Pac Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 7 minutes ago, EM31 said: Actually I was joking but the narrative from Geno fans was somewhat about how Geno's improvement would be making the decision harder for the coaching staff during camp. The big step forward which always and forever seems to be just over the horizon with him. Literally no one said that. In fact only 1 or 2 people actually thought Fitzpatrick wasn't going to get re-signed and instantly be named the starter. I personally thought, and still do, that signing Fitz for 1 year is a waste of time. The guy has an 11 year body of work showing he's simply not good enough. Better to get a definitive answer on a young QB with talent than take the safe route and try to grind out a mediocre season. I mean all you guys act like this was an easy choice but Macc waited until the last day and wouldn't give him over a year. They left him floating in stasis for months and not 1 team wanted to sign him. The Jets were a lot more willing to part ways with him than you all care to believe. You can claim this was some kind of no brainer decision if that makes you feel better/smarter but the reality is it wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeJet22 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 anyone questioning the Jets keeping three backup QBs need to take a harder look at who the starting QB is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 6 minutes ago, Pac said: Literally no one said that. In fact only 1 or 2 people actually thought Fitzpatrick wasn't going to get re-signed and instantly be named the starter. I personally thought, and still do, that signing Fitz for 1 year is a waste of time. The guy has an 11 year body of work showing he's simply not good enough. Better to get a definitive answer on a young QB with talent than take the safe route and try to grind out a mediocre season. I mean all you guys act like this was an easy choice but Macc waited until the last day and wouldn't give him over a year. They left him floating in stasis for months and not 1 team wanted to sign him. The Jets were a lot more willing to part ways with him than you all care to believe. You can claim this was some kind of no brainer decision if that makes you feel better/smarter but the reality is it wasn't. Do you realize that what you just posted could give credence to the story of how Geno Smith proved he wasn't good enough and the Jets did the only thing they could do and signed Fitzpatrick ? A much better story is that the jets were in a no win situation and did the only sensible thing they could . If they didn't resign Fitzpatrick and the season went badly, the front office and coaching staff would be strung up by the media and the billboard hanging banner flying gang . With Fitz in the fold, if the season goes badly, they can always say that they did all they could and it just wasn't good enough buying themselves some time . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Can't even get a 2030 7th round pick for Geno? Come on, Vikings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Just now, Ghost said: Can't even get a 2030 7th round pick for Geno? Come on, Vikings. why would the vikings want a player who has a rep for not reading defenses, not getting along with teammates who is in the last year of his contract? not to mention the guy is time-zone challenged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 14 minutes ago, Pac said: Literally no one said that. In fact only 1 or 2 people actually thought Fitzpatrick wasn't going to get re-signed and instantly be named the starter. I personally thought, and still do, that signing Fitz for 1 year is a waste of time. The guy has an 11 year body of work showing he's simply not good enough. Better to get a definitive answer on a young QB with talent than take the safe route and try to grind out a mediocre season. I mean all you guys act like this was an easy choice but Macc waited until the last day and wouldn't give him over a year. They left him floating in stasis for months and not 1 team wanted to sign him. The Jets were a lot more willing to part ways with him than you all care to believe. You can claim this was some kind of no brainer decision if that makes you feel better/smarter but the reality is it wasn't. I remain convinced that Fitzpatrick isn't worth the contract they gave him, that he's only marginally better than Geno, and maybe no different in the win/loss column. Doesn't change the fact that they did sign Fitz, and Geno makes the most sense as the odd man out. The current regime added the three other QBs. They knew Petty was a project, and cutting him loose after what looks like a lot of improvement since last year would be foolish. Would he be as effective as Geno if called to action? I don't honestly know. But I also put less emphasis on that than I do the future of the team's QB position - which I do know does not include Geno. You also have to recognize that he seems to be something of a pariah in the locker room, and hated by a large -probably the majority- of fans. Pro football is a business, and it's not good for business to trot out a QB your fans hate. If I thought the Jets could slip Petty onto the practice squad, I might think differently, but he's shown enough improvement to take over the backup role on what is probably a non-playoff team, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 8 minutes ago, Tinstar said: Do you realize that what you just posted could give credence to the story of how Geno Smith proved he wasn't good enough and the Jets did the only thing they could do and signed Fitzpatrick ? A much better story is that the jets were in a no win situation and did the only sensible thing they could . If they didn't resign Fitzpatrick and the season went badly, the front office and coaching staff would be strung up by the media and the billboard hanging banner flying gang . With Fitz in the fold, if the season goes badly, they can always say that they did all they could and it just wasn't good enough buying themselves some time . Cynical but true football stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 14 minutes ago, Tinstar said: Do you realize that what you just posted could give credence to the story of how Geno Smith proved he wasn't good enough and the Jets did the only thing they could do and signed Fitzpatrick ? A much better story is that the jets were in a no win situation and did the only sensible thing they could . If they didn't resign Fitzpatrick and the season went badly, the front office and coaching staff would be strung up by the media and the billboard hanging banner flying gang . With Fitz in the fold, if the season goes badly, they can always say that they did all they could and it just wasn't good enough buying themselves some time . Interesting take that I think could easily go the other way. Loaded line up, veteran QB who if he repeats last year, gave the Jets the best back to back seasons possibly ever from a Jets QB? I think that could actually stain harder than going with a youngster and not going all in to win this season with Fitz. Top 10 D, Top 10 O - 2 straight years in a row...If the playoffs are missed (which is the clear expectation from the GM), it might not be a good look for Bowles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR I Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 12 hours ago, 56mehl56 said: How can you include last season. He never had a chance thanks to the Rex plug IK.. Do you think he should have run with the one game he got into action cold , a game in which BTW that Fitz only exceeded 4 times in passing yards. This season the front office/HC made it clear that Fitz had the job if resigned although some of us had hoped otherwise. . Geno's yardage in Oakland was in garbage time, we were down 28-6 when Oakland went prevent and Geno had easy throws. And how can you not include last season? Is there not a better datapoint of Geno's 2016 potential than seeing him in live action with a record-setting offense in 2015? The narrative is that he had terrible weapons in 2014 and would have put up great numbers in 2015 with the luxury of the weapons that Fitzpatrick had. Well, he had them. It happened. You saw it. It wasn't good. SAR I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 17 minutes ago, Tinstar said: Do you realize that what you just posted could give credence to the story of how Geno Smith proved he wasn't good enough and the Jets did the only thing they could do and signed Fitzpatrick ? A much better story is that the jets were in a no win situation and did the only sensible thing they could . If they didn't resign Fitzpatrick and the season went badly, the front office and coaching staff would be strung up by the media and the billboard hanging banner flying gang . With Fitz in the fold, if the season goes badly, they can always say that they did all they could and it just wasn't good enough buying themselves some time . The bolded part nails it exactly. There would literally have been no political cover and no place to hide for our GM if Fitz had gone elsewhere and Geno wet the bed as the starter with the Jets. There would have been no cover even if Fitz was bad somewhere else because the argument would go that he would have/might have been successful here in a Chan Gailey offense with receivers he knew. I think I went back and forth with Slats on this very point before Fitz was signed. As it is we may be in line for the lesser of two PR disasters. The one where we (over)pay Fitz and then he regresses back to his career norm or worse. In either event Geno seems to have done next ot nothing to make the decision on Fitz very hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 8 minutes ago, SAR I said: Geno's yardage in Oakland was in garbage time, we were down 28-6 when Oakland went prevent and Geno had easy throws. And how can you not include last season? Is there not a better datapoint of Geno's 2016 potential than seeing him in live action with a record-setting offense in 2015? The narrative is that he had terrible weapons in 2014 and would have put up great numbers in 2015 with the luxury of the weapons that Fitzpatrick had. Well, he had them. It happened. You saw it. It wasn't good. SAR I Winner, winner chicken dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 15 hours ago, 56mehl56 said: The wr was wide open on a 3rd down play well short of the sticks , if he threw he'd be blasted for not throwing past the sticks. The witchhunt in here has reached epic proportions and its getting tiresome. Well I guess he did choose the best option of taking a mindless needless geno sack instead, You do have a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 15 minutes ago, slats said: I remain convinced that Fitzpatrick isn't worth the contract they gave him, that he's only marginally better than Geno, and maybe no different in the win/loss column. Doesn't change the fact that they did sign Fitz, and Geno makes the most sense as the odd man out. The current regime added the three other QBs. They knew Petty was a project, and cutting him loose after what looks like a lot of improvement since last year would be foolish. Would he be as effective as Geno if called to action? I don't honestly know. But I also put less emphasis on that than I do the future of the team's QB position - which I do know does not include Geno. You also have to recognize that he seems to be something of a pariah in the locker room, and hated by a large -probably the majority- of fans. Pro football is a business, and it's not good for business to trot out a QB your fans hate. If I thought the Jets could slip Petty onto the practice squad, I might think differently, but he's shown enough improvement to take over the backup role on what is probably a non-playoff team, anyway. All valid points that get lost in the screams of "Geno is the worst QB and human being ever" nonsense. It's like nails on a chalkboard. As fickle as this fan base is they would do a 180 if Geno was given a chance and played well. You gotta remember we're only a couple years removed from trotting out a guy that went to jail for brutally killing animals. And he got NOWHERE near the vitriol and hatred that Genos gotten the last couple months. It really is bizarre. I'm not so sure a team would sign Petty to their 53 but I understand not wanting to take that risk. I guess the best choice given the current situation is to keep all 4 and part ways with Geno next year. I don't think keeping a 10th o-lineman or 6th WR is going to make that much of a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 6 minutes ago, EM31 said: The bolded part nails it exactly. There would literally have been no political cover and no place to hide for our GM if Fitz had gone elsewhere and Geno wet the bed as the starter with the Jets. There would have been no cover even if Fitz was bad somewhere else because the argument would go that he would have/might have been successful here in a Chan Gailey offense with receivers he knew. I think I went back and forth with Slats on this very point before Fitz was signed. As it is we may be in line for the lesser of two PR disasters. The one where we (over)pay Fitz and then he regresses back to his career norm or worse. In either event Geno seems to have done next ot nothing to make the decision on Fitz very hard. especially since this is clearly a red shirt year for hack and petty may not yet be ready. it all makes perfect sense. it's important to remember here that while we all watched the good, bad and ugly with geno his first 2 years, bowles and mccags didn't. their first real taste of geno was him getting socked by IK. that was basically their first impression of him. and this year is the first time they've observed him in TC. there was no way they were not going to bring fitz back based on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 12 minutes ago, SAR I said: Geno's yardage in Oakland was in garbage time, we were down 28-6 when Oakland went prevent and Geno had easy throws. And how can you not include last season? Is there not a better datapoint of Geno's 2016 potential than seeing him in live action with a record-setting offense in 2015? The narrative is that he had terrible weapons in 2014 and would have put up great numbers in 2015 with the luxury of the weapons that Fitzpatrick had. Well, he had them. It happened. You saw it. It wasn't good. SAR I If you extrapolate his #'s in the Raiders game over the course of a season they would have been > than Fitzpatricks. Good grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 1 minute ago, Pac said: You gotta remember we're only a couple years removed from trotting out a guy that went to jail for brutally killing animals. vick was not a dick to his teammates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 At some point doesn't the pile of excuses for why Geno has not done more to take the starters job begin to offend even the most ardent Geno supporters' sense of rational probability? At some point isn't the simpler explanation the one that makes the most sense? Occam's razor and all that. Inept HC HC at war with his GM and (presumably) was losing on purpose just to stick it to the GM GM at war witrh HC and starving the team of talent Offense had no weapons QB got thrown into the starter's job too soon Too many different OCs Irrational fans hate him He wasn't really that bad (you did not really just see what you thought you saw) .... and so on and so forth GENO is also an anagram of GONE.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 1 minute ago, Pac said: If you extrapolate his #'s in the Raiders game over the course of a season they would have been > than Fitzpatricks. Good grief. If you extrapolate the outcome of the Raiders game, we would have been 0-16. Try saying something less stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 1 minute ago, Integrity28 said: If you extrapolate the outcome of the Raiders game, we would have been 0-16. Try saying something less stupid. a swing and a miss.. thanks for the nod tho! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 13 minutes ago, EM31 said: I think I went back and forth with Slats on this very point before Fitz was signed. As it is we may be in line for the lesser of two PR disasters. The one where we (over)pay Fitz and then he regresses back to his career norm or worse. In either event Geno seems to have done next ot nothing to make the decision on Fitz very hard. Maybe. I've always understood resigning Fitz as the safe option, I just opposed that safe option. I'd've rather signed a Hoyer or McCown in the offseason for a fraction of Fitz' contract, and let that guy battle Geno for the starting job - winner starts, loser gets cut. Now that they did decide to resign Fitz and name him the starter, Geno becomes the odd man out. If they can get something for him in the process, awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 8 minutes ago, Augustiniak said: especially since this is clearly a red shirt year for hack and petty may not yet be ready. it all makes perfect sense. it's important to remember here that while we all watched the good, bad and ugly with geno his first 2 years, bowles and mccags didn't. their first real taste of geno was him getting socked by IK. that was basically their first impression of him. and this year is the first time they've observed him in TC. there was no way they were not going to bring fitz back based on this. I am sure they watched all of the film of his first few years but probably decided that he would get a fresh start as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 9 minutes ago, Pac said: a swing and a miss.. thanks for the nod tho! You aren't good at this. Like most things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 1 minute ago, slats said: Maybe. I've always understood resigning Fitz as the safe option, I just opposed that safe option. I'd've rather signed a Hoyer or McCown in the offseason for a fraction of Fitz' contract, and let that guy battle Geno for the starting job - winner starts, loser gets cut. Now that they did decide to resign Fitz and name him the starter, Geno becomes the odd man out. If they can get something for him in the process, awesome! I think Bryce Petty was and still is in the line of fire to be cut. In fact it is still the more likely cut in my opinion since Geno Smith does have some wins in this league as a starter and that is a big deal for a backup. It is good to see that Petty has made that decision (if it comes) a little more difficult with his play so far. I think I took us down this particular story arc by observing that Geno has not done much if anything to help his own cause or to help his supporters defend him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodeawhodat Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 3 minutes ago, slats said: Maybe. I've always understood resigning Fitz as the safe option, I just opposed that safe option. I'd've rather signed a Hoyer or McCown in the offseason for a fraction of Fitz' contract, and let that guy battle Geno for the starting job - winner starts, loser gets cut. Now that they did decide to resign Fitz and name him the starter, Geno becomes the odd man out. If they can get something for him in the process, awesome! Even when McCown went on that tear a couple years ago he was throwing rainbows all over the field. He makes fitz look like he has a rifle. B.Marshall was probably(def) like heeeellll naaaawwww!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 11 hours ago, ljr said: Good deal .. My purpose of allowing you and your fellow Geno's Myhero's brethren to see your own reflections in the mirror is working exactly as planned then! thanks for the awesome news! GFY!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 2 minutes ago, EM31 said: I think Bryce Petty was and still is in the line of fire to be cut. In fact it is still the more likely cut in my opinion since Geno Smith does have some wins in this league as a starter and that is a big deal for a backup. It is good to see that Petty has made that decision (if it comes) a little more difficult with his play so far. I think I took us down this particular story arc by observing that Geno has not done much if anything to help his own cause or to help his supporters defend him. That last part, the bold there, yea... the worse he does, the harder they defend... so I dunno the dig I'd normally make here at them is pretty obvious though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 2 hours ago, Dcat said: Dialogue could sound like this: Mike Maccagnan to Rick Spielman: "Good morning Rick, I'm so sorry about the gruesome injury to Teddy. All of here at Florham Park wish him and the Vikings the best for his full recovery and return to the field in 2017." Spielman to Mac: "Thank you very much Mike. It sure is a bitter pill to swallow two weeks from opening day." Mac to Spielman: We are debating carrying four quarterbacks this season, but that means cutting some very promising WR prospects. We'd be willing to do a trade for veteran Geno Smith. Do the Vikings have any interest? Make us an offer." Spielman "Let us look at some film on Smith and we'll get back to you shortly." 20 minutes later: Spielman: We just watched tape of Smith. Let us put it this way..... Still laughing at this... great post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 6 minutes ago, EM31 said: I think Bryce Petty was and still is in the line of fire to be cut. In fact it is still the more likely cut in my opinion since Geno Smith does have some wins in this league as a starter and that is a big deal for a backup. It is good to see that Petty has made that decision (if it comes) a little more difficult with his play so far. I think I took us down this particular story arc by observing that Geno has not done much if anything to help his own cause or to help his supporters defend him. i think there is zero chance petty is released. mccags is committed to developing qbs, a pipeline of qbs he said. they're not giving up on a 2nd year prospect who clearly has made strides, just to keep geno who will most certainly not be in TC next August. also, with geno and fitz not signed beyond this season the team only has 2 qbs, they're not going to risk heading into the offseason with only hack under contract. the jets finally have a real front office that is committed to having multiple competent qbs. clearly the bridgewater tragedy shows you have to keep developing qbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 36 minutes ago, SAR I said: Geno's yardage in Oakland was in garbage time, we were down 28-6 when Oakland went prevent and Geno had easy throws. And how can you not include last season? Is there not a better datapoint of Geno's 2016 potential than seeing him in live action with a record-setting offense in 2015? The narrative is that he had terrible weapons in 2014 and would have put up great numbers in 2015 with the luxury of the weapons that Fitzpatrick had. Well, he had them. It happened. You saw it. It wasn't good. SAR I He Played 1 game last season - that's your datapoint 1 game. By that token we should all judge Fitz by that last game in Buffalo and say he had all the weaponzzzz but wasn't good enough or whatever else the rhetoric that get's applied to Geno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Based on last year signing Fitz was a no-brainer. There is no reason to go back ten years and over analyze his career. He worked his way up, then down and now up again. The Jets only committed themselves to one year (and less guaranteed money than their original 3 year offer) so if Fitz does not have a good year they can cut ties. Or if the FO and Bowles decides it's time for Hack in 2017. It was fair to Fitz and to the Jets. If Fitz plays well and they want him to return then all the Jets have to do is pay him market. They were trying to get him on the cheap and that's why it took 7 months. Fitz returning was the Jets strategy all of the time. They brought in like two other Qbs in RG3 and Hoyer but didn't want to sign them. They knew that Fitz has the ear and respect of the Jets players and that's half the battle. The 7 months was all about money and control of the player in the future and it didn't work. And was stupid because all of that time Fitz could have been practicing with the starting offense. It's really what it should be. All about 2016. Worry about the future next year. We have a team good enough to make the playoffs this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 7 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said: He Played 1 game last season - that's your datapoint 1 game. By that token we should all judge Fitz by that last game in Buffalo and say he had all the weaponzzzz but wasn't good enough or whatever else the rhetoric that get's applied to Geno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 33 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said: GFY!!! Wow ... Strong reaction to have towards a gnat Dohhhhhhhh ... Powned Again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Just now, ljr said: Wow ... Strong reaction to have towards a gnat Dohhhhhhhh ... Powned Again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't you mean "pwned"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 3 minutes ago, ljr said: Wow ... Strong reaction to have towards a gnat Dohhhhhhhh ... Powned Again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Congrats you've made it to my extremely small ignore list with jfmckenna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said: Don't you mean "pwned"? Loll ... Been awhile since I tried to act like one of the cool kids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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