Win or lose, aging Jets headed toward offseason makeover

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I'm not as harsh on him as most, but lolwut?

[T0mShane]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm not as harsh on him as most, but lolwut?

If I put in Leonard Williams it'd kill the joke.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If I put in Leonard Williams it'd kill the joke.

As would noting that Winters is the 2nd best guard on the team under 30. Also that Decker will never again play a single snap under the age of 30. . 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

As would noting that Winters is the 2nd best guard on the team under 30. Also that Decker will never again play a single snap under the age of 30. . 

Why do you hate Kermit? 

[Sperm Edwards]

23 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Why do you hate Kermit? 

I'm an anti-ribbite. So sue me.

[ljr]

13 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Yes get rid of Revis because Williams and all the other scrubs have played CB so well here this year its all Revis's fault my prediction the Geno hate goes to Revis next. 

But Revis has no Weaponz in the secondary to help him

[CanadaSteve]

14 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Maybe he doesn't like Todd Bowles or Kacey Rodgers or both being they both suck and the D is terrible because of them,ever think of that. 

Sure knock our Hall of Fame CB thats the spirit of a real fan.

I think SAR is knocking him because his play has sucked, HOF CB or not.

[MetsJets1962]

Looks like LT or CB in round 1. 

Or another QB

[King P]

20 hours ago, FTL Jet Fan said:

Looks like LT or CB in round 1. 

Or Leonard Fournette 

[FTL Jet Fan]

3 hours ago, MetsJets1962 said:

Or another QB

Hopefully 

[JoJoTownsell1]

I think many of those moves were happening whether we went 10-6 or 6-10. 

[jack48]

14 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

What does this have to do with anything in the current conversation? 

You are the one who mentioned Fitz and fault.

[jack48]

12 hours ago, SAR I said:

Let me start by saying that I realize that David Harris is a classy guy, he's unselfish, he plays hurt, he's everything you want in a player as a great person.  I also realize he's a fan favorite.

That said, he's the quarterback of the defense, has been since the Eric Mangini era, and there is a funny thing that keeps happening to our defense for the past 10 years and he's been in the middle of all of it-  we can't make a big stop when we need to, we can't win a game on defense, if the opponents have the ball it's always bad news in the fourth quarter.

From Mangini to Ryan to Bowles, from Sutton to Pettine to Thurman to Rodgers, no matter who is running our defense it's always the same.  Don't show up for big games, can't shut down a killer drive late.  It's a cultural thing, it's a locker room thing, it's the guys lacking leadership, it's David Harris.

SAR I

It is not laziness

[jack48]

14 hours ago, drdetroit said:

If Fitz isnt the nfl's worst starting qb he is very close

I know he went to Harvard.  So maybe he was the best they had. But just watching him throw, who ever told him he was a QB.  He is  so often behind or too short or too long or not even close.  It boggles my mind how bad a passer he is.  And it speaks volumes about the dearth of QB talent in the league the last decade.  His physical skills are really poor.  I mean, Chad had a chicken wing but he could thread it.

[SAR I]

8 minutes ago, jack48 said:

It is not laziness

Perhaps, but it's a lack of focus, a lack of intensity, a lack of urgency, no killer instinct.  3 head coaches, 4 defensive coordinators, dozens of impressionable high draft picks, it's the same old lousy defense that doesn't show up for big games and can never make that big fourth quarter stop and David Harris has been there for it all, every single snap, making the calls, making the adjustments.

If David Harris was a different type of individual who had a nasty streak in him, a bit more like Ray Lewis or Ronnie Lott or Richard Sherman, perhaps we go to a Super Bowl during the 10 year's he's been here.

SAR I

[CrazyCarl40]

1 hour ago, jack48 said:

You are the one who mentioned Fitz and fault.

In regards to roster management and free agent choices. Come on. A little reading comprehension please. 

[LIJetsFan]

11 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah it's been a sore point with me as well. 

For as many fans that claim, "Oh yeah well these guys are the professionals and you're not, therefore they know better," they fail to realize title does not connote competence, or even particular intelligence. 

I don't think Maccagnan (nor Idzik) are duh-duh stupid at all, and in fairness they have good company across the league (e.g. GMs drafting guards with top 10 picks). But this is a fairly elementary thing a casual fan can see. 

Look at that Seattle SB team. If there's anything to take from it, other than the obvious need for a QB, it's that a team that fills some expensive positions cheaply has a disproportionate advantage. It doesn't have to be Wilson & Sherman barely making a combined $1M type of cheap, but if it was triple that apiece (i.e. 1st rd $) it's no less of a bargain, in practical terms, on a cap over $160M. 

So who do we draft? The 3 cheapest every-down positions on the football field. Only ones less are FB, K, and P (but then they're not every down positions). 

Sickening that this appears lost on him. 

So for you it's BPA BUT filtered by "every-down position" cost.  Seems like a good approach.  I like the money ball concept and this is sure one aspect of it that can be applied to the NFL.  

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Perhaps, but it's a lack of focus, a lack of intensity, a lack of urgency, no killer instinct.  3 head coaches, 4 defensive coordinators, dozens of impressionable high draft picks, it's the same old lousy defense that doesn't show up for big games and can never make that big fourth quarter stop and David Harris has been there for it all, every single snap, making the calls, making the adjustments.

If David Harris was a different type of individual who had a nasty streak in him, a bit more like Ray Lewis or Ronnie Lott or Richard Sherman, perhaps we go to a Super Bowl during the 10 year's he's been here.

SAR I

Years back I wanted the Jets to draft Vontaez Burfict give that defense some character some attitude. 

[LIJetsFan]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Perhaps, but it's a lack of focus, a lack of intensity, a lack of urgency, no killer instinct.  3 head coaches, 4 defensive coordinators, dozens of impressionable high draft picks, it's the same old lousy defense that doesn't show up for big games and can never make that big fourth quarter stop and David Harris has been there for it all, every single snap, making the calls, making the adjustments.

If David Harris was a different type of individual who had a nasty streak in him, a bit more like Ray Lewis or Ronnie Lott or Richard Sherman, perhaps we go to a Super Bowl during the 10 year's he's been here.

SAR I

SAR I, your two Harris posts do have the ring of truth to them.  While Harris has been a tackling machine, he surely is the only common denominator of our defensive woes.  Happily we should be moving on from him in 2017.  Seems like one more issue Bowles is incapable of addressing, so maybe Mac will by releasing him.   

Hey, coincidently, Harris is doubtful this week with a hamstring.  Let's see how the D does w/o him.       

[joewilly12]

6 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

SAR I, your two Harris posts do have the ring of truth to them.  While Harris has been a tackling machine, he surely is the only common denominator of our defensive woes.  Happily we should be moving on from him in 2017.  Seems like one more issue Bowles is incapable of addressing, so maybe Mac will by releasing him.        

Hard pressed to look at that defense on paper and not see better results. 

What the hell is Bowles doing does he even know what the hell he is doing? 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

16 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Aren't you glad we pissed away another $5M by PUPing Giacomini instead of just cutting him at the end of August? Like anyone was going to sign him for anywhere near that if he truly needed another month of rest (plus then he hasn't seen any live action since last season).

It's easy (if not obvious) cap-saving moves like this that prevent me from being highly confident in our GM being more than a checkers player.

Breno played it well, he should get an Emmy, have to think there was some injury settlement language or it does raise concern about our FO, that seemed like an easy decision at the end of last year

 also strange that they did not even talk to Mangold about his reworking his contract

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

22 hours ago, johnnysd said:

The Fitz signing is the worst move that McCagnan has ever made. Signing Mo is not better, and signing Forte was flat stupid. As was the money he gave Revis. Macc does seem better at drafting but his pro-personnel moves have been pretty awful.

Sure looks that way now but at 4-1 those contracts would have looked better, it seemed like a great boost to team moral after Mo and Fitz were signed, the team was pumped up going into training camp... (seems so long ago)

and I have always thought that Revis was paid to represent the Jets in the hall of fame (all Woody)

[JohnnyLV]

3 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Sure looks that way now but at 4-1 those contracts would have looked better, it seemed like a great boost to team moral after Mo and Fitz were signed, the team was pumped up going into training camp... (seems so long ago)

and I have always thought that Revis was paid to represent the Jets in the hall of fame (all Woody)

For the record, I said the same things back before the signings. I would have definitely traded Mo, and never even considered bringing Fitz back. Think of the fact we could have signed Hoyer at like $1.5 million. The Jets right now should be under the cap and have 10 pick going into 2017 with several compensatory coming, instead we are over the cap, down a pick and have no answer at QB. Starting to worry that Mac is a good drafter, but too focused on trying to rebuild and be competitive at same time. We needed to blow things up/.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

52 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

For the record, I said the same things back before the signings. I would have definitely traded Mo, and never even considered bringing Fitz back. Think of the fact we could have signed Hoyer at like $1.5 million. The Jets right now should be under the cap and have 10 pick going into 2017 with several compensatory coming, instead we are over the cap, down a pick and have no answer at QB. Starting to worry that Mac is a good drafter, but too focused on trying to rebuild and be competitive at same time. We needed to blow things up/.

I know, I think a lot of people including me, got caught up in the hype after the 10 win season, it had been so long since the Jets were even watchable that last year was fun (even with the classic Jets ending), it would have been hard to blow it up but thinking this team had one more run is looking like a mistake, Fitz bet on himself and lost, Brandon Marshall lost his Porsche and next year is looking like much of the same unless they do blow it up or hit on a franchise QB (draft or FA or Petty/Hack)

[drdetroit]

2 hours ago, jack48 said:

I know he went to Harvard.  So maybe he was the best they had. But just watching him throw, who ever told him he was a QB.  He is  so often behind or too short or too long or not even close.  It boggles my mind how bad a passer he is.  And it speaks volumes about the dearth of QB talent in the league the last decade.  His physical skills are really poor.  I mean, Chad had a chicken wing but he could thread it.

The season is over we should get a chance to see the other 3 qb's 

 

 

Otherwise this season will be an even bigger waste of time than it already is

[UnitedWhofans]

CB 

OL

Fournette 

QB

[Sperm Edwards]

5 hours ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Breno played it well, he should get an Emmy, have to think there was some injury settlement language or it does raise concern about our FO, that seemed like an easy decision at the end of last year

 also strange that they did not even talk to Mangold about his reworking his contract

I can get past not reworking Mangold. He's not getting progressively better, and the only likely ways to lower his cap number are to get him to agree to a pay cut (fat chance) or to extend him (i.e. pay him more but allocate some present payments it to future years' caps). The latter may seem like a good idea, but that same logic would have trapped us into another year or two of Ferguson well past his expiration date. Great as Mangold was, and good as he still is, each passing year is a guess as to how much worse he was the prior season. Maybe it'll be significant, and maybe it'll be 0% (or a negligible difference). But he's not going to get better as years go on.

Breno, I doubt that very much. He had to be well past his guaranteed money portion in his contract, even in cases of injury. This was just probably as simple as it looks on paper. They didn't know what they had in his backups, and if they got through these first 6 games intact where the playoffs were realistic, they wanted to have him back.

Thing is, he wasn't that good beforehand, and now he's going to be rusty on top of that (if he even is fully healed after the PUP period ends). So if they'd gotten that far in his absence against the brutal start, why is he so necessary when it's time for the easy stretch of the season? Not only necessary, but necessary to the tune of $500K per game IF he starts immediately as of week 7 (even more per game if he's not fully up to speed until weeks 7-8).

It's just another added to the list of myopic decisions made by our GM. 

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I can get past not reworking Mangold. He's not getting progressively better, and the only likely way to lower his cap number is to get him to agree to a pay cut (fat chance) or to extend him (i.e. pay him more but allocate some present payments it to future years' caps). The latter may seem like a good idea, but that same logic would have trapped us into another year or two of Ferguson well past his expiration date. Great as Mangold was, and good as he still is, each passing year is a guess as to how much worse he was the prior season. Maybe it'll be significant, and maybe it'll be 0% (or a negligible difference). But he's not going to get better as years go on.

Breno, I doubt that very much. He had to be well past his guaranteed money portion in his contract, even in cases of injury. This was just probably as simple as it looks on paper. They didn't know what they had in his backups, and if they got through these first 6 games intact where the playoffs were realistic, they wanted to have him back.

Thing is, he wasn't that good beforehand, and now he's going to be rusty on top of that (if he even is fully healed after the PUP period ends). So if they'd gotten that far in his absence against the brutal start, why is he so necessary when it's time for the easy stretch of the season? Not only necessary, but necessary to the tune of $500K per game IF he starts immediately as of week 7 (even more per game if he's not fully up to speed until weeks 7-8).

It's just another added to the list of myopic decisions made by our GM. 

Breno was signed by Idzik. So I don't know what decision was made by macc towards him

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Breno was signed by Idzik

So?

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So?

So what myopic decision are you taking about?

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

So what myopic decision are you taking about?

Since I know you can't read, and merely look for conflict, I'll indulge you.

The decision to keep Giacomini: putting him on the PUP list, instead of cutting him outright, was myopic. That's actually flattering him, since the other alternative is that it was just flat-out stupid.

[UnitedWhofans]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Since I know you can't read, and merely look for conflict, I'll indulge you.

The decision to keep Giacomini: putting him on the PUP list, instead of cutting him outright, was myopic. That's actually flattering him, since the other alternative is that it was just flat-out stupid.

I thought he was on IR

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

I thought he was on IR

No. We PUPed him.

[LIJetsFan]

On 10/15/2016 at 8:34 PM, SAR I said:

Let me start by saying that I realize that David Harris is a classy guy, he's unselfish, he plays hurt, he's everything you want in a player as a great person.  I also realize he's a fan favorite.

That said, he's the quarterback of the defense, has been since the Eric Mangini era, and there is a funny thing that keeps happening to our defense for the past 10 years and he's been in the middle of all of it-  we can't make a big stop when we need to, we can't win a game on defense, if the opponents have the ball it's always bad news in the fourth quarter.

From Mangini to Ryan to Bowles, from Sutton to Pettine to Thurman to Rodgers, no matter who is running our defense it's always the same.  Don't show up for big games, can't shut down a killer drive late.  It's a cultural thing, it's a locker room thing, it's the guys lacking leadership, it's David Harris.

SAR I

Here's an interesting fact thru the first 5 games: 

Rookie LB  Darron Lee  has been racking up some nice numbers through his first five games as a pro. Lee, not  David Harris  for a change, leads the Jets in tackles — 32 from the coaches' video breakdown, 28 from pressbox stats. He's notched a half-sack, three tackles for loss, three more for no gain. And he got his first pro pass defense last Sunday on a third-quarter Ben Roethlisberger throw from the Jets 29.

http://www.newyorkjets.com/news/article-randylangefb/Inside-the-Numbers-Give-D-Lee-the-PD/c7637376-1064-4bb5-b99e-db075ec6ba7c

 

[Gas2No99]

4 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

Here's an interesting fact thru the first 5 games: 

Rookie LB  Darron Lee  has been racking up some nice numbers through his first five games as a pro. Lee, not  David Harris  for a change, leads the Jets in tackles — 32 from the coaches' video breakdown, 28 from pressbox stats. He's notched a half-sack, three tackles for loss, three more for no gain. And he got his first pro pass defense last Sunday on a third-quarter Ben Roethlisberger throw from the Jets 29.

http://www.newyorkjets.com/news/article-randylangefb/Inside-the-Numbers-Give-D-Lee-the-PD/c7637376-1064-4bb5-b99e-db075ec6ba7c

 

 

Starting OLB/MLB 2002-2004: Sam Cowart wally pipped by

Starting MLB 2004-2007: Jon Vilma wally pipped by (also bad 3-4 scheme fit)

Starting MLB 2007-present: David Harris.

So I put my $ on Darron Lee growing into the MLB role as the season progresses and Harris misses time with injury and age. #52 won't be here next year. Point is for the MLB position, the incumbent is no longer on the team the following year once the replacement has been added to the team. So Thank you HitMan, thank you and I'll appreciate your most likely last season with the Green and White.