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Bowles this year


BowlesMovement
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I'd really like to see what we have in Bowles this year. He needs to show some big improvement for me to believe he is the right guy for the job long term.

He has some good qualities, and some not so good. Hoping he can turn some of the not so good ones around and be a good long term coach for the Jets that we can win big with.

My biggest two beefs with him are, he seems to be very conservative, and wants to play close games. This keeps bad teams in games, and you will lose games you should win. I don't think a very good coach can play this way over the long haul. Unfortunately, this seems to be a trend we see from a lot of defensive minded HCs. The other one is he seems to be incredibly stubborn, and is not quick to adapt. We have seen game plans that seem to be taken away, and he refuses to change what isn't working way too often.

On the flip side, he is very even keeled which can be good in the NFL. When things got bad, he held the team together and seemed to provide good leadership in the face of adversity. The whole IK/Geno situation could have been a disaster, he acted swiftly and held the team together.

The biggest reason I want to see Fitzpatrick back is to evaluate Bowles. I don't think he likes Geno at all, and I don't want any excuses for him this year. Fitz is his guy, so if we see the same negatives this year from him, and no growth, it tells me he is not the right guy. I don't think Fitz is anything more than a bottom tier stater/very good backup, but with the weapons at his disposal, there is no excuse for conservative game plans and trying to keep games close. 

Give him his rope, and let's see if he can pull himself out, or if he hangs himself.

Rex got his players and his team, and we saw the disaster it became. Hopefully Bowles is the guy, because it's getting tiresome changing out coaches every few years.

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would he be conservative if he had a qb in the top half of the league.  if he was conservative at all it probability had to do with his players. fritz could not throw deep too often b/c the offensive line could not give him the time.

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I thought the Jets offense was the most aggressive it's been in years? Jesus, compared to Rex the last 6 years I thought I was watching the run & shoot for gods sake.

Exactly, that's what happens when non-intelligent posters start threads.

All it does is clutter up the board.

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12 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Exactly, that's what happens when non-intelligent posters start threads.

All it does is clutter up the board.

Why do you care sh*t face? Cluttered or not, this is a Jets board and you should learn to shut the **** up. You are the biggest troll on this board and I wonder what type of a loser you are. Thousands of posts on an opposing team's board. Get a life, loser. 

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1 hour ago, Jetster said:

I thought the Jets offense was the most aggressive it's been in years? Jesus, compared to Rex the last 6 years I thought I was watching the run & shoot for gods sake.

Many games, he only started throwing it when he had to. There were many games where the defense was stacking the box, and the Jets kept running right up the gut for no yards or for 2 yards. And they kept doing it over, and over again. When they were aggressive, they usually had good results.

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3 minutes ago, Fibonacci said:

Why do you care sh*t face? Cluttered or not, this is a Jets board and you should learn to shut the **** up. You are the biggest troll on this board and I wonder what type of a loser you are. Thousands of posts on an opposing team's board. Get a life, loser. 

The fact that they let this guy stay around here and troll Jets fans like they do is disgraceful.

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2 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Not sure what close games you're meaning, or which games we let bad teams stay in them ...

We beat Tennessee by 22, Cleveland by 21, Miami by 18 and 13, Washington by 14, Indy by 13; our only close wins were NE (6), Jacksonville (5), Dallas (3), Giants (3). Our close losses were Eagles (7), NE (7), Houston (7), Buffalo (5, twice). At best you could argue that Buffalo we should have won at least one ... Houston at a stretch. But I don't think anything was lost by us being conservative. In fact, much of the criticism in the last Buffalo game was that we had an INT in the end zone instead of playing it safe and taking the FG.

I am arguing that the Eagles game, Cleveland game before the turnovers,  the Houston game, the Bills games and the Giants games were extremely conservative, and they never took what the defense gave them, and instead kept with their game plan, which was not working. Miami we ran down their throat.

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3 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

If we don't make the playoffs this year, we should definitely fire him, because that's what smart teams do, and we're a smart team now because we have a personnel guy in charge.

Let the Idzik thing go brother, we are all wrong from time to time.... Let it go.....

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14 hours ago, BowlesMovement said:

I am arguing that the Eagles game, Cleveland game before the turnovers,  the Houston game, the Bills games and the Giants games were extremely conservative, and they never took what the defense gave them, and instead kept with their game plan, which was not working. Miami we ran down their throat.

Browns and Eagles were games 1 and 3 on our schedule, and we were playing with our backup QB after the appointed starter got KO'd in camp.

I have no issues with playing things conservatively and relying on our running game based on how little time our QB and WRs had had together.

Houston / Giants / Bills, I'd need to take another look at the games to see where we were at the time (two of those were not long after Fitz's injury, he may still have been limited at the time).

As for Miami, yes we did run all over them - because we could - but the first play from scrimmage in London was a 58 yard completion to Marshall. There were a lot of quiet Dolphins fans after that. :D 

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15 hours ago, jetfan39 said:

would he be conservative if he had a qb in the top half of the league.  if he was conservative at all it probability had to do with his players. fritz could not throw deep too often b/c the offensive line could not give him the time.

Fritz as you call him does not have the arm to go deep.

I would be willing to bet there are at least 10 non-QBs on the roster who could throw a better deep pass than Fritzy.

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Nothing about Bowles coaching style says hes conservative.  Especially given that his QB didnt excel at throwing the deep ball and he had injuries to the run game all season.

Its amazing to me how people watch games and see what they want to see, not what actually happens on the field.

 

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Nothing about Bowles coaching style says hes conservative.  Especially given that his QB didnt excel at throwing the deep ball and he had injuries to the run game all season.

Its amazing to me how people watch games and see what they want to see, not what actually happens on the field.

 

Yes, amazing indeed. Look deeper than the stats my young jedi, look deeper than the stats.

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56 minutes ago, BowlesMovement said:

Yes, amazing indeed. Look deeper than the stats my young jedi, look deeper than the stats.

Stats? 

You watch the games they played and don't go near the stat sheet at you see a game that's not conservative on any level.

 

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46 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Stats? 

You watch the games they played and don't go near the stat sheet at you see a game that's not conservative on any level.

 

I watched many weeks where the jets ran dives into a stacked line and then through a bomb on 3rd and 7, sorry you missed it brah

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1 minute ago, BowlesMovement said:

I watched many weeks where the jets ran dives into a stacked line and then through a bomb on 3rd and 7, sorry you missed it brah

Then you woke up.  

Or are one of those fans who think every run that doesn't go for gains are conservative calls.  As if less conservative means you don't run.  Or that conservative is cut and dried, doesn't take into account the QB who can't throw deep or the weeks that marshall was playing on one leg. 

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last summer he was asked what his plan was for getting ready to be the guy who has to make the decisions on the sidelines, and his reply was something like "I don't have one, experience is the best teacher"

we saw that unfold in many games

lets hope this season he actually has a plan, and he learned from his mistakes

his biggest weakness is his stubborness to "play our game"  he needs to face that elite players need to be double.  he sparingly doubled watt, hopkins and watkins and they killed us

 

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21 hours ago, BowlesMovement said:

I'd really like to see what we have in Bowles this year. He needs to show some big improvement for me to believe he is the right guy for the job long term.

He has some good qualities, and some not so good. Hoping he can turn some of the not so good ones around and be a good long term coach for the Jets that we can win big with.

My biggest two beefs with him are, he seems to be very conservative, and wants to play close games. This keeps bad teams in games, and you will lose games you should win. I don't think a very good coach can play this way over the long haul. Unfortunately, this seems to be a trend we see from a lot of defensive minded HCs. The other one is he seems to be incredibly stubborn, and is not quick to adapt. We have seen game plans that seem to be taken away, and he refuses to change what isn't working way too often.

On the flip side, he is very even keeled which can be good in the NFL. When things got bad, he held the team together and seemed to provide good leadership in the face of adversity. The whole IK/Geno situation could have been a disaster, he acted swiftly and held the team together.

The biggest reason I want to see Fitzpatrick back is to evaluate Bowles. I don't think he likes Geno at all, and I don't want any excuses for him this year. Fitz is his guy, so if we see the same negatives this year from him, and no growth, it tells me he is not the right guy. I don't think Fitz is anything more than a bottom tier stater/very good backup, but with the weapons at his disposal, there is no excuse for conservative game plans and trying to keep games close. 

Give him his rope, and let's see if he can pull himself out, or if he hangs himself.

Rex got his players and his team, and we saw the disaster it became. Hopefully Bowles is the guy, because it's getting tiresome changing out coaches every few years.

Good post. This is definitely a make or break year for him. Because the "honeymoon" period was in full swing is the only reason he got away with that sh*t pie he coached in Buffalo. Many other games in the middle part of the season where the team seemed to be sleepwalking, like what Bowles was teaching them was going in one ear and right out the other. Those are major concerns going forward. I don't believe anyone would have signed on with Bowles if they knew he was just another Herm Edwards and that is certainly what it seems like. If he's attempting to pass off as a Parcells guy, he needs to start showing it NOW. Right now, I see no similarities whatsoever.

But even faster Mac could sign his and Bowles death warrant if they decide to march Geno out on the field this season. The very second he starts being a dumb sh*t with the football, the fans will go off on the front office.

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Well, Let's examine the candidates ;

Quincy Enunwa  :  3rd year player who came on in his 2nd season with some big plays . Inconsistent hands remand his biggest critique .

Kenbrell  Thompkins : 2nd season with the Jets who has made some great plays but also suffers from inconsistent hands .

Devin Smith : Heading into his sophomore season after fighting through a bad rookie season that ended with a Knee injury that's likely to have him start the season on the PUP list .

Charone Peake :  7th round draft pick hoping to make a name for himself . Size and speed are his calling cards.

Robbie Anderson : UDRFA sleeper  with speed to burn . May need to get stronger .

Titus Davis   : UDRFA sleeper entering his 2nd training camp with the Jets . Could be his break through yr.

Jalin Marshall : UDRFA whose best shot to make the team is as the replacement for the departed Kerley as the special teams returner .

 

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7 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Then you woke up.  

Or are one of those fans who think every run that doesn't go for gains are conservative calls.  As if less conservative means you don't run.  Or that conservative is cut and dried, doesn't take into account the QB who can't throw deep or the weeks that marshall was playing on one leg. 

Yawn, I played football until I was 31 years old, including 4 years of college football. I am able to watch a game at a level that most fans cannot comprehend, and based on your posting, that clearly includes you. 

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20 hours ago, Larz said:

last summer he was asked what his plan was for getting ready to be the guy who has to make the decisions on the sidelines, and his reply was something like "I don't have one, experience is the best teacher"

we saw that unfold in many games

lets hope this season he actually has a plan, and he learned from his mistakes

his biggest weakness is his stubborness to "play our game"  he needs to face that elite players need to be double.  he sparingly doubled watt, hopkins and watkins and they killed us

 

 

On July 3, 2016 at 4:59 PM, BowlesMovement said:

I am arguing that the Eagles game, Cleveland game before the turnovers,  the Houston game, the Bills games and the Giants games were extremely conservative, and they never took what the defense gave them, and instead kept with their game plan, which was not working. Miami we ran down their throat.

The one that sticks in my head more is the Colts game. I don't know whether it showed inexperience in being the decision-maker, an inability to change on the fly without a committee of coaches behind closed doors, or just plain stubbornness in being unwilling to change.

But that game was badly coached, and what won that game was the combination of Luck being noticeably less than 100%, Gore fumbling inside our 10 without anyone touching him and a missed FG, and Indy permanently removing their only remaining starting corner with 2 full Jets' drives left before halftime. Still, we ran & sat on a 10 point lead instead of going for the kill and blowing it up to a 20+ point lead.

His explanation after the game, as to why he kept running and throwing deep even with the Colts stacking the box and V.Davis off the field, and the short/intermediate game there for them virtually at will: he didn't want to let them dictate our game plan; that we are a running team so why make it easy for them by passing. It was hard to listen to, as good coaches take what's handed to them; they don't lament on how that wasn't the desired game plan during the week. 

As I said back then, he's not going anywhere anytime soon, so I hope it's just a general lack of confidence due to inexperience in changing on the fly, because the alternatives to inexperience in changing game plans mid-game are unwillingness or inability to do so. Or both.

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4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

 

The one that sticks in my head more is the Colts game. I don't know whether it showed inexperience in being the decision-maker, an inability to change on the fly without a committee of coaches behind closed doors, or just plain stubbornness in being unwilling to change.

But that game was badly coached, and what won that game was the combination of Luck being noticeably less than 100%, Gore fumbling inside our 10 without anyone touching him and a missed FG, and Indy permanently removing their only remaining starting corner with 2 full Jets' drives left before halftime. Still, we ran & sat on a 10 point lead instead of going for the kill and blowing it up to a 20+ point lead.

His explanation after the game, as to why he kept running and throwing deep even with the Colts stacking the box and V.Davis off the field, and the short/intermediate game there for them virtually at will: he didn't want to let them dictate our game plan; that we are a running team so why make it easy for them by passing. It was hard to listen to, as good coaches take what's handed to them; they don't lament on how that wasn't the desired game plan during the week. 

As I said back then, he's not going anywhere anytime soon, so I hope it's just a general lack of confidence due to inexperience in changing on the fly, because the alternatives to inexperience in changing game plans mid-game are unwillingness or inability to do so. Or both.

Agree, I actually forgot about that comment, however he seemed to stick to that mentality throughout the year in several games. 

I like Bowles, I like he way he leads, I thought he kept the team together through adversity, but this is something he really needs to figure out quickly if he is going to be a good HC.

I do slightly disagree that he is not going anywhere any time soon though. If this team goes 6-10 or even 7-9 without a ton of injuries, he is on a very hot seat for 2017.

The media and fan base will be enraged, and Woody will act sooner rather than later.

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14 hours ago, BowlesMovement said:

Yawn, I played football until I was 31 years old, including 4 years of college football. I am able to watch a game at a level that most fans cannot comprehend, and based on your posting, that clearly includes you. 

Who gives a shlt that you were Al Bundy on the field.  Means nothing.  And your posts prove that more than trying to be a football expert you're too busy trying to be the clown trolling the board.

Its what you do

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22 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Then you woke up.  

Or are one of those fans who think every run that doesn't go for gains are conservative calls.  As if less conservative means you don't run.  Or that conservative is cut and dried, doesn't take into account the QB who can't throw deep or the weeks that marshall was playing on one leg. 

 

24 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Who gives a shlt that you were Al Bundy on the field.  Means nothing.  And your posts prove that more than trying to be a football expert you're too busy trying to be the clown trolling the board.

Its what you do

Not sure why you feel the need to make every debate or argument into a personal attack.... Its tiresome. You accuse people of sh!t they didn't say, or you attack them. You made a claim that I don't know what I am watching, and I debunked that and told you I do, and probably know more than you. I am not trying to be any expert on anything. This is a Jets message board, for discussing the Jets. I make points and state my opinions. You disagree with them so you turn it into a nasty argument with personal attacks. You really ought to grow the fk up, you trash this board daily with your nonsense. I cant wait until @Maxman or another mod bans you, so I can sit back and laugh.

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On 7/3/2016 at 3:22 PM, BowlesMovement said:

I'd really like to see what we have in Bowles this year. He needs to show some big improvement for me to believe he is the right guy for the job long term.

He has some good qualities, and some not so good. Hoping he can turn some of the not so good ones around and be a good long term coach for the Jets that we can win big with.

My biggest two beefs with him are, he seems to be very conservative, and wants to play close games. This keeps bad teams in games, and you will lose games you should win. I don't think a very good coach can play this way over the long haul. Unfortunately, this seems to be a trend we see from a lot of defensive minded HCs. The other one is he seems to be incredibly stubborn, and is not quick to adapt. We have seen game plans that seem to be taken away, and he refuses to change what isn't working way too often.

On the flip side, he is very even keeled which can be good in the NFL. When things got bad, he held the team together and seemed to provide good leadership in the face of adversity. The whole IK/Geno situation could have been a disaster, he acted swiftly and held the team together.

The biggest reason I want to see Fitzpatrick back is to evaluate Bowles. I don't think he likes Geno at all, and I don't want any excuses for him this year. Fitz is his guy, so if we see the same negatives this year from him, and no growth, it tells me he is not the right guy. I don't think Fitz is anything more than a bottom tier stater/very good backup, but with the weapons at his disposal, there is no excuse for conservative game plans and trying to keep games close. 

Give him his rope, and let's see if he can pull himself out, or if he hangs himself.

Rex got his players and his team, and we saw the disaster it became. Hopefully Bowles is the guy, because it's getting tiresome changing out coaches every few years.

He's conservative because of his QB.  You cant be super aggressive with a QB who struggles to complete anything longer than 15 yards.  With that said, that's not on Bowles. Its on Gailey.  Fitz is on record that Bowles has nothing to do with the offense, at all.  From what I read last year, Chan gives him the game plan and basically Bowles ok's it and that's his entire interaction with the offense on a week to week basis.  Fitz said he would basically make a few comments, like, "we need to take care of the ball" or "watch out for so and so", but that's it.  

What I'd like to see from Bowles is better timeout usage, better clock management and let the best players play.  No favoritism b.s. like he pulled with Cro last year.

 

 

 

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Just now, JiF said:

He's conservative because of his QB.  You cant be super aggressive with a QB who struggles to complete anything longer than 15 yards.  With that said, that's not on Bowles. Its on Gailey.  Fitz is on record that Bowles has nothing to do with the offense, at all.  From what I read last year, Chan gives him the game plan and basically Bowles ok's it and that's his entire interaction with the offense on a week to week basis.  Fitz said he would basically make a few comments, like, "we need to take care of the ball" or "watch out for so and so", but that's it.  

What I'd like to see from Bowles is better timeout usage, better clock management and let the best players play.  No favoritism b.s. like he pulled with Cro last year.

 

 

 

Im not really talking about conservative becasue of his QB. I am talking about having a game plan to run the ball on a team that generally does not stop the run well, and the team stacking the box, and the Jets running with no success despite this. Yeah, Fitz doesnt have a strong arm, but the offense had a very good intermediate passing game with Fitz, Marshall and Decker. Many games that intermediate passing game was ignored becasue they insisted on trying to run the ball into a stacked box.

To me, if its on Gailey, its on Bowles. Bowles is the HC, so the buck stops with him. Just like it did with Rex. I have never been a big Chan fan, and questioned Bowles hiring the second I heard Chan was his OC, but Bowles is the head guy.

Agree on all of your last points.

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