EM31 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 OK so the Fitz thing is going to happen or it is not going to happen and we have certainly debated that to death. This thread is about a different question. Let's say just for the sake of argument that coaching staff thinks Geno has made massive strides in terms of his game. Geno is in the last year of his current deal. If he does have a big year then he would certainly be more expensive to resign at the end of the year. Perhaps even much more expensive. On the other hand he might be extendable for cheap right now. How much would get it done? How many years at how many dollars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Just now, EM31 said: OK so the Fitz thing is going to happen or it is not going to happen and we have certainly debated that to death. This thread is about a different question. Let's say just for the sake of argument that coaching staff thinks Geno has made massive strides in terms of his game. Geno is in the last year of his current deal. If he does have a big year then he would certainly be more expensive to resign at the end of the year. Perhaps even much more expensive. On the other hand he might be extendable for cheap right now. How much would get it done? How many years at how many dollars? Good question....I asked it a few weeks ago and people lost their minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Another Geno thread.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 I guess it may be outside of the universe of the standard talking points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogglez Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Even though it could be really beneficial to try do something like that, not only would the player almost NEVER do that, but it's far too risky. If the FO really believes that his progress is that significant, you play him this season and if he does really well you do exactly what the Redskins are doing with Kirk Cousins and tag him next year. Of course this type of move also has to factor in whether or not the organization truly believes in Hackenberg's ability to develop into "the guy", something I believe they think he can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 By years end they'll have somewhat of an idea what they have in Hacekenberg. If they see improvement, if they believe he's developing at an acceptable rate changes a lot. Regardless they'll be in a position to hold onto him another year without a long term commitment for a show me again deal. Im not sweating this as if it's a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanatic Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Could this be our starting QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleckineau Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 gazzillions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 Maybe a middle ground where they sign him to an extension at backup money (whatever the prevailing rates are for that) and then promise to redo his deal if he outperforms it on the field. Offseason GM'ing. Always fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Hypothetical as phuck, but it would be interesting to see if Geno would take the 3/$24M deal allegedly on the table for Fitz. Or is he, in @Rangers9 parlance, betting on himself. I'd think the latter. Having had his jaw broken in this locker room to silence, and having a front office invested in Hackenberg and, to a lesser extent, Petty, I just don't see him locking himself up here. Even though, like Fitz, I think that 3/$24M is a great deal, Geno would more likely be able to reinvent himself somewhere else. And that's what he probably needs to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
win4ever Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 This is actually pretty interesting because I thought about it a bunch over the off-season. If he does well, he's going to get paid in this league being young and talented (See Brock Osweiler) then we're going to be paying through or noses, or franchise tagging him. If he does mediocre or worse, obviously we move on. I'm not sure what the plan is with him, because the Jets have invested in Petty and Hackenberg, so they might not see a long term solution with Geno. Personally, I would offer him the 3 year 21 million offer given to Fitz. RGIII got a 2 year 15 million deal this off-season, while Chase Daniels got a 3 year $21 million deal this off-season. Ergo, I'd assume Geno has a benchmark rate of $7 million a year because I think he can be a backup/borderline starter type just from past performance. Fans might not agree with it because of team failures, but unless he completely tanks and falls apart this season, I think that's his floor for a contract, given age and talent. The 24th highest paid QB makes about 12.5 million per average on the year (Nick Foles according to OTC) so you would have to come in around 9 million or so for it to be worth it for Geno. So I would offer a 3 year deal at 24 million as a take it or leave it option with Geno. The last year structured in a way that makes him easier to cut if things don't go well, much like the Fitz contract. I know this is going to be unpopular, but even a backup QB type being picked up these days gets paid $7 million or so per year. The economics of QB pay has gone up considerably, so I would sign him to the contract knowing these are the outcomes from worst to good: 1. Geno tanks or gets injured, while Petty or Hackenberg fail to develop: Team has a sunk cost, but puts team in position to draft franchise QB who should be under-paid for his talent (Goff-Wentz make about 7 million on average). 2. Geno tanks or gets injured, while one of Petty or Hackenberg develop: Team has a cost effective replacement lined up behind Geno, and therefore he becomes an expensive backup. 3. Geno does allright, but not great, while Petty and Hackenberg fail to develop: The contract would still be just slightly above going rate for backup type QBs who don't sink teams, but won't lift them either. 4. Geno does allright, while one of Petty or Hackenberg develop: The contract is still not horrible enough that they can't move Geno at this point (Example would be Foles) while the Jets go to the backup option. 5. Geno does great, outperforms contract, while Petty and Hackenberg fail to develop: This would mean big savings in QB money (albeit at the risk of a holdout) and the Jets are in good position for the future. 6. Geno does great, outperforms contract, while Petty or Hackenberg develop: This would be the best case scenario where the Jets brass could cash in on Geno (and his team friendly deal) or trade his backups for value. In this situation, I see Option 1 as the only one where his contract would absolutely hurt us. We would have to hit on the franchise QB (ala Watson) at a cheap rate to counter the uselessness of Geno. All the other options make the deal survivable. To me, Geno is a better long term investment than Fitz, so I would offer him the same years that they offered Fitz. This ofcourse is going to be unpopular, because this is exactly what Mike Tannenbaum did with Mark Sanchez, but he failed. The team was going from talented to depleted, and he expected Sanchez to step up. Atleast in this case, the team's direction in terms of talent acquisition is heading in the right direction. I don't think any of this is going to happen, I think the Jets will wait it out and see what happens with Geno. They have a 5th year option on Sheldon, so they can afford to franchise Geno if he does great, and then try to work out a long term contract. It's the most conservative way to go about the contract, but it's also risk averse if they don't believe in him yet to make an improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rex-n-effect Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 No halfway competent front office signs a QB who hasn't played in a year with the kind of record Geno has after a little offseason, no matter how well he performs. He would have to perform well this year and next year on a tag. Then he can have a deal commensurate with two solid years of starter performance. What would be his incentive to take a low offer now? If everybody thinks he will be great this year then he just waits until the end or leaves in FA to a better deal. Makes no sense for either side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 9 minutes ago, slats said: Hypothetical as phuck, but it would be interesting to see if Geno would take the 3/$24M deal allegedly on the table for Fitz. Or is he, in @Rangers9 parlance, betting on himself. I'd think the latter. Having had his jaw broken in this locker room to silence, and having a front office invested in Hackenberg and, to a lesser extent, Petty, I just don't see him locking himself up here. Even though, like Fitz, I think that 3/$24M is a great deal, Geno would more likely be able to reinvent himself somewhere else. And that's what he probably needs to do. LOL that might be a good idea. The Eagles are setting a new market for backups so that would be the market in year-2 or year-3 if either of the kids were ready. Geno really would be gambling on himself. On the other hand I am not sure that a "reinvention" somewhere else would be a quick way to prove himself. This would. Like Fitz however he would be pissed to be under contract and have the Jets demote him to backup QB at backup QB money and at the team's discretion. I wonder if at his age that his agent would agree to such a deal? The market for QB's went up and I do not think that there is any way to avoid paying the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 1 hour ago, AFJF said: Good question....I asked it a few weeks ago and people lost their minds. I did also. I stated that Geno could possibly end up being tagged if he had a great season. People lost it right there lol. I think that the question in general is a legit one. There's nothing wrong by establishing some sort of short term extension "just in case". If Geno has a solid year to the point that it gets the front office thinking, then we can bet that other teams who dont have a good QB situation is probably thinking the same thing. Its better to do some sort of extension that will pay him a couple more mill than what he's currently getting. Maybe an extentsion that would pay him 6 or 7 million if they keep him but if they cut him they probably have a dead cap of 1 million or something. It beats having a situation where he ends up having a legit season and we're throwing the entire cap at him or franchising him after what Andrew Luck just signed. I dont think Geno will turn away the opportunity for another year of security and making in one year what he's made his entire career at best, or at worst not having a great season and being paid a mill to hit free agency and go elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant wait Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 I don't know why people want to assign a dollar value to a hypothetical performance with no specific parameters, but I'll bite. If he has a breakout year like cousins then he'll either be franchise tagged for 1 year or given an offer like Denver gave osweiler. Still it's really pointless to even speculate right now given the question marks the team has in the immediate future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainejet Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 1 hour ago, EM31 said: OK so the Fitz thing is going to happen or it is not going to happen and we have certainly debated that to death. This thread is about a different question. Let's say just for the sake of argument that coaching staff thinks Geno has made massive strides in terms of his game. Geno is in the last year of his current deal. If he does have a big year then he would certainly be more expensive to resign at the end of the year. Perhaps even much more expensive. On the other hand he might be extendable for cheap right now. How much would get it done? How many years at how many dollars? Geno is too dumb to under stand zeroes go on the right side of the number. He would mistakenly think that a $100,000,000 contract is actually $000,000,001. So he'll get ONE cent and he'll think he's rich........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 1 hour ago, EM31 said: OK so the Fitz thing is going to happen or it is not going to happen and we have certainly debated that to death. This thread is about a different question. Let's say just for the sake of argument that coaching staff thinks Geno has made massive strides in terms of his game. Geno is in the last year of his current deal. If he does have a big year then he would certainly be more expensive to resign at the end of the year. Perhaps even much more expensive. On the other hand he might be extendable for cheap right now. How much would get it done? How many years at how many dollars? $24 mil for 3 years. or $12 mil for 1 year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saul Goodman Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 41 minutes ago, Mainejet said: Geno is too dumb to under stand zeroes go on the right side of the number. He would mistakenly think that a $100,000,000 contract is actually $000,000,001. So he'll get ONE cent and he'll think he's rich........... Not hate, criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 2 hours ago, EM31 said: OK so the Fitz thing is going to happen or it is not going to happen and we have certainly debated that to death. This thread is about a different question. Let's say just for the sake of argument that coaching staff thinks Geno has made massive strides in terms of his game. Geno is in the last year of his current deal. If he does have a big year then he would certainly be more expensive to resign at the end of the year. Perhaps even much more expensive. On the other hand he might be extendable for cheap right now. How much would get it done? How many years at how many dollars? IMO zero. It's one thing if he's on the team for 2016 because he's essentially free and the 2 more recent draftees are still too raw. This is one of those players you wait to see him do something more before trying to get a bargain for future years. If he surprises for the better (much better, lol) then pay him accordingly. Otherwise move on. Even if Petty/Hackenberg are still unworthy of a starter role in 2017, worst case tag him if he's somehow worth it, or more likely just go in another direction. In between idea could be doing something mid season if he gives them some reason to do so. But otherwise I'd let his contract play its course. Particularly if Fitz returns (which is the assumption), after drafting 2 other QBs in consecutive years, it says they don't think enough of him until him turn it around on the field and he's the stopgap #2 like Fitz is the stopgap #1 for 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRL Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Smith playing well is the ideal situation and it would force Maccagnan to make a mid-year decision. Does he lock up Smith with a "mini extension" (2 yrs $18 million) around the 8th game and save the team money? Or does he ride it out to the end of the year and risk having to come up with Osweiler/Bradford money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Just now, KRL said: Smith playing well is the ideal situation and it would force Maccagnan to make a mid-year decision. Does he lock up Smith with a "mini extension" (2 yrs $18 million) around the 8th game and save the team money? Or does he ride it out to the end of the year and risk having to come up with Osweiler/Bradford money? Does he lock up Geno Smith? You serious Clark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeJet22 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 1 hour ago, Mainejet said: Geno is too dumb to under stand zeroes go on the right side of the number. He would mistakenly think that a $100,000,000 contract is actually $000,000,001. So he'll get ONE cent and he'll think he's rich........... Brilliant post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsplayer21 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 3 hours ago, EM31 said: OK so the Fitz thing is going to happen or it is not going to happen and we have certainly debated that to death. This thread is about a different question. Let's say just for the sake of argument that coaching staff thinks Geno has made massive strides in terms of his game. Geno is in the last year of his current deal. If he does have a big year then he would certainly be more expensive to resign at the end of the year. Perhaps even much more expensive. On the other hand he might be extendable for cheap right now. How much would get it done? How many years at how many dollars? Supply and demand.. What hurts geno is his past, like Fitzpatrick.. Even if geno had a good yr, i don't think any team is going to reach and overpay like tex did with Brock Osweiler .. Brock had a pretty decent yr his first yr playing.. He has no bad years behind him like Fitz or geno.. Brock is young, with a good physical makeup.. fitz has none of that.. Geno at least is young with pretty decent arm and speed, but unlike Brock geno doesn't have the big build and height most teams want these days.. I think geno would be open to sign a 1 yr deal with jets next yr.. If he could put two good consecutive yr under his belt he then would be highly desired in 2018.. Just like Fitz.. Fitz apologist love to say " there are no starting positions open anywhere else " ha.. If teams felt Fitz was a sure thing and had a good chance to repeat last yr or even build on that, trust me many teams would find a way to make him the starter.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 That is the worst idea I have ever heard in my life, Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 There is nothing to indictate Geno has made small strides ... Let alone massive ones he is much more likely to get released than extended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Geno's value is only going to go up if he plays well during the regular season. They are not giving him an extension based on OTAs or training camp. Right now he has very little value. If he starts and plays well that's another matter. If he doesn't start this year or again plays poorly he goes into the backup circuit. And tries to find employment. Also even if he's ok Mac could choose Hack over him. Hack is Mac's future starter of choice. He's the guy he drafted. His guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 McDonalds maybe if he plays his cards right Hamburger College Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rex-n-effect Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 45 minutes ago, Smashmouth said: McDonalds maybe if he plays his cards right Hamburger College Finally his work will make him grimace instead of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harlemnite1 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 6 hours ago, Saul Goodman said: You get's nothing Fitz and I appreciate if you would pay the Jets a fee lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.05f3dc52804d5fd84cf09ccfcd7bd10b.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.