Casserly Chimes In ...

[Warfish]

30 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Indeed. Which is what I meant by compete in camp. I'd hope that at this point Fitz would have to re-establish himself to a degree as the alpha. They may give him the benefit of the doubt but he has to be consistently as good or better than Geno to warrant a defacto starter for 16 games.

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If Fitz is signed, I'm willing to bet there is no competition held.

Same way that if Fitz is not signed, there will also be no competition held.

[ljr]

3 hours ago, cant wait said:

 

@ljr I was referring to this quote:

""What defines me is not what I do on the field or who I am as a football player. What defines me is my five beautiful kids, my wife, who I am off the field. A lot is made of that [on-field] stuff, but I'm defined, at least in my own mind, as much more than just an NFL quarterback." 

I hear ya brother !  As you can see from my AP/ USA Today quote though Fitz admitted  he doesn't want to retire ... Which as Slats said was a big mistake as far as his negotiating position ... For without any other suitors that was the biggest leverage his agent could have used in his favor.

 

Big Mac has a Big Sack in having let Fitz test the market in FA ... Then also in holding firm through all this gobbledegook ... I expect behind the scenes he's put greater pressure on Fitz's agent to get $h*t resolved by start of TC ... If that doesn't happen then he may resort to talking up Geno's performances in camp (even though he'll actually have no intention of Geno starting) as a threat .

[Paradis]

If Fitz is signed, I'm willing to bet there is no competition held.

Same way that if Fitz is not signed, there will also be no competition held.

True, I doubt they'd hold a formal competition, but the production better be there. The margin for error is small

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[ljr]

1 hour ago, Mike135 said:

Perhaps.  But if Macc actually leaves the current offer out there and Fitz doesn't accept it, fans can only be mad at Fitz.

The right move for Macc is to pull the offer now.  However his photo doesn't give me much confidence that Macc is as smart as it would seem...

Where's his coffee ice-cream ?

[cant wait]

7 minutes ago, ljr said:

I hear ya brother !  As you can see from my AP/ USA Today quote though Fitz admitted  he doesn't want to retire ... Which as Slats said was a big mistake as far as his negotiating position ... For without any other suitors that was the biggest leverage his agent could have used in his favor.

 

Big Mac has a Big Sack in having let Fitz test the market in FA ... Then also in holding firm through all this gobbledegook ... I expect behind the scenes he's put greater pressure on Fitz's agent to get $h*t resolved by start of TC ... If that doesn't happen then he may resort to talking up Geno's performances in camp (even though he'll actually have no intention of Geno starting) as a threat .

Yeah I'm sure there is a deadline but it  seems as though the extended stalemate is about more than just dollars at this point, it would also help explain why the jets have been so patient with giving fitz the time to decide whether he wants to come back or hang up his cleats while he's still in relatively good health. the man has taken a beating over the last couple seasons so I can't fault him for that

[j4jets]

5 hours ago, AFJF said:

Based on how the Jets have proceeded with Mo from day one, it looks like they don't have much interest in signing him to a long-term deal any time soon.  Tagging Mo again next season is pretty pricey, but a modest increase from this year's price.  Off the top of my head I believe it jumps by $3 million.

Agreed. If we keep Mo as is n tag him next year, we'll have zero cap space. If we keep him this year n sign Fitz to a 3/24 deal, we'll be out of cap space in 2017 again n that's without Mo. I don't see how releasing possibly your best defender n signing a 'never-has-been' journeyman QB to 8 figure salary makes you a better team. 

[AFJF]

Just now, j4jets said:

Agreed. If we keep Mo as is n tag him next year, we'll have zero cap space. If we keep him this year n sign Fitz to a 3/24 deal, we'll be out of cap space in 2017 again n that's without Mo. I don't see how releasing possibly your best defender n signing a 'never-has-been' journeyman QB to 8 figure salary makes you a better team. 

Meh, the cap space thing doesn't worry me like it used to.  Plenty of ways to make room if needed.  As of now, the Jets have less than $3 million in space with Lee unsigned. Even with that being the case, there's an offer on the table for Fitz.  As of now they have $21 million in cap space next season and I wouldn't be shocked if they cut ties with Breno and David Harris after this season.  That alone would free up another $10 million.

[EM31]

Going into the season with just Geno is potentially a firing offense for the GM if things go really badly.  It may be the right move on the larger scheme of thing but ask John Idzik about the larger scheme of things.  There is zero political cover for our GM if this goes badly.  It may be seen as a first strike for him but it is a first strike he doesn't need to take and his drafts could end up anywhere at this point.

Mo Wilkerson may also be viewed in some circles as failure by the GM and so the number of strikes could rise pretty quickly.

[j4jets]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Because (in the hypothetical) Macc needs to sign Mo first, or make some other cap-related moves, to make it happen.  Or, so Fitz can have a built-in for not attending summer camp.  

You can't sign Mo n Fitz without unloading Revis n you can't unload Revis  

Quote

The alternative theory is that the offer to Fitz is not whats been reported, and the Jets have no intention of any kind of bringing him back, and have low-balled him in private so as to dump him.

Possible of course

Quote

We'll see, camp approaches soon.

He's no Tom Brady, but you have no evidence that Macc wouldn't do such a thing for him after last year.  We're both speculating.  I base mine of the seeming vibe of Fitz, the team, and the WR's.  That, and the petent ridiculousness of the concept of Fitz "turning down" 12/6(12)/6 given whats he's made of late.

I'm not speculating. That is not how business is done. The only time this would be considered speculation is if it actually was Brady or his caliber, not Fitz. He's a backup that had zero chemistry n timing with Devin while Decker n Marshall bailed him out million times.

Quote

Yes, they can.

Sure we can sign both  but are we willing to release couple of highly paid players to make the cap room? So, no. They can't n won't.

Quote

The deals can be constructed so as to allow both, which is why longer terms deals are so nice.  While cuts may be needed in future out years, there are easy choices already in the pipeline or easily foreseen (an old Revis, Mangold reneg, various over-the-hill veteran cuts, for example). 

All that for a journeyman QB. Revis reneg makes zero sense. What're you going to reneg? We all know how that will end. N Mangold is on the books for $9 mil in 2017. Not sure what you're expecting him to renegotiate it down to, but I'm damn sure I don't wanna pay him $12 mil at age 35 in 2018 after negotiating his 2017 salary down to a bowl of Chips n salsa. 

So yeah, signing Mo n Fitz is a recipe for disaster n future cap hell. Parcells would jump on that idea so I give u that. 

[j4jets]

25 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Meh, the cap space thing doesn't worry me like it used to.  Plenty of ways to make room if needed.  As of now, the Jets have less than $3 million in space with Lee unsigned. Even with that being the case, there's an offer on the table for Fitz.  As of now they have $21 million in cap space next season and I wouldn't be shocked if they cut ties with Breno and David Harris after this season.  That alone would free up another $10 million.

It's all nice cutting old players n all but theory is flawed. You're losing starters n you need their replacements. Fitz n Mo's salaries for 2016 would need to be kept at a minimum, which in turn increases future salaries. So their 2016 salaries would hit $30+ mil total. There goes that $31 mil cap space n we are yet to sign Lee, who will have $3-5 mil salary in 2017, and the drafters of 2017. So we can squeeze them both in, but we won't have a penny to spend in FA in 2017 n that's after releasing two starters. Sounds fun but unrealistic. N like I said, is it worth signing Fitz to go through all these cuts?

[ljr]

6 minutes ago, j4jets said:

It's all nice cutting old players n all but theory is flawed. You're losing starters n you need their replacements. Fitz n Mo's salaries for 2016 would need to be kept at a minimum, which in turn increases future salaries. So their 2016 salaries would hit $30+ mil total. There goes that $31 mil cap space n we are yet to sign Lee, who will have $3-5 mil salary in 2017, and the drafters of 2017. So we can squeeze them both in, but we won't have a penny to spend in FA in 2017 n that's after releasing two starters. Sounds fun but unrealistic. N like I said, is it worth signing Fitz to go through all these cuts?

The theory's not flawed ... It's called salary cap era team management ... You lose the good player a year too early rather than a year too late due to cost.  You give the draft picks a little extra value due to their being low cost ... That's why why I had expected something for Mo to have gotten worked out during the draft ... Perhaps something during the season still can be done if a top team suffers a DE injury.  Believe the UGA kid ... Jordon Jenkins is the hope to replace Harris ... And Breno has been avg at best so will not be as difficult to fill his spot

[ljr]

3 hours ago, cant wait said:

Yeah I'm sure there is a deadline but it  seems as though the extended stalemate is about more than just dollars at this point, it would also help explain why the jets have been so patient with giving fitz the time to decide whether he wants to come back or hang up his cleats while he's still in relatively good health. the man has taken a beating over the last couple seasons so I can't fault him for that

Believe the issue is with year 3 ... Jets expect to have one of the kids ready to take over by then & would like to have Fitz as low priced backup insurance.  Fitz believes he will do well this year & could get more money next year, or certainly by year 3.

Think it also helps Mac with the cap math.

Fitz, unfortunately for him is stuck with us being the only ones offering him a chance to start in '16 ... But Mac appears to be holding him hostage for '18 at 6 mil ... If the small amount of rumors are true.

 

maybe some reasonable good performance incentive clauses for the team & for the QB position can be written in to allow him to leave in year 3 with little damage to us.

 

he does want to come back & does not want to "hang his cleats up"!

 

you need to go listen to some. Kenny Rogers The Gambler regarding your Fitz is contemplating retirement agenda though bro!

 

You got to know when to hold em ... Know when to fold em!

[AFJF]

31 minutes ago, j4jets said:

It's all nice cutting old players n all but theory is flawed. You're losing starters n you need their replacements. Fitz n Mo's salaries for 2016 would need to be kept at a minimum, which in turn increases future salaries. So their 2016 salaries would hit $30+ mil total. There goes that $31 mil cap space n we are yet to sign Lee, who will have $3-5 mil salary in 2017, and the drafters of 2017. So we can squeeze them both in, but we won't have a penny to spend in FA in 2017 n that's after releasing two starters. Sounds fun but unrealistic. N like I said, is it worth signing Fitz to go through all these cuts?

Cutting players who are no longer playing at a level that justifies their salary is flawed?  To each his own, I suppose.

[Snell41]

In our way of thinking its huge money and nobody sane would turn it down. But for an NFL starting Qb it's not a fair market deal. 

If he signed the 3 year deal and plays 2016 the way he has for 10 out of his 11 year career he should be thankful as hell, because at his age if he regresses back to his normal level he'll be out of the league with no contract at all come 2017.

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[j4jets]

9 hours ago, ljr said:

The theory's not flawed ... It's called salary cap era team management ... You lose the good player a year too early rather than a year too late due to cost.  You give the draft picks a little extra value due to their being low cost ... That's why why I had expected something for Mo to have gotten worked out during the draft ... Perhaps something during the season still can be done if a top team suffers a DE injury.  Believe the UGA kid ... Jordon Jenkins is the hope to replace Harris ... And Breno has been avg at best so will not be as difficult to fill his spot

Putting a lot of eggs in that "hope" basket. I could understand if we were talking about even an average QB such as Alex Smith. But we are talking about a backup 'never-has-been' journeyman QB that couldn't beat out Geno even last off season. 

[j4jets]

8 hours ago, AFJF said:

Cutting players who are no longer playing at a level that justifies their salary is flawed?  To each his own, I suppose.

Lol n paying $12mil to a journeyman QB isn't flawed. Cutting players without a viable option is flawed indeed because without the cap, you better hope you draft like the Steelers or the Ravens. 

[BowlesMovement]

4 hours ago, j4jets said:

Putting a lot of eggs in that "hope" basket. I could understand if we were talking about even an average QB such as Alex Smith. But we are talking about a backup 'never-has-been' journeyman QB that couldn't beat out Geno even last off season. 

I bet if Geno played for your hero Rexy, Geno would shine for the superstar he is, amirite?

[Rangers9]

8 hours ago, Snell41 said:

If he signed the 3 year deal and plays 2016 the way he has for 10 out of his 11 year career he should be thankful as hell, because at his age if he regresses back to his normal level he'll be out of the league with no contract at all come 2017.

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I'm glad you're making value judgments for other people's salaries. And Osweiller didn't to anything until last season. You just don't like the guy and don't want him to get paid. And if you look at his career 105 starts and not nearly as bad as you claim it is. 

[ljr]

5 hours ago, j4jets said:

Putting a lot of eggs in that "hope" basket. I could understand if we were talking about even an average QB such as Alex Smith. But we are talking about a backup 'never-has-been' journeyman QB that couldn't beat out Geno even last off season. 

Lol ... How about last on season?

[Snell41]

I'm glad you're making value judgments for other people's salaries. And Osweiller didn't to anything until last season. You just don't like the guy and don't want him to get paid. And if you look at his career 105 starts and not nearly as bad as you claim it is. 

You're right, I don't want him getting overpaid. I personally lump him in with the countless other NFL players that got paid off a career year, only to never be heard from again. History supports that being the likely outcome time and time again, far more so than him going on to finish a mediocre career with some sudden final push at a great level. There is nearly a zero percent chance he will duplicate or better last season.

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[ljr]

4 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

You're right, I don't want him getting overpaid. I personally lump him in with the countless other NFL players that got paid off a career year, only to never be heard from again. History supports that being the likely outcome time and time again, far more so than him going on to finish a mediocre career with some sudden final push at a great level. There is nearly a zero percent chance he will duplicate or better last season.

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What is the % chance of having someone better to be our QB in 2016 ... And if so, who?

[Rangers9]

5 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

You're right, I don't want him getting overpaid. I personally lump him in with the countless other NFL players that got paid off a career year, only to never be heard from again. History supports that being the likely outcome time and time again, far more so than him going on to finish a mediocre career with some sudden final push at a great level. There is nearly a zero percent chance he will duplicate or better last season.

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If that's the case and you're right don't sign him. You just don't sign a player if you 100% know he's going to regress. I'm glad you know it all. 

[JohnnyLV]

13 minutes ago, ljr said:

What is the % chance of having someone better to be our QB in 2016 ... And if so, who?

100% if you start Geno. 

[FTL Jet Fan]

These threads are just becoming painful. Good read however OP, thanks.

[Snell41]

If that's the case and you're right don't sign him. You just don't sign a player if you 100% know he's going to regress. I'm glad you know it all. 

I'm completely fine with not signing him.

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[ljr]

3 hours ago, johnnysd said:

100% if you start Geno. 

ROFLMFAO!

[Sperm Edwards]

On 7/8/2016 at 9:54 AM, Rangers9 said:

You're saying if Fitz plays well in 2016 and he doesn't like the 6 mil or backup status he can hold out. It's not an option in a negotiation. You don't sign a contract basically cementing yourself into a deal like that unless you think your future is as a backup. I'm not dreaming up incentives you're assuming what the incentives are without knowing the facts. Often incentives are hard to attain. We don't know what they are. At this time his agent doesn't like the deal. And that includes the incentives. To me the obvious and fairest solution is a one year deal. If he plays well he can market his skills. If he doesn't play well he signs a backup deal with the Jets or another team. 

You are making your own unsubstantiated assumptions. You don't know what they are any more than I do, but are fully assuming the incentives are unattainable enough to ignore them as though they don't exist. I think that's far less likely than him collecting $12M per year he's starting and $6M per year he's a backup. 

If he plays well in 2016 he won't be making $6M. He will be the starter, making $12M. 

Not that it matters anyway. In your opinion he played well enough in 2015 to warrant $12M for 2016 alone, but no one in the NFL thinks he's worth that. Next year, when he's a year older, he'll be even less in demand.

You think it sucks. I think it sucks that he threw 3 picks in the 4th quarter with the season on the line, and therefore this deal is at worst fair. Personally I think it's too much for him as it is, especially now that every other potentially-interested team has passed.

[Rangers9]

37 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You are making your own unsubstantiated assumptions. You don't know what they are any more than I do, but are fully assuming the incentives are unattainable enough to ignore them as though they don't exist. I think that's far less likely than him collecting $12M per year he's starting and $6M per year he's a backup. 

If he plays well in 2016 he won't be making $6M. He will be the starter, making $12M. 

Not that it matters anyway. In your opinion he played well enough in 2015 to warrant $12M for 2016 alone, but no one in the NFL thinks he's worth that. Next year, when he's a year older, he'll be even less in demand.

You think it sucks. I think it sucks that he threw 3 picks in the 4th quarter with the season on the line, and therefore this deal is at worst fair. Personally I think it's too much for him as it is, especially now that every other potentially-interested team has passed.

I'm not assuming anything about incentives. Where did I say that. You're making all the assumptions.  Saying that if he plays well he'll be the starter in 2017 and making 12 mil. We don't know what the incentives are but Fitz and his agent do and as of now they don't like what they see on paper. The incentives could be for making the Pro Bowl, getting into the playoffs, wins, a lot of things. Or if for 2017 they are based on the number of starts that's out of the players control. If he doesn't start he gets nothing. I'm just giving examples and not making things up because we don't know what they are. Fitz could play well and the team doesn't make the playoffs and Mac decides to go with Hack. Then he is frozen in for 2 years as a backup and not allowed to go out on the open market. Again this year there are no jobs. 

[AFJF]

15 hours ago, j4jets said:

Lol n paying $12mil to a journeyman QB isn't flawed. Cutting players without a viable option is flawed indeed because without the cap, you better hope you draft like the Steelers or the Ravens. 

Okay, we know your position.  Cutting players who are not performing at a level that justifies their salary in order to replace them with younger/potentially better players is flawed.  As I said, to each his own.  I say let a guy go to create room to make the team better. 

[AFJF]

9 hours ago, ljr said:

Lol ... How about last on season?

Geno was cleared to play and in uniform after week 2.  Fitz beat him out 14 weeks in a row.

[Mike135]

7 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Geno was cleared to play and in uniform after week 2.  Fitz beat him out 14 weeks in a row.

Ugh... Bowles' first big failure as a coach.  Strike 1.  Let's hope he doesn't get strike 2 for the same reason this season.

[Rangers9]

Imo if Geno had started on week 17 it wouldn't have even been close. 

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Imo if Geno had started on week 17 it wouldn't have even been close. 

Fitz threw 3 INTs in a row in the last 3 possessions of the season continuing his career playoff drought. 

[AFJF]

If only the Jets had started Geno against the Bills...if only.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bills-were-literally-bummed-out-when-jets-pulled-geno-smith/

Jets quarterback Geno Smith threw three interceptions in his first eight passes against the Bills on Sunday, and that was when Rex Ryan decided he had seen enough. 

After the three picks, Ryan decided to bench Smith and play Michael Vick, a move that literally "bummed out" Bills players, according to the New York Post. 

"We were bummed out when they took Geno out," a member of the organization told the Post. 

Why was Buffalo bummed out? Bills linebacker Preston Brown can explain. 

"He was just eyeing down receivers," Brown said. "We saw it on film that he was just staring guys down. When we know if you do that we're going to jump on guys' routes, and we got some picks in the back end with just reading his eyes."

Brown was one of four Bills' players who picked off a pass in the game.

"We had Geno rattled and we tried to stay after him," Brown said. 

If you missed any of Smith's interceptions, let's rehash them real quick for you. 

Apparently, it was obvious to everyone that Smith was off his game. Bills defensive tackle Stefan Charles said he noticed. 

"You could see from the very first snap [Smith] wasn't connecting with any of his receivers and our DBs took advantage of that," Charles said. 

Unfortunately for the Jets' next opponent, Kansas City, there will be no feasting on Geno Smith interceptions. Ryan has already announced that Vick will start against the Chiefs this week. Of course, Vick wasn't much better against the Bills, he also turned the ball over three times in the 43-23 loss. 

 

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, AFJF said:

If only the Jets had started Geno against the Bills...if only.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bills-were-literally-bummed-out-when-jets-pulled-geno-smith/

Jets quarterback Geno Smith threw three interceptions in his first eight passes against the Bills on Sunday, and that was when Rex Ryan decided he had seen enough. 

After the three picks, Ryan decided to bench Smith and play Michael Vick, a move that literally "bummed out" Bills players, according to the New York Post. 

"We were bummed out when they took Geno out," a member of the organization told the Post. 

Why was Buffalo bummed out? Bills linebacker Preston Brown can explain. 

"He was just eyeing down receivers," Brown said. "We saw it on film that he was just staring guys down. When we know if you do that we're going to jump on guys' routes, and we got some picks in the back end with just reading his eyes."

Brown was one of four Bills' players who picked off a pass in the game.

"We had Geno rattled and we tried to stay after him," Brown said. 

If you missed any of Smith's interceptions, let's rehash them real quick for you. 

Apparently, it was obvious to everyone that Smith was off his game. Bills defensive tackle Stefan Charles said he noticed. 

"You could see from the very first snap [Smith] wasn't connecting with any of his receivers and our DBs took advantage of that," Charles said. 

Unfortunately for the Jets' next opponent, Kansas City, there will be no feasting on Geno Smith interceptions. Ryan has already announced that Vick will start against the Chiefs this week. Of course, Vick wasn't much better against the Bills, he also turned the ball over three times in the 43-23 loss. 

 

Rex Ryan I dont remember him ever winning a Super Bowl or coach of the year awards after Buffalo fails to make the playoffs this season Rex Ryan will be a used car salesman.