Taking money out of the equation, Fitz or Geno

[Warfish]

7 hours ago, EM31 said:

We have been through all of this before.  Marshall was a big plus but comparing offensive rosters overall between 2014 and 2015 there really was not that much of a talent surge in 2015 unless you happen to be a Geno salad tosser in which case it is in your interest to attempt to misrepresent the talent that was on that 2014 offensive team.

The only reasonable explanation therefore for the huge jump in the offensive effectiveness was that Geno was out and Fitzpatrick was in.  So yes, in that sense there was a huge talent surge in 2015.... at the QB position.... We went all the way up to average or a bit better.

If Geno plays, and does poorly, I guarantee you we'll have posters who claim the 2016 Jets "didn't have any talent around" Geno.

[Warfish]

7 hours ago, j4jets said:

Did I mention Geno was the clear winner of the QB competition between him n Fitz?

Hard to be the winner when you're on IR for getting the sh*t bet out of you by your own teammate.

[slats]

2 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

I don't blame Geno for the Oakland loss alone just like I don't solely blame Fitz for week 17. But both Qbs were in the same game. So you can compare them. Fitz led the offense on what looked like a good drive (first drive of the game) until he broke his left wrist and then Geno came in. After that things went downhill quickly and we got beat by 2 TDs. And that was our only loss by over 7. And if you really want to nit pick the Raiders were not considered a good team. So if you're going to downgrade the ten wins under Fitz as "easy" games then what about losing to the Raiders. Fitz's QBR was 30 points higher than Geno's for the time he played. So what did we get from this game: well for one Bowles was more confident with Fitz starting even though he had a broken left wrist. And the team at least that day didn't play well with Geno as the Qb. And if your excuse is that Geno was coming back from an injury then what about Fitz's broken wrist or doesn't that count. And btw Geno was back in late Sept. and the Oakland game was Nov. 1. So he had over a month in full practice. One more point. Fitz actually even with a broken wrist returned late in that game and relieved Geno after he was injured. And threw two passes (with a broken wrist) including a 25 yard completion to Kerley.

He broke his left thumb. Just thought you should know.

And he was 3/4 for 21 yards that first drive. When he left the game with his injured left thumb, the Jets had the ball on their own 43 yard line. That's the sum total of Fitz' big opening drive. Geno took over and drove the Jets to the Raiders' 22, where Nick Folk kicked a field goal. He completed the only pass he attempted for more yards than Fitzpatrick had thrown for to that point in the game. 

[EM31]

7 hours ago, YankeeJet22 said:

for the simpletons, yes that could be.

Are you speaking on behalf of the simpletons now?  How does one even audition for that role? 

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

I don't blame Geno for the Oakland loss alone just like I don't solely blame Fitz for week 17. But both Qbs were in the same game. So you can compare them. Fitz led the offense on what looked like a good drive (first drive of the game) until he broke his left wrist and then Geno came in. After that things went downhill quickly and we got beat by 2 TDs. And that was our only loss by over 7. And if you really want to nit pick the Raiders were not considered a good team. So if you're going to downgrade the ten wins under Fitz as "easy" games then what about losing to the Raiders. Fitz's QBR was 30 points higher than Geno's for the time he played. So what did we get from this game: well for one Bowles was more confident with Fitz starting even though he had a broken left wrist. And the team at least that day didn't play well with Geno as the Qb. And if your excuse is that Geno was coming back from an injury then what about Fitz's broken wrist or doesn't that count. And btw Geno was back in late Sept. and the Oakland game was Nov. 1. So he had over a month in full practice. One more point. Fitz actually even with a broken wrist returned late in that game and relieved Geno after he was injured. And threw two passes (with a broken wrist) including a 25 yard completion to Kerley.

Imagine how much effective this argument would be if Fitz actually broke his wrist?  

The rest is pure fantasy. 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

If Geno plays, and does poorly, I guarantee you we'll have posters who claim the 2016 Jets "didn't have any talent around" Geno.

You would guarantee this.

And be wrong.  

[Maxman]

46 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You would guarantee this.

And be wrong.  

Yeah if Geno plays and does poorly, that closes the book on him no doubt. This supporting cast is good, we debate everything that one is not really up for debate though.

[Maxman]

Who would you rather have Geno Smith or Joe Montana is his prime? Let's just say for arguments sake that Geno Smith was going to play for 4.2 million a year and Joe Montana would play for the rookie minimum. I don't actually know what the rookie minimum is, so let's say that it is $8. Alright I will be somewhat realistic so let's call it $8 per game. I don't know if they get paid for preseason, playoffs and Super Bowl so we will call it a maximum of 24 games. (16 regular, 4 pre, 3 playoffs, 1 Super Bowl).

Here is what we know:

Geno Smith = $4.2 million

Joe Montana (in his prime) = $192

So, who would you pick? I am going with Geno, because we know what Montana's upside is. But maybe Geno can pull in 7 Super Bowls, we just don't know. I am always going with upside, but that's just me.

I will hang up know and listen to what you think.

[Maxman]

Crap, if they get paid for the bye week (full disclosure : I don't know) that would up Montana's salary to $200. Just want to be up front so you have all the facts before deciding.

[mkajet01]

Geno Smith can't play! He's a idiot! Browning Nagle had great physical tools, he sucked! You geno Smith fansust be masochist! Jets will get to superbowl when they get it right & draft a qb who can play. Happy 4th

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[Integrity28]

16 hours ago, EM31 said:

We have been through all of this before.  Marshall was a big plus but comparing offensive rosters overall between 2014 and 2015 there really was not that much of a talent surge in 2015 unless you happen to be a Geno salad tosser in which case it is in your interest to attempt to misrepresent the talent that was on that 2014 offensive team.

The only reasonable explanation therefore for the huge jump in the offensive effectiveness was that Geno was out and Fitzpatrick was in.  So yes, in that sense there was a huge talent surge in 2015.... at the QB position.... We went all the way up to average or a bit better.

The difference in pre-snap adjustments and speed of getting the ball out alone made s huge difference.

But that is QB pla, which hasn't been part of the conversation for months. Easier to just argue that Marshall alone can offset all bad things by Geno, since you know... He did for Fitz.

[Jet Nut]

7 hours ago, EM31 said:

Are you speaking on behalf of the simpletons now?  How does one even audition for that role? 

By listening to people that claim the 2015 teams offensive lineup is pretty much the same as the 2014 offensive lineup?  That Marshall is the only difference.  

Come on, the teams and coaches arent the same

[Integrity28]

16 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Kind of hard to listen to the Geno Fan Club (world membership: 37) babble on about all of the bad breaks their guy got. Sounds a little like the Brady Quinn and Matt Leinart Fan Clubs. Of course it's their right to cry about how unfair life is. Sure, I could have been King of Prussia if I'd gotten the breaks. Unfair. 

Bad breaks for Geno = proof he's good.

 

Bad breaks for Fitz = proof he's bad.

 

The Geno argument has been, officially, the poorest effort I've ever witnessed in any ongoing Jet board debate.

I hope he can play, but none of the illogical, double-standard, straw-man arguments made in his favor have done anything to instill faith.

 

[Rangers9]

8 hours ago, slats said:

He broke his left thumb. Just thought you should know.

And he was 3/4 for 21 yards that first drive. When he left the game with his injured left thumb, the Jets had the ball on their own 43 yard line. That's the sum total of Fitz' big opening drive. Geno took over and drove the Jets to the Raiders' 22, where Nick Folk kicked a field goal. He completed the only pass he attempted for more yards than Fitzpatrick had thrown for to that point in the game. 

Broken thumb, my mistake sorry I was drinking pre-4th. Basically it was the only true game you could draw a comparison. Believe me I know it was flimsy and as silly as the Geno Fan Clubs contentions. Except I didn't throw weather into it (the weather was good, whatever that proves). But same coaching staff, players, etc. I mean to say that Brady is better than Geno do we need all of these variables to be exact. The bottom line with Fitz is that whatever his talent or lack of talent he works well with our team. And the offense clicked under him. Geno got a chance to play and didn't light it up. And the team behind him played poorly. The worst they did all season. That's an important part of the Qbs job: how the team plays under him as the leader. 

[Mike135]

Hey Fitz, in case you're following these threads...

 

[Snell41]

Does anyone really believe Fitz will match or improve upon his career year last season?

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[Rangers9]

6 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

Does anyone really believe Fitz will match or improve upon his career year last season?

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So you're 100% sure he won't. I thought the assumption is usually that they will. I mean in general, a guy has a good year the thought is he has a chance for repeating it. Same goes for the team. A good year usually leads to another good year. 

[joewilly12]

17 hours ago, EM31 said:

2014 vs 2015 starters

2014 Starters			2015 Starters
QB	Geno Smith		QB	Ryan Fitzpatrick
RB	Chris Ivory		RB	Chris Ivory*	same
WR	Eric Decker		WR	Eric Decker	same
WR	Percy Harvin		WR	Brandon Marshall*	All-Pro vs All-pro
TE	Jeff Cumberland		TE	(none)	2014 better
LT	D'Brickashaw Ferguson		LT	D'Brickashaw Ferguson	same
LG	Oday Aboushi		LG	James Carpenter2015 WAYYY better
C	Nick Mangold*		C	Nick Mangold*	same
RG	Willie Colon		RG	Brian Winters	2014 better
RT	Breno Giacomini		RT	Breno Giacomini	same
Unless of course you mean that the backups had made such a tremendous difference.  We can list those as well if you like but I think you already know the answer there

You forgot the most IMPORTANT part Geno had MM as an OC one of the worst in the league Fitz had Gailey one of the best in the league. 

[Snell41]

So you're 100% sure he won't. I thought the assumption is usually that they will. I mean in general, a guy has a good year the thought is he has a chance for repeating it. Same goes for the team. A good year usually leads to another good year. 

Except everything in this guy's history has proven otherwise. He had a career year by far against a historically easy schedule playing 2 horrible divisions. He's not improving on that.

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[drdetroit]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

By listening to people that claim the 2015 teams offensive lineup is pretty much the same as the 2014 offensive lineup?  That Marshall is the only difference.  

Come on, the teams and coaches arent the same

Not only that but Marshall is a huge difference maker.  He was a top 5 WR last season

[drdetroit]

3 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

Except everything in this guy's history has proven otherwise. He had a career year by far against a historically easy schedule playing 2 horrible divisions. He's not improving on that.

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I agree.  That's why I'm not opposed to saying screw it just start Geno.

 

 

 

[Rangers9]

4 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

Except everything in this guy's history has proven otherwise. He had a career year by far against a historically easy schedule playing 2 horrible divisions. He's not improving on that.

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I choose to be positive and he outplayed some pretty good Qbs last season. No reason to assume the worst and not stick with the player you had success with. 

[drdetroit]

Just now, Rangers9 said:

I choose to be positive and he outplayed some pretty good Qbs last season. No reason to assume the worst and not stick with the player you had success with. 

And mac would like to do that but at a reasonable price.  The Bradford deal screwed us

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Not only that but Marshall is a huge difference maker.  He was a top 5 WR last season

Love the idea that he's just one player, as if he didnt change much.

As did a healthy Decker all season.  Changes to the OL.  The defense, as if we're in a bubble and its only the offense that helps the point totals, field position etc.  Improved run game.

And just maybe the change to the coaching staff. 

Nah, same team.  The new charge from Fitz supporters.  

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I choose to be positive and he outplayed some pretty good Qbs last season. No reason to assume the worst and not stick with the player you had success with. 

No, you choose to be positive when it comes to your guy.

When it comes to Geno you go on and on as a total pessimist 

[drdetroit]

9 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Love the idea that he's just one player, as if he didnt change much.

As did a healthy Decker all season.  Changes to the OL.  The defense, as if we're in a bubble and its only the offense that helps the point totals, field position etc.  Improved run game.

And just maybe the change to the coaching staff. 

Nah, same team.  The new charge from Fitz supporters.  

Marshall made Decker better.  Decker now drew the other team's #2 CB and was often left in man to man.

 

Also, How many 3rd and longs did Marshall bail out Fitz last year? He can't do the same for Geno?

 

[BowlesMovement]

7 hours ago, Maxman said:

Who would you rather have Geno Smith or Joe Montana is his prime? Let's just say for arguments sake that Geno Smith was going to play for 4.2 million a year and Joe Montana would play for the rookie minimum. I don't actually know what the rookie minimum is, so let's say that it is $8. Alright I will be somewhat realistic so let's call it $8 per game. I don't know if they get paid for preseason, playoffs and Super Bowl so we will call it a maximum of 24 games. (16 regular, 4 pre, 3 playoffs, 1 Super Bowl).

Here is what we know:

Geno Smith = $4.2 million

Joe Montana (in his prime) = $192

So, who would you pick? I am going with Geno, because we know what Montana's upside is. But maybe Geno can pull in 7 Super Bowls, we just don't know. I am always going with upside, but that's just me.

I will hang up know and listen to what you think.

I could not agree more with this post! In addition, we have no idea how bad Montana would have been if he was the starting QB for the 13 and 14 Jets, so you absolutely have to go with Geno.

[Mainejet]

Geno Smith SUCKS. He's a pathetically sh*tty player that does every stupid thing one right after the other. He's so f*cking DUMB, that I'm sure the Jets have all they can do just to prevent Geno from sh*tting on the floor. On top of all of this, he has gotten multiple chances under the Jets with a very good HC in Rex Ryan and a great OC in Marty Morninweg. And true to form, he SUCKED every time. Geno does not build chemistry with anyone on the field, he never has, and he's had chances with some decent WR's like Harvin, Decker, Holmes. I will be ecstatic when Geno is finally cut.

[joewilly12]

8 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

Geno Smith SUCKS. He's a pathetically sh*tty player that does every stupid thing one right after the other. He's so f*cking DUMB, that I'm sure the Jets have all they can do just to prevent Geno from sh*tting on the floor. On top of all of this, he has gotten multiple chances under the Jets with a very good HC in Rex Ryan and a great OC in Marty Morninweg. And true to form, he SUCKED every time. Geno does not build chemistry with anyone on the field, he never has, and he's had chances with some decent WR's like Harvin, Decker, Holmes. I will be ecstatic when Geno is finally cut.

LMFAO DUMBEST POST OF THE YEAR 

Rex Ryan sucks Harvin and Holmes are not decent WRs LMFAO 

What has Fitzpatrick won in his career that makes him better than Geno Smith?

[Jet Nut]

11 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

Geno Smith SUCKS. He's a pathetically sh*tty player that does every stupid thing one right after the other. He's so f*cking DUMB, that I'm sure the Jets have all they can do just to prevent Geno from sh*tting on the floor. On top of all of this, he has gotten multiple chances under the Jets with a very good HC in Rex Ryan and a great OC in Marty Morninweg. And true to form, he SUCKED every time. Geno does not build chemistry with anyone on the field, he never has, and he's had chances with some decent WR's like Harvin, Decker, Holmes. I will be ecstatic when Geno is finally cut.

Very good HC and a "great" HC in MM?

Lol.  Harvin and Holmes?  Even funnier. 

[BowlesMovement]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

No, you choose to be positive when it comes to your guy.

When it comes to Geno you go on and on as a total pessimist 

Hello pot, I'd love to introduce you to someone, his name is kettle.

[Rangers9]

Ok so here are some of the Qbs we beat last year: Luck, Brady, Mariota, Tannehill, Cousins, Bortles, Eli. As for SOS, in game 2 we beat Indy 20-7. This was before they crashed. In 2014 the Colts won 11 games and went to the AFC Championship. It was only after that game that Bowles named Fitz who outplayed Luck (who had 3 picks that day) starter for the season. 

[Jetsplayer21]

7 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Ok so here are some of the Qbs we beat last year: Luck, Brady, Mariota, Tannehill, Cousins, Bortles, Eli. As for SOS, in game 2 we beat Indy 20-7. This was before they crashed. In 2014 the Colts won 11 games and went to the AFC Championship. It was only after that game that Bowles named Fitz who outplayed Luck (who had 3 picks that day) starter for the season. 

Are you saying you would rather have Fitzpatrick than Andrew  Luck ? ?

[Rangers9]

2 hours ago, drdetroit said:

Marshall made Decker better.  Decker now drew the other team's #2 CB and was often left in man to man.

 

Also, How many 3rd and longs did Marshall bail out Fitz last year? He can't do the same for Geno?

 

Yeah and how many times did Duper and Clayton bail out Marino. It's as irrelevant and as traditional a part of the game as any other. Ask Unitas about Raymond Berry or ask Eli about David Tyree etc etc etc. Add Randy Moss for a lot of Qbs including Brady.

[Warfish]

The 2014 and 2015 Offenses (QB Not Included):

RB#1  2014, Chris Ivory, 2015, Chris Ivory --- Same
RB#2  2014, Bilal Powell, 2015, Bilal Powell --- Same
RB#3  2014, Chris Johnson, 2015, Stevan Ridley --- Advantage 2014
FB#1  2014, John Connon (+Bo), 2015, Tommy Bohannon -- Irrelevant Advantage 2014
WR#1 2014, Percy Harvin (8 Games), 2015, Brandon Marshall --- Major Material Advantage 2015
WR#2 2014, Eric Decker, 2015, Eric Decker --- Same
WR#3 2014, Jeremy Kerley, 2015, Jeremy Kerley --- Same
WR#4 2014, Greg Salas, 2015, Quincy Enunwa -- Slight Advantage 2015
WR#5 2014, David Nelson, 2015, Kenbrell Thompkins -- Irrelevant Advantage 2015
TE#1  2014, Jace Amaro (+Cumb), 2015, Jeff Cumberland -- Advantage 2014
LT#1  2014,  D'Brick Ferguson, 2015, D'Brick Ferguson -- Same
LG#1 2014, Oday Abushi, 2015, James Carpenter -- Advantage 2015
CT#1 2014, Nick Mangold, 2015, Nick Mangold -- Same
RG#1 2014, Willie Colon, 2015, Brian Winters -- Slight Advantage 2015?
LG #1 2014, Breno Giacomini, 2015, Breno Giacomini -- Same

O-Co 2014:  Marty Mornhinweg (8 Top 10 Offenses in 15 Seasons)
O-Co 2015:  Chan Gailey (4 Top 10 Offenses in 13 Seasons)

Folks can judge for themselves if 2014 had "no talent" nd 2015 had "massive talent" or if they were more similar than different.