Snell41 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 I know, hindsight is 20/20. But reality is not. There is all this idea that you need to temper what you give up to move up in the draft. You cant give away the farm, blah blah blah. Nonsense. Under the current NFL system, you need a franchise QB. Plain and simple. And you do whatever you can and need to do until you find one. You don't pussyfoot trying to find late round gems when your QB is Ryan Fitzpatrick, or anyone who is clearly not a long term viable solution. When a team like CLE is willingly making the collosal mistake of giving away a free opportunity for a potential franchise QB because they're content trying to see if they can hit magic with RG3, you pounce at the chance. There's no way you let PHI outbid us. You give them the rights to Mo Wilk (who is useless to any team without a franchise QB because defense does not win championships with sh*tty QB's) and anything else they wanted to get up to the 2 spot. Mo plus however many draft picks it takes. You do the deal and you draft your future. Hell, I would even go so far as to say this team would be in better shape currently with Wentz at QB at the expense of Mo on D. We couldn't be worse. And we'd be 20+ million under the cap so even though we would have to address more needs in FA with the loss of draft picks, we could make some moves with room to do so. Any FO with eyes should have seen last season was a mirage. I expect fans to be delusional (I'm looking at you 10-6 to 12-4 Nostradamus wannabe's before the season started, you know who you are), but the FO is paid to make moves based on reality. Our FO didn't. They bought into the hype and really thought we could keep being competitive with Fitz while trying to develop coal into diamonds in the meantime. Our future looks terrible right now. Take away this season, I mean our long term. Every game Fitz plays keeps us from having a clear picture of what to do next year to turn this team on the right path. I have liked Mac, but this give me real pause. Bowles issues are coming to light fast, but Mac at least shows promise. But he better pull a rabbit out of his hat real fast, because next year stands to be abominable if Petty and Hack get no time this year and turn out to both be coal next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 We drafted speedy spread the WR's when all along Ryan Fitzpatrick was the plan at QB WE HAVE A MAJOR PROBLEM We draft a QB in round 2 and dont play him while other teams are playing QB's chosen long after him. WE HAVE A PROBLEM Wake up Woody Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkajet01 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 If jets lose next week, time to to play petty, if he sucks then play hack! Have to find out we have with these 2 guys, we already know gino Smith stinksSent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 5 minutes ago, Snell41 said: I know, hindsight is 20/20. But reality is not. There is all this idea that you need to temper what you give up to move up in the draft. You cant give away the farm, blah blah blah. Nonsense. Under the current NFL system, you need a franchise QB. Plain and simple. And you do whatever you can and need to do until you find one. You don't pussyfoot trying to find late round gems when your QB is Ryan Fitzpatrick, or anyone who is clearly not a long term viable solution. When a team like CLE is willingly making the collosal mistake of giving away a free opportunity for a potential franchise QB because they're content trying to see if they can hit magic with RG3, you pounce at the chance. There's no way you let PHI outbid us. You give them the rights to Mo Wilk (who is useless to any team without a franchise QB because defense does not win championships with sh*tty QB's) and anything else they wanted to get up to the 2 spot. Mo plus however many draft picks it takes. You do the deal and you draft your future. Hell, I would even go so far as to say this team would be in better shape currently with Wentz at QB at the expense of Mo on D. We couldn't be worse. And we'd be 20+ million under the cap so even though we would have to address more needs in FA with the loss of draft picks, we could make some moves with room to do so. Any FO with eyes should have seen last season was a mirage. I expect fans to be delusional (I'm looking at you 10-6 to 12-4 Nostradamus wannabe's before the season started, you know who you are), but the FO is paid to make moves based on reality. Our FO didn't. They bought into the hype and really thought we could keep being competitive with Fitz while trying to develop coal into diamonds in the meantime. Our future looks terrible right now. Take away this season, I mean our long term. Every game Fitz plays keeps us from having a clear picture of what to do next year to turn this team on the right path. I have liked Mac, but this give me real pause. Bowles issues are coming to light fast, but Mac at least shows promise. But he better pull a rabbit out of his hat real fast, because next year stands to be abominable if Petty and Hack get no time this year and turn out to both be coal next year. So you want to be Mike Ditka and the Saints. Ok. How many times have I said this, Fitz was going to be resigned here because the fans and media wanted it and if they hadn't they would have been a laughingstock. And I wouldn't worry about drafting for a franchise QB. We'll be high picking this year and the chance will be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 5 minutes ago, joewilly12 said: We drafted speedy spread the WR's when all along Ryan Fitzpatrick was the plan at QB WE HAVE A MAJOR PROBLEM We draft a QB in round 2 and dont play him while other teams are playing QB's chosen long after him. WE HAVE A PROBLEM Wake up Woody Johnson. Wrong. 1000000 times wrong. If you believe Dak Prescott would succeed with this team, you have to be naive. Same thing with Lynch. Goes back to INSTANT GRATIFICATION Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snell41 Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: So you want to be Mike Ditka and the Saints. Ok. How many times have I said this, Fitz was going to be resigned here because the fans and media wanted it and if they hadn't they would have been a laughingstock. And I wouldn't worry about drafting for a franchise QB. We'll be high picking this year and the chance will be there. No. Mike Ditka did that for a Running Back. Running Backs are mostly useless in today's NFL. Franchise QB's are the only thing that matters. Would I do a Ditka trade for a franchise QB? You bet your ass. As we stand today, would you NOT have given CLE more than PHI gave to secure Carson Wentz? Are you nuts? And as for picking high this year, the longer Fitz starts, the more chance the FO might bypass drafting a potential frnachise QB because they "think" they might have one with Hack or Petty. How friggin scary is that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Just now, UnitedWhofans said: Wrong. 1000000 times wrong. If you believe Dak Prescott would succeed with this team, you have to be naive. Same thing with Lynch. Goes back to INSTANT GRATIFICATION Has Hackenburg done a damn thing to improve this team? Just because he was Maccs pick doesn't make it right. We could have used that 2nd round pick on a player who could actually help this team here and now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadFan Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 +1 No price, and I do mean NO price, is too high for opportunity to select a franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Just now, Snell41 said: No. Mike Ditka did that for a Running Back. Running Backs are mostly useless in today's NFL. Franchise QB's are the only thing that matters. Would I do a Ditka trade for a franchise QB? You bet your ass. As we stand today, would you NOT have given CLE more than PHI gave to secure Carson Wentz? Are you nuts? First off the Eagles had a top ten pick so the cost would be more for us because we would not be able to use that chip. They traded 2 1's. A future 2, 3 and a 4. The cost for us would be more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 1 minute ago, joewilly12 said: Has Hackenburg done a damn thing to improve this team? Just because he was Maccs pick doesn't make it right. We could have used that 2nd round pick on a player who could actually help this team here and now. Tell that to the Rams and Jared Goff. Tell that to the Packers when they drafted Aaron Rodgers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snell41 Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: Tell that to the Rams and Jared Goff. Tell that to the Packers when they drafted Aaron Rodgers The Packers had Brett Favre as their QB. Do you know when it's ok to draft 3 years projects? When your current QB is Brett Favre. Ryan Fitzpatrick is not Brett Favre. 5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: First off the Eagles had a top ten pick so the cost would be more for us because we would not be able to use that chip. They traded 2 1's. A future 2, 3 and a 4. The cost for us would be more Yes it would cost more. And we'd still be in a much better position than now. You keep going on about instant gratification. I'm 40 years old, been watching football vividly since 1983. Please tell me when I've been gratified so I can see the source of my impatience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varjet Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Woody told Mac to be competitive, which hopefully Woody realized meant to remain competitive while he rebuilds. In 2015, Bowles and team did a very decent job coaching the team, but needed to improve some areas in 2016 (which they did not). The team really had no QB-they were prepared to go with Geno Smith. They spent an enormous sum of money on a secondary when they had no QB and an aging line. They had a cream puff schedule. The Jets basically got lucky with Fitz, Marshall and a return of almost Revis and won 10 games, but still lost 2x to the Bills. For that reason, and that reason only, the Jets did not make the playoffs. Look at the Bills now with Rex after they fired Greg Roman...... But look at the Jets dysfunction...They hire Idzik, but left him with Rex. Idzik did not provide Rex with the players he needed (cover corners, WRs, a QB), allowing the team to crash. That basically required Rex to fire both of them, and start over. The Jets are now rebuilding. The veteran players they have been counting on, many of whom could not have been cut anyway for cap reasons, have now basically collapsed. This should not have been a surprise-older players basically collapse every year in the NFL. You don't know exactly when it comes, but it comes. We think Mac can get this team rebuilt. He deserves a chance, although his drafting is looking somewhat "meh." Bowles needs support and direction. Do we want the Jets to do their best to beat the weaker teams on their schedule, or start rebuilding? Unfortunately, for league policy reasons they really need to continue to play their best players until the very end of the season, barring injury. They had a choice in who to sign-they could have avoided signing a $12mm 34 year old Fitz and signed instead 26 year old second contract OL, S and CBs. At this point in time Bowles is practicing is coaching and roster management. He has the rest of the year to show that he can put forth a quality coaching effort-I am more concerned about coaching than actual results. In 2017, to the extent the Jets have a reasonable choice, there should be no declining players on their roster. They should make some long-term quality second contract signings, and accumulate draft picks (with 2 exceptions). So no: Ryan Fitzpatrick Geno Smith Kellen Davis David Harris Darrell Revis Marcus Gilcrist Trade Sheldon Richardson and focus on developing 3-4 LBs. Keep Clady and Mangold for at least another year so they can develop an offense with decent OL. Whether they keep Brandon Marshall is a toss up. \ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Big fan of Mangold but his man love for Fitzpatrick is sickening obviously no coaching or scouting in his future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 21 minutes ago, Snell41 said: The Packers had Brett Favre as their QB. Do you know when it's ok to draft 3 years projects? When your current QB is Brett Favre. Ryan Fitzpatrick is not Brett Favre. Yes it would cost more. And we'd still be in a much better position than now. You keep going on about instant gratification. I'm 40 years old, been watching football vividly since 1983. Please tell me when I've been gratified so I can see the source of my impatience? Why is it different? The team isnt expected to go to the Super Bow this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASH1962 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 38 minutes ago, Snell41 said: No. Mike Ditka did that for a Running Back. Running Backs are mostly useless in today's NFL. Franchise QB's are the only thing that matters. Would I do a Ditka trade for a franchise QB? You bet your ass. As we stand today, would you NOT have given CLE more than PHI gave to secure Carson Wentz? Are you nuts? And as for picking high this year, the longer Fitz starts, the more chance the FO might bypass drafting a potential frnachise QB because they "think" they might have one with Hack or Petty. How friggin scary is that! 100% agree - Wonder if Ditka got a free ounce when he did that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snell41 Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 51 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: Why is it different? The team isnt expected to go to the Super Bow this year That's exactly the difference. When Brett Favre is the QB you can have a reasonable expectation of Super Bowl, even if your 1st round QB sits on the bench a few years behind him. We don't have that luxury. We are in no position to sit around waiting for a guy like Hack to take years to MAYBE get it or not. Without knowing by the end of this year what Hack and Petty are truly capable with real bullets flying, we MUST draft a 1st round franchise level QB next year. No Brian Hoyers to come fill the time for Hack to develop, no resigning Fitz for another year, no Jay Cutlet. We need to draft our future The QB position in today's NFL is an absolute must. If you do not have a long term option that can consistently play at a level of at least top 15 level year in and out, you do not have a shot period. None. 85 Bears defense with Fitz? No shot. You are not winning the Superbowl, and you are not creating a long term competitive team. Look at PIT. They obviously don't win every year, and definitely have some bad seasons, but every single season they are viewed as a Superbowl contender. Why? Roethlisberger. Even BAL Even when they stink they are still feared as dangerous because they have Flacco, and Flacco is more on the bottom end of franchise level QB's. You must have a franchise QB to be viable with today's rules that so strongly favor QB's and WR's. Does it help to have a great defense? Sure, when you have a franchise QB. Does it help to have a great RB? Sure, when you have a frnchise QB. None of it matters when you don't have a franchise QB. MIN has had the best RB in modern history and a stout D for years and got nowhere. Add a guy who can play at franchise level and suddenly they are serious SB contenders. We must evaluate Hack and/or Petty right now. Every ounce of time used with either Fitz or Geno is wasted on this franchise. Completely wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 What I would've done was offer Fitzpatrick a 5-7 million dollar deal. If he doesn't take it, we sign Brian Hoyer and have him compete with Geno and Petty for the starting job, and I never draft Hackenberg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 I mourned last week. It was easier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 12 minutes ago, Snell41 said: We must evaluate Hack and/or Petty right now. Every ounce of time used with either Fitz or Geno is wasted on this franchise. Completely wasted. Hack is ruined. He's like a candy bar you left in the car in the summer sun. Can something that's been ruined become un-ruined? We'll find out, but probably not. Petty could be an option if he was healthy, which he's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 10 minutes ago, August said: What I would've done was offer Fitzpatrick a 5-7 million dollar deal. If he doesn't take it, we sign Brian Hoyer and have him compete with Geno and Petty for the starting job, and I never draft Hackenberg. I remember when Brian Hoyer was brought up here and everybody said "eww." "Worse than Fitzpatrick" That's called hindsight. Plus the media was firmly in the pro-Fitzpatrick camp. He would have been slaughtered if he didn't sign him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrace the Suck Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 1 hour ago, UnitedWhofans said: So you want to be Mike Ditka and the Saints. Ok. How many times have I said this, Fitz was going to be resigned here because the fans and media wanted it and if they hadn't they would have been a laughingstock. And I wouldn't worry about drafting for a franchise QB. We'll be high picking this year and the chance will be there. Poor comparison. The Saints drafted a RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Just now, Embrace the Suck said: Poor comparison. The Saints drafted a RB. Nevertheless, would you sacrifice a whole draft for one player, WITHOUT GUARANTEE of his success? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 18 minutes ago, Snell41 said: That's exactly the difference. When Brett Favre is the QB you can have a reasonable expectation of Super Bowl, even if your 1st round QB sits on the bench a few years behind him. We don't have that luxury. We are in no position to sit around waiting for a guy like Hack to take years to MAYBE get it or not. Why not? And how do you know he won't? People dont seem to get that Maccagnan can draft anybody he wants regardless of position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrace the Suck Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Just now, UnitedWhofans said: Nevertheless, would you sacrifice a whole draft for one player, WITHOUT GUARANTEE of his success? Probably not. Of course there are no guarantees though fortune often favors the bold. You give me a choice between steady mediocrity or crashing and burning with a chance of glory and I take the latter each and every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snell41 Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 4 minutes ago, bitonti said: Hack is ruined. He's like a candy bar you left in the car in the summer sun. Can something that's been ruined become un-ruined? We'll find out, but probably not. Petty could be an option if he was healthy, which he's not. Throw Hack out there and let's see. I have no concern for his feelings or long term viability of his career if he doesn't buck up and handle the reigns fast. See you later. If he's that crappy candy bar as you describe then let's find that out right now so we can move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Just now, Embrace the Suck said: Probably not. Of course there are no guarantees though fortune often favors the bold. You give me a choice between steady mediocrity or crashing and burning with a chance of glory and I take the latter each and every time. Mark Sanchez would like a word with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Just now, Snell41 said: Throw Hack out there and let's see. I have no concern for his feelings or long term viability of his career if he doesn't buck up and handle the reigns fast. See you later. If he's that crappy candy bar as you describe then let's find that out right now so we can move on. move on to what? It's week 6 if they bottom out on Hackenberg, who starts the next 10 games? i've talked endless sh*t about Hackenberg but honestly he needs to sit for at least a year, maybe two, before he can get back out there. Penn State David Carr'ed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 2 minutes ago, Snell41 said: Throw Hack out there and let's see. I have no concern for his feelings or long term viability of his career if he doesn't buck up and handle the reigns fast. See you later. If he's that crappy candy bar as you describe then let's find that out right now so we can move on. Why are you in a rush? Do you really think Macc went to BC/Clemson to look at the OL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 And by the way. people believe that they should have drafted a player in the second round who could make immediate impact. WHO? Who do you believe could have impacted this team? Names and positions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 3 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: I remember when Brian Hoyer was brought up here and everybody said "eww." "Worse than Fitzpatrick" That's called hindsight. Plus the media was firmly in the pro-Fitzpatrick camp. He would have been slaughtered if he didn't sign him Oh I remember that very well. I said back then that Hoyer and Fitzpatrick were in the same boat (good backup QB's that can be solid hold the fort starters) it's not hindsight for me I suggested we bring him in back in the offseason. If I were in charge I don't give a damn about what the media and fans think. I wouldn't allow Ryan Fitzpatrick to hold my team hostage, I make him an offer and he either takes it or leaves it and I move on very quickly. I sign Hoyer and he competes with Geno and Petty and the best man wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Just now, August said: Oh I remember that very well. I said back then that Hoyer and Fitzpatrick were in the same boat (good backup QB's that can be solid hold the fort starters) it's not hindsight for me I suggested we bring him in back in the offseason. If I were in charge I don't give a damn about what the media and fans think. I wouldn't allow Ryan Fitzpatrick to hold my team hostage, I make him an offer and he either takes it or leaves it and I move on very quickly. I sign Hoyer and he competes with Geno and Petty and the best man wins. HE would have been roasted by the media, and that makes a difference in New York. Look at ODJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snell41 Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 3 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: Why not? And how do you know he won't? People dont seem to get that Maccagnan can draft anybody he wants regardless of position And what do you suggest we do in the meantime for the next 2 seasons? Go ahead and sign Bryan Hoyer next year? Suck for a couple more years and not address the QB position so we can wait and see if Hack ever develops? To hell with that. Again, the franchise QB search should begin right now. Anything less that committing all resources to beginning next season with a potential franchise QB is a total waste of time. If we don't see that Hack has some viability as such, then he should never have the shot, period. Because if we pass on drafting a franchise QB first round next year simply because the plan is to see if Hack blooms or not, not only should plane be back up in the air with signs, those planes should be dive bombing Hari Kari style into the Florham Park headquarters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said: HE would have been roasted by the media, and that makes a difference in New York. Look at ODJ I agree and ultimately the right move was bringing him back despite how bad that move looks now. The problem now has been sticking with him no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snell41 Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 5 minutes ago, bitonti said: move on to what? It's week 6 if they bottom out on Hackenberg, who starts the next 10 games? i've talked endless sh*t about Hackenberg but honestly he needs to sit for at least a year, maybe two, before he can get back out there. Penn State David Carr'ed him. Petty will be healthy to finish out the season. I'm not concerned with bottoming out Hack. His quotient is so low for success, even long term. Burn his ass out. Again, if he's so mentally fragile that he can't go into a game now, it ain't happening 3 years from now. When did football become a sport of such pussies? Get out there and play. And if you can't, see you later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 5 minutes ago, Snell41 said: And what do you suggest we do in the meantime for the next 2 seasons? Go ahead and sign Bryan Hoyer next year? Suck for a couple more years and not address the QB position so we can wait and see if Hack ever develops? To hell with that. Again, the franchise QB search should begin right now. Anything less that committing all resources to beginning next season with a potential franchise QB is a total waste of time. If we don't see that Hack has some viability as such, then he should never have the shot, period. Because if we pass on drafting a franchise QB first round next year simply because the plan is to see if Hack blooms or not, not only should plane be back up in the air with signs, those planes should be dive bombing Hari Kari style into the Florham Park headquarters. Here's what we do. We play Petty when we are out of it. Geno and Fitz leave. We have a high draft pick. People thinking Maccagnan won't draft another QB are stupid. People believe that Hackenberg will be the symbol of Maccagnan. FALSE 1. That's the Ron Wolf method to play the game. 2. He's already been to a Notre Dame game and a Clemson game. He wasn't going there to look at the running backs. He was there to look at Watson and Kizer. I will bet the shirt off my back that he drafts a QB in the upcoming draft. Now some of the old money starts to leave. Some of the younger players begin to fill in. The fact that so many rookies are playing this year is a great thing. Soon you have a young team with a QB chosen in a competition between Petty, Hackenberg, and the rookie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.