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What advanced stats say about Ryan Fitzpatrick's 2015 season

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not a Brown.  Hue Jackson and Paul DePodesta, who embrace advanced analytics, are running the show now.  They wouldn't take Geno as their # 3 QB. 

see the other thread that proves with advanced analytics that Geno is amazeballs and Fitz is shizz

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19 hours ago, whodeawhodat said:

^^^^kinda puts things in perspective

On paper it does, until you realize that Fitz practically did the same yet had WR's who could turn passes off by 5 yards into touchdowns. The only perspective that I see is that though Macc/Bowles would probably prefer Fitz as the QB the fact that they dont feel like its a better situation to pay Fitz 12+ million per year over whatever Geno is getting this season is a perspective that guys who talk about innaccurate passes also dont talk about. 

I have to wonder about a posters motive when they make it seem like the WR's dont matter when one QB is throwing inaccurate passes by 5 yards, yet praise another QB who had WR's that was able to deal with his inaccurate passes by 5 yards just to make it seem like its the other QB who was the difference maker in the equation.

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On 7/10/2016 at 4:50 PM, Larz said:

bmarsh was the teams MVP by 17 miles last year.  even fitz couldn't believe how much he was bailed out by the beast.  it makes me sad that we finally have wepinz and still have no QB

this is like last off season, arguing against starting the 32nd or 33rd ranked QB in the league

sad face

Well look how awesome we did when we started the 33rd ranked QB last season. Now imagine just how better we'll be when we finally start the 32nd! :D

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14 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

see the other thread that proves with advanced analytics that Geno is amazeballs and Fitz is shizz

I'm sure it does.

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11 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

On paper it does, until you realize that Fitz practically did the same yet had WR's who could turn passes off by 5 yards into touchdowns. The only perspective that I see is that though Macc/Bowles would probably prefer Fitz as the QB the fact that they dont feel like its a better situation to pay Fitz 12+ million per year over whatever Geno is getting this season is a perspective that guys who talk about innaccurate passes also dont talk about. 

I have to wonder about a posters motive when they make it seem like the WR's dont matter when one QB is throwing inaccurate passes by 5 yards, yet praise another QB who had WR's that was able to deal with his inaccurate passes by 5 yards just to make it seem like its the other QB who was the difference maker in the equation.

You guys are still on this?

Stud WRs do this across the league, it's not a unique scenario that benefited only Fitz this past year.

How much of Fitz's overall stats were "padded" by the remarkable plays made by his WRs? Have you factored all of the "should have been" interceptions yet—and thusly any yardage accumulated on drives that continued after those "should have been" interceptions theoretically would have taken place? Then cross-reference those stats with all of the yardage gained on passes where WRs "bailed out" bad Fitz passes.

When you have all of that data, I'd like to see a gap analysis of it for Fitz versus all other QBs who started at least 8 games last year with 2 WRs on the roster that had over 800 yards receiving.

Then, if that study proves that Fitzpatrick had a marked advantage over every other QB with 2 good WRs, you will have proven your point here.

Otherwise, guess what... 

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16 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

On paper it does, until you realize that Fitz practically did the same yet had WR's who could turn passes off by 5 yards into touchdowns. The only perspective that I see is that though Macc/Bowles would probably prefer Fitz as the QB the fact that they dont feel like its a better situation to pay Fitz 12+ million per year over whatever Geno is getting this season is a perspective that guys who talk about innaccurate passes also dont talk about. 

I have to wonder about a posters motive when they make it seem like the WR's dont matter when one QB is throwing inaccurate passes by 5 yards, yet praise another QB who had WR's that was able to deal with his inaccurate passes by 5 yards just to make it seem like its the other QB who was the difference maker in the equation.

You should have a sit down with Macc and Bowles and let them know that... That was what my comment about perspective was pointing towards, how the FO and HC are handling the QB situation, not how I perceive what makes a QB serviceable or hot garbage.  So take it up with MGMT how they cant see how good Geno would be with good WRs.  They obviously agree with you that Kerley was nothing...

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8 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

You guys are still on this?

Stud WRs do this across the league, it's not a unique scenario that benefited only Fitz this past year.

How much of Fitz's overall stats were "padded" by the remarkable plays made by his WRs? Have you factored all of the "should have been" interceptions yet—and thusly any yardage accumulated on drives that continued after those "should have been" interceptions theoretically would have taken place? Then cross-reference those stats with all of the yardage gained on passes where WRs "bailed out" bad Fitz passes.

When you have all of that data, I'd like to see a gap analysis of it for Fitz versus all other QBs who started at least 8 games last year with 2 WRs on the roster that had over 800 yards receiving.

Then, if that study proves that Fitzpatrick had a marked advantage over every other QB with 2 good WRs, you will have proven your point here.

Otherwise, guess what... 

You actually proved it yourself. Just read the bolded. 

 

Your own statement proved that there's a difference between having sh*t WR's and having "Stud WR's that can do this". Since Geno has Stud WR's then there's really not a need to give Fitz "Stud QB" money. 

 

No need to serve up all the other stuff, your own logic showed that you know the difference when you see it. 

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12 hours ago, BroadwayJets said:

The point of my post, and his article (which I happen to agree with him, in this instance) is that it's quarterback friendly system.

The actual point of the article is that Cian Fahey is a ******* dunce who started stanning for Geno in 2013 and hasn't written so much as a single word since then that can be taken seriously.

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Just now, dbatesman said:

The actual point of the article is that Cian Fahey is a ******* dunce who started stanning for Geno in 2013 and hasn't written so much as a single word since then that can be taken seriously.

He only likes black mobile QBs. I don't like him at all, but I agree with what he has to say about Fitz.

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Just now, Villain The Foe said:

You actually proved it yourself. Just read the bolded. 

 

Your own statement proved that there's a difference between having sh*t WR's and having "Stud WR's that can do this". Since Geno has Stud WR's then there's really not a need to give Fitz "Stud QB" money. 

 

No need to serve up all the other stuff, your own logic showed that you know the difference when you see it. 

The data would illustrate what percentage of Fitz's overall production is actually inflated by stud WRs, and therefore gives us appropriate expectations for how much "better" we could expect Geno to be with Decker + Marshall, as opposed to Decker + Harvin/Kerley.

People, including you, keep suggesting that stud WRs would automatigically make Geno better. However, the point being made in my request for data analysis is to measure how much better they made Fitz, and other QBs across the league, to establish a basis for how much better they could theoretically make Geno.

The reality is, there's no way to factor that data, and there's no chance in the world the putz's on this site would do the work anyway. 

My counterpoint is that you, and others, are inflating the degree to which 2 stud WRs will improve the QB play. Meaning, Fitz benefited, like any QB should benefit by having 2 stud WRs, but 2 stud WRs is only going to add completions to imperfect passes. It's not going to improve anything the QB does pre-snap, with ball security, or in going through progressions. 

Long story short, the "2 stud WRs" is another weak as sh*t argument being perpetuated over the past months by insecure men on the internet.

Also, Decker had over 800 yards in 2014. The combination of Kerley and Harvin also accumulated 759 yards receiving, just a hair under the benchmark I used in my proposal for the data pull. So, one could argue—I'm not planning to— that Geno had the basis of 2 good-stud WRs that season.

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3 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

The data would illustrate what percentage of Fitz's overall production is actually inflated by stud WRs, and therefore gives us appropriate expectations for how much "better" we could expect Geno to be with Decker + Marshall, as opposed to Decker + Harvin/Kerley.

People, including you, keep suggesting that stud WRs would automatigically make Geno better. However, the point being made in my request for data analysis is to measure how much better they made Fitz, and other QBs across the league, to establish a basis for how much better they could theoretically make Geno.

The reality is, there's no way to factor that data, and there's no chance in the world the putz's on this site would do the work anyway. 

My counterpoint is that you, and others, are inflating the degree to which 2 stud WRs will improve the QB play. Meaning, Fitz benefited, like any QB should benefit by having 2 stud WRs, but 2 stud WRs is only going to add completions to imperfect passes. It's not going to improve anything the QB does pre-snap, with ball security, or in going through progressions. 

Long story short, the "2 stud WRs" is another weak as sh*t argument being perpetuated over the past months by insecure men on the internet.

Also, Decker had over 800 yards in 2014. The combination of Kerley and Harvin also accumulated 759 yards receiving, just a hair under the benchmark I used in my proposal for the data pull. So, one could argue—I'm not planning to— that Geno had the basis of 2 good-stud WRs that season.

My purpose isnt to illustrate percentages, but to show that there's a difference when you have Stud WR's. The percentages are just part of the territory after that. 

 

I keep suggesting that adding talent would make Geno Better, because I seen the example last year of it making Fitz better.

 

Your opinion of "2 stud WR's being another sh*t argument" is your problem, not mine. 

And no, I wouldnt compare and Injured #1 decker to a healthy #1 Brandon Marshall and a JAG Jeremy Kerley to a healthy #2 Eric Decker, only you would do that. 

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39 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

On paper it does, until you realize that Fitz practically did the same yet had WR's who could turn passes off by 5 yards into touchdowns. The only perspective that I see is that though Macc/Bowles would probably prefer Fitz as the QB the fact that they dont feel like its a better situation to pay Fitz 12+ million per year over whatever Geno is getting this season is a perspective that guys who talk about innaccurate passes also dont talk about. 

I have to wonder about a posters motive when they make it seem like the WR's dont matter when one QB is throwing inaccurate passes by 5 yards, yet praise another QB who had WR's that was able to deal with his inaccurate passes by 5 yards just to make it seem like its the other QB who was the difference maker in the equation.

I actually had someone ask me what the WRs have to so with a QBs accuracy?  It's all on the QB, WRs have nothing to do with a QBs ability to complete passes.  Because, you know, your completion percentage throwing to Marshall & Decker won't be any different that if you were throwing to Hill and Gates.  

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1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

I actually had someone ask me what the WRs have to so with a QBs accuracy?  It's all on the QB, WRs have nothing to do with a QBs ability to complete passes.  Because, you know, your completion percentage throwing to Marshall & Decker won't be any different that if you were throwing to Hill and Gates.  

I just had @Integrity28 say that stud WR's do stud things across the league for their QB's while with the next breath say that mentioning the lack of having stud WR's for QB's is a sh*t argument. 

 

Jetnation.com in a nutshell. lol. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

My purpose isnt illustrate percentages, but to show that there's a difference when you have Stud WR's. The percentages are just part of the territory after that. 

 

I keep suggesting that adding talent would make Geno Better, because I seen the example last year of it making Fitz better.

 

Your opinion of "2 stud WR's being another sh*t argument" is your problem, not mine. 

And no, I wouldnt compare and Injured #1 decker to a healthy #1 Brandon Marshall and a JAG Jeremy Kerley to a healthy #2 Eric Decker, only you would do that. 

The bold is patently false.

If you want to improve how the engine runs in your minivan, you don't buy a BMW and Audi and assume the minivan will just keep up now.

You tune up the minivan or replace it.

In other words, the only way Geno gets better, is by Geno getting better. Brandon Marshall doesn't make him better. Brandon Marshall might help "hide" his badness, as he did at times with Fitz. Ultimately, the problem with Geno was never the weapons. It was him. So, as I've already stated, the combination of Geno plus 2 stud WRs might show some improvement in the fact that they'd help hide some bad plays, as 2 stud WRs can do for other QBs, but the only way Geno sees marked improvement... like the type of improvement that would justify the time you've invested in these arguments... is by improving himself.

Fitz played last year at the same level of competency he played at in Houston the prior season. So you have over-invested in your interpretation of how much Fitz benefited, and thus formed a bad argument based on a inaccurate premise.

I've attached stats from the past 5 seasons. As you can see, Fitz actually had his worst completion percentage in 5 seasons last year... with 2 stud WRs. And, while he ultimately had his best total season with us this past season, you'll notice his passer rating the year before in Houston was better than it was last year with the Jets.... with 2 stud WRs.

So, like I said, you are perpetuating a sh*t argument. 

Screen Shot 2016-07-13 at 10.19.21 AM.png

Sorry, the image doesn't have column labels. The completion percentages are in column 7 from the left, and the passer rating is column 12 from the left.

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Just now, Integrity28 said:

The bold is patently false.

If you want to improve how the engine runs in your minivan, you don't buy a BMW and Audi and assume the minivan will just keep up now.

You tune up the minivan or replace it.

In other words, the only way Geno gets better, is by Geno getting better. Brandon Marshall doesn't make him better. Brandon Marshall might help "hide" his badness, as he did at times with Fitz. Ultimately, the problem with Geno was never the weapons. It was him. So, as I've already stated, the combination of Geno plus 2 stud WRs might show some improvement in the fact that they'd help hide some bad plays, as 2 stud WRs can do for other QBs, but the only way Geno sees marked improvement... like the type of improvement that would justify the time you've invested in these arguments... is by improving himself.

Fitz played last year at the same level of competency he played at in Houston the prior season. So you have over-invested in your interpretation of how much Fitz benefited, and thus formed a bad argument based on a inaccurate premise.

I've attached stats from the past 5 seasons. As you can see, Fitz actually had his worst completion percentage in 5 seasons last year... with 2 stud WRs. And, while he ultimately had his best total season with us this past season, you'll notice his passer rating the year before in Houston was better than it was last year with the Jets.... with 2 stud WRs.

So, like I said, you are perpetuating a sh*t argument. 

Screen Shot 2016-07-13 at 10.19.21 AM.png

Okay. 

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1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

I just had @Integrity28 say that stud WR's do stud things across the league for their QB's while with the next breath say that mentioning the lack of having stud WR's for QB's is a sh*t argument. 

 

Jetnation.com in a nutshell. lol. 

 

Villain in a nutshell:

  1. redundant, bad argument
  2. proven wrong or derp
  3. deflects
  4. goes emo
  5. pretends like he was trolling, but then more emo

So, you want to run the whole gamut today? Or can we just assume 4 and 5 happen now, since we're already at 3?

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Just now, Integrity28 said:

Villain in a nutshell:

  1. redundant, bad argument
  2. proven wrong or derp
  3. deflects
  4. goes emo
  5. pretends like he was trolling, but then more emo

So, you want to run the whole gamut today? Or can we just assume 4 and 5 happen now, since we're already at 3?

Yup! :-)

 

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41 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I just had @Integrity28 say that stud WR's do stud things across the league for their QB's while with the next breath say that mentioning the lack of having stud WR's for QB's is a sh*t argument. 

 

Jetnation.com in a nutshell. lol. 

 

In theory they should.  Problem with that theory is the Jets have either the best or 2nd WR pair in the NFL, depending on who is judging them.  All WR pairs are not the same. 

And when you do get an admission of their contributions you get the Geno talk.  No one is saying different WRs will turn him into Brady. But I would sure like to see him with a HEALTHY Decker playing 16, with Marshall on the other side and others.  Because a hurting Decker with a couple of games with Harvin isn't the same as what we now have.  If he sucks you move on.  

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42 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

In theory they should.  Problem with that theory is the Jets have either the best or 2nd WR pair in the NFL, depending on who is judging them.  All WR pairs are not the same. 

And when you do get an admission of their contributions you get the Geno talk.  No one is saying different WRs will turn him into Brady. But I would sure like to see him with a HEALTHY Decker playing 16, with Marshall on the other side and others.  Because a hurting Decker with a couple of games with Harvin isn't the same as what we now have.  If he sucks you move on.  

Exactly, I'd like to see the same along with seeing his progression from being able to sit and learn to then taking over the team. The problem comes when people request a sh*t load of illustrations yet they themselves can ultimately just show "yearly stats". lol. 

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http://presnapreads.com/2016/03/29/2689/

 

By the same guy. I didn't read the words, judging from the title his is explaining what he considers a bad pass in his stats.

 

I have no idea what he says in this article and I took out the words, just look at the gifs. The gifs say a lot

 

 

Quote

What is an Interceptable Pass? Let Ryan Fitzpatrick Explain

0134112001457570334_filepicker.jpg?resiz

 

INT1

 

INT2

 

INT3

 

INT4

 

INT5

 

INT6


INT7

 

INT8

 

INT9

 

INT10

 

INT11

 

INT12

 

INT13

 

INT14

 

INT15

 

INT16

 

2016-03-29 23_24_00

 

2016-03-29 23_28_55

 

2016-03-29 23_35_29

 

2016-03-29 23_42_00

 

2016-03-29 23_46_43

 

2016-03-29 23_51_36

 

2016-03-29 23_56_55

 

2016-03-30 00_04_40

 

2016-03-30 00_09_50

 

2016-03-30 00_12_09


900

 

2016-03-30 00_18_11

 

2016-03-30 00_41_00

 

2016-03-30 00_48_10

 

 

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1 minute ago, BroadwayJets said:

http://presnapreads.com/2016/03/29/2689/

 

By the same guy. I didn't read the words, judging from the title his is explaining what he considers a bad pass in his stats.

 

I have no idea what he says in this article and I took out the words, just look at the gifs. The gifs say a lot

 

 

 

In order for these gifs to mean anything, you'd have to post every other "interceptable pass" every other QB in the league threw. In other words, it's subjective bullsh*t.

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On 7/9/2016 at 2:57 AM, Jetdawgg said:

The Jets are the only team that Fitz can hold out on. This is a major league embarrassment. The inexperienced FO has really learned some lessons here. Fitz cannot hit the deep throw on a consistent basis. Geno has a better arm. This will be a major factor in the upcoming season.

Learned lessons?  Seemed like they knew this going in (or were willing to risk it because they didn't think Fitz would get what he would demand - and they were correct).

 

 

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Just now, Matt39 said:

In order for these gifs to mean anything, you'd have to post every other "interceptable pass" every other QB in the league threw. In other words, it's subjective bullsh*t.

Correct, which is why I only follow what this guy does is for the gifs he posts. Good quarterbacks refrain throw these throws because they're not deciding when to throw it pre snap majority of the time.

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5 hours ago, BroadwayJets said:

The bold is exactly what happened last season.

 

Geno hasn't had the luxury yet. And amazingly the only times Fitzpatrick has looked competent is when Gailey was his coach. Please don't try to argue that Fitzpatrick is a good quarterback. He is not. He is also not the only quarterback that could benefit from Gailey's system, with arguably the best WR tandem in the NFL. Don't tell me Fitz' record breaking (as if 29 TDs was a monstrous feat) was to be expected because of Fitz' presence alone.

I'm sure 2014 Geno would have had slightly better numbers too had Morhinweig not tried to qb sneak it at least once every time we were within 5 yards of scoring.

 

A $24 million dollar contract with $12 guaranteed in the first year over three years total is just a one year $12 million dollar contract. You'd think the Jets would want this good quarterbacking for more than just one year. You'd think a good quarterback could fetch something above $7-8 per when guys like Sam Bradford are making more than double that. The entire league knows he's hot garbage and could only succeed on a team like the Jets because of our supporting cast and our OC. Even the f*cking Broncos with one of the best defenses ever won with AWFUL quarterbacking. To replace that awful quarterbacking, they chose to trade for MARK SANCHEZ over Ryan Fitzpatrick. That's why the Jets haven't budged. They don't see him as a long term solution, only a stopgap to stay competitive while Hack develops.

 

If you think I've been advocating that Geno is better than Fitz, you are mistaken. I said it in my first post that they're both dogsh*t. Similar dogsh*t.

 

its as if you didn't read a word I posted. typical. way too much garbage to even consider responding to you, but I have time for 1. to the bolded

During his career as an Offensive Coordinator, Mornhinweg's offenses have finished 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 9th, 10th, and 12th in total offense, and regularly highly ranked in big plays.

so in fact, geno did have that luxury. but since the 2013-2014 ny jets offenses sucked to high heaven, it must be that marty mornhiweg sucks and that geno didn't have the luxury of playing under an x factor. and your definition of an x factor is just a good coordinator.

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1 minute ago, ylekram said:

its as if you didn't read a word I posted. typical. way too much garbage to even consider responding to you, but I have time for 1. to the bolded

During his career as an Offensive Coordinator, Mornhinweg's offenses have finished 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 9th, 10th, and 12th in total offense, and regularly highly ranked in big plays.

so in fact, geno did have that luxury. but since the 2013-2014 ny jets offenses sucked to high heaven, it must be that marty mornhiweg sucks and that geno didn't have the luxury of playing under an x factor. and your definition of an x factor is just a good coordinator.

2014: averaged 326 yards/game. Ranked 22nd, while being 5th from last in total points scored.

2013: averaged 318 yards/game. Ranked 25th, while being 4th from last in total points scored.

 

I assume you're using football outsiders or something, otherwise those numbers are made up or you're leaving out his Jets years.

Morhningweig did not do a good job for us, especially in the redzone.

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Just now, BroadwayJets said:

2014: averaged 326 yards/game. Ranked 22nd, while being 5th from last in total points scored.

2013: averaged 318 yards/game. Ranked 25th, while being 4th from last in total points scored.

 

I assume you're using football outsiders or something, otherwise those numbers are made up or you're leaving out his Jets years.

Morhningweig did not do a good job for us, especially in the redzoneg

of course I left out the geno years.

marty mornhinweg without geno-1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 9th, 10, &12th

marty mornhinweg with geno-22nd, 25th

maybe, just maybe it was geno who didn't do a good job for us, not mornhinweg, as the evidence suggests

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2 minutes ago, ylekram said:

of course I left out the geno years.

marty mornhinweg without geno-1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 9th, 10, &12th

marty mornhinweg with geno-22nd, 25th

maybe, just maybe it was geno who didn't do a good job for us, not mornhinweg, as the evidence suggests

are those the years he was an OC? and in Philly everyone knows Andy reid ran those offenses so it's hard to say how good Marty was/is.  he's not an OC today.  I think it was a combo of a few things, Marty bad fit for Geno, Geno not ready and most importantly lack of talent around the QB.

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4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

are those the years he was an OC? and in Philly everyone knows Andy reid ran those offenses so it's hard to say how good Marty was/is.  he's not an OC today.  I think it was a combo of a few things, Marty bad fit for Geno, Geno not ready and most importantly lack of talent around the QB.

the point was that the poster stated that geno never got a chance to work with a good coordinator, an x factor like gailey. I would consider a coordinator that was consistently in the top 10, a good coordinator. up until the day marty had to work with geno as his qb, the entire football world considered him a good coordinator.

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15 minutes ago, ylekram said:

the point was that the poster stated that geno never got a chance to work with a good coordinator, an x factor like gailey. I would consider a coordinator that was consistently in the top 10, a good coordinator. up until the day marty had to work with geno as his qb, the entire football world considered him a good coordinator.

I don't think Marty was bad, I think he was dealt a bad hand.  he was forced to play geno when he wasn't ready and we had no talent around the QB.

 

as far as Marty's rep, he was OC in SF when Mooch ran that O and OC in Philly when Reid ran the O so I am not sure how good of a rep he has as an OC,

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2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Learned lessons?  Seemed like they knew this going in (or were willing to risk it because they didn't think Fitz would get what he would demand - and they were correct).

 

 

Yes. Learned lessons. I have heard them announce that Fitz is the starter. So I am no mind reader.

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52 minutes ago, ylekram said:

of course I left out the geno years.

marty mornhinweg without geno-1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 9th, 10, &12th

marty mornhinweg with geno-22nd, 25th

maybe, just maybe it was geno who didn't do a good job for us, not mornhinweg, as the evidence suggests

Earlier you said that good OCs work to their players' strengths. I couldn't agree more. When you use TD:INT ratios to judge QBs, you're not including that Geno basically wasn't allowed to throw in the redzone. Rex would always choose to run it on first down, then when that failed, the next two plays were either a QB sneak or another run. I would suspect that 45% of our yards in those years came from running the ball.

I never once said Geno was good, but that the difference between Fitz and Geno isn't far off if Geno loses the boneheaded sack plays, and holds onto the damn football. Geno's turnovers without a doubt hampered Morhningweig's overall stat line, just like some of Morhingweig's decisions in the redzone hampered Geno's TD:INT. In Gailey's system, they could have similar production if Geno improves his mental game.

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4 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Exactly, I'd like to see the same along with seeing his progression from being able to sit and learn to then taking over the team. The problem comes when people request a sh*t load of illustrations yet they themselves can ultimately just show "yearly stats". lol. 

Most should see him for what he is, an ok at best QB who's never won squat, had his first season with better than 6 wins, someone who has never made the playoffs.  I'm 11 seasons.  With the chance to fix that he shlts the bed.  I'll say it again.  If Geno won 10 games but sucked as badly as Fitz did against the Bills 2xs, the Pats and against any teams with a decent D they would have called for his head mid season.    Not made excuses by blaming the entire team for loses while crediting Fitz for wins, while shltting on Marshall - Decker.  

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1 hour ago, ylekram said:

the point was that the poster stated that geno never got a chance to work with a good coordinator, an x factor like gailey. I would consider a coordinator that was consistently in the top 10, a good coordinator. up until the day marty had to work with geno as his qb, the entire football world considered him a good coordinator.

Or it's a case of Steve Young, D McNabb, Fitz, A Smith.  Which one doesn't belong?

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2 hours ago, ylekram said:

of course I left out the geno years.

marty mornhinweg without geno-1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 9th, 10, &12th

marty mornhinweg with geno-22nd, 25th

maybe, just maybe it was geno who didn't do a good job for us, not mornhinweg, as the evidence suggests

Or, Marty Mornhinweg under Andy Reid, and Marty Mornhinweg without Andy Reid. 

Andy left him behind, he sucked, and now he's a QB coach.  

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The premise of the OP is pretty funny when you think about it.  

How many times have we as Jets fans said stuff like "when are we going to get a real offense?  I'm so tired of watching other teams play and seeing their quarterbacks take the snap, read the defense and get rid of the ball to an open receiver to keep moving the chains?"

Jets finally get a QB who can read the defense and get rid of the ball quickly to an open receiver.  The result?  Insane fans claim it's proof that he sucks.

LOL 

Edited by AFJF

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