Would Mark Sanchez and Rex do better with this team?

[SAR I]

17 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

No, that's Sanchez taking Moore's legs out and Wilfork pushing Moore over Sanchez.

Any idiot can see that Sanchez ran into Moore:

 

Nope.

SAR I

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, SAR I said:

No, you got the Buttfumble because Brandon Moore got pummeled like a bitch by Vince Wilfork.

Yet another moment by brilliant Jets fans to scapegoat and drive away the best quarterback we've had since Namath.  Geniuses.  Hope you're enjoying the Geno Fitzpatrick show. 

SAR I

You're still trying to sell this to people? 

Explains a lot of your in depth analysis of today's team.

Lol

[Kevin L]

42 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

No, that's Sanchez taking Moore's legs out and Wilfork pushing Moore over Sanchez.

Any idiot can see that Sanchez ran into Moore: 

 

Lol Moore is literally standing in the same spot for about 3 seconds before Sanchez runs into him.

[jeremy2020]

This board is losing it's collective mind.

[CobraVerde]

GET OVER IT. LET IT GO. MOVE ON.

[Villain The Foe]

5 hours ago, PatsFanTX said:

 

98% of the time I agree with you, but seriously, can Geno play any worse than Fitz has this year?

Geno can screw up some plays, but he can deliver more big plays than Fitz. Either give Geno a chance, or go with the 2 kids. Fitz is a no win situation.

BTW, you are not a racist.


 

 

 

5 hours ago, Mecca said:

1/4 of the season is over and I find myself agreeing with PatsFanTX more than 50% of this board. Wow, times have changed.

I'm glad he's back myself. 

[nyjunc]

18 hours ago, NYPaperAirplanes said:

Rex Ryan has coached the Bills to wins over 2 playoff teams and a team on the rise. Meanwhile, Bowles is not going for it on 4th and 2 in the 4th quarter. Fitz threw 9 picks in 2 weeks. Has Mark ever been this embarrassing?

absolutely, we'd be legit contenders in the AFC w/ those 2.  w/o a doubt.

[ScarletKnight89]

We’d be in the exact same spot with Rex and Mark if not worse. Mark Sanchez is the third string QB on his 4^th team now, his 3^rd in less than a year. It’s safe to say he’s an awful player. Nobody wants him in any type of meaningful role. The Broncos didn’t even think he could help mentor Simien and Lynch. A second year seventh round pick and a rookie.

 

Rex might prove to be a better defensive mind than Bowles, but nobody doubts his knowledge of D, and I don’t really doubt Bowles’ either. Rex suffered from a lack of talent his final year here and Bowles is suffering from it this year on the defensive side of the ball. The problem is Rex isn’t a good Head Coach, he’s a good defensive coordinator IMO. He inherited a strong team and that team eventually withered away around him and Tannenbaum.

[JoJoTownsell1]

Rex is  a master motivator and Defensive genius. It's tough to develop a franchise QB with Rex, but you can be sure this team would play with more heart and not let his secondary get torched week in and week out. 

 

[detectivekimble]

13 hours ago, SAR I said:

Nope.

SAR I

You're usually right, but you're dead wrong on this one.

[detectivekimble]

1 hour ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

We’d be in the exact same spot with Rex and Mark if not worse. Mark Sanchez is the third string QB on his 4^th team now, his 3^rd in less than a year. It’s safe to say he’s an awful player. Nobody wants him in any type of meaningful role. The Broncos didn’t even think he could help mentor Simien and Lynch. A second year seventh round pick and a rookie.

 

Rex might prove to be a better defensive mind than Bowles, but nobody doubts his knowledge of D, and I don’t really doubt Bowles’ either. Rex suffered from a lack of talent his final year here and Bowles is suffering from it this year on the defensive side of the ball. The problem is Rex isn’t a good Head Coach, he’s a good defensive coordinator IMO. He inherited a strong team and that team eventually withered away around him and Tannenbaum.

Without getting into Rex, I will say that the talent on defense is solid.  They are underperforming.   

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Rex is  a master motivator and Defensive genius. It's tough to develop a franchise QB with Rex, but you can be sure this team would play with more heart and not let his secondary get torched week in and week out. 

 

A huge fallacy

[ScarletKnight89]

26 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

Without getting into Rex, I will say that the talent on defense is solid.  They are underperforming.   

I think the secondary is overrated and I don't know enough about our LB's yet to feel either way. We have a great D-Line and questions are now coming up about whether or not Wilkerson is playing hard.

Lee and Jenkins are rookie LB's. David Harris is old and slow, Mauldin is a situational pass rusher. Buster Skrine, and Marcus Williams are overrated and Revis isn't the elite player he once was. I think there is legit cause for concern there.

[SAR I]

11 hours ago, detectivekimble said:

You're usually right, but you're dead wrong on this one.

I can't find it on YouTube, but if you watch the Chris Collinsworth call of the play and the replays, it's very clear that Moore got owned, Sanchez started to slide, Wilfork saw Sanchez coming, Wilfork threw Moore into Sanchez.

I realize Mark Sanchez has to be blamed for everything that ever went wrong in the Rex Ryan era so this is an unpopular truth.

SAR I

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

13 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I can't find it on YouTube, but if you watch the Chris Collinsworth call of the play and the replays, it's very clear that Moore got owned, Sanchez started to slide, Wilfork saw Sanchez coming, Wilfork threw Moore into Sanchez.

I realize Mark Sanchez has to be blamed for everything that ever went wrong in the Rex Ryan era so this is an unpopular truth.

SAR I

Neat. Was Brandon Moore the one aiming Sanchez's passes also?

[Scott Dierking]

On October 12, 2016 at 7:52 PM, PatsFanTX said:

 

Two questions:

1). How did the Mets do this year? (Who the f*uck gives a crap about MLB? Soccer is more exciting).

2). How many murders in your great city this week?
 

 

TX, that exchange you had with SAR was embarrassing even for you.

[Kevin L]

7 hours ago, SAR I said:

I can't find it on YouTube, but if you watch the Chris Collinsworth call of the play and the replays, it's very clear that Moore got owned, Sanchez started to slide, Wilfork saw Sanchez coming, Wilfork threw Moore into Sanchez.

I realize Mark Sanchez has to be blamed for everything that ever went wrong in the Rex Ryan era so this is an unpopular truth.

SAR I

 

[SAR I]

8 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Neat. Was Brandon Moore the one aiming Sanchez's passes also?

History shows that:

1.  Brian Schottenheimer was not a good offensive coordinator.
2.  Tony Sparano was completely unqualified.
3.  Mike Tannenbaum was not a good general manager.
4.  Rex Ryan was not a good head coach.
5.  Mark Sanchez was never the same after his season-ending shoulder injury.

What we will never know is what Mark Sanchez might have become if he had the right support system around him.  Few QB's in NFL history got off to a start as promising as he did, he was all you could have asked for in a 22 year old, and the team did nothing to develop him or give him the tools to succeed.  He's a used car now, no point in talking about his ability in 2016, but if you go back to Spring 2011 and look at what the Jets did from flirting with Manning to signing Tebow to failing to replace targets like Edwards and Burress and Tomlinson and Keller to bringing in Tony Sparano as an offensive coordinator to putting Mark into the fourth quarter of a preseason game, it's really one of the biggest tragedies in team history.  We will never know what might have been if we had better FO and coaching focus and talent.

SAR I

[ZachEY]

On 10/12/2016 at 10:46 PM, SAR I said:

You're kidding, right?  Wilfork picked Moore up like a rag doll and threw him into the sliding Sanchez. 

Moment of impact, Wilfork has Moore off the ground and is flinging him at Sanchez.

SAR I

Sanchez?  Sliding?  Adorable.

[SAR I]

5 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Sanchez?  Sliding?  Adorable.

The play busted as the OL was being overpowered.
Sanchez decides to run for it.
Sanchez sees Moore being thrown into his path.
Sanchez slides but it's too late.

If I were Mark Sanchez I would not have made the decision to slide under 700 pounds of defensive and offensive blubber, but the point is if Moore does his job and neutralizes Wilfork the Buttfumble never happens.  To use this as some sort of indictment against Sanchez is pathetic, look at the running game and the defense on that team.  We were build to win on a shutdown D and ground and pound O and we were neither.  Very similar to this year where fans want to scapegoat the QB when he was never meant to be the focus of the team, was supposed to be a complimentary game manager.

SAR I

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

The play busted as the OL was being overpowered.
Sanchez decides to run for it.
Sanchez sees Moore being thrown into his path.
Sanchez slides but it's too late.

If I were Mark Sanchez I would not have made the decision to slide under 700 pounds of defensive and offensive blubber, but the point is if Moore does his job and neutralizes Wilfork the Buttfumble never happens.  To use this as some sort of indictment against Sanchez is pathetic, look at the running game and the defense on that team.  We were build to win on a shutdown D and ground and pound O and we were neither.

SAR I

This is a guy we literally brought Joe Girardi in to try to convince/teach him to slide in obvious slide situations, and you're trying to sell that he's now sliding in the backfield?  No less, in a situation where the video, at best, cannot show it conclusively, and at worst, doesn't show that at all.

Also, no one is using the buttfumble as the indictment of Sanchez.  His career does a nice enough job on that.  The buttfumble is just an apt metaphor.

[SAR I]

4 minutes ago, gEYno said:

This is a guy we literally brought Joe Girardi in to try to convince/teach him to slide in obvious slide situations, and you're trying to sell that he's now sliding in the backfield?  No less, in a situation where the video, at best, cannot show it conclusively, and at worst, doesn't show that at all.

Also, no one is using the buttfumble as the indictment of Sanchez.  His career does a nice enough job on that.  The buttfumble is just an apt metaphor.

No, the irony is that the very week the fanbase is melting down over Geno Smith being a pathetic bust and Ryan Fitzpatrick being a pathetic starter all one has to do is reflect upon the best quarterback prospect we drafted since Namath and how the Jets screwed it up and how the fans were snakecharmed by Rex Ryan into believing our failures were the singular fault of the quarterback.

SAR I

[ZachEY]

15 minutes ago, SAR I said:

No, the irony is that the very week the fanbase is melting down over Geno Smith being a pathetic bust and Ryan Fitzpatrick being a pathetic starter all one has to do is reflect upon the best quarterback prospect we drafted since Namath and how the Jets screwed it up and how the fans were snakecharmed by Rex Ryan into believing our failures were the singular fault of the quarterback.

SAR I

Sanchez was considered by many who actually reviewed his college career to not be a very good prospect, actually.  And his stats, both advanced and traditional spoke to that too.  Would the Jets have won the Super Bowl with another QB?  Maybe.  But, you're selling a narrative where people are buying what Rex is saying, or where Rex is the victim?  I'm not sure I've read that here.

Rex was a coach who understood defense, but not offense or game management.  He inherited a loaded team, unsustainably purchased by Mike Tannenbaum, which didn't have a Quarterback.  They traded up for a guy who with the amount of starts he had in college, would have been unprecedented, if he were to have succeeded.  They started Sanchez despite his extremely limited number of college starts.  Still, Rex's and Sanchez's flaws were able to be hidden by the talent level in years 1 and 2.  When the bill came due for Tannenbaum's reckless spending, both Rex's and Sanchez's flaws came front and center, and neither were able to elevate to the level necessary.  All three are gone, and for good reason.  That's the narrative of the Rex Ryan/Mark Sanchez Jets.

[Integrity28]

36 minutes ago, SAR I said:

History shows that:

1.  Brian Schottenheimer was not a good offensive coordinator.
2.  Tony Sparano was completely unqualified.
3.  Mike Tannenbaum was not a good general manager.
4.  Rex Ryan was not a good head coach.
5.  Mark Sanchez was never the same after his season-ending shoulder injury.

What we will never know is what Mark Sanchez might have become if he had the right support system around him.  Few QB's in NFL history got off to a start as promising as he did, he was all you could have asked for in a 22 year old, and the team did nothing to develop him or give him the tools to succeed.  He's a used car now, no point in talking about his ability in 2016, but if you go back to Spring 2011 and look at what the Jets did from flirting with Manning to signing Tebow to failing to replace targets like Edwards and Burress and Tomlinson and Keller to bringing in Tony Sparano as an offensive coordinator to putting Mark into the fourth quarter of a preseason game, it's really one of the biggest tragedies in team history.  We will never know what might have been if we had better FO and coaching focus and talent.

SAR I

Careful, you're infringing upon the Geno argument. While I agree with some of what you're saying, hypotheticals are just that... hypotheticals. We could have done everything right with him, and he could have hypothetically tore his achilles in the first game of what should have been our SB season.

 

[ScarletKnight89]

52 minutes ago, SAR I said:

History shows that:

1.  Brian Schottenheimer was not a good offensive coordinator.
2.  Tony Sparano was completely unqualified.
3.  Mike Tannenbaum was not a good general manager.
4.  Rex Ryan was not a good head coach.
5.  Mark Sanchez was never the same after his season-ending shoulder injury.

What we will never know is what Mark Sanchez might have become if he had the right support system around him.  Few QB's in NFL history got off to a start as promising as he did, he was all you could have asked for in a 22 year old, and the team did nothing to develop him or give him the tools to succeed.  He's a used car now, no point in talking about his ability in 2016, but if you go back to Spring 2011 and look at what the Jets did from flirting with Manning to signing Tebow to failing to replace targets like Edwards and Burress and Tomlinson and Keller to bringing in Tony Sparano as an offensive coordinator to putting Mark into the fourth quarter of a preseason game, it's really one of the biggest tragedies in team history.  We will never know what might have been if we had better FO and coaching focus and talent.

SAR I

Disagree.

 

The team won in spite of Sanchez. Mark was awful in 2009 and was supported by a strong running game, a very good defense, and a light schedule. The team won 9 games and he won 8 of them. In 2010 he definitely got better but once again had a very good group of players around him. When the team tried to put more on Mark he fell apart because he wasn’t capable of handling it.

 

He wasn’t even a good game manager as he was way to mistake prone. I’ll never forget that game in Denver in 2011 when the defense was simply dominating the game the whole time holding on to a 10 point lead or something like that. All Sanchez had to do was not turn the ball over. They were dominating field position and everything. He didn’t even have to put points on the board. Just maybe pickup a first down or two, the Jets would punt and Denver with Tebow at QB couldn’t do anything. And what did he do? He let Denver right back in the game by throwing a brutal pick 6. Then Tebow goes on his miraculous drive at the end of the game, and the Jets lose. Now Sanchez supporters will point to the D letting Tim Tebow go 80 plus yards on them to cost the game, but it’s what led up to that which is the problem. Sanchez couldn’t put points on the board all night, and then lets Denver back in the game with a terrible pick 6.

 

I mean how many times did we have to watch this guy throw picks to defensive lineman? I just look at Sanchez as a guy who improved from year to year 2 and then never got any better. He never learned. Did the Jets play a role in helping him fail. I'm sure they did. Tebow was a huge mistake, they flirted with Peyton like you said. But they probably did those things because they had major concerns about their current QB.

 

When you draft somebody 5^th overall you should feel entitled to more than what he gave the Jets from 2009-2012.

[SAR I]

18 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Sanchez was considered by many who actually reviewed his college career to not be a very good prospect, actually.  And his stats, both advanced and traditional spoke to that too.  Would the Jets have won the Super Bowl with another QB?  Maybe.  But, you're selling a narrative where people are buying what Rex is saying, or where Rex is the victim?  I'm not sure I've read that here.

Rex was a coach who understood defense, but not offense or game management.  He inherited a loaded team, unsustainably purchased by Mike Tannenbaum, which didn't have a Quarterback.  They traded up for a guy who with the amount of starts he had in college, would have been unprecedented, if he were to have succeeded.  They started Sanchez despite his extremely limited number of college starts.  Still, Rex's and Sanchez's flaws were able to be hidden by the talent level in years 1 and 2.  When the bill came due for Tannenbaum's reckless spending, both Rex's and Sanchez's flaws came front and center, and neither were able to elevate to the level necessary.  All three are gone, and for good reason.  That's the narrative of the Rex Ryan/Mark Sanchez Jets.

I'm with you on all of this, right down to the he wasn't a great college prospect part.  I get it.

But in February of 2011 we had a quarterback that just finished an 11-5 season with several clutch comebacks, had four road playoff wins, who elevated his play on the biggest postseason stages, and who was looking like a player with real potential had we invested in a top-notch offensive coordinator and the type of receivers he lost.

Mark Sanchez was not Dan Marino or Dan Fouts, but for what Rex Ryan was trying to do, and for what Todd Bowles is trying to do to this day, having a young QB as a game manager who can step up when needed in big spots and in the postseason while letting the dominant D and powerful RB do their jobs, he was a great fit and a great prospect.  Would Mark have been better in 2011 and 2012 with the right OC and NFL caliber WR's?  Certainly.  Might Mark have matured from a 22 year old baby into a better player with age?  Probably.  Would someone playing like Mark Sanchez did in 2009 and 2010 leading an 18-4 run be better than Ryan Fitzpatrick is playing today?  Definitely.

That's my point about the irony of this conversation this week.  We need a quarterback exactly like Mark Sanchez circa 2010 right now and we had him before we screwed it all up.

SAR I

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Few QB's in NFL history got off to a start as promising as he did]

lmao

[Sperm Edwards]

23 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Careful, you're infringing upon the Geno argument. While I agree with some of what you're saying, hypotheticals are just that... hypotheticals. We could have done everything right with him, and he could have hypothetically tore his achilles in the first game of what should have been our SB season.

 

Infringing upon? It's the exact same argument.

Then again, he's been trolling the board with this to such absurd lengths that I doubt he even believes 10% of it himself. 

[Integrity28]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Infringing upon? It's the exact same argument.

Then again, he's been trolling the board with this to such absurd lengths that I doubt he even believes 10% of it himself. 

I was giving him space to work by wording it that way.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

I was giving him space to work by wording it that way.

AGENDA!!!  

[SAR I]

16 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

 

The team won in spite of Sanchez. Mark was awful in 2009 and was supported by a strong running game, a very good defense, and a light schedule. The team won 9 games and he won 8 of them. In 2010 he definitely got better but once again had a very good group of players around him. When the team tried to put more on Mark he fell apart because he wasn’t capable of handling it.

 

You should have stopped your post right there.  Listen to what you're saying and remember the type of defense we were supposed to have (we didn't) and what type of running game we were supposed to have (we didn't) in 2011 and 2012. 

When you commit to trying to win with the 1985 Bears defense and the 1963 Browns rushing attack as your model and those two units fail you are forced to try to win it in the air and Mark Sanchez wasn't Dan Fouts, and Tony Sparano, Clyde Gates and Chas Schillens weren't Air Coryell and we had to throw 50 times a game and that led a guy who was supposed to be a game manager with comeback ability to play out of position and turn into an interception machine.

The problem with those Jets, and the problem with today's Jets, is that we can't win the way we are supposed to and so we have no choice but to throw too much at the passing game and the quarterback isn't capable of it.  We didn't draft Peyton Manning in Mark Sanchez, we didn't sign Joe Montana in Ryan Fitzpatrick, yet this fanbase holds them both accountable to these ridiculous standards instead of focusing on the real issues.

SAR I

[FidelioJet]

Sanchez is better than Fitz. 

[ZachEY]

14 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I'm with you on all of this, right down to the he wasn't a great college prospect part.  I get it.

But in February of 2011 we had a quarterback that just finished an 11-5 season with several clutch comebacks, had four road playoff wins, who elevated his play on the biggest postseason stages, and who was looking like a player with real potential had we invested in a top-notch offensive coordinator and the type of receivers he lost.

Mark Sanchez was not Dan Marino or Dan Fouts, but for what Rex Ryan was trying to do, and for what Todd Bowles is trying to do to this day, having a young QB as a game manager who can step up when needed in big spots and in the postseason while letting the dominant D and powerful RB do their jobs, he was a great fit and a great prospect.  Would Mark have been better in 2011 and 2012 with the right OC and NFL caliber WR's?  Certainly.  Might Mark have matured from a 22 year old baby into a better player with age?  Probably.  Would someone playing like Mark Sanchez did in 2009 and 2010 leading an 18-4 run be better than Ryan Fitzpatrick is playing today?  Definitely.

That's my point about the irony of this conversation this week.  We need a quarterback exactly like Mark Sanchez circa 2010 right now and we had him before we screwed it all up.

SAR I

But, Mark Sanchez was by no means a game manager.  In fact, since his entrance into the league, no one has a higher turnover/game ratio.  Would we be better off today with him then Fitz?  Maybe.  Would we be good?  No evidence to suggest that.

[Integrity28]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

AGENDA!!!  

My agenda, is that I have no agenda. Other than my agenda, to see the dummies whipped into a frenzy... so, I guess it's a form of appreciation.

[Savage69]

29 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Sanchez was considered by many who actually reviewed his college career to not be a very good prospect, actually.  And his stats, both advanced and traditional spoke to that too.  Would the Jets have won the Super Bowl with another QB?  Maybe.  But, you're selling a narrative where people are buying what Rex is saying, or where Rex is the victim?  I'm not sure I've read that here.

Rex was a coach who understood defense, but not offense or game management.  He inherited a loaded team, unsustainably purchased by Mike Tannenbaum, which didn't have a Quarterback.  They traded up for a guy who with the amount of starts he had in college, would have been unprecedented, if he were to have succeeded.  They started Sanchez despite his extremely limited number of college starts.  Still, Rex's and Sanchez's flaws were able to be hidden by the talent level in years 1 and 2.  When the bill came due for Tannenbaum's reckless spending, both Rex's and Sanchez's flaws came front and center, and neither were able to elevate to the level necessary.  All three are gone, and for good reason.  That's the narrative of the Rex Ryan/Mark Sanchez Jets.

Other then Revis,Mangold,Harris and Brick who were the other great players?? Jenkins played a total of 7 games for Rex in 2 years. Leon was gone after 7 games.. The D line had a 32 year old Ellis,Pouha who was considered a bust,Mike Devito and CJ Mosley.. Plus no QB what a loaded team a Head coaches dream no doubt, even better then the loaded team that Bill Walsh left George Seifert with 2 HOF QB's Montana and Young..