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Integrity28

Alright, how fixable are the problems?

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- Bench FItz for Petty or Geno. We need to make more splash plays. Fitz needs to be on a short rope in week 2. If Geno or Petty struggle, we can always go back to Fitz week 3. 

- More Safety help for Revis

- Marshall will be fine. My concern is Fitz getting him targets

- Folk will be better

- I believe we'll be better on wheel routes. Bowles needs to adjust. 

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3 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

By all accounts, going back to last season and week 17 specifically, these are the recurring problems that lead to losses:

  • Defense cannot close, allows scoring drive in final minutes of 4th quarter and relinquish lead
  • Fitz cannot bail the defense out, in the 4th quarter, with the game on the line, after a momentum shift just stole the lead from us (there have been exceptions to this, but let's face it, he's not the comeback kid)
  • Fitz struggles to get in rhythm early in games
  • Revis cannot be on an "island" with #1 WR
  • Secondary cannot defend wheel routes and bubble screens
  • Marshall makes drops in game-changing moments
  • Defensive coaches don't make good in-game adjustments in coverage
  • Offensive/head coaches don't manage clock well
  • Offensive coaches are generally conservative in red zone, and don't keep their foot on the gas with a lead
  • Folk is missing easy kicks
  • Special teams makes momentum-changing mistakes

I wonder, as I look down this list, how much of it is fixable with improved execution and coaching? The knee-jerk is to cut this guy, and cut that guy... but the reality is, the roster is what it's going to be. As the pre-season fades into the rear view, and reps increase, what can we expect (realistically) to see improvement on?

 

Nothing about getting pressure on the QB. Yay.

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Just now, The Crusher said:

Nothing about getting pressure on the QB. Yay.

Yea, there are in fact problems that have been solved. :)

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the problem this season is, bowles is going to ride the vets until they are clearly out of the playoff picture.  then mccags will begin the youth movement, and petty/jalin/anderson/peake will be involved.  the first half of this season is playoff push.  if they're 3-5 or worse, then they'll start thinking about changes. 

truth, this is the transition year, from the focus on fitz/marshall/decker/revis to the younger guys.  it is very telling that fitz/marshall/revis/folk cost them the game the most yesterday.  and a guy like brian winters who gets ragged on too much did a heck of a job, quietly, the way you want him to.

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I mean, you probably can't. They looked exactly like they did last year save for Forte, which isn't surprising because it's the same team as last year but a year older. That's a net negative for everyone except the front seven. Throw in the schedule and this is pretty much what I think most of the fanbase expected when camp started. This is a team that handed over what, 2-3 wins last year easy? Then they blew a chance at the playoffs in epic fashion. That's where they left off. Why would the same team be able to fix that stuff?

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  • Defense cannot close, allows scoring drive in final minutes of 4th quarter and relinquish lead
    • Same story forever. Mangini, Rex, Bowles. Never seems to change. Not likely to be fixed, especially with our weak secondary.
  • Fitz cannot bail the defense out, in the 4th quarter, with the game on the line, after a momentum shift just stole the lead from us (there have been exceptions to this, but let's face it, he's not the comeback kid)
    • Not fixable. He's awful when teams put up more than 20 points against us.
  • Fitz struggles to get in rhythm early in games
    • Fixable. He missed a huge portion of the offseason. We might see him improve over the next few weeks.
  • Revis cannot be on an "island" with #1 WR
    • Not fixable, but can be adjusted with proper coaching. Either let Revis jam the receiver at the line and give him safety help over the top, or put him on the number two. He simply cannot keep up with the Hopkins, Greens, Watkins of the league in his tenth year.
  • Secondary cannot defend wheel routes and bubble screens
    • Alarming. I expected the team to come out better prepared in the second half against the bubble screens but we still got gashed. Secondary really might be our achilles heel this year.
  • Marshall makes drops in game-changing moments
    • Same sh*t, different year
  • Defensive coaches don't make good in-game adjustments in coverage
    • We were a mostly solid second half team last year. Let's see what happens.
  • Offensive/head coaches don't manage clock well
    • I knew blowing those timeouts early in the second half would cost us. I wish coaches wouldn't ever use timeouts in close games until the final two minutes, because lord knows you will need them.
  • Offensive coaches are generally conservative in red zone, and don't keep their foot on the gas with a lead
    • Fixable, if the coaches grow testicles.
  • Folk is missing easy kicks
    • Looks like yesterday was a fluke. Folk has been very solid for the last six years.
  • Special teams makes momentum-changing mistakes
    • ST was actually good yesterday. It was only our kicker that laid an egg.
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3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

the problem this season is, bowles is going to ride the vets until they are clearly out of the playoff picture. 

Darron Lee played more snaps than Erin Henderson yesterday.

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8 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

By all accounts, going back to last season and week 17 specifically, these are the recurring problems that lead to losses:

  • Defense cannot close, allows scoring drive in final minutes of 4th quarter and relinquish lead
  • Fitz cannot bail the defense out, in the 4th quarter, with the game on the line, after a momentum shift just stole the lead from us (there have been exceptions to this, but let's face it, he's not the comeback kid)
  • Fitz struggles to get in rhythm early in games
  • Revis cannot be on an "island" with #1 WR
  • Secondary cannot defend wheel routes and bubble screens
  • Marshall makes drops in game-changing moments
  • Defensive coaches don't make good in-game adjustments in coverage
  • Offensive/head coaches don't manage clock well
  • Offensive coaches are generally conservative in red zone, and don't keep their foot on the gas with a lead
  • Folk is missing easy kicks
  • Special teams makes momentum-changing mistakes

I wonder, as I look down this list, how much of it is fixable with improved execution and coaching? The knee-jerk is to cut this guy, and cut that guy... but the reality is, the roster is what it's going to be. As the pre-season fades into the rear view, and reps increase, what can we expect (realistically) to see improvement on?

 

Marshall drops balls so cant be fixed

Fitz is what he is cant be fixed

Secondary should be fixable with a definsive coach especially.  if not that is a huge problem.  with the pressure we were getting, we should eb able to drop 6 or 7 guys to cover and that should be enough

hopefully coaching will get better, play calling and adjustments.  if not wont be here too long

Folk should be better from here on out if not sign someone else

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Just now, BroadwayJets said:

Darron Lee played more snaps than Erin Henderson yesterday.

he's a very fast 1st round pick, he's going to play.  i'm more referring to the offense.  the offense is where most of the vets are.  fitz/marshall/decker/mangold/clady.  the team needs to use jalin marshall in the passing game.  why can't they throw him the same screens the bengals used?  he can play.

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5 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

By all accounts, going back to last season and week 17 specifically, these are the recurring problems that lead to losses:

  • Defense cannot close, allows scoring drive in final minutes of 4th quarter and relinquish lead 
  • Fitz cannot bail the defense out, in the 4th quarter, with the game on the line, after a momentum shift just stole the lead from us (there have been exceptions to this, but let's face it, he's not the comeback kid)
  • Fitz struggles to get in rhythm early in games
  • Revis cannot be on an "island" with #1 WR
  • Secondary cannot defend wheel routes and bubble screens
  • Marshall makes drops in game-changing moments
  • Defensive coaches don't make good in-game adjustments in coverage
  • Offensive/head coaches don't manage clock well
  • Offensive coaches are generally conservative in red zone, and don't keep their foot on the gas with a lead
  • Folk is missing easy kicks
  • Special teams makes momentum-changing mistakes

I wonder, as I look down this list, how much of it is fixable with improved execution and coaching? The knee-jerk is to cut this guy, and cut that guy... but the reality is, the roster is what it's going to be. As the pre-season fades into the rear view, and reps increase, what can we expect (realistically) to see improvement on?

 

I'll answer my own question.

  • Bullets 1+2: Solve the problem of not being aggressive enough on offense, and you play with big leads - thus solving both of these.
  • Fitz isn't going to change. We have to endure this, until we have a QB that can take his job.
  • Revis needs help. This is a coach/scheme problem that can be solved. Belicheat did a good job of hiding Revis's age in NE. He didn't move him around, put him in zone, etc.
  • The guys we brought in to address the problem with screens are rookies, so, with reps, this problem can/should be solved. Ideally.
  • Not sure defensive coaches know how to adjust. This is a Kacy Rodgers is too inexperienced issue.
  • Clock management should be fixable.
  • Being conservative tells me that offensive coaches want to lean on the D. If the D continues to be weak, then offense has to open up. Not sure how fixable this is.
  • Folk should self-correct.
  • Special teams should clean this up with more reps together.

 

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4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Yea, there are in fact problems that have been solved. :)

Revis is easy. Just give him safety help. He is old.  Same thing with my 12 year old Dog Bubba.  I got to give his butt a push when he jumps in the truck.  Wheel routes and bubble screens you would think speed would help that. When younger guys get more comfortable, like Lee that could improve. Marshall looked terrible compared to last year. If he going to drop balls he needs to make crazy good plays too like he did last year. If not give the young WR a shout. Folk?  Idiot.

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One problem with our defense imo is that a lot of things they like to do is predicated in substitution.  If teams run a fast face offense, especially near the end of a game they can't substitute and all the glorious thoughts of having such a hybrid D can go out the window, this leads to some passive or scared Defensive play calling. 

Our offense is what it is, it put up 20 yesterday which should be enough to win if our D is as great as we like to think.

Any pluses we get out of getting petty and geno into the game will be totally negated by rookie or bone headed bad plays.

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I think the secondary problems are the toughest to fix and imo the leading reason for us losing yesterday. Esp giving up big plays on 3rd down. And being able to figure out how to at least somewhat contain elite receivers. After that red zone offense but last year it wasn't bad at all. After that penalties on the O-line which means guys are getting beat. Those are killers. Of course the kicking game but this punter looks really good. I wish we had him last year. 

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4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

he's a very fast 1st round pick, he's going to play.  i'm more referring to the offense.  the offense is where most of the vets are.  fitz/marshall/decker/mangold/clady.  the team needs to use jalin marshall in the passing game.  why can't they throw him the same screens the bengals used?  he can play.

Not fair to paint Bowles as someone who blindly plays vets.  There is no evidence of that from the roster and who gets to play.  Name the position where he has a better player on the bench not playing due to age.

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I don't know if the offense can be fixed this year. While many fans were beating their chest about putting up numbers on inferior competition, there was real reason to be concerned about how this team was going to fare against better teams. The jets got away with a ton of mistakes last season, and were too dependent on turnovers (and dropped INTs) which are unreliable by nature. I don't think that the main issues are fixable right now and what I'm seeing is a team that's regressing to the mean after a year where they benefitted from a lot of good luck going their way. however the jets can and should do some things to increase their chances... the jalin marshall return yesterday was the biggest net positive play of the game and the jets would be wise to give themselves more chances to break big plays and dial back the conservative (inefficient) slow moving offensive gameplan

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4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

he's a very fast 1st round pick, he's going to play.  i'm more referring to the offense.  the offense is where most of the vets are.  fitz/marshall/decker/mangold/clady.  the team needs to use jalin marshall in the passing game.  why can't they throw him the same screens the bengals used?  he can play.

While he certainly has the ability to get open, he did drop a lot of passes in the preseason. It's not dumb to let him get more reps in practice before relying on him in games. Other than that, what other positions do we have young guys ready to take the field? There's no OL, young RB, CB, S, TE, or LB really flashing. All we have are the vets as of now. Only young guys that are flashing are the DL. Surprise surprise, it's the only other position we're deep at.

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1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Not fair to paint Bowles as someone who blindly plays vets.  There is no evidence of that from the roster and who gets to play.  Name the position where he has a better player on the bench not playing due to age.

Actually, there's plenty of evidence of it. He routinely says that young guys have to be eased in. 

Regardless, being loyal to veterans is not the problem. So, who cares?

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Just now, Jet Nut said:

Not fair to paint Bowles as someone who blindly plays vets.  There is no evidence of that from the roster and who gets to play.  Name the position where he has a better player on the bench not playing due to age.

petty, jalin marshall and robbie anderson, IMO.  the jets are not making the playoffs with fitz.  petty has the skill set he brings would add a dimension to the offense it sorely needs to compete.  they should have used jalin way more in the red zone.  he's clearly a playmaker with the ball, his return was insane all the broken tackles.  the offense relied on forte, marshall and decker were largely ineffective.  the offense needs juice.  cincy used boyd, the jets need to be more creative and use their playmakers.

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11 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

By all accounts, going back to last season and week 17 specifically, these are the recurring problems that lead to losses:

 wonder, as I look down this list, how much of it is fixable with improved execution and coaching? The knee-jerk is to cut this guy, and cut that guy... but the reality is, the roster is what it's going to be. As the pre-season fades into the rear view, and reps increase, what can we expect (realistically) to see improvement on?

  • Defense cannot close, allows scoring drive in final minutes of 4th quarter and relinquish lead
    • Not a new problem for sure. It's hard to say we don't have enough talent to get it done on defense. This year this is a coaching issue not adjusting to the way the opposing offense is working. 
  • Fitz cannot bail the defense out, in the 4th quarter, with the game on the line, after a momentum shift just stole the lead from us (there have been exceptions to this, but let's face it, he's not the comeback kid)
    • You can't magically make a twelth year starter a fourth quarter clutch player. We have to carry a lead so Fitz doesn't have to be put in a position to perform at his worst.
  • Fitz struggles to get in rhythm early in games
    • Really? I thought we had our best rhythm on defense early in the game.
  • Revis cannot be on an "island" with #1 WR
    • Same as Fitz, you're not going to make an older player a physically superior player. 
  • Secondary cannot defend wheel routes and bubble screens
    • The players are capable--the defensive scheme is not. This goes back to the coaches not adjusting to the game being played vs. the game planned.
  • Marshall makes drops in game-changing moments
    • See Revis and Fitz comments.
  • Defensive coaches don't make good in-game adjustments in coverage
    • Yes and
  • Offensive/head coaches don't manage clock well
    • Yes and
  • Offensive coaches are generally conservative in red zone, and don't keep their foot on the gas with a lead
    • Yes. The coaching is where the biggest opportunity exists to improve our game. We know who we have on the roster and we have the talent to be successful if the coaches would adjust and not play for FGs.
  • Folk is missing easy kicks
    • See Revis, Fitz and Marshall above. Folk had an awful game yesterday but peering through the frustration he has to get a little slack on the wind situation and at a minimum blame has to be shared on the blocked FG with the line for not shutting out the defender.
  • Special teams makes momentum-changing mistakes
    • We're a lot better than we were last year as a whole on ST and assuming Folk's performance yesterday was a fluke this will be less of a problem going forward.
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2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Not fair to paint Bowles as someone who blindly plays vets.  There is no evidence of that from the roster and who gets to play.  Name the position where he has a better player on the bench not playing due to age.

Quarterback? (Petty, not Geno)

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Just now, Green DNA said:

Quarterback? (Petty, not Geno)

exactly.   just posted this above.  i added jalin and robbie too.  if the qb can't stretch the defense it hurts marshall and decker.

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3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

exactly.   just posted this above.  i added jalin and robbie too.  if the qb can't stretch the defense it hurts marshall and decker.

This is our problem. With Fitz having issues in Buffalo, we should have Fitz on a short leash in case he's in trouble early.

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1 minute ago, SAR I said:

Here is the answer that will be difficult for many to grasp:

We are a 4-12 John Idzik disaster in Year #2 Game #1 of a four-year rebuilding project which, through an easy schedule and uncharacteristically high quarterback play, prematurely got to 10 wins last year but wasn't actually a 10 win team.

And while some aspects of the team are ahead of schedule (DL, WR, RB) some areas aren't corrected yet (QB, DB, LB, OL) and so occasionally we will show flashes of strong play, we will often tease against some good teams, but in the end we are an average team at best and will lose painfully when superior teams with superior talent, superior coaching, and superior experience will find ways to beat us.

SAR I

more succinctly, with fitz they can beat most of the mediocre and bad teams but not many of the good teams.  mccags knows this, he's drafted 2 qbs in 2 years and petty will likely get his shot sooner than later if this continues.

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1 minute ago, SAR I said:

Here is the answer that will be difficult for many to grasp:

We are a 4-12 John Idzik disaster in Year #2 Game #1 of a four-year rebuilding project which, through an easy schedule and uncharacteristically high quarterback play, prematurely got to 10 wins last year but wasn't actually a 10 win team.

And while some aspects of the team are ahead of schedule (DL, WR, RB) some areas aren't corrected yet (QB, DB, LB, OL) and so occasionally we will show flashes of strong play, we will often tease against some good teams, but in the end we are an average team at best and will lose painfully when superior teams with superior talent, superior coaching, and superior experience will find ways to beat us.

SAR I

Cincinnati wasn't superior to us yesterday. We beat them handily, made them desperate, and took our eye off the ball. 

We lost focus yesterday, and lost the game. Barely.

I get what you're saying and wouldn't even argue most of it, but I think the hierarchy in the league is much flatter than you suggest in talking about superior teams. We had them where we wanted them. This team is capable of knocking the snot out of a lot of the better teams in the league.

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Jets have added three LBs in the last two years thru the draft to improve team speed, but they're going to take a little time to get up to speed mentally. Meanwhile, the coaching staff is leaning on the DL with their novel 4-3 approach. With time, you'd hope the younger, more athletic group would be better against those annoying screens. 

Hope the Revis issue is temporary. It took a long time for him to recover from that wrist, and I wonder if he's still recovering. Jamming is a huge part of his game. In the meantime I'd (generally) either put him on the #2 WR while doubling the #1, and/or play more zone. 

This is Fitz, and I'm afraid it's only going to get worse. This is also Marshall, he can dominate and he can drop passes -often on back to back plays- it's not going to change. 

Coaching needs to get better. Chan at least made efforts to adjust, didn't see that on the defensive side of the ball. Bowles needs to get better. Bottom line. I like a lot about him, but he needs to improve in all aspects. NFL head coaches are too conservative as a general rule, and Bowles appears to be conservative by those standards. That could be an unfixable issue, or he could (hopefully) just be dealing with the limitations he has in youth and Fitz. 

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1 minute ago, Integrity28 said:

Cincinnati wasn't superior to us yesterday. We beat them handily, made them desperate, and took our eye off the ball. 

We lost focus yesterday, and lost the game. Barely.

I get what you're saying and wouldn't even argue most of it, but I think the hierarchy in the league is much flatter than you suggest in talking about superior teams. We had them where we wanted them. This team is capable of knocking the snot out of a lot of the better teams in the league.

while it has been documented there is enough blame to go around, the reality is that fitz is a bottom tier starter and it's just harder to win with him.  there were no plays over 25 yards.  there is no big play capacity.  they're not playing the fastest wrs they have, and jalin marshall, who may be the best playmaker on the team when all is said and done, is not yet really involved.  they lost by 1, which suggests the teams are nearly even in aggregate, but in reality the weekly disparity at qb means there's way less margin for error in other facets of the game, like kicking and deep coverage.

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1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

while it has been documented there is enough blame to go around, the reality is that fitz is a bottom tier starter and it's just harder to win with him.  there were no plays over 25 yards.  there is no big play capacity.  they're not playing the fastest wrs they have, and jalin marshall, who may be the best playmaker on the team when all is said and done, is not yet really involved.  they lost by 1, which suggests the teams are nearly even in aggregate, but in reality the weekly disparity at qb means there's way less margin for error in other facets of the game, like kicking and deep coverage.

This has nothing to do with the post you quoted from me.

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Just now, Integrity28 said:

This has nothing to do with the post you quoted from me.

you wrote the jets lost b/c they lost focus.  i responded they lost b/c they have the inferior qb.  my apologies for not stating this premise explicitly.

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9 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Here is the answer that will be difficult for many to grasp:

We are a 4-12 John Idzik disaster in Year #2 Game #1 of a four-year rebuilding project which, through an easy schedule and uncharacteristically high quarterback play, prematurely got to 10 wins last year but wasn't actually a 10 win team.

And while some aspects of the team are ahead of schedule (DL, WR, RB) some areas aren't corrected yet (QB, DB, LB, OL) and so occasionally we will show flashes of strong play, we will often tease against some good teams, but in the end we are an average team at best and will lose painfully when superior teams with superior talent, superior coaching, and superior experience will find ways to beat us.

SAR I

I hope it's not a four year project (our fans will run Mac and Bowles out of town way before that's over), but, yeah, this is a rebuilding team. People got way too excited about 10 wins against an extremely weak schedule last season. There's still more roster building and coach growing to do here. 

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31 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

By all accounts, going back to last season and week 17 specifically, these are the recurring problems that lead to losses:

  • Defense cannot close, allows scoring drive in final minutes of 4th quarter and relinquish lead
  • Fitz cannot bail the defense out, in the 4th quarter, with the game on the line, after a momentum shift just stole the lead from us (there have been exceptions to this, but let's face it, he's not the comeback kid)
  • Fitz struggles to get in rhythm early in games
  • Revis cannot be on an "island" with #1 WR
  • Secondary cannot defend wheel routes and bubble screens
  • Marshall makes drops in game-changing moments
  • Defensive coaches don't make good in-game adjustments in coverage
  • Offensive/head coaches don't manage clock well
  • Offensive coaches are generally conservative in red zone, and don't keep their foot on the gas with a lead
  • Folk is missing easy kicks
  • Special teams makes momentum-changing mistakes

I wonder, as I look down this list, how much of it is fixable with improved execution and coaching? The knee-jerk is to cut this guy, and cut that guy... but the reality is, the roster is what it's going to be. As the pre-season fades into the rear view, and reps increase, what can we expect (realistically) to see improvement on?

 

- it wasnt just the end of the 4th, they drove down at the end of the 2nd too.  Hopefully fixable but Bowles doesnt show a whole lot of ability to adjust.

- Fitz cant do a lot of things, unfortunately.  Not fixable.

- Revis retired after he won a SB.  He's punching the clock and cashing in a pay check. Fixable if he decides to care again.

- We drafted a speedy little LB for that exact reason...guess we need more?  I'm going, not fixable because we have a coach who doesnt know how to adjust.

- That's what Marshall does.  He also bails QB's out all the time.  Fixable, nothing to be worried about at all.

- Bowles and Rodger I'm afraid are duds.  They've shown zero ability to adjust the past 2 season.  The last games are perfect examples.  I hope to god this is fixable. 

- Folk missing kicks.  Fixable. 

 

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18 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Actually, there's plenty of evidence of it. He routinely says that young guys have to be eased in. 

Regardless, being loyal to veterans is not the problem. So, who cares?

It was brought up as an issue with Bowles.   I see 2 rookie LBs set to start alongside and 2nd year LB.. New OLmen who aren't long term vets.  Young WRs making the team.  

There is a difference between just playing young guys vs the better player playing.  I'm looking for a vet who has been outplayed by a youn player and is still playing

 

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