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What advanced stats say about Ryan Fitzpatrick's 2015 season

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5 minutes ago, Kevin L said:

You can tell how much they really want him from the fact he's not even on the team.

 

I know, right?  When was the last time a team handed the starting job to somebody who isn't even on the roster?  Unprecedented as far as I can recall.

Fitz will sign when he feels like it.

Edited by AFJF

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9 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Rampages?

He said he expected Geno to start.  That was the right call.  Give him four weeks to show what he's got.  If he's Geno, you move on to Fitz.

Loooking force  the "several times" he said Geno was better than Fitz.

I wonder how heated it got at FP when the HC benched the "better" QB for 14 consecutive weeks, forcing Gailey to go with Fitz.

 

 

Yea he was pretty obstinate. I bet Gailey wanted to punch Geno in the eye for making him look stupid lol

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2 minutes ago, Powpow said:

Yea he was pretty obstinate. I bet Gailey wanted to punch Geno in the eye for making him look stupid lol

Geno has made tons of people look stupid.

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16 minutes ago, AFJF said:

And still named the starter.  Sure doesn't say much for Geno.

Doesn't say much for the NY Jets who cant seem to find that franchise QB yea its been awhile 1969........

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4 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Geno has made tons of people look stupid.

No one more than himself. 

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3 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Doesn't say much for the NY Jets who cant seem to find that franchise QB yea its been awhile 1969........

So how many years does that make it joewilly12- refresh our memories. 

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6 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Doesn't say much for the NY Jets who cant seem to find that franchise QB yea its been awhile 1969........

What do Mac and Bowles have to do with anything before thy arrived?

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18 hours ago, AFJF said:

Right...because you can only hit a WIDE OPEN receiver if you have a coach to tell you how to.  

Even the worst QB's in the NFL can hit a guy with some of the windows Geno had.

You know, you've taken this anti-geno thing to the next level... there's lots of people here who don't like him. Which is fine I suppose (although i tend to believe we should hope for the best for anyone in green and white), but YOU... you've been a such a b*tch about this thing that if ever ends up starting games -- and god help him -- ends up being the real deal...  This place will never let you live it down. Ever.

You'll be a bigger joke than the man you spend 6.5 hours a day condemning. 

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11 minutes ago, Paradis said:

You know, you've taken this anti-geno thing to the next level... there's lots of people here who don't like him. Which is fine I suppose (although i tend to believe we should hope for the best for anyone in green and white), but YOU... you've been a such a b*tch about this thing that if ever ends up starting games -- and god help him -- ends up being the real deal...  This place will never let you live it down. Ever.

You'll be a bigger joke than the man you spend 6.5 hours a day condemning. 

They don't have to let me live it down.  I've said several times that I hope any of the young QB's beat Fitz out...Geno included.  Hell, I even said it on the board a few hours ago.  I'm not sure how anyone can not let me live something down that I've openly said I'm hoping for.

Nice try though.

Edited by AFJF

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12 minutes ago, Paradis said:

You know, you've taken this anti-geno thing to the next level... there's lots of people here who don't like him. Which is fine I suppose (although i tend to believe we should hope for the best for anyone in green and white), but YOU... you've been a such a b*tch about this thing that if ever ends up starting games -- and god help him -- ends up being the real deal...  This place will never let you live it down. Ever.

You'll be a bigger joke than the man you spend 6.5 hours a day condemning. 

Oh, and I also wrote this. 

http://www.jetnation.com/2015/06/03/five-reasons-to-believe-in-geno-smith/

Sorry that I put Mike Maccagnan's opinion and key facts ahead of your opinion.

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1 minute ago, AFJF said:

They don't have to let me live it down.  I've said several times that I hope any of the young QB's beat Fitz out...Geno included.  Hell, I even said it on the board a few hours ago.  I'm not sure how anyone can not let me live something down that I've openly said I'm hoping for.

Nice try though.

lol, gfy. don't even try to sell me a song about you wishing this or that. You've been such open sore this off season... you've made your bed. Be at peace with lying in it. 

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Just now, Paradis said:

lol, gfy. don't even try to sell me a song about you wishing this or that. You've been such open sore this off season... you've made your bed. Be at peace with lying in it. 

I think Geno will suck.

I hope Geno doesn't suck.

Can't make it much easier for you to understand.

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8 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I think Geno will suck.

I hope Geno doesn't suck.

Can't make it much easier for you to understand.

StickMen.jpg

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1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

StickMen.jpg

Good one Tx.

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7 hours ago, ylekram said:

slats, the front office is shaking in their boots at the thought of starting geno smith. there is no other way around it.

they state fitz is the 2016 starter even tho he is not under contract and geno smith is

they made an offer that was not topped by any other team 4 months ago. still on the table

mac has stated his primary goal was to get fitz signed after the draft

at the same time, mac also stated that both sides need to compromise to get the deal done AFTER the offer was made. doesn't sound like a guy who made a "take it or leave it" offer and doesn't sound like a guy who feels comfortable with geno smith starting

mac showed little to no interest in any other free agent qb's despite having a 4th round project and the leagues worst starting qb in 2013-2014 on the roster

a few days of having geno smith playing pitch and catch during ota's has not changed the front offices mind

yes, the front office has a lot of leverage but fitz has just as much

fitz will sign with the ny jets. you can take that to the bank. he will not sign the current offer

Exactly.  As I've said a million times before, every single action this FO has made in regards to the QB position tells us they don't want Geno beyond the length of his contract. At his very best, Ryan Fitzpatrick is a slightly above average QB and the Jets are offering to pay him wayyyy more than they already have Geno under contract for.  The fact that Fitz has put the Jets on hold does not mean they don't want him, it means he's taking some time off and playing the long game.  If somebody else's starter gets hurt, it adds a bidder and boosts the price.  If not, he takes what the Jets offered him a few months ago.

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Just now, AFJF said:

Exactly.  As I've said a million times before, every single action this FO has made in regards to the QB position tells us they don't want Geno beyond the length of his contract. At his very best, Ryan Fitzpatrick is a slightly above average QB and the Jets are offering to pay him wayyyy more than they already have Geno under contract for.  The fact that Fitz has put the Jets on hold does not mean they don't want him, it means he's taking some time off and playing the long game.  If somebody else's starter gets hurt, it adds a bidder and boosts the price.  If not, he takes what the Jets offered him a few months ago.

The fact that the Jets havent blinked in this Fitzpatrick fiasco tells me they might just have moved on from him. If there is a God please let this be true.

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Just now, joewilly12 said:

The fact that the Jets havent blinked in this Fitzpatrick fiasco tells me they might just have moved on from him. If there is a God please let this be true.

Hope all you like.  FItz is coming back and Geno will probably be a Brown in 2017.

 

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Just now, AFJF said:

Hope all you like.  FItz is coming back and Geno will probably be a Brown in 2017.

 

As long as he wins us football games and gets us in the playoffs thats great!!!!!!  

I root for anyone in a Jets uniform to do good.

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6 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

As long as he wins us football games and gets us in the playoffs thats great!!!!!!  

I root for anyone in a Jets uniform to do good.

uh huh

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21 hours ago, Paradis said:

You know, you've taken this anti-geno thing to the next level... there's lots of people here who don't like him. Which is fine I suppose (although i tend to believe we should hope for the best for anyone in green and white), but YOU... you've been a such a b*tch about this thing that if ever ends up starting games -- and god help him -- ends up being the real deal...  This place will never let you live it down. Ever.

You'll be a bigger joke than the man you spend 6.5 hours a day condemning. 

Of course it will let down. Once Geno is off this roster next year it will let down. Party at my place 💃🏻🍕👯🌭🍔🍟🌮🍦🎂🎉

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On July 10, 2016 at 3:33 PM, AFJF said:

Hope all you like.  FItz is coming back and Geno will probably be a Brown in 2017.

 

More like an Eskimo in the CFL.

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It's possible to accept that Fitzpatrick is proven to be a better decision maker, while also accepting that he's incredibly limited physically. Bottom line is, he made the decision of where the ball was going pre snap way too often to survive. His interceptions are god-awful. If he was truly making "good" reads out there, he would have maybe seen the Buffalo CB move to the inside of Decker's route before he broke. Instead he made his decision 5 seconds earlier and was going to throw it there anyway.

 

Jets fans are better off reading this article by the same guy:

http://presnapreads.com/2016/03/28/chan-gailey-new-york-jets-dont-need-ryan-fitzpatrick/

 

And when you do read this article, it's also possible to accept that Geno can actually pull off a similar year if he gets the ball out quicker and doesn't try to do too much when a sack is imminent. It's not f*cking black and white (no pun intended) with these two, they both stink, but Gailey is the x factor.

 

 

Quote

 

Chan Gailey, New York Jets Don’t Need Ryan Fitzpatrick

gettyimages-459751418.jpg?resize=690%2C4

Ryan Fitzpatrickgate… (Do we have an official -gate name yet? Isn’t everything supposed to be somethinggate nowadays? I guess if anything it would be Beardgate) Beardgate is dragging on for far longer than anyone anticipated it would. The New York Jets have refused to budge on a new contract for Ryan Fitzpatrick, balking at the idea of paying him over $15 million per season. Fitzpatrick, fresh off a year when the Jets talked him up to the point that he couldn’t help but feel like a franchise quarterback, rightfully wants to be paid as much as possible.

The main reason Fitzpatrick thinks he can be paid, and the main reason the Jets think he is a good quarterback, is his touchdown-to-interception ratio.

 

In 16 Regular Season games, Fitzpatrick threw 31 touchdowns to 15 interceptions. 31 touchdowns to 15 interceptions seems like an impressive ratio on the surface. The quarterback threw more than two touchdowns to every pass he had picked off. It’s less impressive when you consider that nine quarterbacks threw more touchdowns than him during the Regular Season while only four threw more interceptions. Furthermore, only one quarterback had more interceptable passes than Fitzpatrick last year and he required a disastrous playoff performance to do so.

Not only was Fitzpatrick fortunate to keep his interception total so low, he was overly reliant on his supporting cast for his touchdowns. That 31 touchdown number is a testament to the quality of Chan Gailey and Brandon Marshall more than it is to the quality of Fitzpatrick as a player.

That is why the Jets have come to this impasse in negotiations.

Marshall had arguably the best season of his career last year. He dealt with drop issues, partly because of how his targets were arriving, but those issues were washed away by a tidal wave of impressive plays. Week-after-week Marshall would make spectacular adjustments to errant passes or offer his quarterback a wide catch radius to throw into. No cornerback could comfortably combat the Jets’ number one receiver at the catch point.

Marshall Radius


Marshall


Marshall NE

On each of these three plays, Fitzpatrick throws poorly placed passes. Two of those throws, the one against the Patriots and the one against Washington, actually favor the defensive backs rather than the receiver but neither defender shows off any awareness or ball skills to react. Marshall is able to adjust while the ball is in the air before making difficult receptions so that Fitzpatrick’s poor play doesn’t have any impact on the outcome. Those three bad throws result in 88 yards and three touchdowns without an incompletion.

Throwing to Marshall was a crutch that Fitzpatrick could rely on. A crutch that few quarterbacks in the league were afforded. His value was apparent on every route in any area of the field. His ability to high point the ball in the endzone stood out also.

Jump

On this play, Cleveland Browns cornerback Joe Haden has perfect coverage on Marshall. Fitzpatrick flights the ball into the air, he doesn’t do anything wrong on the play but he doesn’t have to be precise either. He only has to put the ball in the air and let Marshall beat Haden. It’s not simply a case of Marshall reaching above Haden either. Marshall manipulates the defensive back by how he approaches the ball. He recognizes the flight early, but doesn’t attack it immediately.

Marshall waits as long as he can, keeping his arms down and freezing Haden in place, the cornerback can’t see the ball so he is relying on reading Marshall’s actions to know when it arrives. Because Marshall hesitates, he is able to snatch the ball out of the air without letting Haden get his hands near him.

The catch itself is pretty impressive too.

Jump Ball

On this play, Fitzpatrick decides he is going to Marshall before the ball is even snapped. With a free release off the line of scrimmage, it’s easy for the wide receiver to post up the smaller cornerback and box him out for the football. All Fitzpatrick has to do is avoid throwing the ball past the cornerback. He essentially throws it to where the cornerback is standing, Marshall is able to stop and reach up for it while the defender is draped around his body.

This one is a contested catch, one that Marshall makes look especially easy.

Jump Ball2

Even when Marshall is perfectly covered, you can count the number of defensive backs in the league who have the size and strength to hold him off on one hand. Talent has never been Marshall’s issue throughout his career. He hasn’t always been fully focused on the field or a teammate who fit in with his locker room off of it. In 2015, he had no issues of the field and appeared to be fully focused on being effective on it. With his talent, that made him unstoppable more often than not.

Fitzpatrick was able to act like Matthew Stafford did so often with Calvin Johnson. Just throw a catchable pass and the receiver will go and win it.

Marshall’s presence also allowed Eric Decker to move into a more favorable complementary role. Decker could do to secondary cornerbacks what Marshall could do to the opponent’s best cornerback. That was less significant than the impact of Gailey’s play calling. Gailey runs a very quarterback-friendly offense. It’s an offense that is impressively designed but has only ever really been run by Fitzpatrick.

What Gailey does is simplify the quarterback’s reads by relying on smart route combinations. He will naturally put receivers in space using pick plays and screens that emphasize the ability of the player catching the ball rather than the ability of the player throwing it.

Pick Play NE


Pick Play DAL

Gailey will regularly use motion to target specific areas of the field. Both of these plays result in easy short touchdown throws for Fitzpatrick because the offensive coordinator combines motion behind the line of scrimmage with a pick play outside. It’s extremely difficult for defensive backs to swap assignments in the split second they have to recognize and communicate with each other, so both receivers are wide open when they receive the ball.

This is a one-read play for Fitzpatrick. The receiver who lines up outside isn’t actually trying to release into his route on either play. If the quarterback holds the ball he will extend his route into the endzone, but his priority is to (legally or illegally) get in the way of the cornerback following the intended target across the field.

You would expect every single quarterback in the NFL to consistently make this play.

Picking!

Gailey doesn’t just rely on a handful of favored pick plays either. He will attack the defense in different ways, while throwing the ball to different targets. In the first gif, Marshall was the receiver behind the pick of a tight end. In the second, Decker was the receiver behind the pick of Marshall. In this gif, Decker picks off the linebacker for Chris Ivory to catch the ball at the line of scrimmage. Ivory actually has to wait and reach back for the ball, it’s a poor throw from Fizpatrick, but the design of the play and its execution are so impressive that it doesn’t matter.

Play Design

This fourth play is a cross between a pick play and a screen. It’s likely not a one-read play for the quarterback. The timing suggests that the outside wide receiver is actually running a route but will be made aware of the potential of this situation arising, a situation where he can make the key block to spring Marshall free down the sideline. Marshall had lined up as the inside slot receiver of the three options on that side of the field.

Very rarely will Gailey’s offense rely on isolated routes. He attacks the short and intermediate levels of the defense’s coverage so well because his route combinations consistently complement each other.

To this point, we have seen 10 of Fitzpatrick’s touchdown throws. None of the plays came with a high degree of difficulty, many were poorly thrown passes, but the statistical representation of these plays for Fitzpatrick are 10/10 for 129 yards and 10 touchdowns. Fitzpatrick has two more touchdown throws that come on screen passes.

Gailey doesn’t just rely on traditional screen plays where the quarterback holds the ball for a moment before asking his offensive linemen to get out into either flat ahead of his running back. He uses more action and different pieces to create more deception. Fitzpatrick will throw passes to the line of scrimmage rather than five or six yards deep while his eligible receivers become just as important as blockers.

Powell makes screen work

On this play, Fitzpatrick adds 16 yards and a touchdown on a simple throw underneath to Bilal Powell. The screen is actually poorly executed as Brandon Marshall and Eric Decker miss their blocks and the safety over the middle of the field isn’t picked up at all. Powell remedies the situation by running away from that unblocked safety who takes a poor angle. Once he has turned upfield, the Titans defense shows off horrible effort so one missed tackle gets Powell into the endzone.

The Titans defense was one of many in 2015 that couldn’t react to Gailey’s offense. Fitzpatrick threw for three touchdowns, one of which was a 69-yard catch and run for Brandon Marshall who the Titans never covered at the snap.

Screen design

This play was perfectly executed. Powell was again the receiver, this time lining up in the slot and motioning outside before working back in behind his tight end. His tight end sprung Powell free to catch the ball, but it was his offensive linemen who created the tunnel down the middle of the field for an all-too-easy touchdown reception on Third-and-15. Fitzpatrick added 25 yards and another touchdown with this simple throw.

On 12 plays, Fitzpatrick gained 12 touchdowns and 170 yards without an incompletion despite never having to make a difficult read or throw a precise pass.

If you’re relying on Fitzpatrick’s touchdown-to-interception ratio to sell him as a quality starting quarterback, you need to understand the context surrounding those numbers. Fitzpatrick wasn’t elevating his teammates with precise throws where he was able to exploit the defense because of his intellect, he was just another piece in an offense that wasn’t especially reliant on him. A turnover-prone, weak-armed quarterback who has major accuracy issues should never command big money, but especially not in an offense such as Gailey’s with the surrounding talent the Jets have given him.

 

 

 

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On 7/10/2016 at 1:19 PM, AFJF said:

Why does it matter who the WRs are?  Missing any open target by throwing the ball 5-10 yards off target and/or out of bounds is on the QB.

Just happy Mike Mac and Biwles see Geno for what he is.  Benched him 14 weeks in a row, drafted two QBs and handed the starrting job to a guy who isn't even on the roster.

They get it.  That makes me happy.

^^^^kinda puts things in perspective

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On 7/10/2016 at 8:41 AM, Warfish said:

If Macc and Bowles saw it that way, why hasn't Geno been wrapped up for 3/$24M and the offer to Fitz revoked?

What do you think Macc and Bowles see in Geno that you don't, or vice versa, to explain this?

They see a player still on his rookie contract that he has not outplayed... Geno is already wrapped up...and this may be their way of making sure he gets the shot they wanted for him last season before he got his jaw broken...kinda like the offer the Yankees gave Joe Torre that they knew he would never accept...

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4 hours ago, BroadwayJets said:

It's possible to accept that Fitzpatrick is proven to be a better decision maker, while also accepting that he's incredibly limited physically. Bottom line is, he made the decision of where the ball was going pre snap way too often to survive. His interceptions are god-awful. If he was truly making "good" reads out there, he would have maybe seen the Buffalo CB move to the inside of Decker's route before he broke. Instead he made his decision 5 seconds earlier and was going to throw it there anyway.

 

Jets fans are better off reading this article by the same guy:

http://presnapreads.com/2016/03/28/chan-gailey-new-york-jets-dont-need-ryan-fitzpatrick/

 

And when you do read this article, it's also possible to accept that Geno can actually pull off a similar year if he gets the ball out quicker and doesn't try to do too much when a sack is imminent. It's not f*cking black and white (no pun intended) with these two, they both stink, but Gailey is the x factor.

 

 

 

 

lol at this article and at you for suggesting this proves something negative about fitzpatrick

the author sets out to discredit fitz. the best he could find is these 12 td plays out of fitzpatricks 33 total td's.

out of the 12 plays, 9 of them look to be proper reads and well executed plays

so out of 33 td's, the author proves that 3 were bad throws? is that why you suggest we read this article? which by the way was posted quite some time ago and was discussed ad nauseam.

then you suggest that gailey is an x factor. I happen to think gailey is a good coordinator. but what has gailey done in over a decade that makes him an x factor? was it the 2 wins he coordinated his offense to in Kansas city? or was it his run in buffalo which ties directly to the exact qb he had success with last year? considering these are the only 2 stints that you can judge him on in well over a decade, it has to be one of the 2 that considers him an x factor. I could care less what gailey did in a completely different era of football

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2 hours ago, ylekram said:

lol at this article and at you for suggesting this proves something negative about fitzpatrick

the author sets out to discredit fitz. the best he could find is these 12 td plays out of fitzpatricks 33 total td's.

out of the 12 plays, 9 of them look to be proper reads and well executed plays

so out of 33 td's, the author proves that 3 were bad throws? is that why you suggest we read this article? which by the way was posted quite some time ago and was discussed ad nauseam.

then you suggest that gailey is an x factor. I happen to think gailey is a good coordinator. but what has gailey done in over a decade that makes him an x factor? was it the 2 wins he coordinated his offense to in Kansas city? or was it his run in buffalo which ties directly to the exact qb he had success with last year? considering these are the only 2 stints that you can judge him on in well over a decade, it has to be one of the 2 that considers him an x factor. I could care less what gailey did in a completely different era of football

It's well known Gailey is a good coordinator, I would imagine the only success Fitzpatrick has had being under Gailey factors into this debate, no? That, the fact that he simplifies offenses, and that he's our current OC makes him an x factor. I agree that the author pushes towards his narratives, it's why I actually despise Fahey. He wrote the original post, and I thought it would be better to post this article written during the same offseason that goes further in depth. Doesn't matter when it was written while we're talking about the same season. It was only written just before April, that's not "quite some time ago".

 

I don't believe screen passes require good "reads", and neither do pick plays. If you actually watch fitz play, you can see he's worked on timing pretty nicely, so nicely it could cause some fans to believe he's really that much better at making reads than Geno. I'm sure Geno is incapable of turning his head. 

 

He chose those plays as a credit to fitz' surrounding cast, as he mentioned.

 

The point of my post, and his article (which I happen to agree with him, in this instance) is that it's quarterback friendly system. It's not inconceivable that Geno can improve, and play similarly to how Fitzpatrick played this season. When I say improve, I mean getting the ball out quicker (which Fitz did to limit pressure/sacks), protect the football on sacks, and not lose excessive yards on sacks. Geno has him beat on ability. 

 

Let's not forget Geno beat Fitz out last season. When Geno became healthy, we were 4-1. You don't switch QBs at 4-1. (probably a dead horse by now). 

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13 minutes ago, BroadwayJets said:

It's well known Gailey is a good coordinator, I would imagine the only success Fitzpatrick has had being under Gailey factors into this debate, no? That, the fact that he simplifies offenses, and that he's our current OC makes him an x factor. I agree that the author pushes towards his narratives, it's why I actually despise Fahey. He wrote the original post, and I thought it would be better to post this article written during the same offseason that goes further in depth. Doesn't matter when it was written while we're talking about the same season. It was only written just before April, that's not "quite some time ago".

 

I don't believe screen passes require good "reads", and neither do pick plays. If you actually watch fitz play, you can see he's worked on timing pretty nicely, so nicely it could cause some fans to believe he's really that much better at making reads than Geno. I'm sure Geno is incapable of turning his head. 

 

He chose those plays as a credit to fitz' surrounding cast, as he mentioned.

 

The point of my post, and his article (which I happen to agree with him, in this instance) is that it's quarterback friendly system. It's not inconceivable that Geno can improve, and play similarly to how Fitzpatrick played this season. When I say improve, I mean getting the ball out quicker (which Fitz did to limit pressure/sacks), protect the football on sacks, and not lose excessive yards on sacks. Geno has him beat on ability. 

 

Let's not forget Geno beat Fitz out last season. When Geno became healthy, we were 4-1. You don't switch QBs at 4-1. (probably a dead horse by now). 

to use your logic, the jets should just start hackenberg, since he is the perceived future. gailey is such an x factor, he makes qbing look like childs play. he can make bad qb's look good. except for when he cant. I am glad the author and yourself pointed out the façade that is ryan Fitzpatrick to the rest of us dummies. amazing that an offensive coordinator can call plays that turned a bum qb like Fitzpatrick into a franchise record breaker in one season. I can only imagine what gailey could do with an even worse qb in geno because of all the "upside" and all. how in the world did the jets get lucky enough to land such a qb disguiser. the man is a magician OR it could just be fitz is a little better qb than you are giving him credit for, gailey is a good coordinator that calls plays that suite the talent he has(which by the way is what any good coordinator does or he gets fired), the offense worked well together, and that geno has a long way to go to become an average, adequate qb, much in the way that most people view Fitzpatrick. I think I will roll with the latter. and considering the jets brass currently has a $24m contract on the table for fitz, all the while already having geno under contract for a tiny fraction of that, I think the jets brass are rolling with the latter also

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9 hours ago, ylekram said:

to use your logic, the jets should just start hackenberg, since he is the perceived future. gailey is such an x factor, he makes qbing look like childs play. he can make bad qb's look good. except for when he cant. I am glad the author and yourself pointed out the façade that is ryan Fitzpatrick to the rest of us dummies. amazing that an offensive coordinator can call plays that turned a bum qb like Fitzpatrick into a franchise record breaker in one season. I can only imagine what gailey could do with an even worse qb in geno because of all the "upside" and all. how in the world did the jets get lucky enough to land such a qb disguiser. the man is a magician OR it could just be fitz is a little better qb than you are giving him credit for, gailey is a good coordinator that calls plays that suite the talent he has(which by the way is what any good coordinator does or he gets fired), the offense worked well together, and that geno has a long way to go to become an average, adequate qb, much in the way that most people view Fitzpatrick. I think I will roll with the latter. and considering the jets brass currently has a $24m contract on the table for fitz, all the while already having geno under contract for a tiny fraction of that, I think the jets brass are rolling with the latter also

The bold is exactly what happened last season.

 

Quote

gailey is a good coordinator that calls plays that suite the talent he has(which by the way is what any good coordinator does or he gets fired), the offense worked well together

Geno hasn't had the luxury yet. And amazingly the only times Fitzpatrick has looked competent is when Gailey was his coach. Please don't try to argue that Fitzpatrick is a good quarterback. He is not. He is also not the only quarterback that could benefit from Gailey's system, with arguably the best WR tandem in the NFL. Don't tell me Fitz' record breaking (as if 29 TDs was a monstrous feat) was to be expected because of Fitz' presence alone.

I'm sure 2014 Geno would have had slightly better numbers too had Morhinweig not tried to qb sneak it at least once every time we were within 5 yards of scoring.

 

A $24 million dollar contract with $12 guaranteed in the first year over three years total is just a one year $12 million dollar contract. You'd think the Jets would want this good quarterbacking for more than just one year. You'd think a good quarterback could fetch something above $7-8 per when guys like Sam Bradford are making more than double that. The entire league knows he's hot garbage and could only succeed on a team like the Jets because of our supporting cast and our OC. Even the f*cking Broncos with one of the best defenses ever won with AWFUL quarterbacking. To replace that awful quarterbacking, they chose to trade for MARK SANCHEZ over Ryan Fitzpatrick. That's why the Jets haven't budged. They don't see him as a long term solution, only a stopgap to stay competitive while Hack develops.

 

If you think I've been advocating that Geno is better than Fitz, you are mistaken. I said it in my first post that they're both dogsh*t. Similar dogsh*t.

 

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10 hours ago, BroadwayJets said:

It's well known Gailey is a good coordinator, I would imagine the only success Fitzpatrick has had being under Gailey factors into this debate, no? That, the fact that he simplifies offenses, and that he's our current OC makes him an x factor. I agree that the author pushes towards his narratives, it's why I actually despise Fahey. He wrote the original post, and I thought it would be better to post this article written during the same offseason that goes further in depth. Doesn't matter when it was written while we're talking about the same season. It was only written just before April, that's not "quite some time ago".

 

I don't believe screen passes require good "reads", and neither do pick plays. If you actually watch fitz play, you can see he's worked on timing pretty nicely, so nicely it could cause some fans to believe he's really that much better at making reads than Geno. I'm sure Geno is incapable of turning his head. 

 

He chose those plays as a credit to fitz' surrounding cast, as he mentioned.

 

The point of my post, and his article (which I happen to agree with him, in this instance) is that it's quarterback friendly system. It's not inconceivable that Geno can improve, and play similarly to how Fitzpatrick played this season. When I say improve, I mean getting the ball out quicker (which Fitz did to limit pressure/sacks), protect the football on sacks, and not lose excessive yards on sacks. Geno has him beat on ability. 

 

Let's not forget Geno beat Fitz out last season. When Geno became healthy, we were 4-1. You don't switch QBs at 4-1. (probably a dead horse by now). 

pretty much agree with everything but the bolded.  Fitz was rehabbing a broken leg at the time that Geno was #1 on the depth chart.  No way a team would sign an injured FA and move them atop the depth chart especially at the QB position.

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Just now, whodeawhodat said:

pretty much agree with everything but the bolded.  Fitz was rehabbing a broken leg at the time that Geno was #1 on the depth chart.  No way a team would sign an injured FA and move them atop the depth chart especially at the QB position.

They traded for him, and it's conceivable that Fitz may have not seen the field last season for the same reason Geno never did. So, I agree, but it's moot.

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3 minutes ago, BroadwayJets said:

They traded for him, and it's conceivable that Fitz may have not seen the field last season for the same reason Geno never did. So, I agree, but it's moot.

You are correct, it was a trade.

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25 minutes ago, BroadwayJets said:

The bold is exactly what happened last season.

 

Geno hasn't had the luxury yet. And amazingly the only times Fitzpatrick has looked competent is when Gailey was his coach. Please don't try to argue that Fitzpatrick is a good quarterback. He is not. He is also not the only quarterback that could benefit from Gailey's system, with arguably the best WR tandem in the NFL. Don't tell me Fitz' record breaking (as if 29 TDs was a monstrous feat) was to be expected because of Fitz' presence alone.

I'm sure 2014 Geno would have had slightly better numbers too had Morhinweig not tried to qb sneak it at least once every time we were within 5 yards of scoring.

 

A $24 million dollar contract with $12 guaranteed in the first year over three years total is just a one year $12 million dollar contract. You'd think the Jets would want this good quarterbacking for more than just one year. You'd think a good quarterback could fetch something above $7-8 per when guys like Sam Bradford are making more than double that. The entire league knows he's hot garbage and could only succeed on a team like the Jets because of our supporting cast and our OC. Even the f*cking Broncos with one of the best defenses ever won with AWFUL quarterbacking. To replace that awful quarterbacking, they chose to trade for MARK SANCHEZ over Ryan Fitzpatrick. That's why the Jets haven't budged. They don't see him as a long term solution, only a stopgap to stay competitive while Hack develops.

 

If you think I've been advocating that Geno is better than Fitz, you are mistaken. I said it in my first post that they're both dogsh*t. Similar dogsh*t.

 

Fitz has been slightly below average for the last 5 years or so. Around the 20th area. That puts him in the meh category.Solid pro but no upside. GMs want to keep trading him in for what's behind door #2 but it's usually a donkey. Compared to what we've had Since Sanchez he is Joe Montana.   

In no way is Fitz similar to Geno. Polar opposites more like. Geno has the physical skills that Fitz is lacking, and Fitz has the drive, determination, and leadership that Geno wishes someone would show him how to get. 

Last year they were trying to make Geno a leader while Fitz recovered. That punch in the jaw was a perfect example of Geno's demeanor. I'm sure he was sitting down looking at the ground and talking under his breath while IK yelled at him. If he had stood up and looked him in the eye he would have been the starting QB, but he would also be a different person. I'm not absolving IK but it sheds light on the way Geno carries himself. You know Fitz would have been out in front of this problem. 

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1 minute ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Fitz has been slightly below average for the last 5 years or so. Around the 20th area. That puts him in the meh category.Solid pro but no upside. GMs want to keep trading him in for what's behind door #2 but it's usually a donkey. Compared to what we've had Since Sanchez he is Joe Montana.   

In no way is Fitz similar to Geno. Polar opposites more like. Geno has the physical skills that Fitz is lacking, and Fitz has the drive, determination, and leadership that Geno wishes someone would show him how to get. 

Last year they were trying to make Geno a leader while Fitz recovered. That punch in the jaw was a perfect example of Geno's demeanor. I'm sure he was sitting down looking at the ground and talking under his breath while IK yelled at him. If he had stood up and looked him in the eye he would have been the starting QB, but he would also be a different person. I'm not admonishing IK but it sheds light on the way Geno carries himself. You know Fitz would have been out in front of this problem. 

Production-wise in this system they can be similar.

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Just now, BroadwayJets said:

Production-wise in this system they can be similar.

I'll give you that, but in very different fashions. Would be nice to find a QB without a fatal defect.

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On 7/10/2016 at 6:33 PM, AFJF said:

Hope all you like.  FItz is coming back and Geno will probably be a Brown in 2017.

 

Not a Brown.  Hue Jackson and Paul DePodesta, who embrace advanced analytics, are running the show now.  They wouldn't take Geno as their # 3 QB. 

He'll go to Miami to back up Tannehill. 

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