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Taking money out of the equation, Fitz or Geno


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Taking money out of the equation, Fitz or Geno?  

73 members have voted

  1. 1. Money not a part of your consideration

    • Fitz
      44
    • Geno
      29


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9 hours ago, Maxman said:

Yeah if Geno plays and does poorly, that closes the book on him no doubt. This supporting cast is good, we debate everything that one is not really up for debate though.

Because there aren't still Jets Fan who think we cut bait on Mark Sanchez too early, amiright?

It'll be a small minority, but there is no doubt they'll be post-2016 excuse makers for Smith if he doesn't perform this year.  They'll be folks saying to use the option year on him.

Better yet, if the team does resign Fitz, well get this entire argument over again in offseason 2017, that Geno needs a "fair chance" with "talent around him" so we just have to use the option year on his deal.

He'd have to be all-time-worst bad to get universal Jets Fandom "get rid of him" after this season.

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3 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

So right you are and all the Fitz vs Geno threads will be meaningless as we all will unite and root for the Jets to win.

Unfortunately some people will root for themselves to be right first Mac to be right second.

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7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The 2014 and 2015 Offenses (QB Not Included):

RB#1  2014, Chris Ivory, 2015, Chris Ivory --- Same
RB#2  2014, Bilal Powell, 2015, Bilal Powell --- Same
RB#3  2014, Chris Johnson, 2015, Stevan Ridley --- Advantage 2014
FB#1  2014, John Connon (+Bo), 2015, Tommy Bohannon -- Irrelevant Advantage 2014
WR#1 2014, Percy Harvin (8 Games), 2015, Brandon Marshall --- Major Material Advantage 2015

WR#2 2014, Eric Decker, 2015, Eric Decker --- Same
WR#3 2014, Jeremy Kerley, 2015, Jeremy Kerley --- Same

WR#4 2014, Greg Salas, 2015, Quincy Enunwa -- Slight Advantage 2015
WR#5 2014, David Nelson, 2015, Kenbrell Thompkins -- Irrelevant Advantage 2015
TE#1  2014, Jace Amaro (+Cumb), 2015, Jeff Cumberland -- Advantage 2014

LT#1  2014,  D'Brick Ferguson, 2015, D'Brick Ferguson -- Same
LG#1 2014, Oday Abushi, 2015, James Carpenter -- Advantage 2015
CT#1 2014, Nick Mangold, 2015, Nick Mangold -- Same
RG#1 2014, Willie Colon, 2015, Brian Winters -- Slight Advantage 2015?
LG #1 2014, Breno Giacomini, 2015, Breno Giacomini -- Same

O-Co 2014:  Marty Mornhinweg (8 Top 10 Offenses in 15 Seasons)
O-Co 2015:  Chan Gailey (4 Top 10 Offenses in 13 Seasons)

Folks can judge for themselves if 2014 had "no talent" nd 2015 had "massive talent" or if they were more similar than different.

Breno and D'Brick in 2015 were worse than they were in 2014. 

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56 minutes ago, BowlesMovement said:

Hello pot, I'd love to introduce you to someone, his name is kettle.

Right. 

Because this has anything to do with what I posted.

At least attempt to make sense instead of just trolling people

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3 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

So right you are and all the Fitz vs Geno threads will be meaningless as we all will unite and root for the Jets to win.

Of course we'll all root for the Jets to win.  You think people won't?

Is the reverse then true, You and Nut and the Anti-Fitz folks won;t root for wins if Fitz plays?

I don't think that's true at all.

I think we'll all root for wins every week.  If you prefer to be right than win, you don't belong here, frankly.

With that said, I think Geno fans EXPECT (not root for) Fitz to fail and Geno to then play (if Fitz is signed), while Fitz fans are generally 50/50 or worse on if Fitz will play "well" or not in 2016, they just think he'll play better in any given circumstance than Geno would.   

But at the end of all this, I expect all of us to root for wins and success.  

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Of course we'll all root for the Jets to win.  You think people won't?

Is the reverse then true, You and Nut and the Anti-Fitz folks won;t root for wins if Fitz plays?

I don't think that's true at all.

I think we'll all root for wins every week.  If you prefer to be right than win, you don't belong here, frankly.

With that said, I think Geno fans EXPECT (not root for) Fitz to fail and Geno to then play (if Fitz is signed), while Fitz fans are generally 50/50 or worse on if Fitz will play "well" or not in 2016, they just think he'll play better in any given circumstance than Geno would.   

But at the end of all this, I expect all of us to root for wins and success.  

I will support whoever the Jets decide to be the QB no matter who it is. 

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24 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Ok so here are some of the Qbs we beat last year: Luck, Brady, Mariota, Tannehill, Cousins, Bortles, Eli. As for SOS, in game 2 we beat Indy 20-7. This was before they crashed. In 2014 the Colts won 11 games and went to the AFC Championship. It was only after that game that Bowles named Fitz who outplayed Luck (who had 3 picks that day) starter for the season. 

They played us without a secondary for almost all of the game.  This was the beginning of their crash....injuries.  

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11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Because there aren't still Jets Fan who think we cut bait on Mark Sanchez too early, amiright?

It'll be a small minority, but there is no doubt they'll be post-2016 excuse makers for Smith if he doesn't perform this year.  They'll be folks saying to use the option year on him.

Better yet, if the team does resign Fitz, well get this entire argument over again in offseason 2017, that Geno needs a "fair chance" with "talent around him" so we just have to use the option year on his deal.

He'd have to be all-time-worst bad to get universal Jets Fandom "get rid of him" after this season.

What else does your crystal ball say? 

Where do you live? 

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14 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Yeah and how many times did Duper and Clayton bail out Marino. It's as irrelevant and as traditional a part of the game as any other. Ask Unitas about Raymond Berry or ask Eli about David Tyree etc etc etc. Add Randy Moss for a lot of Qbs including Brady.

Haha! The answer is: none. Duper and Clayton are two guys no one would've ever heard of if they didn't have Dan Marino throwing to them. 

The idea that you're talking about Ryan F***ing Fitzpatrick, and using Dan Marino, Johnny Unitas, and Tom Brady to try to make your point is absolutely stunning. Like seriously, can't make this sh!t up kinda stunning. 

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I don't hold it against Geno (it's not his fault) if the Jets don't re-sign Fitz. But I'll blame the org and esp the owner. Plus I'll root for Geno 100%. I expect esp at Qb for the team to go with their BAP like the way Bowles did last season with Fitz. And not to fight with him over a few million bucks which created an unneeded Qb controversy and a distraction. And maybe hurt any momentum we had going into the upcoming season after a good year. It's stupid. But if Geno starts I want him to play great and to win. Nothing is 100% and he should be improved. But imo Geno doesn't give us our best chance to win. 

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When someone says that Decker in 2014 is the same as Decker 2015 it says that you don't have a clue.  Or breaks down running backs, etc by name instead of as a unit and how it was coached and how it worked with the changed OL and ultimately how it produced.   Or watched both teams and actually is trying to make the case that Chan and MM, the entire CS are a wash. 

This might be the dumbest way to compare teams.  It's like when the clueless compare teams, any sport by going position to position comparisons. 

 

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20 minutes ago, slats said:

Haha! The answer is: none. Duper and Clayton are two guys no one would've ever heard of if they didn't have Dan Marino throwing to them. 

The idea that you're talking about Ryan F***ing Fitzpatrick, and using Dan Marino, Johnny Unitas, and Tom Brady to try to make your point is absolutely stunning. Like seriously, can't make this sh!t up kinda stunning. 

The idea that great Wrs don't bail out their Qbs no matter who they are even all time greats is just not true. Ask Montana about the best receiver ever. And Duper and Clayton were excellent receivers and wreaked havoc against us many times. 

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16 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

They played us without a secondary for almost all of the game.  This was the beginning of their crash....injuries.  

Vontae Davis had a concussion. That's football we had plenty of injuries too. What did it have to do with Luck's 3 picks. You can't even give us credit for a great win. I thought you were a Jets fan first and a Fitz hater second. If Geno had won that game a different story and no excuses for winning,

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25 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The 2014 and 2015 Offenses (QB Not Included):

RB#1  2014, Chris Ivory, 2015, Chris Ivory --- Same
RB#2  2014, Bilal Powell, 2015, Bilal Powell --- Same
RB#3  2014, Chris Johnson, 2015, Stevan Ridley --- Advantage 2014
FB#1  2014, John Connon (+Bo), 2015, Tommy Bohannon -- Irrelevant Advantage 2014
WR#1 2014, Percy Harvin (8 Games), 2015, Brandon Marshall --- Major Material Advantage 2015

WR#2 2014, Eric Decker, 2015, Eric Decker --- Same
WR#3 2014, Jeremy Kerley, 2015, Jeremy Kerley --- Same

WR#4 2014, Greg Salas, 2015, Quincy Enunwa -- Slight Advantage 2015
WR#5 2014, David Nelson, 2015, Kenbrell Thompkins -- Irrelevant Advantage 2015
TE#1  2014, Jace Amaro (+Cumb), 2015, Jeff Cumberland -- Advantage 2014

LT#1  2014,  D'Brick Ferguson, 2015, D'Brick Ferguson -- Same
LG#1 2014, Oday Abushi, 2015, James Carpenter -- Advantage 2015
CT#1 2014, Nick Mangold, 2015, Nick Mangold -- Same
RG#1 2014, Willie Colon, 2015, Brian Winters -- Slight Advantage 2015?
LG #1 2014, Breno Giacomini, 2015, Breno Giacomini -- Same

O-Co 2014:  Marty Mornhinweg (8 Top 10 Offenses in 15 Seasons)
O-Co 2015:  Chan Gailey (4 Top 10 Offenses in 13 Seasons)

Folks can judge for themselves if 2014 had "no talent" nd 2015 had "massive talent" or if they were more similar than different.

How many of Marty's top 10 offenses came when working for Andy Reid? You know, the head coach who left for Kansas City without telling him. 

Also, the Jets defense was ranked in the mid/late-20's (depending on how you rank them), and top ten last year. In 2014 they had 13 takeaways, in 2015 they had 30. But I'm sure none of that factors into the performance of the offense, either. 

And Eric Decker Eric Decker same is nonsense. Marshall replaced (an oft injured) Decker as the #1 WR, and Decker replaced Kerley as the #2. So Decker goes from facing #1 CBs and double teams, to facing lesser coverage every week. Trying to somehow pass that off as equal is disingenuous at best. Marshall moved every WR into a better position. Kerley was better as a #3 than a 1 or 2, etc. 

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16 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

The idea that great Wrs don't bail out their Qbs no matter who they are even all time greats is just not true. Ask Montana about the best receiver ever. And Duper and Clayton were excellent receivers and wreaked havoc against us many times. 

Duper and Clayton were nothing compared to Jerry Rice, who I'll give you as you've now moved on to using Joe Montana to make a point about Ryan Fitzpatrick. 

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12 hours ago, Warfish said:

Hard to be the winner when you're on IR for getting the sh*t bet out of you by your own teammate.

Three points to be noted. 

1. I have no idea who was on the IR. 

2. If a LB can't sucker punch a QB, who can?

3. The quality of all your posts is that of Fitzy's 4th quarter accomplishments against a half ass Bills D. 

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11 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Vontae Davis had a concussion. That's football we had plenty of injuries too. What did it have to do with Luck's 3 picks. You can't even give us credit for a great win. I thought you were a Jets fan first and a Fitz hater second. If Geno had won that game a different story and no excuses for winning,

Ugh, they were trailing all game, forcing Luck to throw more and take more risks? King of football 101.  I'm not complaining that they were injured, just pointing out that they weren't at full strength their problems started that day and continued all year.  

Different than the tall story you,were trying to sell

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14 minutes ago, slats said:

How many of Marty's top 10 offenses came when working for Andy Reid? You know, the head coach who left for Kansas City without telling him. 

Also, the Jets defense was ranked in the mid/late-20's (depending on how you rank them), and top ten last year. In 2014 they had 13 takeaways, in 2015 they had 30. But I'm sure none of that factors into the performance of the offense, either. 

And Eric Decker Eric Decker same is nonsense. Marshall replaced (an oft injured) Decker as the #1 WR, and Decker replaced Kerley as the #2. So Decker goes from facing #1 CBs and double teams, to facing lesser coverage every week. Trying to somehow pass that off as equal is disingenuous at best. Marshall moved every WR into a better position. Kerley was better as a #3 than a 1 or 2, etc. 

Worst of all its done just to help prove how superior Fitz is with this back assed logic that Geno didn't actually play with a team that had a lot worse talent on it than Fitz.  

Just as a way of combating the obvious which is we don't know what Geno would be able to do with better talent around him. 

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28 minutes ago, slats said:

The idea that you're talking about Ryan F***ing Fitzpatrick, and using Dan Marino, Johnny Unitas, and Tom Brady to try to make your point is absolutely stunning. Like seriously, can't make this sh!t up kinda stunning. 

 

4 minutes ago, slats said:

... you've now moved on to using Joe Montana to make a point about Ryan Fitzpatrick. 

Montana, Marino, Unitas, Brady... Fitz.

Seems reasonable.

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30 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

The idea that great Wrs don't bail out their Qbs no matter who they are even all time greats is just not true. Ask Montana about the best receiver ever. And Duper and Clayton were excellent receivers and wreaked havoc against us many times. 

The Marks Brothers were not excellent WRs who helped make Marino.  STOP.  That just says you have no idea what you're talking about.  

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34 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Of course we'll all root for the Jets to win.  You think people won't?

Is the reverse then true, You and Nut and the Anti-Fitz folks won;t root for wins if Fitz plays?

I don't think that's true at all.

I think we'll all root for wins every week.  If you prefer to be right than win, you don't belong here, frankly.

With that said, I think Geno fans EXPECT (not root for) Fitz to fail and Geno to then play (if Fitz is signed), while Fitz fans are generally 50/50 or worse on if Fitz will play "well" or not in 2016, they just think he'll play better in any given circumstance than Geno would.   

But at the end of all this, I expect all of us to root for wins and success.  

Don't agree with your numbers here. Basically you're just trying to say Fitz' robust supporters are more reasonable. Which many definitely are not, lol. My expectations, actually, would 100% fall into the latter category.

I think if Fitz starts, he'll perform worse than 2015, but still probably better than Geno might've. I just don't believe the difference is worth $15M guaranteed. And I'm not convinced the difference would be all that much, just different. I've said many times I think the wins/losses will be close regardless of who starts at QB, with Geno making bigger mistakes and bigger plays. 

Also, starting Fitz does nothing for the future of the team. They've made their offer to him, and while it's obvious that the prefer him to start over Geno this year, it's just as obvious that they prefer someone (anyone!) else to start no later than next year. So Fitz game managing the team to another non-playoff season, while speedy young receivers go to waste...  seems pointless. 

No love for Geno at all, I expect him to be on another team at this time next year. But the upside if he plays reasonably well this year is that someone will give him a decent contract, and the Jets could get a decent comp pick as a result. Meanwhile, we couldn't even get a comp pick for the still unemployed Fitzpatrick. :(

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48 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Right. 

Because this has anything to do with what I posted.

At least attempt to make sense instead of just trolling people

Sorry, I mixed it up, you are kettle, please meet pot. Don't smoke it though, you don't want a 4 week suspension from posting here.

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they both turn it over a bunch. 

the thing for me is after geno got punched, it seemed like none of his team mates came to his defense, and there were rumors last season after fitz broke his thumb that players came to bowles and said "anyone but geno"

 

so it's fitz until he is a bronco

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18 minutes ago, slats said:

Duper and Clayton were nothing compared to Jerry Rice, who I'll give you as you've now moved on to using Joe Montana to make a point about Ryan Fitzpatrick. 

You know that I'm not comparing Fitz to Montana. I never said that. Great receivers bail out Qbs. It's part of the game. 

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2 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

LMFAO DUMBEST POST OF THE YEAR 

Rex Ryan sucks Harvin and Holmes are not decent WRs LMFAO 

What has Fitzpatrick won in his career that makes him better than Geno Smith?

Ugh....10 games last season, 3905 yards passing 15 INT, 31 TD, he also brought this offense together. These are all things Geno Smith could NEVER do. NEVER. So crawl back in your hole. NO ONE will ever support bringing Geno back unless the Jets somehow cannot sign Fitz. Even then, after this season, he's GONE.

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Just now, Mainejet said:

Ugh....10 games last season, 3905 yards passing 15 INT, 31 TD, he also brought this offense together. These are all things Geno Smith could NEVER do. NEVER. So crawl back in your hole. NO ONE will ever support bringing Geno back unless the Jets somehow cannot sign Fitz. Even then, after this season, he's GONE.

10 wins against LOSING TEAMS we had the easiest schedule in the NFL we only beat 2 teams with winning records HIP HIP HOORAY

Stop IGNORING THE FACTS 

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3 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

You know that I'm not comparing Fitz to Montana. I never said that. Great receivers bail out Qbs. It's part of the game. 

Fine, whatever, just please don't throw the Smurf Brothers into that equation, okay? They were absolute nobodies who Dan Marino consistently threw open. Trying to use them to make your (weak) point is beyond weak. Think Julian Edleman on any other team. 

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2 minutes ago, slats said:

Fine, whatever, just please don't throw the Smurf Brothers into that equation, okay? They were absolute nobodies who Dan Marino consistently threw open. Trying to use them to make your (weak) point is beyond weak. Think Julian Edleman on any other team. 

I disagree on Duper and Clayton. I never said they were like Rice but they were imo very good. And believe it or not one time a few months ago a few guys on this board were dumping on Marino because he never won a SB. 

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1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

10 wins against LOSING TEAMS we had the easiest schedule in the NFL we only beat 2 teams with winning records HIP HIP HOORAY

Stop IGNORING THE FACTS 

What facts am I ignoring you idiot???? You're the dumb ass that CLAIMS the Jets beat two team with a winning record last season. Only in your tiny little brain did they beat a second winning team. They beat ONE team with a winning record - that's the FACT.

And yes, the NYJ had the easiest schedule I think I have ever seen them have. But once again, RYAN FITZPATRICK won 10 games against those easy teams - FACT. This is also something Geno Smith could NEVER do - FACT. So shove your delusions right up your ass, the best QB the NYJ could possibly have in 2016 is Ryan Fitzpatrick and no one else.

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10 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

What facts am I ignoring you idiot???? You're the dumb ass that CLAIMS the Jets beat two team with a winning record last season. Only in your tiny little brain did they beat a second winning team. They beat ONE team with a winning record - that's the FACT.

And yes, the NYJ had the easiest schedule I think I have ever seen them have. But once again, RYAN FITZPATRICK won 10 games against those easy teams - FACT. This is also something Geno Smith could NEVER do - FACT. So shove your delusions right up your ass, the best QB the NYJ could possibly have in 2016 is Ryan Fitzpatrick and no one else.

Time to sit in the corner for a little while. 

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What facts am I ignoring you idiot???? You're the dumb ass that CLAIMS the Jets beat two team with a winning record last season. Only in your tiny little brain did they beat a second winning team. They beat ONE team with a winning record - that's the FACT.

And yes, the NYJ had the easiest schedule I think I have ever seen them have. But once again, RYAN FITZPATRICK won 10 games against those easy teams - FACT. This is also something Geno Smith could NEVER do - FACT. So shove your delusions right up your ass, the best QB the NYJ could possibly have in 2016 is Ryan Fitzpatrick and no one else.

I'm not sure, but do you disagree with joewilly's post?

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On 7/3/2016 at 1:04 PM, Mainejet said:

Because jobs are at stake and the fans want to THINK the Jets can win a lot of ball games. I know based on their schedule, financial constraints, and what little Mac actually did acquiring talent that the Jets are not going to win many games. But most fans are always suckers for the green and white. Like most of the idiots on this site, there's NEVER any thing that the Jets can do wrong. They'll always be sure to police my speech.

But the fact is, the perception is 9/10 of reality. The fans see a great guy like Ryan Fitzpatrick that managed bring the team together, he created camaraderie like had never been seen when Geno was ruining this team, the overall metamorphosis of this team was truly marvelous. The fans are sold on the fact that know Fitz played well for the team. They know the same set of characters is still here for Fitz to utilize. They know Fitz is a guy their kids can look up to. Most of all, what they know is that Geno never did any of those things. They believe he never will.

With that said, if the front office opts to go into the regular season with Geno as the starter they would be committing career suicide. They would suffer through a firestorm of criticism like they've never seen. The fans would go off on Mac and Bowles for burning Fitz and making the Jets team suffer.

Personally, for ME, I have been done with Geno since the end of year 2. He's truly the athletic kid with a 10 cent brain. He will NEVER get this game between the ears. He will NEVER elevate the level of play of the surroundings players when he enters the huddle. He will continue to do sh*t for brains things off the field like getting bitch slapped for stiffing a fellow player of a measly $600 for charity no less. He will NEVER be a leader. Therefore, I do not want him on the team at all. I want him gone as soon as feasible. 

There's no way on earth that Macs or Bowles job is in jeopardy no matter who the QB is this season. It's year 2 of the regime that went 10-6 the first year. 

The fans are going to go off no matter what unless the Jets make the playoffs. Don't you think that if Mac signs Fitz for 12M fans are going to go ballistic if they only win 6 games as you say? Don't you think they'll be saying why didn't you give Geno a chance to prove he's improved in a contract year and he was a second round pick after all, now we'll never know, etc.  Mac is in a no win situation as far as fan outrage is concerned if they don't make the playoffs. 

You don't know for a fact that Geno hasn't improved after being humbled and sitting for a year. If the Jets are only going to win 6 games, there's zero risk in starting Geno and absolutely no reason to sign Fitz

 

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