How Mo's Deal Killed Fitz' Deal

[j4jets]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Yes.  But you can also say every person on the teams salary kills Fitz.  My point.  

Not really. It was between Mo n Fitz. One or the other. My point. 

[j4jets]

1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

We drafted a punter, too. 

Doesn't change my point. 

[j4jets]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Sure he would. Then Denver could get back into the bidding...at half the price, of course. 

Nothing ever stopped Denver from a bidding war. He's still a FA. It's in his best interest to keep the Jets interested in him. 

[Doggin94it]

10 hours ago, j4jets said:

We don't know the complete details on Mo's deal yet but you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out a few basic things. His 2016 cap charge is about $10 mil from what I hear. Rest of the 4 years average about $19 mil a year in cap charges. He saved us $5 mil space in 2016. 

2016 Cap:

We are currently at around $8 mil in space after Mo's deal. We are yet to sign Lee n a punter, which would add about $3 mil to the cap. It leaves us $5 mil, most of which will be needed for in-season pickups. 

2017 Cap:

Prior to Mo's deal, we were at around $20 mil in space. Mo is averaging $19 mil a yr in 2017-2020. We also need additional $11 mil for rookie signings, Lee's deal n in season pickups. That's about $31 mil additional for 2017 where we had about $20 mil space. Cap would go up of course but by how much? Your guess is as good as mine. Can we create cap by restructures/releases? Of course. But every release requires a new signing. Every restructure puts strain on future cap.

What About Fitz' Deal?

As I've established, we currently stand at no extra cap space for 2016 or 2017 beyond what is needed right now. A one year deal means we can structure the deal in a way we spread the $12mil he wants over 2016 and 2017. Lets say we release Harris n a couple other starters. First of all, We'll need their replacements. Second, those replacements will cost you $. Lastly, who plays QB in 2017? Hack won't be ready. Petty won't even make the 16 roster with Fitz. Geno would be a FA.

Lets assume we meet in between with Fitz n do a 3 year $30 mil deal.   How do we fit $20 mil of cap in 2016 n 2017 when we can't even fit $12 mil without releasing a few starters n restructures? Is Fitz that good that we can release numerous starters for? I've been saying it all along. It's either Fitz or Mo. Not both. 

Then there's the question of Fitz vs Geno, which requires a few TBs of cyber space to discuss as the picture below suggests. 

This might be the single most ignorant salary cap post of all time, if only because it pretends to be educated, and that's saying something.

First, Wilkerson's deal actually created cap room in 2016.  Second, with a reported 15M signing bonus and 37M two-year cash flow, that leaves 28M in cap room (6M in prorated signing bonus and 22M in additional cash salary/bonus) to be allocated between 2016 and 2017.  That's an average of 14M per year in those two years, so you're off on your 2017 estimate by about 5M.  (Even assuming the Jets gave Mo a low $8M salary year 1, and a high 14M salary year two, you'd still be off by 2M)

Third, looking at the Jets cap charges in 2017 without factoring in extensions (or cuts) for Mangold and Clady (together set to count 19M in cap space for that year, with no dead money if cut), David Harris ($6.5M and 0) and an extension for Brandon Marshall (7.5M and 0), a restructure for Revis (he can be cut for roughly 7M in savings in 2017 but an 8M dead cap hit, which gives Revis leverage, but if he gets to 2018 without a restructure it turns into 9M in savings v. 1.6M in dead cap, which gives the Jets leverage - in other words, both sides can gain from a restructure that guarantees more to Revis in 2018 while lowering his cap cost in 2017) and the outright cut of Breno Giacomini ($4.5M) is kind of pointless.

Other than that, good post.

[The Crusher]

57 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Not really. It was between Mo n Fitz. One or the other. My point. 

What?  Mo is top three in the league at his position.  If the front office had those two as a coin flip them someone should take the coin and poke them in the eye.  

[j4jets]

5 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

They also drafted a punter. They have two punters under contract. This is easy stuff. I didn't read anything else because it's not worth my time if you're going to waste it. It's also evident from what I skimmed you have zero idea how the NFL and contracts work. If players restructure their contracts they don't lose a dime. Do some research and start again. 

Maybe if you read what I posted, you'll get a hint of what I posted, because incase you didn't notice, a restructure doesn't save you a dime either. It just pushes down to the future years. Perhaps you are the one who doesn't know sh*t? A 5th grader can comprehend what I wrote but a self-proclaimed know-it-all poster couldn't. Then again, you're stuck up with the punter debate n Fitzjizz so I don't blame you for not wanting anything to do with anything that's posted against your man. 

Back to the debate of cap restraints. Please elaborate how the Jets can pay Fitz $20-30mil in 2016 and 2017. I would like to see exactly how, not just generalization. Maybe I've missed something all along. If so, I'm sure Mac did too n doesn't know "how the NFL and contracts work" otherwise Fitz would've been signed before the FA. Feel free to tell me we can release a bunch of starters to accommodate a journeyman cuz I've covered all my bases with my OP (besides the punter, ZOMGG!!). 

[j4jets]

5 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

This might be the single most ignorant salary cap post of all time, if only because it pretends to be educated, and that's saying something.

I like how you're trying to outsmart me. I read contracts for a living n so far I've done well in life, so allow me to shred your post to pieces now  

Quote

First, Wilkerson's deal actually created cap room in 2016. 

How is that ANY different from I wrote? 

Quote

Second, with a reported 15M signing bonus and 37M two-year cash flow, that leaves 28M in cap room (6M in prorated signing bonus and 22M in additional cash salary/bonus) to be allocated between 2016 and 2017. 

At the time of my posting, all I was aware of was that Mo's cap charge went down from 15 to 10mil or so n that he saved us $5 mil in 2016, as noted in my OP. Then somewhere along the lines, I mentioned Mo making $19 mil for 2017 (average based on the remaining $76 mil over 4 years). Actual figure as it came out, was $18 mil. I would say that's pretty close to the $19 mil I used in my OP BEFORE the details of the contract had come out.

Quote

That's an average of 14M per year in those two years, so you're off on your 2017 estimate by about 5M.  (Even assuming the Jets gave Mo a low $8M salary year 1, and a high 14M salary year two, you'd still be off by 2M)

Not even sure what you're talking about here. It may have been an ignorant post of mine but it's evident you couldnt keep up with a few numbers I posted so I don't blame you for calling my post ignorant instead.  See my comments above.

Quote

Third, looking at the Jets cap charges in 2017 without factoring in extensions (or cuts) for Mangold and Clady (together set to count 19M in cap space for that year, with no dead money if cut), David Harris ($6.5M and 0) and an extension for Brandon Marshall (7.5M and 0), a restructure for Revis (he can be cut for roughly 7M in savings in 2017 but an 8M dead cap hit, which gives Revis leverage, but if he gets to 2018 without a restructure it turns into 9M in savings v. 1.6M in dead cap, which gives the Jets leverage - in other words, both sides can gain from a restructure that guarantees more to Revis in 2018 while lowering his cap cost in 2017) and the outright cut of Breno Giacomini ($4.5M) is kind of pointless.

Other than that, good post.

By any chance, are you suggesting we cut Revis, Marshall, Mangold, Clady, Harris n Giacomini? Giac, yeah. But others? No one is getting cut. Extensions there may create a few mils for 2017, like I mentioned, but it would push enormous amount of cap towards 2018 n beyond. When I say enormous, I mean 60-70+ mil for 2018 alone on backloaded deals. so where you think this was an ignorant post of mine, it's actually covering the cap management for future years n not just 2016 or 2017, something GMs do all the time. Would you like me to provide you some details of the "60-70+ mil" figure threw out there? 

Lets say you found a way to manage the cap n sign Fitz. Is he worth cutting a few starters n putting the team in 2-3 more cap strapped years, like I mentioned in my OP? 

[j4jets]

4 hours ago, The Crusher said:

What?  Mo is top three in the league at his position.  If the front office had those two as a coin flip them someone should take the coin and poke them in the eye.  

No one mentioned the coin flip. Jets went with the smarter choice after they failed to trade Mo. I said that if Mo gets extended, you can't sign Fitz without releasing a few starters n restructuring a few contracts to cope with his Brady-money demands. If Mo was not to be extended, we probably would've tagged him again next year n trade him for like a 3rd, or let him walk n pick up a 3rd in comp. We weren't going to pay him $19 mil next year while he spent the offseason at home. So without an extension this year, Mo was only going to count towards 2016 cap. The extension changed everything as far as cap is concerned. 

[CrazyCarl40]

1 hour ago, j4jets said:

Maybe if you read what I posted, you'll get a hint of what I posted, because incase you didn't notice, a restructure doesn't save you a dime either. It just pushes down to the future years. Perhaps you are the one who doesn't know sh*t? A 5th grader can comprehend what I wrote but a self-proclaimed know-it-all poster couldn't. Then again, you're stuck up with the punter debate n Fitzjizz so I don't blame you for not wanting anything to do with anything that's posted against your man. 

Back to the debate of cap restraints. Please elaborate how the Jets can pay Fitz $20-30mil in 2016 and 2017. I would like to see exactly how, not just generalization. Maybe I've missed something all along. If so, I'm sure Mac did too n doesn't know "how the NFL and contracts work" otherwise Fitz would've been signed before the FA. Feel free to tell me we can release a bunch of starters to accommodate a journeyman cuz I've covered all my bases with my OP (besides the punter, ZOMGG!!). 

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-jets/

Go here. Read stuff. Get educated on contracts. Be a better fan. 

[Sperm Edwards]

8 hours ago, j4jets said:

Nothing ever stopped Denver from a bidding war. He's still a FA. It's in his best interest to keep the Jets interested in him. 

The Jets' offer stopped them, because it priced them out of the bidding. If that dries up he has to seek the next best one. The Jets rescinding their offer would be known.

I'll be pretty surprised if it happened.

[j4jets]

4 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-jets/

Go here. Read stuff. Get educated on contracts. Be a better fan. 

You're pretty pathetic. 

[whodeawhodat]

21 hours ago, j4jets said:

We don't know the complete details on Mo's deal yet but you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out a few basic things. His 2016 cap charge is about $10 mil from what I hear. Rest of the 4 years average about $19 mil a year in cap charges. He saved us $5 mil space in 2016. 

2016 Cap:

We are currently at around $8 mil in space after Mo's deal. We are yet to sign Lee n a punter, which would add about $3 mil to the cap. It leaves us $5 mil, most of which will be needed for in-season pickups. 

2017 Cap:

Prior to Mo's deal, we were at around $20 mil in space. Mo is averaging $19 mil a yr in 2017-2020. We also need additional $11 mil for rookie signings, Lee's deal n in season pickups. That's about $31 mil additional for 2017 where we had about $20 mil space. Cap would go up of course but by how much? Your guess is as good as mine. Can we create cap by restructures/releases? Of course. But every release requires a new signing. Every restructure puts strain on future cap.

What About Fitz' Deal?

As I've established, we currently stand at no extra cap space for 2016 or 2017 beyond what is needed right now. A one year deal means we can structure the deal in a way we spread the $12mil he wants over 2016 and 2017. Lets say we release Harris n a couple other starters. First of all, We'll need their replacements. Second, those replacements will cost you $. Lastly, who plays QB in 2017? Hack won't be ready. Petty won't even make the 16 roster with Fitz. Geno would be a FA.

Lets assume we meet in between with Fitz n do a 3 year $30 mil deal.   How do we fit $20 mil of cap in 2016 n 2017 when we can't even fit $12 mil without releasing a few starters n restructures? Is Fitz that good that we can release numerous starters for? I've been saying it all along. It's either Fitz or Mo. Not both. 

Then there's the question of Fitz vs Geno, which requires a few TBs of cyber space to discuss as the picture below suggests. 

I think you will be proven wrong within a few weeks max, more like a few days.

[Rangers9]

We don't even know every aspect of the Fitz deal that the Jets reportedly have offered him. It was leaked and not an official statement from either side and did not have exact details of the contract. What we heard was 12-6-6 with 15 guaranteed and with another 12 in incentives. We don't know about the incentives or even the exactitude of the rest of the contract. Is the 15 guaranteed, fully guaranteed? There's different levels of guaranteed money, some just for injuries, etc. And the 12 mil the first year. Does he get that all the first season. Is it a bonus? I've even seen that it's really 10 mil. As for not wanting to give him a one year contract due to cap issues. Of course they can do it if they want to do it. And smartly, too. 

[Banks81]

I hate you for using "n" instead of and ampersand. 

[j4jets]

1 hour ago, Banks81 said:

I hate you for using "n" instead of and ampersand. 

Guns and Roses just doesn't sit well. 

[whodeawhodat]

6 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-jets/

Go here. Read stuff. Get educated on contracts. Be a better fan. 

pretty telling. good stuff

[whodeawhodat]

7 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-jets/

Go here. Read stuff. Get educated on contracts. Be a better fan. 

Juston Burris	$450,000	$137,783	$0	$0	$0	$587,783		$137,783	$450,000
Jarvis Harrison	$525,000	$10,000	$0	$0	$0	$535,000		$10,000	$525,000
Chandler Worthy	$525,000	$5,000	$0	$0	$0	$530,000		$5,000	$525,000
Dion Bailey	$525,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$525,000		$0	$525,000
Taiwan Jones	$525,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$525,000		$0	$525,000
Ronald Martin	$525,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$525,000		$0	$525,000
Rontez Miles	$525,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$525,000		$0	$525,000
Quincy Enunwa	$525,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$525,000		$0	$525,000
Brent Qvale	$525,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$525,000		$0	$525,000
Deon Simon	$525,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$525,000		$0	$525,000
Brandon Shell	$450,000	$58,992	$0	$0	$0	$508,992		$58,992	$450,000
Lac Edwards	$450,000	$18,949	$0	$0	$0	$468,949		$18,949	$450,000
Charone Peake	$450,000	$17,095	$0	$0	$0	$467,095		$17,095	$450,000
Craig Watts	$450,000	$10,000	$0	$0	$0	$460,000		$10,000	$450,000
Dominique Williams	$450,000	$5,000	$0	$0	$0	$455,000		$5,000	$450,000
Freddie Bishop	$450,000	$2,500	$0	$0	$0	$452,500		$2,500	$450,000
Michael Liedtke	$450,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$450,000		$0	$450,000
Jesse Davis	$450,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$450,000		$0	$450,000
Titus Davis	$450,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$450,000		$0	$450,000
Deion Barnes	$450,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$450,000		$0	$450,000
Julian Howsare	$450,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$450,000		$0	$450,000
Kendall James	$450,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$450,000		$0	$450,000
Wes Saxton	$450,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$450,000		$0	$450,000
Kevin Short	$450,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$450,000		$0	$450,000
Darron Lee	$450,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$450,000		$0	$450,000
Robby Anderson	$450,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$450,000		$0	$450,000
Tarow Barney	$450,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$450,000		$0	$450,000
Kyle Friend	$450,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$450,000		$0	$450,000
Tom Hackett	$450,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$450,000		$0	$450,000
Jalin Marshall	$450,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$450,000		$0	$450,000
Ross Martin	$450,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$450,000		$0	$450,000
Helva Matungulu	$450,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$450,000		$0	$450,000
Doug Middleton	$450,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$450,000		$0	$450,000
Julien Obioha	$450,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$450,000		$0	$450,000
Claude Pelon	$450,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$450,000		$0	$450,000
Lawrence Thomas	$450,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$450,000		$0	$450,000
Jason Vander Laan	$450,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$450,000		$0	$450,000
Romar Morris	$450,000	$0	$0	$0	$0	$450,000		$0	$450,000

am i reading this correctly?  If we trimmed our roster to 51 players we would free up $17.775M  with $265k of dead money? Or is that already excluded in the $157M in salaries toward the cap?

[Doggin94it]

7 hours ago, j4jets said:

I like how you're trying to outsmart me. I read contracts for a living n so far I've done well in life, so allow me to shred your post to pieces now  

How is that ANY different from I wrote? 

At the time of my posting, all I was aware of was that Mo's cap charge went down from 15 to 10mil or so n that he saved us $5 mil in 2016, as noted in my OP. Then somewhere along the lines, I mentioned Mo making $19 mil for 2017 (average based on the remaining $76 mil over 4 years). Actual figure as it came out, was $18 mil. I would say that's pretty close to the $19 mil I used in my OP BEFORE the details of the contract had come out.

Not even sure what you're talking about here. It may have been an ignorant post of mine but it's evident you couldnt keep up with a few numbers I posted so I don't blame you for calling my post ignorant instead.  See my comments above.

By any chance, are you suggesting we cut Revis, Marshall, Mangold, Clady, Harris n Giacomini? Giac, yeah. But others? No one is getting cut. Extensions there may create a few mils for 2017, like I mentioned, but it would push enormous amount of cap towards 2018 n beyond. When I say enormous, I mean 60-70+ mil for 2018 alone on backloaded deals. so where you think this was an ignorant post of mine, it's actually covering the cap management for future years n not just 2016 or 2017, something GMs do all the time. Would you like me to provide you some details of the "60-70+ mil" figure threw out there? 

Lets say you found a way to manage the cap n sign Fitz. Is he worth cutting a few starters n putting the team in 2-3 more cap strapped years, like I mentioned in my OP? 

LOL.

First, nice to see Jason came out with Mo's full numbers.  They seem to have shifted too much out of 2016 and into 17 - why do you think that might be?  (Note - it wasn't to "kill the Fitz deal), but even with that shift you were overestimating the cap hit by 1M because you chose to work with "the average based on the remaining 76M over 4 years" instead of the known information about Mo's 2 year cash flow.  So if you work with contracts for a living, I can only assume you pay more attention to detail in your work than you did with your post.

Second, I'm suggesting that none of Revis, Marshall, Mangold, Clady, Harris and Giacomini are likely to be playing for the Jets in 2017 at their current cap numbers.  Mangold will be in the last year of his deal, with a 9M salary and no dead money from cutting him, in a center market where the AAV for the top centers is 8-9M - and, love him though we all do, Mangold is not a "top center" any more.  Given Mangold's age, I'd expect him to sign a 4 year contract in the 6.5M range - similar to the numbers Max Unger got on his last deal.  That's 2.5M in savings on Mangold before you start even thinking about cap and cash flows in that deal and the fact that he'll never see the 4th year of that extension (he'll be 37 years old).  The same goes for Harris, who will be a 33 year old two-down LBer and due 6.5M in the final year of his deal; an extension would likely be in the 4-5M per year range with cap hit in year 1 in the 4M range and a ghost 4th year that exists only for signing bonus proration.  Clady is the likeliest of the contracts to be left alone given his injury history, but that same injury history incentivizes him to take a smaller AAV in exchange for guaranteed money.  Assume in the 7.5-9M range (and again, that's without considering cash and cap structures.  Giacomini is getting cut outright. 

That leaves Marshall and Revis.  They may just leave Marshall's deal alone - he's aging but still productive, and playing for less than market rate already, and he's already said he wants to retire a Jet, so there's no real urgency to extend him before he hits FA.  And Revis is always a tough negotiation.  But he'll be heading into his age 32 year, with $20M and minimal dead cap due him in his age 33 and 34 seasons.  Depending on how he plays this year, he may be willing to shift 2-3M from 2017 to guaranteed 2018 salary, which would make him harder to cut in 2018 (big benefit to him) while giving the Jets cap room in 2017 and only minimally adding to the 2018 cap (whether the Jets keep him or cut him).

In sum, that's somewhere in the area of 15M in cap savings with only minimal additions to the '18 cap (call it 18.5M for Mangold, Harris, and Clady, when the Jets currently don't have a starting C, ILB, or LT on the 2018 roster) + 3M or so for Revis. 

But yeah, tell me all about how doing that would add 60-70M to the 2018 cap.  I am intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Sperm Edwards]

59 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

LOL.

First, nice to see Jason came out with Mo's full numbers.  They seem to have shifted too much out of 2016 and into 17 - why do you think that might be?  (Note - it wasn't to "kill the Fitz deal), but even with that shift you were overestimating the cap hit by 1M because you chose to work with "the average based on the remaining 76M over 4 years" instead of the known information about Mo's 2 year cash flow.  So if you work with contracts for a living, I can only assume you pay more attention to detail in your work than you did with your post.

Second, I'm suggesting that none of Revis, Marshall, Mangold, Clady, Harris and Giacomini are likely to be playing for the Jets in 2017 at their current cap numbers.  Mangold will be in the last year of his deal, with a 9M salary and no dead money from cutting him, in a center market where the AAV for the top centers is 8-9M - and, love him though we all do, Mangold is not a "top center" any more.  Given Mangold's age, I'd expect him to sign a 4 year contract in the 6.5M range - similar to the numbers Max Unger got on his last deal.  That's 2.5M in savings on Mangold before you start even thinking about cap and cash flows in that deal and the fact that he'll never see the 4th year of that extension (he'll be 37 years old).  The same goes for Harris, who will be a 33 year old two-down LBer and due 6.5M in the final year of his deal; an extension would likely be in the 4-5M per year range with cap hit in year 1 in the 4M range and a ghost 4th year that exists only for signing bonus proration.  Clady is the likeliest of the contracts to be left alone given his injury history, but that same injury history incentivizes him to take a smaller AAV in exchange for guaranteed money.  Assume in the 7.5-9M range (and again, that's without considering cash and cap structures.  Giacomini is getting cut outright. 

That leaves Marshall and Revis.  They may just leave Marshall's deal alone - he's aging but still productive, and playing for less than market rate already, and he's already said he wants to retire a Jet, so there's no real urgency to extend him before he hits FA.  And Revis is always a tough negotiation.  But he'll be heading into his age 32 year, with $20M and minimal dead cap due him in his age 33 and 34 seasons.  Depending on how he plays this year, he may be willing to shift 2-3M from 2017 to guaranteed 2018 salary, which would make him harder to cut in 2018 (big benefit to him) while giving the Jets cap room in 2017 and only minimally adding to the 2018 cap (whether the Jets keep him or cut him).

In sum, that's somewhere in the area of 15M in cap savings with only minimal additions to the '18 cap (call it 18.5M for Mangold, Harris, and Clady, when the Jets currently don't have a starting C, ILB, or LT on the 2018 roster) + 3M or so for Revis. 

But yeah, tell me all about how doing that would add 60-70M to the 2018 cap.  I am intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Keep in mind it doesn't matter. If the money is unused this year it will be available to us next year. So Mo's cap number would be higher strictly as a line item, but our spending ceiling would be proportionally higher by the same amount. It's a distinction without a difference and in terms of next year's spending ability the net difference would be zero.

In the end we pay Mo the same amount, and if the "extra" goes unused this year we can still spend it next year. It's just flexibility with no penalty, so there would be that much less instant restructuring needed if (when) Fitzpatrick finally signs. So it's not the backloading of Mo's contract that costs us spending ability next year; it's the signing of Fitzpatrick.

[Doggin94it]

9 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Keep in mind it doesn't matter. If the money is unused this year it will be available to us next year. So Mo's cap number would be higher strictly as a line item, but our spending ceiling would be proportionally higher by the same amount. It's a distinction without a difference and in terms of next year's spending ability the net difference would be zero.

In the end we pay Mo the same amount, and if the "extra" goes unused this year we can still spend it next year. It's just flexibility with no penalty, so there would be that much less instant restructuring needed if (when) Fitzpatrick finally signs. So it's not the backloading of Mo's contract that costs us spending ability next year; it's the signing of Fitzpatrick.

Yes - of course, the concern is that if you have it, you may use it unwisely.  But yes, any unused space will roll over

[jason423]

I dont think the Mo deal did anything for or against the Fitzpatrick contract. They gave themselves the room to sign him but not so much room that they can ask for anything excessive. When you get into the Jets 2017 cap they have so much flexibility that its not a real concern. If the Jets really planned on having a majority of these players back on the team in 2017 they would have restructured them this year to have the cap room for Fitzpatrick and other free agents. The Jets are being very cautious with their approach to their contracts this year because if they went all in and the team stunk they are locked into an old and bad team in 2017.  Instead they will just ride the season out and make that decision about 2017 in 2017.  If thing go well this year, with or without Fitzpatrick, they can extend these guys for lots of cap room. If they go bad they slice and dice the roster apart and move on from  the Mangold's and Harris'  of the team. 

The Fitzpatrick offer has a lot to do with having flexibility. The Jets know there is a good chance hell be a backup in 2017 They want his pay to reflect that possibility.  Fitz has no real financial end game. If the Jets really did offer him $12M thats probably $8M more than ayone else would give him. They also know from watching him last year and getting to know him that he wants to play. Hes never been like a Chad Henne or Matt Moore that could probably have found a team to give them a shot but didnt take it. They were content in that role. The Jets are the only team giving him that starting opportunity from day 1. 

[j4jets]

3 hours ago, jason423 said:

I dont think the Mo deal did anything for or against the Fitzpatrick contract. They gave themselves the room to sign him but not so much room that they can ask for anything excessive. When you get into the Jets 2017 cap they have so much flexibility that its not a real concern. If the Jets really planned on having a majority of these players back on the team in 2017 they would have restructured them this year to have the cap room for Fitzpatrick and other free agents. The Jets are being very cautious with their approach to their contracts this year because if they went all in and the team stunk they are locked into an old and bad team in 2017.  Instead they will just ride the season out and make that decision about 2017 in 2017.  If thing go well this year, with or without Fitzpatrick, they can extend these guys for lots of cap room. If they go bad they slice and dice the roster apart and move on from  the Mangold's and Harris'  of the team. 

The Fitzpatrick offer has a lot to do with having flexibility. The Jets know there is a good chance hell be a backup in 2017 They want his pay to reflect that possibility.  Fitz has no real financial end game. If the Jets really did offer him $12M thats probably $8M more than ayone else would give him. They also know from watching him last year and getting to know him that he wants to play. Hes never been like a Chad Henne or Matt Moore that could probably have found a team to give them a shot but didnt take it. They were content in that role. The Jets are the only team giving him that starting opportunity from day 1. 

Precisely my point. A Fitz deal this year will require at least one restructure to accommodate atleast $5-6 mil in cap charge (3yrs 9 mil bonus, 3mil base). They'll need another $9mil of space in 2017 for him in a year we essentially will have none as of right now. So that flexibility now becomes a requirement. And that's assuming he takes the 3 year 24 mil rumored deal.

Now it's up to Mac to decide whether a journeyman QB that no one is willing to pay more than $4-6 mil, like you said, is worth paying $18mil in 2016 and 2017 and lose a lot of the flexibility? Signing Mo to an extension took up $19mil of 2017 space where he probably would've been tagged Or signed on a low first year salary charge deal. so Mo's deal is playing a major role right now. 

Creating cap space is a piece of cake. Justifying it is another story n I don't see the justification of using $18+ mil from 2017s cap, essentially, on a QB no other team has shown any interest in since April. I valued him around $6 mil max, not the Brady-money he's asking for. 

[Smashmouth]

2 hours ago, j4jets said:

Precisely my point. A Fitz deal this year will require at least one restructure to accommodate atleast $5-6 mil in cap charge (3yrs 9 mil bonus, 3mil base). They'll need another $9mil of space in 2017 for him in a year we essentially will have none as of right now. So that flexibility now becomes a requirement. And that's assuming he takes the 3 year 24 mil rumored deal.

Now it's up to Mac to decide whether a journeyman QB that no one is willing to pay more than $4-6 mil, like you said, is worth paying $18mil in 2016 and 2017 and lose a lot of the flexibility? Signing Mo to an extension took up $19mil of 2017 space where he probably would've been tagged Or signed on a low first year salary charge deal. so Mo's deal is playing a major role right now. 

Creating cap space is a piece of cake. Justifying it is another story n I don't see the justification of using $18+ mil from 2017s cap, essentially, on a QB no other team has shown any interest in since April. I valued him around $6 mil max, not the Brady-money he's asking for. 

This negotiation has nothing at all to do what other teams think of Fitz this is strictly between the Jets and Fitz and his value lies there. Its about what  the Jets think of him and the rest of the QB's on their roster and that this team is built to win now before we go into rebuild mode.

We have 2 QB's that are presumably not ready (Petty Hack) and one other that sucks (Geno) so you see thats where Fitz value is. No one in this negotiation gives a flying **** what other teams think because you do not sign a 33 year old QB for 12 million dollars per on another team, with another system, with different players and hope it all works out. That's why Fitz  does not have the value other teams may be looking for but that's not the case with the Jets since he's already proven to play very well with this team and its system. That and the fact I don't think anyone saw this stand off coming, since both the Jets and Fitz made it very clear he would be back and sign a deal with the Jets. This is not a typical situation for QB's in the NFL and not one bit of it surprises me at all knowing the Jets current situation and the signings of players chosen to WIN NOW. As a GM you don't take the chance of putting that on Geno's shoulders

[Sperm Edwards]

9 hours ago, jason423 said:

I dont think the Mo deal did anything for or against the Fitzpatrick contract. They gave themselves the room to sign him but not so much room that they can ask for anything excessive. When you get into the Jets 2017 cap they have so much flexibility that its not a real concern. If the Jets really planned on having a majority of these players back on the team in 2017 they would have restructured them this year to have the cap room for Fitzpatrick and other free agents. The Jets are being very cautious with their approach to their contracts this year because if they went all in and the team stunk they are locked into an old and bad team in 2017.  Instead they will just ride the season out and make that decision about 2017 in 2017.  If thing go well this year, with or without Fitzpatrick, they can extend these guys for lots of cap room. If they go bad they slice and dice the roster apart and move on from  the Mangold's and Harris'  of the team. 

The Fitzpatrick offer has a lot to do with having flexibility. The Jets know there is a good chance hell be a backup in 2017 They want his pay to reflect that possibility.  Fitz has no real financial end game. If the Jets really did offer him $12M thats probably $8M more than ayone else would give him. They also know from watching him last year and getting to know him that he wants to play. Hes never been like a Chad Henne or Matt Moore that could probably have found a team to give them a shot but didnt take it. They were content in that role. The Jets are the only team giving him that starting opportunity from day 1. 

They definitely have a lot of flexibility in 2017, largely because they have so much room in 2018 (not counting new 2017-2018 contracts, though). 

On the other hand if they sign Fitz, and if Clady plays a full season, he has a $1.5M incentive (presumably NLTBE based on 2015, so it would hit 2017), which would put them at $170M without Fitz. Then he has another $3M escalator of next year and $2.5M of it's due in Feb if they exercise the year 2 option. So while your chart understandably doesn't default to NLTBE incentives/escalators being hit, that extra $4.5M is nevertheless in there, so his cap # is more like $15M than $10.5M until/unless something's done.

Your Jets page (obviously) doesn't include D.Lee's number (figure $2.25M give or take) or all of next year's rookies since there are no numbers to fill in yet.

Sure they could just not exercise the option to save that $13M, but then they're without a LT. Throw in the needed space Breno's $4.5M would clear and now that's the other bookend. Breno's departure would surely be with the idea that Shell or someone else on the '16 roster, which would save $ but is less than ideal if there's also a new LT coming in (particularly if that's what we do with our 1st round pick). Could leave the team with a pretty green pair of tackles. I think they go that route at RT and extend (redo) Clady to clear up a bunch, because starting a 1st year guy at RT makes it unattractive to also draft (and start) a LT. 

Unless he's awesome this year, or youngsters aren't yet pulling their weight, Harris could be on the bubble to keep his $6.5M job on a team that wants to get faster in the middle. Too early to tell. Maybe they just let it play out if they can find enough room elsewhere. Would depend on who else they shuffle around and who is available and desirable in FA; basically how badly they need his $6.5M. 

Richardson could be traded & clear his $8M. Then again, if the pick we'd get is worthwhile it means he's played really well, in which case the team won't want to let him go. Way too early to call that one today.

Then there's also Jarvis Jenkins (I'll wait until I see him perform to be impressed by this signing, which has already cost us a 2017 draw pick since he was a full UFA). Jets hold a team option for him at $2.5M, right? I think they only picked him up because Maccagnan figured he'd be able to trade Mo by draft day. I think they keep him only if they trade Richardson, and maybe not even then, depending on how valued he is this year.

Decker, Marshall, Mangold...the latter 2 would be in line for extensions anyway, and given their respective ages they shouldn't be killers (on top of lowering the immediate '17 numbers). Decker is young enough to toss an extra year (maybe 2) onto it, though he may not want to himself since he'd then next hit FA in his mid-30s instead of his early 30s. Regardless, they can certainly push some $ of his from '17 to '18 guarantees, even without adding any new money.

Revis...whatever. If they are sure they'll want to keep him at corner in 2018 they could move some. I'm just wary of doing that with him, only to see him hold out because only $10M of it is "new" money. Personally I leave this one alone and if he holds out at age 33, he's welcome to do so at that time.

Carpenter they just redid already so that well's pretty much been tapped.

Skrine could save a little, but it would make his '18 number higher than they may like if he's relegated back to slot-only duty. Or if he's a big letdown this year they could just let him go altogether (and designate as a post-June cut at that, since he's got 2 yrs left).

Folk is always a candidate. If he's accurate/reliable again this year I'm personally not in favor of saving $1-2M on a player who affects so many game outcomes, but still he's a kicker with a $3M salary and 2017 is his last contact year. Guess they could extend him as well if they still like him, but how much space is that really going to clear -- a million? Meh.

On the flip side, Pryor will be entering his last year. Based on his short history, I think Maccagnan just lets that one play out, exercise the option for 2018, then try to bang out an extension between 2/18 and 2/19 when the team has less leverage (but also incurs less risk along the way).

Geno will be a FA in '17. Unless he finishes the year as the starter and is doing more than merely not-as-bad-as-he-was, I don't see him returning even in a backup capacity.

So there's a lot they can do, but there isn't going to be a lot of room to add more than one starter-level FA unless they really slash and burn, in which case the new FA is just replacing the old one they cut (e.g. a different veteran LT instead of Clady).

[j4jets]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

They definitely have a lot of flexibility in 2017, largely because they have so much room in 2018 (not counting new 2017-2018 contracts, though). 

On the other hand if they sign Fitz, and if Clady plays a full season, he has a $1.5M incentive (presumably NLTBE based on 2015, so it would hit 2017), which would put them at $170M without Fitz. Then he has another $3M escalator of next year and $2.5M of it's due in Feb if they exercise the year 2 option. So while your chart understandably doesn't default to NLTBE incentives/escalators being hit, that extra $4.5M is nevertheless in there, so his cap # is more like $15M than $10.5M until/unless something's done.

Your Jets page (obviously) doesn't include D.Lee's number (figure $2.25M give or take) or all of next year's rookies since there are no numbers to fill in yet.

Sure they could just not exercise the option to save that $13M, but then they're without a LT. Throw in the needed space Breno's $4.5M would clear and now that's the other bookend. Breno's departure would surely be with the idea that Shell or someone else on the '16 roster, which would save $ but is less than ideal if there's also a new LT coming in (particularly if that's what we do with our 1st round pick). Could leave the team with a pretty green pair of tackles. I think they go that route at RT and extend (redo) Clady to clear up a bunch, because starting a 1st year guy at RT makes it unattractive to also draft (and start) a LT. 

Unless he's awesome this year, or youngsters aren't yet pulling their weight, Harris could be on the bubble to keep his $6.5M job on a team that wants to get faster in the middle. Too early to tell. Maybe they just let it play out if they can find enough room elsewhere. Would depend on who else they shuffle around and who is available and desirable in FA; basically how badly they need his $6.5M. 

Richardson could be traded & clear his $8M. Then again, if the pick we'd get is worthwhile it means he's played really well, in which case the team won't want to let him go. Way too early to call that one today.

Then there's also Jarvis Jenkins (I'll wait until I see him perform to be impressed by this signing, which has already cost us a 2017 draw pick since he was a full UFA). Jets hold a team option for him at $2.5M, right? I think they only picked him up because Maccagnan figured he'd be able to trade Mo by draft day. I think they keep him only if they trade Richardson, and maybe not even then, depending on how valued he is this year.

Decker, Marshall, Mangold...the latter 2 would be in line for extensions anyway, and given their respective ages they shouldn't be killers (on top of lowering the immediate '17 numbers). Decker is young enough to toss an extra year (maybe 2) onto it, though he may not want to himself since he'd then next hit FA in his mid-30s instead of his early 30s. Regardless, they can certainly push some $ of his from '17 to '18 guarantees, even without adding any new money.

Revis...whatever. If they are sure they'll want to keep him at corner in 2018 they could move some. I'm just wary of doing that with him, only to see him hold out because only $10M of it is "new" money. Personally I leave this one alone and if he holds out at age 33, he's welcome to do so at that time.

Carpenter they just redid already so that well's pretty much been tapped.

Skrine could save a little, but it would make his '18 number higher than they may like if he's relegated back to slot-only duty. Or if he's a big letdown this year they could just let him go altogether (and designate as a post-June cut at that, since he's got 2 yrs left).

Folk is always a candidate. If he's accurate/reliable again this year I'm personally not in favor of saving $1-2M on a player who affects so many game outcomes, but still he's a kicker with a $3M salary and 2017 is his last contact year. Guess they could extend him as well if they still like him, but how much space is that really going to clear -- a million? Meh.

On the flip side, Pryor will be entering his last year. Based on his short history, I think Maccagnan just lets that one play out, exercise the option for 2018, then try to bang out an extension between 2/18 and 2/19 when the team has less leverage (but also incurs less risk along the way).

Geno will be a FA in '17. Unless he finishes the year as the starter and is doing more than merely not-as-bad-as-he-was, I don't see him returning even in a backup capacity.

So there's a lot they can do, but there isn't going to be a lot of room to add more than one starter-level FA unless they really slash and burn, in which case the new FA is just replacing the old one they cut (e.g. a different veteran LT instead of Clady).

And here I am thinking I post a ton of words. 

[j4jets]

7 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

This negotiation has nothing at all to do what other teams think of Fitz this is strictly between the Jets and Fitz and his value lies there. Its about what  the Jets think of him and the rest of the QB's on their roster and that this team is built to win now before we go into rebuild mode.

The market dictates ones worth. Take Denver for example. They had no QB on the roster. Your theory suggests they should've gone all in with Fitz since he was the top FA QB. They chose to trade for a QB who has won playoff games and cost one third of what Fitz wants. 

Quote

We have 2 QB's that are presumably not ready (Petty Hack) and one other that sucks (Geno) so you see thats where Fitz value is. No one in this negotiation gives a flying **** what other teams think because you do not sign a 33 year old QB for 12 million dollars per on another team, with another system, with different players and hope it all works out.

Worked out pretty good for the Broncos, coincidentally. There's no comparison between a FHOF QB n Fitz of course but a QB who thinks he worth $12mil goes unsigned when there were more than enough teams that needed a QB decided to pass on him tells you his demands are unreal. Jets can sit back n tell him "sh*tzpatrick, we are going to pay you $6mil in 2016 n that's it. Come knock on our door when you're ready" and Fitz won't be able to find another suitor willing to pay him more. He'll sign a wk into the season when nobody wants him even after the obligatory 3-4 season ending QB injuries happen, since, like you mentioned, no one wants a 33 year old journeyman QB to run/learn a new system in the middle of the season AND pay $12 mil.

Quote

That's why Fitz  does not have the value other teams may be looking for but that's not the case with the Jets since he's already proven to play very well with this team and its system.

If other teams aren't willing to pay Fitz $6mil, why would Jets be willing to pay him $12 mil? I don't agree with that thought process. He couldn't get the job done against the weakest schedule in the league and against the weakest Passing Ds in the league, how would he do against an average strength schedule? He peaked because of the circumstances (schedule, passing Ds, best WR duo, QB friendly system etc), not his own outstanding abilities (he was a 6 win max QB until last year n was dumped by 3 teams in 3 years for a reason). 

Quote

That and the fact I don't think anyone saw this stand off coming, since both the Jets and Fitz made it very clear he would be back and sign a deal with the Jets. This is not a typical situation for QB's in the NFL and not one bit of it surprises me at all knowing the Jets current situation and the signings of players chosen to WIN NOW. As a GM you don't take the chance of putting that on Geno's shoulders

You also don't go all in with a QB that is extremely limited. If it was an 'all-in' year, Fitz would've never hit the FA. We would've restructured a few deals to pick some good FAs if we were a win now team. 

And as a GM, you pay a player what the market dictates for him. You don't go to a grocery store n pay $20 for a gallon of milk just because your kids love cereals. Now if it was the last bottle of milk in the town n there were 7 other people wanting to buy it, I could understand the need to pay $20. Fitz is sitting on the shelf, priced at $12 mil n no one even wants to bother looking into it. 

[Smashmouth]

2 hours ago, j4jets said:

The market dictates ones worth. Take Denver for example. They had no QB on the roster. Your theory suggests they should've gone all in with Fitz since he was the top FA QB. They chose to trade for a QB who has won playoff games and cost one third of what Fitz wants. 

In this case the Market DOES NOT Dictate ones worth or the Jets would have never offered 12 mil in the first place . Fitz has value to the Jets because he played well here and proved he can play well in THIS system, with THESE Players. Pretty much everyone knows that except Jets fans like yourself. If this was an all out rebuilding football team Fitz would make no sense at all because by the time this team was ready to compete he would be 36 or 37 years old. Macc did not spend millions of dollars on post 30 year old players because its rebuilding, Macc spent the money because this team is ready to win now and also because he had too. This team is good enough to compete for a SB with the chance of an elite defense that gained speed at the LB position and added some dynamic players on offense going into its second year in Gaileys offense. If you think Macc wants to trust that on Geno ******* Smith you're crazy.  The fans, the Owner, and pretty much all of the media know the Jets need to get the Fitz deal done. If Fitz fails it won't come down hard on Macc because he did what he was supposed to do with a player that excelled in THIS system. If Macc rolls the dice over a few million dollars and goes with Geno Smith he's putting himself on the line and with Geno's past escapades both on and off the field and in the locker room you would have to be nuts to base that decision on a guy playing in shorts and what amounts  to two hand touch in OTA's and Mini camp.

Worked out pretty good for the Broncos, coincidentally. There's no comparison between a FHOF QB n Fitz of course but a QB who thinks he worth $12mil goes unsigned when there were more than enough teams that needed a QB decided to pass on him tells you his demands are unreal. Jets can sit back n tell him "sh*tzpatrick, we are going to pay you $6mil in 2016 n that's it. Come knock on our door when you're ready" and Fitz won't be able to find another suitor willing to pay him more. He'll sign a wk into the season when nobody wants him even after the obligatory 3-4 season ending QB injuries happen, since, like you mentioned, no one wants a 33 year old journeyman QB to run/learn a new system in the middle of the season AND pay $12 mil.

Peyton Manning was a very different situation he went to a potential SB ready team and was asked to basically take over that offense so in that case its certainly much different than going to another system. Funny how when Kubiak came to town and implemented his system Mannings numbers fell off a cliff after throwing 94 Td's the previous 2 years. Kubiak went to a more conservative approach with a great defense and the numbers showed it to be a good move in the end as the defense got hot and stepped up.

If other teams aren't willing to pay Fitz $6mil, why would Jets be willing to pay him $12 mil? I don't agree with that thought process. He couldn't get the job done against the weakest schedule in the league and against the weakest Passing Ds in the league, how would he do against an average strength schedule? He peaked because of the circumstances (schedule, passing Ds, best WR duo, QB friendly system etc), not his own outstanding abilities (he was a 6 win max QB until last year n was dumped by 3 teams in 3 years for a reason). 

What do you mean other teams aren't willing to pay Fitz 6 mil ?? How in the hell could you possibly know that ? In the case of teams offering Fitz 6 mil they would have been promptly turned down and I'm pretty sure Fitz agent would not have alluded to any discussions he may have had concerning that ridiculous offer. Another thing Jets fans refuse to take into consideration is the fact Fitz never played for a good team his entire career when he finally did with the Jets and had years of experience under his belt he performed well whats so hard to understand about that ? Alsdo if the Jets consider Fitz a starter FOR TEHM then what the market dictates is a range of 12 to 25 mil that's the going rate for a starting QB. You don't insult a guy who played well for you by offering a contract that pays back up money the last 2 years of the contract. You simply offer 12 mil or even 10 mil x 3 years and if Fitz sh*ts the bed this up coming season you cut him and move on to rebuild. Its really that simple. Whether or not you think Fitz is a good fit is irrelevant because apparently the Jets do and they will get this deal done.

You also don't go all in with a QB that is extremely limited. If it was an 'all-in' year, Fitz would've never hit the FA. We would've restructured a few deals to pick some good FAs if we were a win now team.

I didn't know QB's who throw for 3900 yards and 31 TD's were extremely limited. That's a really stupid statement. Fitz makes all the throws and this myth that he has the weakest arm in the NFL is getting old. The only Issue Fitz had was with Devin Smith a player who he had very limited time to work with also a player who is not a very good receiver from what I've seen. He can't adjust well to the ball in the air, He drops balls he should catch and he excelled in college because he was running wide open all over the field. Hes just not very good at this stage. Everyone points to that bad throw to Marshall when he came back to make a great catch but they never point to all the damn good throws Fitz made in the redzone. He was one of the best redzone QB's in the NFL but you don't hear that either. Youi don't hear about his timely running or his pocket presence or his low fumble rate either. All things we have not seen here is over a decade

Also the Jets didn't have to restructure deals to pick up Khiry Robinson and Matt Forte Players Fitz did not have the luxery of playing with last year. Fitz had no check down options for most of the year and he had no TE's I would say he did pretty well having to force the ball to 2 WR's for most of the year. With that being said he played well in that scenario and will only get better now not having to ALWAYS force the ball to his Wideouts with a healthy Powell and Forte. This offense with Fitz at the helm performed better than it has in the last 18 years and wile the WR's were a big part of that Fitz certainly was as well.   

And as a GM, you pay a player what the market dictates for him. You don't go to a grocery store n pay $20 for a gallon of milk just because your kids love cereals. Now if it was the last bottle of milk in the town n there were 7 other people wanting to buy it, I could understand the need to pay $20. Fitz is sitting on the shelf, priced at $12 mil n no one even wants to bother looking into it. 

As a GM part of the process is paying a player what the market dictates but that does not always apply to every situation especially when it comes to the QB position.

 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

3 hours ago, j4jets said:

And here I am thinking I post a ton of words. 

Fitz' isn't a word.

[j4jets]

41 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Fitz' isn't a word.

Ok dude. 

[j4jets]

8 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

 

Dude, your post is borderline porn commentary. Too much Fitzjizz.

[Smashmouth]

3 hours ago, j4jets said:

Dude, your post is borderline porn commentary. Too much Fitzjizz.

j4 I think the guy is a good solid QB in the current scenario and with added weapons and getting the option of a check down he should Improve. So if he can Improve on last years numbers would you frown upon that ? or would you rather watch Geno fumble through the season ?

If this were truly a rebuilding team I would say lets start another QB maybe Petty or even Hackenberg but its not and signing Fitz now is the only logical move Macc can make without putting himself under the gun in a big way based on the way he has built this current roster

[Mainejet]

On ‎7‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 8:04 PM, Rangers9 said:

Hopefully Mac has good survival instincts. The sole reason for years 2 and 3. But if Fitz doesn't buy in (and why should he) then he's putting his ass on the line even with the support of the owner. As soon as the heat is turned on he'll be abandoned very fast. We've seen it before. That is if he still wants to play sheriff. He didn't with Wilk now did he. Do you really think that Wilk would have sat out the season and left 16 mil on the table. 

Mo not signing was never in play. Even if Mo hadn't signed a long term deal, he would have ultimately signed the franchise tender. Either way Mo would never have sat out. Although I love what Fitz did for the offense last season, make no mistake about it, he should NOT consider himself to be anywhere near how important Mo is. Mo is 26 and at the top of his game. You can build your defense around him. Fitz, on the other hand, has never been anything better than a journeyman up until last season. Based on last season, and last season solely, he is considered to be a great stop gap. He's the guy that we can use UNTIL we find that ever elusive franchise QB. However, Fitz days are numbered as our QB. We cannot think we'll have Fitz putting up 35 touchdowns and 10 interceptions for the next 10 seasons. Fitz is 33 and I figure based on his reckless style that he'll be in the league maybe another 5 seasons at the most and certainly not at the kind of production he put out in 2015.

But I will tell you right now, and I have nothing to point to as proof, just a really good intuition, that if Mac goes with Geno, dumps Fitz, and Geno starts being the normal idiot he has always been with the football? Mac would essentially be putting his job on the line. If this guy wants to last in NY, he's better get Fitz to sign. That's the ONLY solution to this rather precarious position he finds himself in.

[Rangers9]

18 minutes ago, Mainejet said:

Mo not signing was never in play. Even if Mo hadn't signed a long term deal, he would have ultimately signed the franchise tender. Either way Mo would never have sat out. Although I love what Fitz did for the offense last season, make no mistake about it, he should NOT consider himself to be anywhere near how important Mo is. Mo is 26 and at the top of his game. You can build your defense around him. Fitz, on the other hand, has never been anything better than a journeyman up until last season. Based on last season, and last season solely, he is considered to be a great stop gap. He's the guy that we can use UNTIL we find that ever elusive franchise QB. However, Fitz days are numbered as our QB. We cannot think we'll have Fitz putting up 35 touchdowns and 10 interceptions for the next 10 seasons. Fitz is 33 and I figure based on his reckless style that he'll be in the league maybe another 5 seasons at the most and certainly not at the kind of production he put out in 2015.

But I will tell you right now, and I have nothing to point to as proof, just a really good intuition, that if Mac goes with Geno, dumps Fitz, and Geno starts being the normal idiot he has always been with the football? Mac would essentially be putting his job on the line. If this guy wants to last in NY, he's better get Fitz to sign. That's the ONLY solution to this rather precarious position he finds himself in.

Sure Mo is a better player than Fitz. But who was more valuable to the Jets last season. It has to be a Qb who put up those stats. And meshed with the offense. We saw a huge improvement in the O last season. Fitz haters gave him no credit for that but football fans know everything goes through the Qb. He handles the ball, calls the plays, reads the defense, calls audibles etc. Also he's the leader and there was great rapport among players last season even the receivers didn't complain and that's very unusual. It's stupid not to bring him back and his price is not crazy. And probably he will reduce it rather than go to another team where he has to start over again.

[j4jets]

4 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

j4 I think the guy is a good solid QB in the current scenario and with added weapons and getting the option of a check down he should Improve. So if he can Improve on last years numbers would you frown upon that ? or would you rather watch Geno fumble through the season ?

If he can improve on last year's numbers, I'm all for it of course. But I don't agree him being a solid QB. I also don't see how he'll improve on his numbers simply because of a 30 something RB (he'll be 31 in December). He faced some really bad passing Ds last year that were mostly further depleted by key injuries in the games we played them. If he's the QB, I'll support n criticize him like any other Jet on the team n if he puts up anything similar to what he did last year, I'll be the first one in the line to eat some crow. Fair enough?

4 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

If this were truly a rebuilding team I would say lets start another QB maybe Petty or even Hackenberg but its not and signing Fitz now is the only logical move Macc can make without putting himself under the gun in a big way based on the way he has built this current roster

When you speak of having "added weapons" for Fitz, I use that same ideology n base my opinion on it for Geno as well. In Geno's case, he had Decker for one year and all other WRs are basically out of the game or irrelevant right now n it's only been one year in between. He was solid when he had a healthy Decker n Harvin. I expect him to be much better with Decker, Marshall n Forte plus two years of learning curve. Is that unreasonable?

[Mainejet]

7 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Sure Mo is a better player than Fitz. But who was more valuable to the Jets last season. It has to be a Qb who put up those stats. And meshed with the offense. We saw a huge improvement in the O last season. Fitz haters gave him no credit for that but football fans know everything goes through the Qb. He handles the ball, calls the plays, reads the defense, calls audibles etc. Also he's the leader and there was great rapport among players last season even the receivers didn't complain and that's very unusual. It's stupid not to bring him back and his price is not crazy. And probably he will reduce it rather than go to another team where he has to start over again.

Well, he's going to have to reduce his asking price. Both parties need each other. If the parties opt to divorce? BOTH parties turn to sh*t in the end. Fitz' career will be all over. Mac and Bowles will find themselves embroiled in controversy as to why they did not sign Fitz. This criticism will ultimately lead to their dismissal later on down the road. The controversy now will be so severe that any little mistake they make later on will cost them their jobs.