Too Late for Jets About-Face on Fitz?

[EM31]

There is an old saw about Cy Young which essentially states that yes, while he does indeed have the most victories of any pitcher in history, he also has the most losses in history too and that with how today's game is played, the latter record is truly the one which will never be broken.

OK, so Geno got the starting gig on a team that was completely bereft of any other options at QB and with a head coach who knew he was on the way out and to some degree was sticking it to management before he did.  It is extremely rare if not totally unique situation to have a starting QB play that badly for that long and not lose his job.  I for one have never seen that happen either here in NY or anywhere else for that matter.  With that said I think that like Cy Young and his record, it is reasonable to make the case that Geno Smith is the worst starting QB in the history of the NFL to start for two years.

The worst to ever play the game as a starter at this level.

And so yes, by definition there is plenty of upside right there with Geno Smith.

Ryan Fitzpatrick is very ordinary but in comparison to Geno Smith very ordinary is like a limited edition Ferrari signed by Enzo Ferrari himself from beyond the grave.

But with that said we are not a winning team with either of them this year so why not take a shot at the #1 overall pick.

[Rangers9]

7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Lol, are you trying to convince others or yourself?  The expected learning curve is 12 games?  

Youre just making shlt up as you go along.  What's your next ridiculous theory on why Geno shouldn't get a chance?

Geno got his chances and it would be ridiculous if he starts because the team doesn't sign Fitz. It's telling the fans you're not willing to go with your BAP. I didn't make up the 12 start figure I read it somewhere but couldn't find it after googling it. I'll try again. But if you don't say that 29 is a fair sample size to show you can play the position. What can I say. How many does he get. And he has to have perfect teammates and coaches or it's not his fault. 

[Warfish]

16 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Hmm, 11th ranked defense and Geno wins 8.

With the 31st ranked Passing Offense and 29th ranked scoring offense, the portion Geno was primarily responsible for as QB.  Geno was also amongst the worst in the NFL in turnovers.

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6th ranked defense and Geno wins 3

With the 32nd ranked Passing Offense and 28th ranked scoring offense, the portion Geno was primarily responsible for as QB.

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4th ranked defense and Fitz wins 10.

With the 13th ranked Passing Offense and 11th ranked Scoring offense, the portion Fitz was primarily responsible for as QB.

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And there is no way you or anyone else should try and tell people that they had the same team outside of Marshall in 2013.

It's the facts.  Even a cursory look at the two years rosters proves it.  Marshall in place of Harvin is the only material difference on the offense 2014 vs 2015, other than Fitz in place of Geno.  It's an important difference, admittedly, but the "worst roster in history" hyperbole is pure spin.  

Geno had talent around him in 2014 and put up the 32nd ranked passing offense and 28th ranked scoring offense in the process of being benched for Mike "Dogkiller" Vick.

This is why people harp 2013 and on "won 8" as a rookie and make silly "worst roster ever" comments, because they know in 2014 he only won 3, and go benched for poor play, with a roster materially similar in talent, sans Marshall, to the one Fitz played with this year.  

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You really need to check your facts fish

If you say so.  Personally you analytical and critical thinking skills have never impressed me.  

[Powpow]

On June 27, 2016 at 11:36 AM, JiF said:

I'd rather see Geno Smith, Bryce Petty and Christian Hackenberg than any of those bums.  Just like Fitzpatrick, they do absolutely nothing to advance the franchise.  Except maybe Glennon and that's not going to happen. 

So yeah, ride or die with who you've got and call it day.  Fitz and bums like this are just a huge waste of everyone's time. 

Villain would take offense. I'd rather see any of those bums rather than the biggest bum on our roster who pretends to be a QB.

[Powpow]

On June 27, 2016 at 1:04 PM, joewilly12 said:

Fitz who? Move on my prediction we are the sleeper team in the AFC with Geno Smith at QB. 

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[EM31]

Among a bucket load of disingenuous arguments from some on here I find the one about starting him before he was ready to be one of the most irritating.  The very same group of people who argued loudly that you don't draft a QB that high and then sit him on the bench... that having a rookie hold a clipboard was overrated and not consistent with the new NFL... well those same people are now claiming that he was thrown to the wolves and put into games before he was ready.

No sh1t Sherlocks.

29 games is more time than almost anyone ever gets.  Or at least it is more time than anyone is permitted to play that badly.

[drdetroit]

19 hours ago, Warfish said:

Talk about hyperbole.  "Worst ever assembled", lol.  Guess you may as well double down on the fantasy-hype.

I like how you say "he won 8" despite being completely carried by a top 10 Defense, while producing the 29th ranked scoring offense that year and being amongst the worst in the league in turnovers.  Looks like Rex Ryan's boys won most of those 8.

I also like how you leave out that he won 3 games (while being benched) with almost the same team Fitz had, outside Marshall.

Well, your Geno fantasy will be proven or disproven this year, then we can both stfu about it, eh?  

Either your man will win 11 games and drive us to the playoffs via his play and leadership, or he won't.

So enjoy the fantasy while it lasts.  Because if we're sitting at 2-6 or worse with no hope ahead of us, I most certainly hope I won't have to listen to this fantasy any longer.

Dude Geno is not anywhere near as bad as you make him out to be

[EM31]

Just now, drdetroit said:

Dude Geno is not anywhere near as bad as you make him out to be

Honestly i do not know what measures you are using.  He was rated something 40th and 38th best starting QBs in the league for those with enough starts to qualify.  That says that not only was he the very worst starting QB but he was also worse than 8-10 of the backups who had enough starts to be included in the pool.  So exactly how much better is he again?

[Mainejet]

It's NEVER too late for the Jets to sit down with Ryan Fitzpatrick and work out a deal suitable for both sides. Both parties need each other.

[Warfish]

29 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Dude Geno is not anywhere near as bad as you make him out to be

Geno Smith was the worst QB in the NFL his two years as a starter thus far.

Then he was the most embarrassing QB in the NFL, having his jaw broken by his own guy.

Till he does something new, yes, he really is/was that bad.  

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

Fitz had 105 starts. You don't get 105 starts if you're terrible. Just look over his career objectively if that's at all possible. But I doubt that. And also take a look at the game film on week 17. No choking but not a good performance. And you can say that for the entire team. If some other players had stepped up we might have won. If he'd have stepped up the same thing. 

Oh, he's terrible.  It took Ryan Fitzpatrick 6 years in the league to finally throw more TD's than INT's.  Over a 3 year period as starter in Buffalo, he led the league in turnovers. Luckily, he landed with a Franchise stupid enough to sign him as a starter in a league desperate for QB's.  That doesn't make him good, it makes him better than JP Losman and Trent Edwards.

 

 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Powpow said:

Villain would take offense. I'd rather see any of those bums rather than the biggest bum on our roster who pretends to be a QB.

Why?  I said Glennon was the only intriguing name, it just wont happen. haha

Pretend QB's suck, no doubt.  Fitz was a pretend QB for 10 years until he wasnt. 

[EM31]

5 minutes ago, JiF said:

Why?  I said Glennon was the only intriguing name, it just wont happen. haha

Pretend QB's suck, no doubt.  Fitz was a pretend QB for 10 years until he wasnt. 

Regardless of how well he did once he got his first big contract Ryan Fitzpatrick was good enough in his rookie deal to have Buffalo give him that big payday.

Geno on the other hand was worse than any other starter in the league and worse than 8-10 of the backups in this league in BOTH of his first two years.

Geno's record of "suck" is unblemished.

[JustInFudge]

9 minutes ago, EM31 said:

Regardless of how well he did once he got his first big contract Ryan Fitzpatrick was good enough in his rookie deal to have Buffalo give him that big payday.

Geno on the other hand was worse than any other starter in the league and worse than 8-10 of the backups in this league in BOTH of his first two years.

Geno's record of "suck" is unblemished.

Fitz sucked for 10 years.  Geno sucked for 2.  10 is more than 2. 

[Mike135]

9 minutes ago, JiF said:

Fitz sucked for 10 years.  Geno sucked for 2.  10 is more than 2. 

You might be on to something here.  For months I've been trying to get what seems like relatively simple points across to the anti-Geno/pro-Fitz crowd, but perhaps I was aiming too high.

Your explanation breaks things down to the most simple of terms.  Perhaps that's what's needed.

However I know one or two of 'em will somehow say 2 > 10.

[Warfish]

12 minutes ago, JiF said:

Fitz was an average journeyman NFL QB for 10 years.  He was very good for one year, last year.

Geno sucked for 2.  He got his face broke in by his own LB in a 3rd.  He has never been very good.  Yet.

Fixed that for you.

[Big Blocker]

4 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

and if we go 1-3 with Fitzpatrick fans will not ? 

No, because then the blame is on Fitz.

Btw when was the last time an organization had a starting qb that threw 30 or more td's that they did not bring back as the starter next year?  THAT is the point the FO will be facing if they go with Smith and the losing returns.

Ftr, I love talking Jets football in the off season more than most, I think it fair to say.  But I am tiring of the current situation and the overall feel of this off season.  That in turn makes me less caring about these kinds of discussions.  Part of it is frustration which in turn a big part of is not knowing what is really going on between the FO and Fitz.  (That applies as well to Wilk's situation.)  I'm near the point of not wanting to talk about it until the situation breaks one way or another.

Not there yet, but getting there.

[EM31]

16 minutes ago, JiF said:

Fitz sucked for 10 years.  Geno sucked for 2.  10 is more than 2. 

The problem is that he did not suck for 10.

Your other problem is that there are degrees of suck and Geno is at the very bottom of the deepest elevator shaft on the planet in terms of his level of suck.

Other than parts one and two of your two part theory you are doing just fine.  Did you also predict that Mitt Romney and John McCain respectively would win the presidency?

[Mike135]

21 minutes ago, JiF said:

Fitz sucked for 10 years.  Geno sucked for 2.  10 is more than 2. 

 

12 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

You might be on to something here.  For months I've been trying to get what seems like relatively simple points across to the anti-Geno/pro-Fitz crowd, but perhaps I was aiming too high.

Your explanation breaks things down to the most simple of terms.  Perhaps that's what's needed.

However I know one or two of 'em will somehow say 2 > 10.

 

6 minutes ago, EM31 said:

Your other problem is that there are degrees of suck and Geno is at the very bottom of the deepest elevator shaft on the planet in terms of his level of suck.

Ha, I knew it!

I think that's basically saying 2 > 10.

[JustInFudge]

9 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

You might be on to something here.  For months I've been trying to get what seems like relatively simple points across to the anti-Geno/pro-Fitz crowd, but perhaps I was aiming too high.

Your explanation breaks things down to the most simple of terms.  Perhaps that's what's needed.

However I know one or two of 'em will somehow say 2 > 10.

To be fair, I'm not pro-Geno or anti-Fitz.  I'm pro-Jets.  And IMO, the best thing for the Jets is to move on from Fitz and see what they've got in Geno.  

Geno could very well be a disaster but I think in the long run, finding that out for fact is the best thing for the Jets because it's either, we find a QB in Geno or we are in the Watson sweepstakes next draft.  It's a win/win. 

 

3 minutes ago, EM31 said:

The problem is that he did not suck for 10.

Your other problem is that there are degrees of suck and Geno is at the very bottom of the deepest elevator shaft on the planet in terms of his level of suck.

Other than parts one and two of your two part theory you are doing just fine.

I think leading the league in turnovers over a 3 year stretch after 7 years in the league is pretty strong degree of suck.

 

[Mike135]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

To be fair, I'm not pro-Geno or anti-Fitz.  I'm pro-Jets.  And IMO, the best thing for the Jets is to move on from Fitz and see what they've got in Geno.  

Geno could very well be a disaster but I think in the long run, finding that out for fact is the best thing for the Jets because it's either, we find a QB in Geno or we are in the Watson sweepstakes next draft.  It's a win/win. 

I may be slightly higher on Geno than you, but pretty much the same view.  Even if Geno blows, it's better than any realistic Fitz outcome.

[JustInFudge]

Just now, Mike135 said:

I may be slightly higher on Geno than you, but pretty much the same view.  Even if Geno blows, it's better than any realistic Fitz outcome.

I certainly havent written him off.  I think he has the talent to turn it around under the right circumstances and I feel great about his supporting cast from the players to coaches. But I've also seen what makes people sour on Geno.  My whole thing is, let's see how he does in a much more conducive environment because Fitz does absolutely nothing for this team.  That said, it would be great to see Petty or Hack win the job...I just dont think that's realistic. 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Geno got his chances and it would be ridiculous if he starts because the team doesn't sign Fitz. It's telling the fans you're not willing to go with your BAP. I didn't make up the 12 start figure I read it somewhere but couldn't find it after googling it. I'll try again. But if you don't say that 29 is a fair sample size to show you can play the position. What can I say. How many does he get. And he has to have perfect teammates and coaches or it's not his fault. 

No one, anywhere actually believes that 12 games is all it takes to be a NFL QB. 

Sorry, that's as wrong as it gets.

And no, I don't see how any number based on less that 2 full seasons is enough to make a definitive read of what a QB will or won't be.  Especially when one of those season is the 2014 roster.

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

With the 31st ranked Passing Offense and 29th ranked scoring offense, the portion Geno was primarily responsible for as QB.  Geno was also amongst the worst in the NFL in turnovers.

With the 32nd ranked Passing Offense and 28th ranked scoring offense, the portion Geno was primarily responsible for as QB.

With the 13th ranked Passing Offense and 11th ranked Scoring offense, the portion Fitz was primarily responsible for as QB.

It's the facts.  Even a cursory look at the two years rosters proves it.  Marshall in place of Harvin is the only material difference on the offense 2014 vs 2015, other than Fitz in place of Geno.  It's an important difference, admittedly, but the "worst roster in history" hyperbole is pure spin.  

Geno had talent around him in 2014 and put up the 32nd ranked passing offense and 28th ranked scoring offense in the process of being benched for Mike "Dogkiller" Vick.

This is why people harp 2013 and on "won 8" as a rookie and make silly "worst roster ever" comments, because they know in 2014 he only won 3, and go benched for poor play, with a roster materially similar in talent, sans Marshall, to the one Fitz played with this year.  

If you say so.  Personally you analytical and critical thinking skills have never impressed me.  

Dude you're flailing.  Make up your mind.  You credit the 11th ranked defense for Geno's wins.  You brought it up.  After pointing out to you that Fitz had the 4th ranked D you spent a day pulling up more dumb numbers to try and prove something.  What, who knows.  Get your foot out of you ass and move on Fitz fan boy.  Who gives a damn that Vick was involved with dog fighting?  Why that comment? Explain the significance?  You and others screamed for Geno to be benched, blamed Rex for not doing it.  He was benched, came back and played 1000 times better and now the benching is used against him?  A second year QB benched?  OMG, really?  

Im harping on 8 because of the clueless who think Fitz is God for winning 10.  As an 11 year vet on a talented team.  Then drudge up pointless stats to erase Geno's 8 wins.  Exactly as you did.  So not it has nothing to do with the next season where your all to happy to blame him for winning only 3 as you spin from one line of thought to another without any real rhyme or reason. 

And yes I say so, don't be a dick.  I dont need your permission to have an opinion or your half assed rating my critical thinking skills.  

 

[Mike135]

26 minutes ago, JiF said:

I certainly havent written him off.  I think he has the talent to turn it around under the right circumstances and I feel great about his supporting cast from the players to coaches. But I've also seen what makes people sour on Geno.  My whole thing is, let's see how he does in a much more conducive environment because Fitz does absolutely nothing for this team.  That said, it would be great to see Petty or Hack win the job...I just dont think that's realistic. 

Yeah, Petty or Hack would be the dream options.  Though it's looking like those two won't even be able to fill the backup role this season.

Definitely a sad state of affairs.  But let's cut our losses and not make matters worse by paying big for Fitz.

Start Geno, sign some other vet cheaply to be backup and protect Petty n Hack, and see what happens.  Either Geno steps up, or 2017 is for Petty, Hack or (fill in the blank rookie/FA).

[Rangers9]

41 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

No one, anywhere actually believes that 12 games is all it takes to be a NFL QB. 

Sorry, that's as wrong as it gets.

And no, I don't see how any number based on less that 2 full seasons is enough to make a definitive read of what a QB will or won't be.  Especially when one of those season is the 2014 roster.

The bottom line is that you don't take chances or base your season around a Qb who has been given a fair chance to start and has played poorly. And 2016 with our talent is not a rebuilding year or a try out season to see how Geno does. I'll take what worked not what didn't work. 

[Mike135]

Luck has been extended through 2021.  Yet we can't get any closure on the Ryan Fitzpatrick situation.

Damn it Macc, get 'er done!  July 4th weekend would be even more enjoyable with this BS over.

[Jetsplayer21]

5 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

If Fitz returns and is terrible (which is what you want) then no backlash of fans against the org because we know they signed the BAP.Nobody is saying the guy has a permanent life time job either. And if he plays poorly next man up is Geno. So imo most of what you call Fitz fans don't love Fitz. They just think it's a no-brainer that based on last season he gives us our best chance to win in 2016. And winning now is what we want. Not ten years from now. The org apparently agrees with this since they are reserving the starting job for him. I believe the Jets FO and owner have created a Qb controversy that isn't warranted. And doesn't help the team. And hurts the momentum we had coming off of a good season.It's just not smart and neither is this banter about "caving in" and this mental battle between the org and the starting Qb. Fitz might finally take the offer and the guaranteed 15 mil. He has a family and it's a lot of money to turn down. Or he could reject that deal and be willing to sit out or wait for a better offer even if less money. Like a lot of players he probably values his health and maybe it's just not worth it to him to accept a below market contract. He's had broken bones the last two seasons. So maybe he's ok not playing. And that could just be his leverage. A lot of you in your business might do the same thing. Rather than accept a below market offer for your services wait until the market improves. If you take a low offer all you're doing is diminishing your long term value. And if he signs that 3 year contract that's it, he's locked into it. He has no other recourse. 

Lol no.. I want jets to find a real qb, fitz isn't , and so far young geno hasn't shown he sure isn't ( yet ) . Marshall hurled in many would be ints from fitz.. I want jets to do best.. Could care less about if it's geno or fitz.. I just finding it funny how some of you fitz fan club are saying fans will revolt if jets go 1-3 with the cheap value qb who isn't acting like a diva.. But if jets finally make cuts to bring back the diva and he picks up where he left off and craps his pants and goes 1-3, it's all good.. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

The bottom line is that you don't take chances or base your season around a Qb who has been given a fair chance to start and has played poorly. And 2016 with our talent is not a rebuilding year or a try out season to see how Geno does. I'll take what worked not what didn't work. 

Actually the bottom line is you've repeated yourself way too many times 

[Rangers9]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Actually the bottom line is you've repeated yourself way too many times 

Again if you don't like it there's a blocking mechanism. It saves you a lot of grief. Please use it. 

[jetfan39]

1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

The bottom line is that you don't take chances or base your season around a Qb who has been given a fair chance to start and has played poorly. And 2016 with our talent is not a rebuilding year or a try out season to see how Geno does. I'll take what worked not what didn't work. 

how did week 17 at buffalo work?

[Rangers9]

2 minutes ago, jetfan39 said:

how did week 17 at buffalo work?

Not good. The team was flat. But we were in the game until the end. We had a chance to win it.  But how did weeks 1-16 work. And don't forget about 2014 now that was really great

[jetfan39]

2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Not good. The team was flat. But we were in the game until the end. We had a chance to win it.  But how did weeks 1-16 work. And don't forget about 2014 now that was really great

until  3 interceptions in 4th qtr.  He was decent last year but I would not cry if he goes unsigned. I am not excited about any of our choices for quarterback this year.

[Rangers9]

8 minutes ago, jetfan39 said:

until  3 interceptions in 4th qtr.  He was decent last year but I would not cry if he goes unsigned. I am not excited about any of our choices for quarterback this year.

No, we were still in the game and with the ball until the very last seconds. And down by 5 points.. So if you're going to suck at least keep your team in a position to win the game. Any coach would take that scenario when their team plays poorly. It was not impossible for us to steal that game. 

[Jetsplayer21]

13 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

No, we were still in the game and with the ball until the very last seconds. And down by 5 points.. So if you're going to suck at least keep your team in a position to win the game. Any coach would take that scenario when their team plays poorly. It was not impossible for us to steal that game. 

That is very true.. Down by 5 the last int was just fitz believing his arm was something better than it is.. The real horrible play of the game was fitz throwing the int on 3rd down while in easy FG range ! That is a dumb Sanchez like play. Fitz arm may suck but he is suppose to be a smart vet. Not there.. Now the down by 2 instead of 5 at the end makes a big difference doesn't it ?