, he's in the Fitzpatrick market. The Jets are offering a very handsome sum for the Fitzpatrick market. If he doesn't like it, he doesn't have to sign, but the Jets would be foolish to alter the length or money given the current state of the Fitzpatrick market. 

Again he's a free agent which means what it says: free. You think it's a generous offer. He doesn't. 

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

Agreed, I dont think the drop off would be that bad at all.  Not sure I'm willing to say he'll be better than Fitz but maybe.  It's certainly possible.  But what I really dont get is, why people view starting Geno as waving the white flag but dont feel the same way about Fitz.   It's bizarre.  The dude has proven over and over again, he's not the guy to get your there but yet somehow, starting him isnt wasting the season?  It's weird.

Whats weird is people who think Geno Smith is going to go from being the worst starting QB in the NFL with a broken jaw by his own teammate due to his immaturity....to reliably producing a top 10-12 NFL offense in 2016.

Because something something "talent around him" and something something "fair chances".

That's baseless optimism at it's most nakedly obvious.  Geno has shown us nothing to indicate he has made that kind of leap of talent, skill, decision making and maturity in one off-season.

Doesn't mean he won't improve or that it's impossible he could be decent in 2016.....there is simply no evidence for it happening with any reliability.  i.e. it's a shot in the dark, i.e. it's taking a low-odds shot that likely won't pan out.  Even you know it, at least implicitly, because you're unwilling to say "Geno will do better than Fitz", because lets be honest here, we know the odds that Geno outproduces 2015 Fitz is near zero.  And not because of the schedule, lol.

It's the most funny portion of this debate, the "Fitz has proven..." part.  As if Geno hasn't proven anything at all his first three years to anyone, right?  Geno Smith has proven, thru this moment, thats he's the worst starting QB in the NFL.  Until he shows us something in a game and proves otherwise, of course.

Fitz on the other hand "proved" he could take this roster and help it win 10 games (help it, as he is a cog, a part), limit turnovers, produce scores and generally be a Better-than-Trent-Dilfer type guy who holds the job down and produces just enough to win more games than he loses.  

Yep, it's only one year.  But that one year is one year more than Geno Smith has shown us anything so far.  

Hence why the general consensus outside NY is that the Jets will of course resign Fitz at some point.  The "start Geno" opinion appears to be a VERY small minority outside of this place and a few select NY media heads.  

So we'll see, like I said, if the Org. has faith in Geno, this debate is moot......Fitz will be cast aside and Geno will start.  If anythign else happens, it says alot about how the Org. sees Geno, because there is NO rationale for Fitz at all, much less as a starter, if they like Geno. 

[JustInFudge]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Whats weird is people who think Geno Smith is going to go from being the worst starting QB in the NFL with a broken jaw by his own teammate due to his immaturity....to reliably producing a top 10-12 NFL offense in 2016.

Because something something "talent around him" and something something "fair chances".

That's baseless optimism at it's most nakedly obvious.  Geno has shown us nothing to indicate he has made that kind of leap of talent, skill, decision making and maturity in one off-season.

Doesn't mean he won't improve or that it's impossible he could be decent in 2016.....there is simply no evidence for it happening with any reliability.  i.e. it's a shot in the dark, i.e. it's taking a low-odds shot that likely won't pan out.  Even you know it, at least implicitly, because you're unwilling to say "Geno will do better than Fitz", because lets be honest here, we know the odds that Geno outproduces 2015 Fitz is near zero.  And not because of the schedule, lol.

It's the most funny portion of this debate, the "Fitz has proven..." part.  As if Geno hasn't proven anything at all his first three years to anyone, right?  Geno Smith has proven, thru this moment, thats he's the worst starting QB in the NFL.  Until he shows us something in a game and proves otherwise, of course.

Fitz on the other hand "proved" he could take this roster and help it win 10 games (help it, as he is a cog, a part), limit turnovers, produce scores and generally be a Better-than-Trent-Dilfer type guy who holds the job down and produces just enough to win more games than he loses.  

Yep, it's only one year.  But that one year is one year more than Geno Smith has shown us anything so far.  

Hence why the general consensus outside NY is that the Jets will of course resign Fitz at some point.  The "start Geno" opinion appears to be a VERY small minority outside of this place and a few select NY media heads.  

So we'll see, like I said, if the Org. has faith in Geno, this debate is moot......Fitz will be cast aside and Geno will start.  If anythign else happens, it says alot about how the Org. sees Geno, because there is NO rationale for Fitz at all, much less as a starter, if they like Geno. 

It took 11 years for Fitz to produce a top 10-12 offense and win more than 6 games because of something something "talent around him" and something something "fair chances".  So comparing the 2 is literally meaningless.

There is simply no evidence that Fitz will ever make the playoffs because he never has after 11 years in the league.  Yet it's waving the white flag if Geno starts but it's not if Fitz starts?  It literally makes zero sense.  It's baseless optimism at its most nakedly obvious. 

But have no fear.  Fitz is 100% going to be the starter.  I think it's wrong and stupid for many reason but its the Jets and they love to do wrong and stupid things. 

[Warfish]

15 minutes ago, JiF said:

It took 11 years for Fitz to produce a top 10-12 offense and win more than 6 games because of something something "talent around him" and something something "fair chances".  So comparing the 2 is literally meaningless.

Lol, it's only meaningless if you have an agenda to push.

However long it took, Fitz had a good productive year last year with a weaker roster than we have this year.  

Geno has never, ever had a good, productive year.  Not yet.

Quote

There is simply no evidence that Fitz will ever make the playoffs because he never has after 11 years in the league.

So we should play the guy who has never as yet been more than the worst starting QB in the NFL or the punchline to "which NFL QB lost his job after being beaten up by his own teammate" jokes, because he has proven.....what exactly in his three years in the league?  What is your Geno-support evidence, good sir?  

Quote

But have no fear.  Fitz is 100% going to be the starter.  I think it's wrong and stupid for many reason but its the Jets and they love to do wrong and stupid things. 

Whelp, if that's true, it says everything we need to know on how the professional talent evaluators and professional football coaches view your preferred candidate.

[JustInFudge]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Lol, it's only meaningless if you have an agenda to push.

However long it took, Fitz had a good productive year last year with a weaker roster than we have this year.  

Geno has never, ever had a good, productive year.  Not yet.

So we should play the guy who has never as yet been more than the worst starting QB in the NFL or the punchline to "which NFL QB lost his job after being beaten up by his own teammate" jokes, because he has proven.....what exactly in his three years in the league?  What is your Geno-support evidence, good sir?  

Whelp, if that's true, it says everything we need to know on how the professional talent evaluators and professional football coaches view your preferred candidate.

For some reason you love to bring up the same talking points over again that I've explained 100 times.  It's getting a little old and its why I typically dont respond to you.  

There is no agenda, honey.  IMO Fitz does nothing for the Jets.  IMO Geno maybe does.  That's it.  Pretty simple. 

But dont worry, the super smart Jets with all those professionals who never get anything wrong dont agree with me, so Fitz is going to start.  All good in the hood.

 

[Warfish]

 

29 minutes ago, JiF said:

IMO Fitz does nothing for the Jets.  IMO Geno maybe does.  That's it.  Pretty simple. 

Fitz gives the Jets a chance to be competative and develop their young QB's patiently.  Geno most likely does not.  Pretty simple indeed. 

29 minutes ago, JiF said:

But dont worry, the super smart Jets with all those professionals who never get anything wrong dont agree with me, so Fitz is going to start.  All good in the hood.

Sucks to potentially be wrong on something, right?  So you'll just replace reality, where the professionals who work with Geno every day choose not to go with him,and you'll instead replace that reality with your own massive self-absorbed ego, where you're smarter and more knowledgeable than Macc & Bowles.

How can we get a visionary brilliant mind such as yours as our GM?  We'd be all aces then.

 

[EM31]

On 7/3/2016 at 11:05 AM, slats said:

Because unlike free agents who are still unsigned while hosting their Independence Day barbecues, there was actually a market for Revis on the first day of free agency. 

Also -fun fact!- Revis' salary drops to $10M in the last two years of his deal. 

And your talking points have not been repetitive beyond all reason?

[EM31]

Everything that was going to be said on this topic has already been said and then it has been repeated endlessly for the last 2-3 months.

[EM31]

Geno represents an Irish Sweepstakes ticket.  A shot at untold riches. As such he gives some of the posters on this board hope for an upside that both age and a longer track record deny to Ryan Fitzpatrick.

[Warfish]

49 minutes ago, EM31 said:

Everything that was going to be said on this topic has already been said and then it has been repeated endlessly for the last 2-3 months.

How long till the first pre-season game?  Because we almost assuredly now have that long for it to be bashed about still to come.

[EM31]

10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

How long till the first pre-season game?  Because we almost assuredly now have that long for it to be bashed about still to come.

I think the narrative changes if he signs.  I think that a dozen or so posters will be seriously butt hurt if that happens but in any event the narrative changes.

[Big Blocker]

I think there's definitely something to the angle of evaluating Bowles with the O he wants, not the one he's forced to accept.  To be clear I was mostly pleased with Bowles as a rookie HC.  Sure he had some mistakes, and they were concerning.   But since the overall performance I thought was good, the question becomes whether he shows improvement in year two.  (I also happen to like him in the role - a calm, thoughtful presence is such a relief after the clown years with Ryan.  The players also seem to like him and want to play for him.)

Overall it becomes more difficult to assess an HC and the CS when the FO is not giving them the players they need to approach the season the way they want to.  Sure you can still look at this or that decision and question it irrespective of the personnel issue.  But it means far more if the CS has their players, the ones they say they can compete with, and then they don't.  Compared to not having the players, giving them a sort of built in excuse.  And the thing is that the excuse has merit.

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

That 2 year NEP deal was pre-set to cut him after year one. They never ever considered paying Revis that 20 mil. 

Me: the sky is blue.

You: no way, the sky is NOT green. 

[ljr]

4 hours ago, EM31 said:

Geno represents an Irish Sweepstakes ticket.  A shot at untold riches. As such he gives some of the posters on this board hope for an upside that both age and a longer track record deny to Ryan Fitzpatrick.

The ticket is covered in dog$h*t though

[ljr]

3 hours ago, Big Blocker said:

I think there's definitely something to the angle of evaluating Bowles with the O he wants, not the one he's forced to accept.  To be clear I was mostly pleased with Bowles as a rookie HC.  Sure he had some mistakes, and they were concerning.   But since the overall performance I thought was good, the question becomes whether he shows improvement in year two.  (I also happen to like him in the role - a calm, thoughtful presence is such a relief after the clown years with Ryan.  The players also seem to like him and want to play for him.)

Overall it becomes more difficult to assess an HC and the CS when the FO is not giving them the players they need to approach the season the way they want to.  Sure you can still look at this or that decision and question it irrespective of the personnel issue.  But it means far more if the CS has their players, the ones they say they can compete with, and then they don't.  Compared to not having the players, giving them a sort of built in excuse.  And the thing is that the excuse has merit.

Who / where do you think the FO has shortchanged Bowles with not getting him a player?

[JustInFudge]

17 hours ago, Warfish said:

 

Fitz gives the Jets a chance to be competative and develop their young QB's patiently.  Geno most likely does not.  Pretty simple indeed. 

Sucks to potentially be wrong on something, right?  So you'll just replace reality, where the professionals who work with Geno every day choose not to go with him,and you'll instead replace that reality with your own massive self-absorbed ego, where you're smarter and more knowledgeable than Macc & Bowles.

How can we get a visionary brilliant mind such as yours as our GM?  We'd be all aces then.

 

Hey, guess what, I disagree with you!!!!  Crazy, right?  People dont agree on everything all the time.

You're a strange dude who takes himself way too seriously.  I've noticed you get really bitchy, defensive and personal when someone disagrees with your infinite wisdom.  Not sure why and it's all good. To each his own.  I've been wrong plenty and will openly admit when I'm wrong.  I dont fear it.  Me thinks your projecting here but it's cool.  

You chose to respond to me when I wasnt talking to you.  You chose to rehash a very redundant boring conversation.  I think you should stop doing that so your feelings dont get hurt when we disagree. 

 

[Rangers9]

Anyways if Fitz does sign Mac's 3 year offer and he has a good year and maybe we make the playoffs where does it leave him contract and career wise. And that's the question he's asking. It locks him into two more seasons at backup money. Even if he has a good year and there's a market for his services at standard starter money. Not 6 mil a season. Plus he might have to take a back seat to Hack. Would the Jets be nice guys and let him out of the deal or even sweeten it. Well he just got off of a 2 year backup deal he signed with Houston for about 3.25 per season and he ended up starting 28 games and winning 16 of them. In both instances on teams the previous year with losing records. Did Houston or the Jets compensate him for outplaying the contract and starting all those games while being paid to be a backup. The answer is NO once you sign a deal that's it! So this is why he doesn't want to sign that contract the way it's structured. He's willing to take a chance and lose money because he has confidence in himself. So the obvious compromise is a one year contract. They can negotiate the amount.  I don't think Fitz will tie himself up or wants to be Mac's insurance policy. I don't blame him.

 

 

[Mike135]

4 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Anyways if Fitz does sign Mac's 3 year offer and he has a good year and maybe we make the playoffs where does it leave him contract and career wise. And that's the question he's asking. It locks him into two more seasons at backup money. Even if he has a good year and there's a market for his services at standard starter money. Not 6 mil a season. Plus he might have to take a back seat to Hack. Would the Jets be nice guys and let him out of the deal or even sweeten it. Well he just got off of a 2 year backup deal he signed with Houston for about 3.25 per season and he ended up starting 28 games and winning 16 of them. In both instances on teams the previous year with losing records. Did Houston or the Jets compensate him for outplaying the contract and starting all those games while being paid to be a backup. The answer is NO once you sign a deal  that's it. So this is why he doesn't want to sign that contract the way it's structured. He's willing to take a chance and lose money because he has confidence in himself. So the obvious compromise is a one year contract. They can negotiate the amount.  I don't think Fitz will tie himself up or wants to be Mac's insurance policy. I don't blame him.

 

 

Where would it leave Fitz in 2017 and 2018?  In a better spot than he finds himself now in 2016.  Unemployed with no team wanting him at all.

The Jets are willing to pay him like double what any other team would for 2016.  Macc is a dumb@ss for doing so, but at least with this deal it get Fitz in '17 n '18 for what Fitz is good for... being a backup.  Then for whatever reason if Fitz does start in '17 or '18, supposedly he can earn more.

Fitz may really be insane for not accepting this deal.  I know Macc is for offering it.

[Warfish]

12 minutes ago, JiF said:

Hey, guess what, I disagree with you!!!!  Crazy, right?  People dont agree on everything all the time.

You're a strange dude who takes himself way too seriously.  I've noticed you get really bitchy, defensive and personal when someone disagrees with your infinite wisdom.  Not sure why and it's all good. To each his own.  I've been wrong plenty and will openly admit when I'm wrong.  I dont fear it.  Me thinks your projecting here but it's cool.  

You chose to respond to me when I wasnt talking to you.  You chose to rehash a very redundant boring conversation.  I think you should stop doing that so your feelings dont get hurt when we disagree. 

 

Save the off-topic whining, if you please.  If you want to only respond to one person, instead of the whole board, go PM them.  This is a message board, we're here to talk football and what we say is up for comment by everyone else as they see fit.  

So stick to the topic, eh?

If the Organization agrees with your opinion, the Fitz offer would be rescinded, and we'd move forward with Geno.  There is no other logical choice if that were the case.    If we do that (and there is an argument we ARE doing that, albeit slowly and passively instead of directly), it says alot.  If we don't, that too says alot.

At this point, you're not disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with the Jets Organization, who still say (at least) they want Fitz, and still have a (reported) 12/6/6 offer on the street to him, despite Geno being here, in-place and effectively free.

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Save the off-topic whining, if you please.  If you want to only respond to one person, instead of the whole board, go PM them.  This is a message board, we're here to talk football and what we say is up for comment by everyone else as they see fit.  

So stick to the topic, eh?

If the Organization agrees with your opinion, the Fitz offer would be rescinded, and we'd move forward with Geno.  There is no other logical choice if that were the case.    If we do that (and there is an argument we ARE doing that, albeit slowly and passively instead of directly), it says alot.  If we don't, that too says alot.

At this point, you're not disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with the Jets Organization, who still say (at least) they want Fitz, and still have a (reported) 12/6/6 offer on the street to him, despite Geno being here, in-place and effectively free.

[Rangers9]

20 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Where would it leave Fitz in 2017 and 2018?  In a better spot than he finds himself now in 2016.  Unemployed with no team wanting him at all.

The Jets are willing to pay him like double what any other team would for 2016.  Macc is a dumb@ss for doing so, but at least with this deal it get Fitz in '17 n '18 for what Fitz is good for... being a backup.  Then for whatever reason if Fitz does start in '17 or '18, supposedly he can earn more.

Fitz may really be insane for not accepting this deal.  I know Macc is for offering it.

I'm saying the Jets would save money by signing Fitz to a one year deal. It could be for 8 million or more with maybe with a couple of attainable incentives. I guarantee you if he sucks in 2016 Geno gets named the starter very quickly. I mean you guys are saying that 2015 was an anomaly. That there is no way he could ever repeat a good season and btw it was all on other players. If you looked closely Marshall and Decker threw those passes and then caught them. All Fitz did was get in the way. 

[Mike135]

4 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I'm saying the Jets would save money by signing Fitz to a one year deal. It could be for 8 million or more with maybe with a couple of attainable incentives. I guarantee you if he sucks in 2016 Geno gets named the starter very quickly. I mean you guys are saying that 2016 was an anomaly. That there is no way he could ever repeat a good season and btw it was all on other players. If you looked closely Marshall and Decker threw those passes and then caught them. All Fitz did was get in the way. 

He's not worth 8mil on a one year deal.  The value of the three year doesn't come from 2016 as the starter.  It comes from being a quality backup in the following two years.

[Rangers9]

2 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

He's not worth 8mil on a one year deal.  The value of the three year doesn't come from 2016 as the starter.  It comes from being a quality backup in the following two years.

Then why is he worth 24 million for 3 years with 12 up front. They don't give you 12 mil to be the backup in 2016. Again if they really want him to start in 2016 (and that's the way it seems) then they can save money with a one year contract. And it could be for the average or 8 mil. Which I'm not sure he would accept. The reason is obvious. Mac doesn't have faith in his supposed future maybe franchise Qb and wants to keep Fitz as an insurance policy. So if Fitz is as bad as you claim he'll suck in 2016, Geno will be named the starter in Sept. and after 2016 Fitz is gone. The Jets save 7 million bucks. 

[Mike135]

7 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Then why is he worth 24 million for 3 years with 12 up front. They don't give you 12 mil to be the backup in 2016. Again if they really want him to start in 2016 (and that's the way it seems) then they can save money with a one year contract. And it could be for the average or 8 mil. Which I'm not sure he would accept. The reason is obvious. Mac doesn't have faith in his supposed future maybe franchise Qb and wants to keep Fitz as an insurance policy. So if Fitz is as bad as you claim he'll suck in 2016, Geno will be named the starter in Sept. and after 2016 Fitz is gone. The Jets save 7 million bucks. 

If Fitz comes back, Geno is all but gone.  No way will Macc waste all that money on a guy to not have him start the majority of the season.  Basically if Fitz returns his season, Geno is gone in 2017 because he won't have a chance to earn a new deal.

Petty and Hack don't look especially promising at the moment.  So if Macc is gonna toss aside Geno, he needs Fitz to be around for years.

Fitz as a one year QB is useless as he can't be better than mediocre anyway.  There is value though as a 3 year mediocre veteran to bridge the gap to someone better.

[Rangers9]

3 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

If Fitz comes back, Geno is all but gone.  No way will Macc waste all that money on a guy to not have him start the majority of the season.  Basically if Fitz returns his season, Geno is gone in 2017 because he won't have a chance to earn a new deal.

Petty and Hack don't look especially promising at the moment.  So if Macc is gonna toss aside Geno, he needs Fitz to be around for years.

Fitz as a one year QB is useless as he can't be better than mediocre anyway.  There is value though as a 3 year mediocre veteran to bridge the gap to someone better.

I don't understand what you're saying. You first say that Fitz is pretty worthless and can't be good in 2016. And that all of his success was because of other players. And that Geno is a better Qb. I guarantee you Bowles will bench Fitz if he stinks the joint up (like you say he will). Bowles wants to win. If Geno starts and plays well he has a job either here or somewhere else in 2017. It resurrects his career. 

[Mike135]

1 minute ago, Rangers9 said:

I don't understand what you're saying. You first say that Fitz is pretty worthless and can't be good in 2016. And that all of his success was because of other players. And that Geno is a better Qb. I guarantee you Bowles will bench Fitz if he stinks the joint up (like you say he will). Bowles wants to win. If Geno starts and plays well he has a job either here or somewhere else in 2017. It resurrects his career. 

It'll be a repeat of last year.  In that Bowles will play it safe and stay with Fitz.  Especially because they just spent big money on the guy.  

If Macc spends big on Fitz and he gets benched early, Macc is screwed.  Probably won't happen.  Fitz is mediocre enough to keep the gig for a while even as the losses rack up.

[Rangers9]

Just now, Mike135 said:

It'll be a repeat of last year.  In that Bowles will play it safe and stay with Fitz.  Especially because they just spent big money on the guy.  

If Macc spends big on Fitz and he gets benched early, Macc is screwed.  Probably won't happen.  Fitz is mediocre enough to keep the gig for a while even as the losses rack up.

There is no way if Fitz is bad he stays the starter under Bowles. And if Fitz is as terrible as all of you say he is then why do you want to keep him for 3 years then. They can sign another vet Qb next season. And what do you mean by a repeat of last season. Geno took himself out of the Qb competition as I remember. Bowles kept Fitz because he played well and the team won games. He'll do the same thing if he thinks that Geno gives the team our best chance to win. I personally would be all for benching Fitz if he sucks. I just don't think he will suck. 

[Big Blocker]

14 hours ago, ljr said:

Who / where do you think the FO has shortchanged Bowles with not getting him a player?

Fitzpatrick, of course.

[Mike135]

2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

There is no way if Fitz is bad he stays the starter under Bowles. And if Fitz is as terrible as all of you say he is then why do you want to keep him for 3 years then. They can sign another vet Qb next season. And what do you mean by a repeat of last season. Geno took himself out of the Qb competition as I remember. Bowles kept Fitz because he played well and the team won games. He'll do the same thing if he thinks that Geno gives the team our best chance to win. I personally would be all for benching Fitz if he sucks. I just don't think he will suck. 

Three different classifications:

1. Good
2. Mediocre 
3. Bad

We're saying Fitz is mediocre.  Not good.  Not bad/terrible.  Just mediocre.  Aka Fitz.  The definition of mediocre could include a picture of Fitz.

He's a waste as a starter.  But valuable as a backup if your GM and coach aren't naive enough to fall for the BS Fitz has used to ripoff other teams.  

We may have a dumb GM/coach combo.  Casserly is trying to save 'em.

[Big Blocker]

11 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

It'll be a repeat of last year.  In that Bowles will play it safe and stay with Fitz.  Especially because they just spent big money on the guy.  

If Macc spends big on Fitz and he gets benched early, Macc is screwed.  Probably won't happen.  Fitz is mediocre enough to keep the gig for a while even as the losses rack up.

This kind of post is damaging to what would hopefully be a higher level of discourse if this kind of post was not posted here.  It is counter-factual to say that Bowles went with Fitzpatrick last year because he was playing it safe.  He was playing like any other HC in the league would play it when the worst Qb in the league the previous two seasons took himself out of any reasonable prospect to start the season, then the HC watched the vet Qb on the roster take over and lead the team with competence.  When Smith got a chance to play in the Oakland game, he looked no better than he did the previous year. When the vet Qb returned (enough) from injury, he got his job back, and went on to the best season a Jet Qb has had in some time.

I guess in one sense Bowles played it safe if the concern was he would look like an idiot for taking a different approach than the one he did take.

But that's not normally what people mean when they criticize someone for playing it safe. 

[Mike135]

1 minute ago, Big Blocker said:

This kind of post is damaging to what would hopefully be a higher level of discourse if this kind of post was not posted here.  It is counter-factual to say that Bowles went with Fitzpatrick last year because he was playing it safe.  He was playing like any other HC in the league would play it when the worst Qb in the league the previous two seasons took himself out of any reasonable prospect to start the season, then the HC watched the vet Qb on the roster take over and lead the team with competence.  When Smith got a chance to play in the Oakland game, he looked no better than he did the previous year. When the vet Qb returned (enough) from injury, he got his job back, and went on to the best season a Jet Qb has had in some time.

I guess in one sense Bowles played it safe if the concern was he would look like an idiot for taking a different approach than the one he did take.

But that's not normally what people mean when they criticize someone for playing it safe. 

A very safe argument.

[Big Blocker]

1 minute ago, Mike135 said:

A very safe argument.

I accept your surrender.  Now try to build on it for a better peace for all.

[Mike135]

3 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

I accept your surrender.  Now try to build on it for a better peace for all.

 

I'll never surrender.  Bowles was an idiot for not playing Geno last year for a while.  He'll make it worse this year if Macc also makes a big mistake (by bringing Fitz back).  

Just like you have to make allowances for young QBs messing up, gotta do the same for coaches.  GMs not so much.  But if Fitz is re-signed, it will be the beginning of the end for Macc n Bowles.

[Rangers9]

7 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Three different classifications:

1. Good
2. Mediocre 
3. Bad

We're saying Fitz is mediocre.  Not good.  Not bad/terrible.  Just mediocre.  Aka Fitz.  The definition of mediocre could include a picture of Fitz.

He's a waste as a starter.  But valuable as a backup if your GM and coach aren't naive enough to fall for the BS Fitz has used to ripoff other teams.  

We may have a dumb GM/coach combo.  Casserly is trying to save 'em.

Fitz isn't going to sign to be a backup.So why pay a backup then 24 mil when you can get somebody much cheaper. I don't think if Mac stays on this Fitz will sign it. i think he's good not mediocre. If the guy believes in himself what's wrong with that. I just love guys who root against a player and because they hate him want him to sign a bad deal. 

[Mike135]

1 minute ago, Rangers9 said:

Fitz isn't going to sign to be a backup.So why pay a backup then 24 mil when you can get somebody much cheaper. I don't think if Mac stays on this Fitz will sign it. i think he's good not mediocre. If the guy believes in himself what's wrong with that. I just love guys who root against a player and because they hate him want him to sign a bad deal. 

Nothing wrong with a guy believing in himself.  There's something wrong with his boss paying for it if he sucks.  Especially if this has all played out before recently.  Other GMs have been fooled into paying for Fitz.  Macc will have no excuses if he does the same.