Bench Fitz, Fire Chan (Not Knee-Jerk)

[Jetster]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Interesting, on he post game show Cascadden & Westhoff both mentioned how Chan called a great game, how well they mixed it up and spread the ball around.

Fans think if a play doesn't work it's a bad call. 

+1000

Fans want absolute perfection. Give the Bengals some credit for really good tackling & hustle. Forte looked like he was gonna score & got to the 2 yard line. Fitz got to the 1/2 foot line of the endzone. Marshall couldn't break away on the sideline 5 yards from the endzone. Decker couldn't get to the corner on a fade. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Bench him and fire Gailey after 1 game (and with another game coming up on Thursday no less)? Yeah right. 

He didn't have a good game never mind his good and bad numbers. Too many wide open receivers and it's very uncommon for the ball to be placed just-so, even if they're technically catchable. Others weren't even that good, and we all saw his reactions to his own throws on would-be easy + important completions. There absolutely were some good throws, but too small a percentage are where they should be (i.e. where the receiver expects the ball to be). However he can't be benched. He wasn't that atrocious to warrant such a move, and since this is who he is and the HC and GM brought him back anyway while being fully aware of this, yes it would be a knee-jerk reaction.

As far as firing Gailey, also ridiculous. Every time a play doesn't work in hindsight it's easy to say another play should have been called. A couple to a few were calls I wouldn't have wanted to see called from before the snap, but I'm sure there are other times I wouldn't want a play called and it ends up converting. Something to consider:  on many plays that had bad results, that appear to be ill-conceived from the sideline, I doubt very much Gailey has told his QB to keep staring at one target and throw it to that target (often sidearm with a defender in front of him), whether said first read is open or not.

Firing/demoting either is a great way to lose the locker room. Proper thing to do is let the fans'/players' choice take them as far as he can, which is likely short of the playoffs, and then put in Petty. That would happen sooner in the doomsday scenario of losing all of the first 6 games (which I think would be unlikely anyway; even if we're not favored to win a single of them).

[Mogglez]

This is like, the definition of knee-jerk.

[KRL]

25 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

What happens if Folk blows up again like this, during the season?

Bring back Ross Martin.  The reason you kept Folk was his experience and reliability in knocking

chip shots and PAT's through.  If he can't do that bring back the rookie

[bealeb319]

Bench Marshall, the secondary and the head coach and folk too

We should probably just eat the cap hit and cut all of our pro bowl caliber players so that we can roll the dice on a mediocre qb next year in the draft

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

[C Mart]

6 hours ago, Kevin L said:

This. Chan understands the limitations of his players, and designs plays around them. 

We'd all like to see more shots down field. Unfortunately, Marshall and Decker aren't those types of receivers, and Fitz isn't that QB.

I will say that some of the red zone play calling wasn't that great.

The execution wasn't great. Plays were there. 

[JustInFudge]

[Kevin L]

10 minutes ago, C Mart said:

The execution wasn't great. Plays were there. 

I really didn't like the jump ball to Decker. Decker is a route runner, not a jumper. Marshall or even Robbie Anderson would have been a better choice for that type of play.

[PCP63]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Interesting, on he post game show Cascadden & Westhoff both mentioned how Chan called a great game, how well they mixed it up and spread the ball around.

Fans think if a play doesn't work it's a bad call. 

Not saying I'm Harbaugh or anything, but I know a decent amount about offense, I like to think. I'm an OC at a decent HS. Again, not saying I'm a guru or anything, but I understand that just because a play doesn't work, doesn't mean it was a bad play call (see my thread on Hack).

While he's not the worst play caller, there are better ones to be found in the college ranks right now.

You want to talk about making the most of players, talk to Paul Johnson. Obviously a completely different system, but the point still stands.

[RMJK]

8 hours ago, shawn306 said:

Yeah but every year is a throw away year whenever the Jets lose a game.

Exactly, beer talk all the way. You go to a tailgate and some guys are totaled before the game. I just keep saying yeah yeah. Same here but you don't get to see how drunk they are.

[Charlie Brown]

2 hours ago, PCP63 said:

Not saying I'm Harbaugh or anything, but I know a decent amount about offense, I like to think. I'm an OC at a decent HS. Again, not saying I'm a guru or anything, but I understand that just because a play doesn't work, doesn't mean it was a bad play call (see my thread on Hack).

While he's not the worst play caller, there are better ones to be found in the college ranks right now.

You want to talk about making the most of players, talk to Paul Johnson. Obviously a completely different system, but the point still stands.

In truth based on the QB the Jets had last year in Fitz, Chan was masterful.  

The idea that a college coach would have done better with Fitz or Geno at the helm last year is to asinine to even consider. 

[greenwave81]

9 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Though I understand what you're saying, I cant agree with this. 

Everyone knows how I feel about Ryan Fitzpatrick, but you dont bench him after this game. I think Chan is the best OC we've had the past 20 years (arguably). I have no problem with Chan as our OC. Are there moments where I say "WTF was that"? Sure, on a play by play basis. But as a whole, just as a quality coordinator, I think the Jets have a top 10 OC in the league, not kidding.

I also dont think Fitz is that terrible of a decision maker. He's an inconsistent thrower. One moment he'll throw a strike across the middle for a nice 25 yard gain, then next moment he'll over throw Marshall on a 10 yard pass in the endzone by a f'ing mile,...one moment he'll have a nice scramble for 10 yards and a first down then the next play he'll hang his WR out to dry with a limp pass. If we had a consistent "good Ryan Fitzpatrick" he'd be a top 15 QB in this league. There are also times during crunch time where he concentrates solely on one WR (Decker or Marshall). He literally makes that decision before the ball is in play it looks like. However, of the QB's we've seen play in live games (Fitz & Geno) FItz is a better decision maker while Geno has the better overall physical attributes (Im not making a Geno argument here ladies and gentlemen...just an observation). You also cannot trust Fitz in the 4th quarter on a two minute drive consistently. Sure, he had great drives against the Giants and Cowboys last season, but the Giants had arguably the worst defense in the league as well as the Cowboys who also had their top 2 offensive weapons injured when we played them. Anytime he had the ball in his hands against a solid defense or a playoff caliber team the dude literally ended the game with interceptions, and I mean that literally. Fitz has to have the lead late in the fourth. If he has the ball with 1min/2mins left in the game and you need a game winning drive, might as well forget it. 

 

Fitz problem yesterday was his accuracy. Dude was horrible yesterday, but many of his decisions were the right one. Now where I do agree with you is that I dont believe that we're going to the playoffs with FItzpatrick as the QB. I think whats going to happen is that we'll probably end up beating an injury-riddled Bills team next week and suddenly people will be talking about how wrong people were about Fitzpatrick. Fitz is a tease, a wet dream...but with that said, you dont pay him 12 million and bench him after that performance. It was below average, not f'ing terrible. One or two of those redzone drives properly executed and we're singing a different tune around here. Thats Fitz in a nutshell. 

He does enough to where some will defend him but at the same time he lacks enough to where others want to bench him just based on the f'ing frustration. 

Fitz was below average, but its week 1. I had us at 3-3 heading into week 7 anyway. Anything below that would be a failure. 

You know, I've taken opposite sides of the Fitz/Geno argument with you...but have to say that is one excellent post that sums up the Fitz conundrum to a tee.  If you could Fitz's brain into Geno's head, you'd have a winner.  That throw to Marshall was terrible even though he should have caught it, but he made the correct read, and FAST..Fitz knows where to go in most cases, but is physically limited in his ability to get it there (hence to 'over throws' as he a tendency to rifle everything with all he has due to inadequate arm strength).

Petty, like Geno has the physical attributes to succeed, question is at what speed is his NFL brain clicking at at this point?

[jetscrazey]

protip: Just because it says "not knee jerk" in the thread title doesn't mean it's not kneejerk

[Gas2No99]

9 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Though I understand what you're saying, I cant agree with this. 

Everyone knows how I feel about Ryan Fitzpatrick, but you dont bench him after this game. I think Chan is the best OC we've had the past 20 years (arguably). I have no problem with Chan as our OC. Are there moments where I say "WTF was that"? Sure, on a play by play basis. But as a whole, just as a quality coordinator, I think the Jets have a top 10 OC in the league, not kidding.

I also dont think Fitz is that terrible of a decision maker. He's an inconsistent thrower. One moment he'll throw a strike across the middle for a nice 25 yard gain, then next moment he'll over throw Marshall on a 10 yard pass in the endzone by a f'ing mile,...one moment he'll have a nice scramble for 10 yards and a first down then the next play he'll hang his WR out to dry with a limp pass. If we had a consistent "good Ryan Fitzpatrick" he'd be a top 15 QB in this league. There are also times during crunch time where he concentrates solely on one WR (Decker or Marshall). He literally makes that decision before the ball is in play it looks like. However, of the QB's we've seen play in live games (Fitz & Geno) FItz is a better decision maker while Geno has the better overall physical attributes (Im not making a Geno argument here ladies and gentlemen...just an observation). You also cannot trust Fitz in the 4th quarter on a two minute drive consistently. Sure, he had great drives against the Giants and Cowboys last season, but the Giants had arguably the worst defense in the league as well as the Cowboys who also had their top 2 offensive weapons injured when we played them. Anytime he had the ball in his hands against a solid defense or a playoff caliber team the dude literally ended the game with interceptions, and I mean that literally. Fitz has to have the lead late in the fourth. If he has the ball with 1min/2mins left in the game and you need a game winning drive, might as well forget it. 

 

Fitz problem yesterday was his accuracy. Dude was horrible yesterday, but many of his decisions were the right one. Now where I do agree with you is that I dont believe that we're going to the playoffs with FItzpatrick as the QB. I think whats going to happen is that we'll probably end up beating an injury-riddled Bills team next week and suddenly people will be talking about how wrong people were about Fitzpatrick. Fitz is a tease, a wet dream...but with that said, you dont pay him 12 million and bench him after that performance. It was below average, not f'ing terrible. One or two of those redzone drives properly executed and we're singing a different tune around here. Thats Fitz in a nutshell. 

He does enough to where some will defend him but at the same time he lacks enough to where others want to bench him just based on the f'ing frustration. 

Fitz was below average, but its week 1. I had us at 3-3 heading into week 7 anyway. Anything below that would be a failure. 

 

Well said Sir. 

[Gas2No99]

21 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

You know, I've taken opposite sides of the Fitz/Geno argument with you...but have to say that is one excellent post that sums up the Fitz conundrum to a tee.  If you could Fitz's brain into Geno's head, you'd have a winner.  

Petty, like Geno has the physical attributes to succeed, question is at what speed is his NFL brain clicking at at this point?

Same sentiment here. That's what made Petty getting hurt a bit frustrating since the remainder of that Preseason game v. Eagles we could have had a better sample of how MUCH has he REALLY progressed as a Pro QB MENTALLY. That limited window we saw in Philly was highly encouraging as it was tantalizing. 

[Villain The Foe]

9 hours ago, greenwave81 said:

You know, I've taken opposite sides of the Fitz/Geno argument with you...but have to say that is one excellent post that sums up the Fitz conundrum to a tee.  If you could Fitz's brain into Geno's head, you'd have a winner.  That throw to Marshall was terrible even though he should have caught it, but he made the correct read, and FAST..Fitz knows where to go in most cases, but is physically limited in his ability to get it there (hence to 'over throws' as he a tendency to rifle everything with all he has due to inadequate arm strength).

Petty, like Geno has the physical attributes to succeed, question is at what speed is his NFL brain clicking at at this point?

 

8 hours ago, Gas2No99 said:

 

Well said Sir. 

Thanks! 

[drdetroit]

No problem with Gailey our offense is limited by Fitz's arm

[PCP63]

Bump

[PCP63]

Who would like to apologize first?

[Villain The Foe]

On 9/12/2016 at 6:58 PM, PCP63 said:

I said the same thing last season. We need to bench Fitz and fire Chan. They simply won't get us anywhere but mediocrity. Sure, Revis sucked badly, Marshall was non-existent, and we just played poorly all-around, but the constant is always Fitz and Chan. Marshall and Revis will bounce back. 

 

While Fitz is certainly starter material, 

You lost me right there. 

[PCP63]

Fantastic stuff on Sunday. Best OC in the league. Teams shake in their boots when they hear Chan's name.

[BallinPB]

Nobody cares that your initial knee jerk reaction was correct.  I've been saying this (at least the part about Fitz) since the beginning of the offseason.  Where's my credit? 

[PCP63]

4 minutes ago, BallinPB said:

Nobody cares that your initial knee jerk reaction was correct.  I've been saying this (at least the part about Fitz) since the beginning of the offseason.  Where's my credit? 

It wasn't a knee-jerk reaction. A knee-jerk reaction would be Hack having one bad game, and me calling him the worst QB in the league. Breaking down the film, it has been obvious for a long time that Chan gets FAR too much credit as an OC.

[PCP63]

On 9/12/2016 at 1:00 PM, Integrity28 said:

Kyle Shanahan has turned Matt Ryan into Ryan Fitzpatrick. Dude looks awful since Quinn/Shanny Jr. took over that offense.

Chan Gailey is head and shoulders better than Schotty Jr and Morninwheg.

Knee jerk all the way.

Just revisiting this. While I'm not the QB whisperer either, told you about Shanahan.

[Integrity28]

Just now, PCP63 said:

Just revisiting this. While I'm not the QB whisperer either, told you about Shanahan.

I spent years here wanting Kyle Shanny, so you didn't really "tell me" about him. However, at the time of posting this, what I said was spot on and it was a solid contrarian post to make given the thread. 

Their 2nd year has obviously made the comment look silly though. So, I guess +1 point for you?

[PCP63]

4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I spent years here wanting Kyle Shanny, so you didn't really "tell me" about him. However, at the time of posting this, what I said was spot on and it was a solid contrarian post to make given the thread. 

Their 2nd year has obviously made the comment look silly though. So, I guess +1 point for you?

Fair enough. I actually didn't revisit the next comment you made where you stated that you've previously advocated hiring him.

[ZachEY]

[PCP63]

3 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Will soar again

[Jetworks]

Still waiting for the OP's assurance that Brandon and Revis will bounce back to come to fruition. Sure would help clean quite a bit of things up for this team.

[PCP63]

4 minutes ago, Jetworks said:

Still waiting for the OP's assurance that Brandon and Revis will bounce back to come to fruition. Sure would help clean quite a bit of things up for this team.

There was no way to predict they would fall this far. But Chan was never good. Truly, he wasn't. He didn't fall, he stayed right where he already was. At the bottom.

[Jetworks]

1 minute ago, PCP63 said:

There was no way to predict they would fall this far. But Chan was never good. Truly, he wasn't. He didn't fall, he stayed right where he already was. At the bottom.

Disagree, as the handwriting was on the wall with Revis last season, and Marshall's success was directly tied to Fitzpatrick's (and therefore Gailey's) terrific season.

Bragging that you were "right" about one thing and overlooking that you whiffed so badly on two others (one of which was directly related to your "prediction") is silly. 

[phill1c]

3 minutes ago, PCP63 said:

There was no way to predict they would fall this far. But Chan was never good. Truly, he wasn't. He didn't fall, he stayed right where he already was. At the bottom.

I don't understand the hatred of Chan Gailey.

Every week, a poster here points out where the plays Chan has dialed WOULD WORK if executed.

The problem is that we have a QB who cannot execute the game plan.

[rex-n-effect]

56 minutes ago, phill1c said:

I don't understand the hatred of Chan Gailey.

Every week, a poster here points out where the plays Chan has dialed WOULD WORK if executed.

The problem is that we have a QB who cannot execute the game plan.

Yep run, run, pass would work every time if the third down pass would just connect every series. That's the only problem with the offensive playcalling.

[phill1c]

50 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

Yep run, run, pass would work every time if the third down pass would just connect every series. That's the only problem with the offensive playcalling.

You DO realize we have the leading INT-throwing QB under center, don't you?

[LIJetsFan]

Hey, did anyone ever stop to consider that Shotty might have had something to do with us getting to those two championship games?  I wonder how he's be as a HC.  (couldn't be any worse)