Win or lose, aging Jets headed toward offseason makeover

[joewilly12]

27 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

The Fitz signing is the worst move that McCagnan has ever made. Signing Mo is not better, and signing Forte was flat stupid. As was the money he gave Revis. Macc does seem better at drafting but his pro-personnel moves have been pretty awful.

This guy gets it.  We had so many other glaring needs and we spent all off season being held hostage buy a bum QB and ignored other weaknesses on the team hoping often injured bums who failed miserably elsewhere would resurrect careers here. 

Same old Jets I dont care who disagrees. 

Macc and Bowles arent the answer.

[CrazyCarl40]

10 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

This guy gets it.  We had so many other glaring needs and we spent all off season being held hostage buy a bum QB and ignored other weaknesses on the team hoping often injured bums who failed miserably elsewhere would resurrect careers here. 

Same old Jets I dont care who disagrees. 

Macc and Bowles arent the answer.

Fitz didn't hold anyone hostage. The Jets allowed all of it to happen. And I still have yet to see one post of any impact players the Jets missed out on because they were waiting out Fitz. It's just a false narrative. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Im not looking forward to a 1-15 season but honestly if it costs a few jobs then so be it. We need to weed out incompetent coaches and players and move on. 

We/re not going 1-15.  Stop already.

No one can change his opinion of coaches, players and team faster than you.  

[joewilly12]

33 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Fitz didn't hold anyone hostage. The Jets allowed all of it to happen. And I still have yet to see one post of any impact players the Jets missed out on because they were waiting out Fitz. It's just a false narrative. 

Wrong the Jets opted to hold out for Fitzpatrick instead of addressing other glaring needs CB,RB we were scared to get involved in any big names because of the QB situation caused by Fitzpatrick and the fact our GM and head coach couldn't just move on from him. 

Fitzpatrick sat on the couch while other players worked hard and trained hard to get better. 

[joewilly12]

10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

We/re not going 1-15.  Stop already.

No one can change his opinion of coaches, players and team faster than you.  

STOP what makes you think we arent going 1-15?  What have you seen from this coaching staff or players that gives you any hope to win another game?  

What are you watching on Sundays and in what state of mind. Get out of the sun. 

My opinion is what it is based on whats being presented by the NY Jets no sugar no cherry on top the pure facts based on the 1-4 start. 

[jamesr]

16 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Wrong the Jets opted to hold out for Fitzpatrick instead of addressing other glaring needs CB,RB we were scared to get involved in any big names because of the QB situation caused by Fitzpatrick and the fact our GM and head coach couldn't just move on from him. 

Fitzpatrick sat on the couch while other players worked hard and trained hard to get better. 

Matt Forte wasn't a big name at RB??

[joewilly12]

4 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Matt Forte wasn't a big name at RB??

Matt Forte was a very questionable acquisition older RB his name was big but his production is and was obviously down or he would still be in Chicago so far not a game changer here. 

We always seem to sign the older superstar veteran who many teams passed on hoping for unimaginable results.

[CrazyCarl40]

28 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Wrong the Jets opted to hold out for Fitzpatrick instead of addressing other glaring needs CB,RB we were scared to get involved in any big names because of the QB situation caused by Fitzpatrick and the fact our GM and head coach couldn't just move on from him. 

Fitzpatrick sat on the couch while other players worked hard and trained hard to get better. 

The Jets signed Forte and Khiry Robinson. What CB would they have brought in? They drafted Burris and thought they already had enough money tied up at CB. Name a free agent they missed out on because they chose to play cat and mouse with Fitz. Blame Fitz for poor play all you want, but the decision to wait all offseason and to bring him back is on the front office. 

Also, I highly doubt you know the inner workings of what Fitz did and did not do this offseason to prepare himself to get ready.  

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

The Jets signed Forte and Khiry Robinson. What CB would they have brought in? They drafted Burris and thought they already had enough money tied up at CB. Name a free agent they missed out on because they chose to play cat and mouse with Fitz. Blame Fitz for poor play all you want, but the decision to wait all offseason and to bring him back is on the front office. 

Also, I highly doubt you know the inner workings of what Fitz did and did not do this offseason to prepare himself to get ready.  

Forte and Robinson both risky players to fill your RB position Robinson was injury prone and Forte aging. 

Fitz looks like he did nothing in the offseason. I do remember seeing something about a Rubik's cube no reports of anything football related, 

[CrazyCarl40]

53 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Forte and Robinson both risky players to fill your RB position Robinson was injury prone and Forte aging. 

Fitz looks like he did nothing in the offseason. I do remember seeing something about a Rubik's cube no reports of anything football related, 

So Fitz is at fault for how the front office filled the running back void now too? That's rich. 

And again, you know nothing about what he did this offseason. 

[southparkcpa]

7 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Maybe he doesn't like Todd Bowles or Kacey Rodgers or both being they both suck and the D is terrible because of them,ever think of that. 

Sure knock our Hall of Fame CB thats the spirit of a real fan.

He happens to be right.   Mevis could give a shot at this point.   

[maury77]

7 hours ago, drdetroit said:

We have been looking for a safety who could cover since we got rid of Victor Green in 2001.

 

Sam Garnes, Eric Smith, Jim Leonhard, Pryor, Gilchrist -  they all sucked and literally any tight end has been able to abuse us for 15 friggin years now

 

 

Just move Revis to safety.  So sick of watching garbage at that position over and over and over and over

Kerry Rhodes was decent for a few years. 

[New York Mick]

7 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

I'm really psyched that 15 months into our rebuild, we're forecasting that we need to rebuild.

 

[jack48]

8 hours ago, SAR I said:

Marshall and Mangold stay, Clady restructures. 

Can't wait for Harris and Revis to be gone.  They're the overpaid, lazy stalwarts of a defense that for a decade that doesn't show up for big games and can't make a big stop late to save a game.  Good riddance.

SAR I

I do not think Harris is lazy nor do I question his effort.  He is just slow.  Always has been slow but he is much slower.  Revis is fat. No excuse

[jack48]

1 hour ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

So Fitz is at fault for how the front office filled the running back void now too? That's rich. 

And again, you know nothing about what he did this offseason. 

If Fitzz was simply average we would have 2 wins.  We have one.  If he keeps going at his present pace we will have 4 at season's end.  QBs are important

[Sperm Edwards]

8 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

You left out a word, I think.

But yes, I've tried to get many here to wrap their heads around the idea of high-cost positions as it relates to the draft, to no (or little) avail.

You don't think it's brilliant use of assets to use high picks on:

1. Huge DE when we already have two (but then proceed to keep all 3 for at least the next 2 - and possibly the next 3 - seasons)
2. Safety at pick #18 (cheap FA position)
3. ILB (or coverage more than pass rushing OLB) at pick #20 (cheap FA position)
4. TE at pick #49 (cheap FA position)

Then for CB we use a 4th rounder, RT we use next year's 4th rounder (5th round this year), true OLBs we use only 3rd rounders, and of course QB we don't touch until the bottom of round 2 (at which time we take a prospect expected to go in round 4), or round 4 outright.

If there's any type of "Moneyball" rationale to ranking prospects in the draft, which there should be for any GM, we're doing the polar opposite of it. Watch us draft a TE in round 1 or 2 in April, so we can continue trying to fill the most expensive positions with FAs instead of through the draft. 

[Sperm Edwards]

7 hours ago, chirorob said:

Marshall at 7.5 is good value.

Honestly, Clady at 10 isn't that bad for a good left tackle on a deal with no dead money going forward. 

Revis at 13 base is awful

Clady isn't going to be $10M he's going to be $13M. He has a $3M escalator, undoubtedly reached by making it through the season.

[Sperm Edwards]

7 hours ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Wow, Mo counts 18m on the cap next year and we could easily have over 10m in dead cap space next year (Fitz 5m + cuts) after 12m in dead space this year (Brick, Dee, Kerley)

 

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-jets/

Aren't you glad we pissed away another $5M by PUPing Giacomini instead of just cutting him at the end of August? Like anyone was going to sign him for anywhere near that if he truly needed another month of rest (plus then he hasn't seen any live action since last season).

It's easy (if not obvious) cap-saving moves like this that prevent me from being highly confident in our GM being more than a checkers player.

[Sperm Edwards]

5 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Fitz didn't hold anyone hostage. The Jets allowed all of it to happen. And I still have yet to see one post of any impact players the Jets missed out on because they were waiting out Fitz. It's just a false narrative. 

When you want $12M more for an impact player next year, remember this.

[SenorGato]

The shelf life of an NFL roster and carrer is too short to care too much about the age of starters. Roster turnover for everyone, young and old, is a major thing every year. QB is such a big deal partially because the rules make it possible to have the same starter there much longer than other positions. 

[CrazyCarl40]

1 hour ago, jack48 said:

If Fitzz was simply average we would have 2 wins.  We have one.  If he keeps going at his present pace we will have 4 at season's end.  QBs are important

What does this have to do with anything in the current conversation? 

[CrazyCarl40]

31 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

When you want $12M more for an impact player next year, remember this.

I'm talking about this season. Worry about 2017 when 2017 gets here. That's what the front office seems to be doing. They're wasting a lot more money on other players and positions than the QB right now. 

[drdetroit]

2 hours ago, maury77 said:

Kerry Rhodes was decent for a few years. 

One in 15 years

 

I'm so sick of watching every tight end or Rb carve up our defense.  David Johnson is going to feast on our secondary because this franchise thinks it's ok to trot out crap at safety

 

[drdetroit]

1 hour ago, jack48 said:

If Fitzz was simply average we would have 2 wins.  We have one.  If he keeps going at his present pace we will have 4 at season's end.  QBs are important

If Fitz isnt the nfl's worst starting qb he is very close

[drdetroit]

25 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

The shelf life of an NFL roster and carrer is too short to care too much about the age of starters. Roster turnover for everyone, young and old, is a major thing every year. QB is such a big deal partially because the rules make it possible to have the same starter there much longer than other positions. 

As long as Clady, Mangold and Marshall are effective they are staying.  

[Sperm Edwards]

8 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I'm talking about this season. Worry about 2017 when 2017 gets here. That's what the front office seems to be doing. They're wasting a lot more money on other players and positions than the QB right now. 

That is a decidedly poor way of GMing an NFL franchise. 

[no psls]

All season ticket holders should get a refund if these f-ckers are rebuilding again !!!!!!!!!!!

[T0mShane]

[joewilly12]

3 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

So Fitz is at fault for how the front office filled the running back void now too? That's rich. 

And again, you know nothing about what he did this offseason. 

So Carl tell us how was Macc's off season was we are 1-4 the team is in disarray it seems we didnt really do much to improve from last  year right,remember Carl we were 10-6 you were dancing goosing your neighbors you were growing a beard and wearing a #14 Fitzpatrick jersey my how a year has changed us huh Carl. 

[CrazyCarl40]

37 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

That is a decidedly poor way of GMing an NFL franchise. 

Agreed, but that's how they're operating right now, obviously.

10 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

So Carl tell us how was Macc's off season was we are 1-4 the team is in disarray it seems we didnt really do much to improve from last  year right,remember Carl we were 10-6 you were dancing goosing your neighbors you were growing a beard and wearing a #14 Fitzpatrick jersey my how a year has changed us huh Carl. 

I didn't particularly care for the way they handled the offseason or the draft. All I was saying was that the front office chose the way they handled the offseason. Not Fitz. He had nothing to do with it. 

Also, I always grow a beard and that has nothing to do with Fitz. I don't have his jersey and I certainly don't goose my neighbors. I'm not Donald Trump. 

[dbatesman]

17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Glorious. 

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, jack48 said:

I do not think Harris is lazy nor do I question his effort.  He is just slow.  Always has been slow but he is much slower.  Revis is fat. No excuse

Let me start by saying that I realize that David Harris is a classy guy, he's unselfish, he plays hurt, he's everything you want in a player as a great person.  I also realize he's a fan favorite.

That said, he's the quarterback of the defense, has been since the Eric Mangini era, and there is a funny thing that keeps happening to our defense for the past 10 years and he's been in the middle of all of it-  we can't make a big stop when we need to, we can't win a game on defense, if the opponents have the ball it's always bad news in the fourth quarter.

From Mangini to Ryan to Bowles, from Sutton to Pettine to Thurman to Rodgers, no matter who is running our defense it's always the same.  Don't show up for big games, can't shut down a killer drive late.  It's a cultural thing, it's a locker room thing, it's the guys lacking leadership, it's David Harris.

SAR I

[Integrity28]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You don't think it's brilliant use of assets to use high picks on:

1. Huge DE when we already have two (but then proceed to keep all 3 for at least the next 2 - and possibly the next 3 - seasons)
2. Safety at pick #18 (cheap FA position)
3. ILB (or coverage more than pass rushing OLB) at pick #20 (cheap FA position)
4. TE at pick #49 (cheap FA position)

Then for CB we use a 4th rounder, RT we use next year's 4th rounder (5th round this year), true OLBs we use only 3rd rounders, and of course QB we don't touch until the bottom of round 2 (at which time we take a prospect expected to go in round 4), or round 4 outright.

If there's any type of "Moneyball" rationale to ranking prospects in the draft, which there should be for any GM, we're doing the polar opposite of it. Watch us draft a TE in round 1 or 2 in April, so we can continue trying to fill the most expensive positions with FAs instead of through the draft. 

Preaching to the converted. Glad I'm not the only one that sees it.

[Powpow]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You don't think it's brilliant use of assets to use high picks on:

1. Huge DE when we already have two (but then proceed to keep all 3 for at least the next 2 - and possibly the next 3 - seasons)
2. Safety at pick #18 (cheap FA position)
3. ILB (or coverage more than pass rushing OLB) at pick #20 (cheap FA position)
4. TE at pick #49 (cheap FA position)

Then for CB we use a 4th rounder, RT we use next year's 4th rounder (5th round this year), true OLBs we use only 3rd rounders, and of course QB we don't touch until the bottom of round 2 (at which time we take a prospect expected to go in round 4), or round 4 outright.

If there's any type of "Moneyball" rationale to ranking prospects in the draft, which there should be for any GM, we're doing the polar opposite of it. Watch us draft a TE in round 1 or 2 in April, so we can continue trying to fill the most expensive positions with FAs instead of through the draft. 

In other words, Mac is clueless.

[Sperm Edwards]

17 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Preaching to the converted. Glad I'm not the only one that sees it.

Yeah it's been a sore point with me as well. 

For as many fans that claim, "Oh yeah well these guys are the professionals and you're not, therefore they know better," they fail to realize title does not connote competence, or even particular intelligence. 

I don't think Maccagnan (nor Idzik) is duh-duh stupid at all, and in fairness they have good company across the league (e.g. GMs drafting guards with top 10 picks). But this is a fairly elementary thing a casual fan can see. 

Look at that Seattle SB team. If there's anything to take from it, other than the obvious need for a QB, it's that a team that fills some expensive positions cheaply has a disproportionate advantage. It doesn't have to be Wilson & Sherman barely making a combined $1M type of cheap, but if it was triple that apiece (i.e. 1st rd $) it's no less of a bargain, in practical terms, on a cap over $160M. 

So who do we draft? The 3 cheapest every-down positions on the football field. Only ones less are FB, K, and P (but then they're not every down positions). 

Sickening that this appears lost on him.