Taking money out of the equation, Fitz or Geno

[j4jets]

2015 - Geno > Fitz the entire off season. 

2016 - Fitz = zero improvement at age 57. Geno = Standard QB learning curve he showed in the last few games of 2014 and that too with a much weaker supporting cast.

Answer is simple. Geno > Fitz. 

[Powpow]

On June 30, 2016 at 10:03 PM, Freemanm said:

Honestly, Geno. He's more athletic, has a stronger arm and finally got a year under his belt to sit and learn. I don't think we can appreciate just how bad a position he was put in in his first and second years. He deserves another shot and we should have confidence in him. Fitz can't win the big game, even though the Jets were in the red zone four times against Buffalo in the season ending loss. Simple as that. He lofted the ball last season in Marshall's general direction a lot and was made to look good against sub .500 teams. 

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Yes he's learned to sit and not get clocked. Now that's progress. 4 more months of 2016 season of him being the backup and continuing to learn the fine art of sitting and sayonara Geno. I'm sure the door will clock him on the way out.

[Mainejet]

Geno SUCKS and anyone with two eyes and an IQ above a turnip can readily tell. Fitz is by far and away a MUCH better QB than Geno will ever be. Even with money involved, I am completely content with the Jets making Fitz eventually their starter.

[Powpow]

1 hour ago, slats said:

I'd like to think the team can win more than two of their first seven, but I agree with the bold. This isn't a playoff season. And I see zero value in Fitzpatrick on a one year deal (the front office seems to agree), and not much more to the three year deal proposed. I'm honestly not sure that Fitz is worth $10 more than Geno, let alone $15M guaranteed. 

I disagree strongly with those who think this team has playoff potential with Fitz, and #1 pick potential with Geno. In fact, I think that's ridiculous. I wouldn't expect much -if any- difference in wins and losses between the two QBs. In fact, as a fan, it would be more fun for me to watch Geno Smith play. I expect him to make more big plays -for both the offense and the defense- than Fitz. It'll just be more exciting. Geno will screw up, but has the physical talent to come back, which Fitz has demonstrated over the course of his career to simply not have. We have a couple speedy WRs on the roster who are useless with Fitz at QB, and would have little chance of developing. 

But alas, Fitz will sign. 

To think that it would be 'fun' to watch Geno play QB marks you as the modern Marquis de Sade. 

[FidelioJet]

People and specifically Fitz supporters have to truly ask themselves this question...

What would Fitz have done with the team and coaching staff Geno was handed in his first two years?  Is there anyone that thinks he would have taken the Jets to the playoffs?

[Rangers9]

9 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

People and specifically Fitz supporters have to truly ask themselves this question...

What would Fitz have done with the team and coaching staff Geno was handed in his first two years?  Is there anyone that thinks he would have taken the Jets to the playoffs?

It's a fair question. Of course nobody knows. My take is that we would have won 6-8 games in 2014. Probably no playoffs. Btw Marty M is not a bad coach. 

[Rangers9]

22 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

People and specifically Fitz supporters have to truly ask themselves this question...

What would Fitz have done with the team and coaching staff Geno was handed in his first two years?  Is there anyone that thinks he would have taken the Jets to the playoffs?

You can also ask what would the Jets record have been in 2015 if Geno was the starter. My guess: no plus six. Maybe we win 6-8. I can't see us winning ten with Geno and either does the coaching staff.

[Freemanm]

5 hours ago, Mainejet said:

Geno SUCKS and anyone with two eyes and an IQ above a turnip can readily tell. Fitz is by far and away a MUCH better QB than Geno will ever be. Even with money involved, I am completely content with the Jets making Fitz eventually their starter.

Yeah and Fitz was in the Bills red zone four times in the 4th q that final game against the Bills and how many points was he able to put on the board? 

That game against the Eagles when Marshall and Ivory were out, how well did he do? Anyone with two eyes can see that he's never gonna get the Jets that far.

 

[joewilly12]

17 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

People and specifically Fitz supporters have to truly ask themselves this question...

What would Fitz have done with the team and coaching staff Geno was handed in his first two years?  Is there anyone that thinks he would have taken the Jets to the playoffs?

What he would have done is what he did do with the 5 previous teams he played for in 10 years and thats why he's a journeyman loser. 

[Jetsplayer21]

37 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

What he would have done is what he did do with the 5 previous teams he played for in 10 years and thats why he's a journeyman loser. 

Fitzranger is going to hunt you down for speaking the truth of Fitzpatrick

[Jet Nut]

On July 2, 2016 at 7:47 AM, CrazyCarl40 said:

It depends on how "well" he would do over those six games. Even if he went 3-3 with modest numbers, he wouldn't command a huge sum and he's not getting any kind of substantial deal anywhere else. Basically, the Jets just need a year bridge and then they can see Petty and Hack next season. I can't envision any scenario where Fitz or Geno playing so well that they're viable options in 2017.

I don't even like the Hack pick, but if you're going to use a 2nd rounder on a QB, you had best be prepared to let him develop at his own pace. I don't think Geno was ever going to be good and I hated the pick, but the way this organization handles young QBs is nothing short of madness. Sanchez included. 

Obviously all of this is conjecture and hypotheticals, but I don't want to see Hack play at all this year and Petty getting the last few games would be ideal in a losing season situation, as it's situated right now that might not even be an option if they bring in a vet. 

You've never seen this group handle young QBs.

How Rex, Tanny, Idzik, Shotty and MM handled Sanchez and Geno have nothing to do with Bowles, Chan and Macc.  If the sign Fitz, hes starting the season as our starting QB.  He'll start off miserably and Geno will take over at some point.  If Fitz isnt signed and Geno starts they just might sign an available vet to back him up

[joewilly12]

49 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You've never seen this group handle young QBs.

How Rex, Tanny, Idzik, Shotty and MM handled Sanchez and Geno have nothing to do with Bowles, Chan and Macc.  If the sign Fitz, hes starting the season as our starting QB.  He'll start off miserably and Geno will take over at some point.  If Fitz isnt signed and Geno starts they just might sign an available vet to back him up

Agree on the second part they will sign a vet backup just in case Geno falters Fitz isn't coming back. 

[j4jets]

21 hours ago, Mainejet said:

Geno SUCKS and anyone with two eyes and an IQ above a turnip can readily tell. Fitz is by far and away a MUCH better QB than Geno will ever be. Even with money involved, I am completely content with the Jets making Fitz eventually their starter.

Do you watch the NFL on Saturdays?

[ylekram]

15 hours ago, Freemanm said:

Yeah and Fitz was in the Bills red zone four times in the 4th q that final game against the Bills and how many points was he able to put on the board? 

That game against the Eagles when Marshall and Ivory were out, how well did he do? Anyone with two eyes can see that he's never gonna get the Jets that far.

 

since we are making stuff up, could I say that fitz had 5 td's passes dropped in the endzone in the 4th quarter? just want to know the rules here

[billo83]

22 hours ago, Mainejet said:

Geno SUCKS and anyone with two eyes and an IQ above a turnip can readily tell. Fitz is by far and away a MUCH better QB than Geno will ever be. Even with money involved, I am completely content with the Jets making Fitz eventually their starter.

This is what I don't get about you. You keep saying the Jets will win at most 6 games even with Fitz as the starter. If that's the case, why would you want to sign him for most likely 12M (which is what it will probably take), or at the very least 8M? It makes absolutely no sense to invest that amount of $ when you are only going to win 6 games. What's the worst thing that can happen by starting Geno in that case? If he's as bad as you say, then they will get the top pick in the draft (or a top 5 pick). Or they yank him at some point if the season is in the crapper and get Petty/Hack some real game experience. Or it could be remotely possible that Geno improved/matured after sitting and learning for a year. At least then you know what you now have in Geno who was a 2nd round pick in his contract year?

 

Honestly, if 6 games is the max that they can win, you have no risk starting Geno and no reason whatsoever to sign Fitz for any amount of $.

 

 

 

[Mainejet]

16 hours ago, Freemanm said:

Yeah and Fitz was in the Bills red zone four times in the 4th q that final game against the Bills and how many points was he able to put on the board? 

That game against the Eagles when Marshall and Ivory were out, how well did he do? Anyone with two eyes can see that he's never gonna get the Jets that far.

 

And GENO is?! Geno sucks far worse and he's already gotten several chances. On top of that, he's got the all around intelligence of a turnip. Geno should NEVER see the field for the NYJ again, and if it wasn't for Petty developing so slowly, Geno would have been CUT long ago.

[joewilly12]

5 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

And GENO is?! Geno sucks far worse and he's already gotten several chances. On top of that, he's got the all around intelligence of a turnip. Geno should NEVER see the field for the NYJ again, and if it wasn't for Petty developing so slowly, Geno would have been CUT long ago.

Chances?  With who the worst head coach in the NFL the worst OC and a group of WRs that were the worst in the league some chances........

[Mainejet]

20 minutes ago, billo83 said:

This is what I don't get about you. You keep saying the Jets will win at most 6 games even with Fitz as the starter. If that's the case, why would you want to sign him for most likely 12M (which is what it will probably take), or at the very least 8M? It makes absolutely no sense to invest that amount of $ when you are only going to win 6 games. What's the worst thing that can happen by starting Geno in that case? If he's as bad as you say, then they will get the top pick in the draft (or a top 5 pick). Or they yank him at some point if the season is in the crapper and get Petty/Hack some real game experience. Or it could be remotely possible that Geno improved/matured after sitting and learning for a year. At least then you know what you now have in Geno who was a 2nd round pick in his contract year?

 

Honestly, if 6 games is the max that they can win, you have no risk starting Geno and no reason whatsoever to sign Fitz for any amount of $.

 

 

 

Because jobs are at stake and the fans want to THINK the Jets can win a lot of ball games. I know based on their schedule, financial constraints, and what little Mac actually did acquiring talent that the Jets are not going to win many games. But most fans are always suckers for the green and white. Like most of the idiots on this site, there's NEVER any thing that the Jets can do wrong. They'll always be sure to police my speech.

But the fact is, the perception is 9/10 of reality. The fans see a great guy like Ryan Fitzpatrick that managed bring the team together, he created camaraderie like had never been seen when Geno was ruining this team, the overall metamorphosis of this team was truly marvelous. The fans are sold on the fact that know Fitz played well for the team. They know the same set of characters is still here for Fitz to utilize. They know Fitz is a guy their kids can look up to. Most of all, what they know is that Geno never did any of those things. They believe he never will.

With that said, if the front office opts to go into the regular season with Geno as the starter they would be committing career suicide. They would suffer through a firestorm of criticism like they've never seen. The fans would go off on Mac and Bowles for burning Fitz and making the Jets team suffer.

Personally, for ME, I have been done with Geno since the end of year 2. He's truly the athletic kid with a 10 cent brain. He will NEVER get this game between the ears. He will NEVER elevate the level of play of the surroundings players when he enters the huddle. He will continue to do sh*t for brains things off the field like getting bitch slapped for stiffing a fellow player of a measly $600 for charity no less. He will NEVER be a leader. Therefore, I do not want him on the team at all. I want him gone as soon as feasible. 

[roscoeword]

Geno has a higher ceiling, but a much lower floor.

[Savage69]

1 minute ago, roscoeword said:

Geno has a higher ceiling, but a much lower floor.

Can a bottomless pit be considered a floor??

[j4jets]

1 hour ago, Mainejet said:

And GENO is?! Geno sucks far worse and he's already gotten several chances. On top of that, he's got the all around intelligence of a turnip. Geno should NEVER see the field for the NYJ again, and if it wasn't for Petty developing so slowly, Geno would have been CUT long ago.

Geno has gotten several chances? Like when he had Santonio Holmes and Stephen Hill as his starters? Or when he had David Nelson as his starter? 

Heres a serious question, again. Do you watch the NFL on Saturdays?

[EM31]

If money were not part of the equation and if we were not getting Geno this year "for free" then he would have been cut already and he would be out of the NFL because nobody else would give him a penny.

But money is part of the equation because Fitz would never dare to try and hold out for so much unless the team with whom he was negotiating was looking at the prospect of a truly awful plan-B.  Think of it like the choice between a drink of water from a dirty bottle in Flint Michigan or being locked into a sealed room with a million Zica-infected mosquitoes.

[joewilly12]

51 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Geno has gotten several chances? Like when he had Santonio Holmes and Stephen Hill as his starters? Or when he had David Nelson as his starter? 

Heres a serious question, again. Do you watch the NFL on Saturdays?

Dont forget Clyde Gates 

[EM31]

Geno Smith.  Worst starting QB in the history of the NFL to have started at least two years.

It wasn't that so much had to play with the likes of Clyde Gates so much as it was that those players had to play with the burden of Geno Smith as their QB.

[YankeeJet22]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Dont forget Clyde Gates 

And Josh Cribbs. 

And David Nelson. 

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, EM31 said:

Geno Smith.  Worst starting QB in the history of the NFL to have started at least two years.

With the worst supporting cast in the NFL failure was already in place before Geno Smith even got a chance 

[EM31]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

With the worst supporting cast in the NFL failure was already in place before Geno Smith even got a chance 

Not even close.

[joewilly12]

4 minutes ago, EM31 said:

Not even close.

Yes it was and you know it......the great Rex Ryan and others LOL 

[EM31]

5 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Yes it was and you know it......the great Rex Ryan and others LOL 

2014 vs 2015 starters

2014 Starters			2015 Starters
QB	Geno Smith		QB	Ryan Fitzpatrick
RB	Chris Ivory		RB	Chris Ivory*	same
WR	Eric Decker		WR	Eric Decker	same
WR	Percy Harvin		WR	Brandon Marshall*	All-Pro vs All-pro
TE	Jeff Cumberland		TE	(none)	2014 better
LT	D'Brickashaw Ferguson		LT	D'Brickashaw Ferguson	same
LG	Oday Aboushi		LG	James Carpenter2015 WAYYY better
C	Nick Mangold*		C	Nick Mangold*	same
RG	Willie Colon		RG	Brian Winters	2014 better
RT	Breno Giacomini		RT	Breno Giacomini	same
Unless of course you mean that the backups had made such a tremendous difference.  We can list those as well if you like but I think you already know the answer there

[EM31]

Yes the HC was bad but he left the offense alone.

 

[EM31]

We have been through all of this before.  Marshall was a big plus but comparing offensive rosters overall between 2014 and 2015 there really was not that much of a talent surge in 2015 unless you happen to be a Geno salad tosser in which case it is in your interest to attempt to misrepresent the talent that was on that 2014 offensive team.

The only reasonable explanation therefore for the huge jump in the offensive effectiveness was that Geno was out and Fitzpatrick was in.  So yes, in that sense there was a huge talent surge in 2015.... at the QB position.... We went all the way up to average or a bit better.

[Rangers9]

Kind of hard to listen to the Geno Fan Club (world membership: 37) babble on about all of the bad breaks their guy got. Sounds a little like the Brady Quinn and Matt Leinart Fan Clubs. Of course it's their right to cry about how unfair life is. Sure, I could have been King of Prussia if I'd gotten the breaks. Unfair. 

[j4jets]

1 hour ago, EM31 said:

Geno Smith.  Worst starting QB in the history of the NFL to have started at least two years.

It wasn't that so much had to play with the likes of Clyde Gates so much as it was that those players had to play with the burden of Geno Smith as their QB.

Yeah because it's not like he was a rookie starting QB or anything n was chosen around the same pick Hack was. And Hack is atleast 2 years away from starting, if that.

Did I mention Geno was the clear winner of the QB competition between him n Fitz?

[YankeeJet22]

52 minutes ago, EM31 said:

The only reasonable explanation therefore for the huge jump in the offensive effectiveness was that Geno was out and Fitzpatrick was in.  

for the simpletons, yes that could be.

[Rangers9]

I don't blame Geno for the Oakland loss alone just like I don't solely blame Fitz for week 17. But both Qbs were in the same game. So you can compare them. Fitz led the offense on what looked like a good drive (first drive of the game) until he broke his left wrist and then Geno came in. After that things went downhill quickly and we got beat by 2 TDs. And that was our only loss by over 7. And if you really want to nit pick the Raiders were not considered a good team. So if you're going to downgrade the ten wins under Fitz as "easy" games then what about losing to the Raiders. Fitz's QBR was 30 points higher than Geno's for the time he played. So what did we get from this game: well for one Bowles was more confident with Fitz starting even though he had a broken left wrist. And the team at least that day didn't play well with Geno as the Qb. And if your excuse is that Geno was coming back from an injury then what about Fitz's broken wrist or doesn't that count. And btw Geno was back in late Sept. and the Oakland game was Nov. 1. So he had over a month in full practice. One more point. Fitz actually even with a broken wrist returned late in that game and relieved Geno after he was injured. And threw two passes (with a broken wrist) including a 25 yard completion to Kerley.