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Will you actually develop respect for Woody if...


drdetroit

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Just now, RSJ said:

 

Ron Rivera, Bill Parcells, Tom Coughlin, Bill Belicheck (Cleveland), all started slow. It's actually harder to find a good head coach that was winning Super Bowls in his second year. And yes I dont count college. If Saban came back and won in the NFL, I would not consider his time at Alabama the reason.

Brandon Marshall drops some key balls and his ability to improve a locker room or huddle is questionable at best. Its no coincidence that he has never been to the playoffs, even on a younger and better version of the Jets offense just a few short years ago. Decker was good in the slot for sure. He was bad outside, which is why I don't consider them a great "duo" They had great numbers - but they both don't play opposite outside from each other.

Look, I am all on your side next year this time if Bowles is having the same problems. But I highly doubt it will be the case. Mac has been smarter than credited. There are lots of solid vets on this roster that can be renegotiated or let go. Clady can probably be renegotiate and put at RT or Guard. Then they can draft a G or LT. Marshall can be let go for Enunwa. Revis can be renegotiated and moved to FS or used as a #2 CB while they draft or sign another. Those moves plus others like them, another solid draft and finding a solid QB that doesnt turn the ball over and the team should be headed in the right direction. 

Again, in some cases you are conflating bad teams with bad coaching of good or even halfway decent teams. 

Maccagnan might be the most overrated GM in the NFL. All he did was spend money. Like that takes any stroke of genius. Now you're seeing the result of that. We have a good half-dozen starters (3 of them on the OL) that will not be here under their current contracts or are FAs outright, and at best he can clear about $30M. And we're already short our 4th round pick next year that we used on Shell.

If Petty turns into a good QB I will forgive a ****load of his mistakes, because it's all about the QB. 

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4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Again, in some cases you are conflating bad teams with bad coaching of good or even halfway decent teams. 

Maccagnan might be the most overrated GM in the NFL. All he did was spend money. Like that takes any stroke of genius. Now you're seeing the result of that. We have a good half-dozen starters (3 of them on the OL) that will not be here under their current contracts or are FAs outright, and at best he can clear about $30M. And we're already short our 4th round pick next year that we used on Shell.

If Petty turns into a good QB I will forgive a ****load of his mistakes, because it's all about the QB. 

So did MC Hammer. Look where it got him. Spending money alone doesn't make you smart. It's how you spend your money. And in this case, he spent his money and mostly short term contracts that will be gone in a year or two, so that by that time, his draft picks will have hopefully developed into starters and bingo! A young team. 

Instead of doing what the Yankees did (different sport, but they now seem to act as if they are under a cap) and give out long term deals to old veterans (Ellsbury, McCann, ARod) The Jets did it the smart way. ANd he got bang for his buck by winning 10 games last year. 

The reason no one is blaming Maccagnan for this is

A: They agreed with the moves he made before the season and to back out now would make them hypocrits (Not that that would stop some of them)

B: Recognizing that the talent here does not represent their record (As a lot of people said about last year)

That is not overrated.

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1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Again, in some cases you are conflating bad teams with bad coaching of good or even halfway decent teams. 

Maccagnan might be the most overrated GM in the NFL. All he did was spend money. Like that takes any stroke of genius. Now you're seeing the result of that. We have a good half-dozen starters (3 of them on the OL) that will not be here under their current contracts or are FAs outright, and at best he can clear about $30M. And we're already short our 4th round pick next year that we used on Shell.

If Petty turns into a good QB I will forgive a ****load of his mistakes, because it's all about the QB. 

What else did you want Mac to do in that situation? You wanted him to hit on all 7 of his draft picks instead? That 2014 roster was horrible. 2/3 of those guys arent even in the NFL anymore. By getting contracts he can get out of in two years alone tells me he knew these were band aids to cover up a bad roster until he can catch up with drafting and signing UDFA's.

Hey, I am not even asking that Petty or Hack are pro bowlers. Solid QB's that dont turn it over a million times would go a long way for me too.

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Maccagnan was smart enough to realize that if he did a full rebuild, he'd be out the door in two years like Idzik.

So he has to balance. It's very simple

Let's look at Jerry Reese. He spent 200m on the defense of the Giants. They are currently 3-3, and in last place of the division. Is he getting Executive of the Year?

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15 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

So what do you want to do ban him from the league. His play Monday night was not so horrible. He just didn't effectively move the team. Geno Smith wasn't exactly lights out the other night either. Two turnovers in a few minutes. Look I'm rooting for him and for us to win. I'm not rooting for Fitz to win the job back But in all honesty I don't see Geno keeping this job. If he does then ok.. My question. If he stinks and Bowles takes Geno out will he be a gentleman and good teammate about it. Or act the way he did on Monday night and being a me first player.  

A turnover isn't really a turnover unless the ball actually turns over to the other team. As far as Geno getting pulled , who cares how he acts, at that point he'd be finished with the Jets. Plus so much is being made up about his bad behavior on the sidelines, the guy wants to play - nothing wrong with that.

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I think on the issue of Fitz' collapse this year, Macc is probably good with Woody, because I am sure Woody was right there when it was agreed to sign Fitz for one year at $12mm.  Macc really did not want him.  My guess is that Woody pushed that because he was worrying about the fans, the media and tanking the season.

My guess is that Macc knew that, with the receivers on the roster and letting Ivory go, although at times it would be ugly, and they would likely make the playoffs, a combination of the 3 QBs throwing downfield would likely lead to the same non-playoff result as Fitz's game.  But I hope Macc appreciated that Fitz' 10 wins against the Jets' schedule last year was going to be much, much more difficult to duplicate this year.

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22 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

A turnover isn't really a turnover unless the ball actually turns over to the other team. As far as Geno getting pulled , who cares how he acts, at that point he'd be finished with the Jets. Plus so much is being made up about his bad behavior on the sidelines, the guy wants to play - nothing wrong with that.

No if you're a leader and the Qb is supposed to be a leader you support your teammates on the field even if you are not in the game. I mean he fumbled and threw a pick in just a few series. That's not good. But he'll get a game on Sunday and hopefully he'll play well. I expect Fitz to be helping him on the sideline and not acting like a baby because he isn't playing. 

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7 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

You mean they weren't prepared to go with petty as the #2. Geno was going to be the starter if fitz wasn't signed, despite what the geno haters believe in their little world. If fitz wasn't signed jets still pick up a vet. This was the plan all along. Mac knew fitz and geno were both equally bad. If geno was a FA and fitz was signed, they still would have picked a NFL experienced qb for the #2.  Petty was the #3 no matter what. Hackenberg the #4. Bowles has pretty much said hackenberg will not see the field this yr. 

I don't know if it mattered.  It behooved the Jets to find out what they had on the roster before going into the draft, if that included getting more datapoints on Geno Smith running a Chan Gailey offense so be it. 

Remember, back in July before Fitzpatrick signed the only glimpse into Bryce Petty wasn't a good one.  I was at training camp on one of the early days and he looked terrible, my son and I were talking to each other wondering if he were going to get cut, the local reporters were all saying the same.  But a week later on the field in preseason games he really turned that around and looked very sharp by the Washington game. 

Point being, at the moment the Fitzpatrick resigning decision was being made in July all the Jets knew was that Petty was looking weak, Hackenberg was a multi-year project, and therefore Geno Smith was someone they could not rule out.  And by the time camp broke and the preseason was over, Petty showed enough to imagine him as Fitzpatrick's backup and Geno getting cut.  The Petty injury led to keeping four quarterbacks as a result.

That's how I see it.

SAR I

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23 minutes ago, RSJ said:

What else did you want Mac to do in that situation? You wanted him to hit on all 7 of his draft picks instead? That 2014 roster was horrible. 2/3 of those guys arent even in the NFL anymore. By getting contracts he can get out of in two years alone tells me he knew these were band aids to cover up a bad roster until he can catch up with drafting and signing UDFA's.

Hey, I am not even asking that Petty or Hack are pro bowlers. Solid QB's that dont turn it over a million times would go a long way for me too.

Overpaying for production, and drafting 4th round QBs in round 2, tells me he thought these players were better than they are. He hit on Carpenter (who wasn't even the guy he wanted) and...Carpenter.

What contracts are those that he can get out of? Paying Revis $6M to be off the team? Skrine carrying a $5M cap charge if cut? 

Getting out of it is a relative concept, anyway. Simply not paying someone a salary in the future doesn't remove the knowledge that their past salary could have been used on players he knew he wanted past 2016 (or paying down in advance). Instead, he lowered the cap numbers of such players so they balloon in 2017+ (Carpenter, for example). Then he delayed clearing up more space by cutting players too late, like he's going to do with Giacomini. Would be nice to have another $5M next year, instead of paying it to Breno in 2016, yes?

We're sitting at about $170M next year (those cap pages don't account for Clady's incentives) on a roughly $165M cap limit. On the one hand, a number of players can be cut to lower that (including Clady). On the other hand, each one you want to cut creates yet another hole that needs to be filled immediately. Let's try it here:

Exercise all this flexibility you think he's provided. Clady ($13M), Giacomini ($4.5M), Revis ($10M), Skrine ($3.5M), Harris ($6.5M), Gilchrist ($5.5M). Now you've got $43M in cap space (minus any you want to keep) to fill the following roster spots: QB, FB, LT, RG, RT, OLB/outside passrusher, ILB, CB1, CB2 (maybe Burris?), NB, FS. That's 11 starters, including the most expensive positions, assuming Seferian-Jenkins starts next year. The main reasons you don't have to add a few WR positions there are because Chicago offered him Brandon Marshall for cheap and he inherited Decker & Enunwa.

Go show me how you're doing all that in one offseason - his 3rd already - with $43M of cap room and 3 draft picks in the first 4 rounds. Or is the plan to just borrow more of the following year's cap space again to clear up another 10? He'll keep some of his bad pickups, and fill others, but this roster will still have serious problems and he'll borrow even more from 2017 than he already has just to get that far.

He's an amateur. And it shows.

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5 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

It would make no sense to cut Fitz. And they have to pay his salary anyways. It would make sense to trade him but no market for that salary after his poor performances. I don't know if the Jets could trade Fitz and pick up a substantial amount of that remaining money. Like split it with the team they would deal him to. There could be a market then esp with Qbs going down like flies. If Geno plays well he has the job at least for this season. But if he doesn't Fitz is next man up. I can't see Bowles going with Geno if he lays an egg over the next two games. He is not an established Qb a guy you would give multiple games to. And I do believe Fitz can play better than this. He wasn't terrible in every game including last week. But when you can't move the offense you have to try something different.  So for Geno fans: stop rooting for Geno over the team. You try out in pre-season not regular season. If the season is a total wash in Dec. you might give Petty and Hack some starts. Esp. Petty. 

Lol dude come back reality..Read an article, even Bowles has said fitz likely won't play again. Unless geno gets hurt right away. Petty is going to come in next if geno isn't showing enough. If he isn't that means we are losing more and it's just audition time for 2017. By that I mean petty and maybe hackenberg also. Not audition time for Ryan Fitzpatrick in hopes another team picks him up next yr. So it's very unlikely he plays again.. So it would make some sense to cut him, if he is going to be moping around for rest of the yr on the bench..

Trade him ?? Lol jets would love to.. pay some of his salary ? More like all of it.. still no one would want him. Why would a team trade for the worst qb in the league ? As for 2016 at least.. 

fitz is done here, probably also done for his career..

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1 hour ago, varjet said:

I think on the issue of Fitz' collapse this year, Macc is probably good with Woody, because I am sure Woody was right there when it was agreed to sign Fitz for one year at $12mm.  Macc really did not want him.  My guess is that Woody pushed that because he was worrying about the fans, the media and tanking the season.

My guess is that Macc knew that, with the receivers on the roster and letting Ivory go, although at times it would be ugly, and they would likely make the playoffs, a combination of the 3 QBs throwing downfield would likely lead to the same non-playoff result as Fitz's game.  But I hope Macc appreciated that Fitz' 10 wins against the Jets' schedule last year was going to be much, much more difficult to duplicate this year.

I dont think that. I think he didn't want him at 12m.

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39 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Overpaying for production, and drafting 4th round QBs in round 2, tells me he thought these players were better than they are. He hit on Carpenter (who wasn't even the guy he wanted) and...Carpenter.

What contracts are those that he can get out of? Paying Revis $6M to be off the team? Skrine carrying a $5M cap charge if cut? 

Getting out of it is a relative concept, anyway. Simply not paying someone a salary in the future doesn't remove the knowledge that their past salary could have been used on players he knew he wanted past 2016 (or paying down in advance). Instead, he lowered the cap numbers of such players so they balloon in 2017+ (Carpenter, for example). Then he delayed clearing up more space by cutting players too late, like he's going to do with Giacomini. Would be nice to have another $5M next year, instead of paying it to Breno in 2016, yes?

We're sitting at about $170M next year (those cap pages don't account for Clady's incentives) on a roughly $165M cap limit. On the one hand, a number of players can be cut to lower that (including Clady). On the other hand, each one you want to cut creates yet another hole that needs to be filled immediately. Let's try it here:

Exercise all this flexibility you think he's provided. Clady ($13M), Giacomini ($4.5M), Revis ($10M), Skrine ($3.5M), Harris ($6.5M), Gilchrist ($5.5M). Now you've got $43M in cap space (minus any you want to keep) to fill the following roster spots: QB, FB, LT, RG, RT, OLB/outside passrusher, ILB, CB1, CB2 (maybe Burris?), NB, FS. That's 11 starters, including the most expensive positions, assuming Seferian-Jenkins starts next year. The main reasons you don't have to add a few WR positions there are because Chicago offered him Brandon Marshall for cheap and he inherited Decker & Enunwa.

Go show me how you're doing all that in one offseason - his 3rd already - with $43M of cap room and 3 draft picks in the first 4 rounds. Or is the plan to just borrow more of the following year's cap space again to clear up another 10? He'll keep some of his bad pickups, and fill others, but this roster will still have serious problems and he'll borrow even more from 2017 than he already has just to get that far.

He's an amateur. And it shows.

That's what a depth chart is for. Its the Patriots way. Like a factory line. 

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5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Cheating is the Patriots way.

A bit yes, but depth is key. 

You replace guys leaving with guys already on the roster. Here's the defense next year

3 DL: Wilkerson, Williams, McClendon

4 LB: Jenkins, Lee, Henderson, Carter

Secondary: Burris, Revis (FS), Pryor, Skrine, Williams, Roberts, Martin, (Draft Pick)

Offense

QB: Petty, Hackenberg, (Draft Pick or Vet)

RB: Forte, Powell

OL: Mangold, Clady, Carpenter, Winters (Draft Pick)

WR: Marshall, Decker, Enunwa, Peake, Anderson

TE: ASJ, (Draft Pick)

 

 

 

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Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

A bit yes, but depth is key. 

You replace guys leaving with guys already on the roster. Here's the defense next year

3 DL: Wilkerson, Williams, McClendon

4 LB: Jenkins, Lee, Henderson, Carter

Secondary: Burris, Revis (FS), Pryor, Skrine, Williams, Roberts, Martin,

Offense

QB: Petty, Hackenberg, (Draft Pick or Vet)

RB: Forte, Powell

OL: Mangold, Clady, Carpenter, Winters (Draft Pick)

WR: Marshall, Decker, Enunwa, Peake, Anderson

TE: ASJ, (Draft Pick)

 

 

 

OK outline the free agent contracts of this still sucky and very expensive team.

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2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

OK outline the free agent contracts of this still sucky and very expensive team.

The only FA's they really can need is a vet backup QB and maybe a CB.. OL too.

But the draft is the key. 

Also with a year of experience, the rookies will be less sucky than this year.

 

 

 

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Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

The only FA's they really can need is a vet backup QB and maybe a CB.. OL too.

But the draft is the key. 

 

 

 

So you're keeping Ryan Clady at $13M, bringing back Winters as a FA even though you say he's not a FA, and drafting an instant-starter as a rookie at RT. 

lol

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41 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Lol dude come back reality..Read an article, even Bowles has said fitz likely won't play again. Unless geno gets hurt right away. Petty is going to come in next if geno isn't showing enough. If he isn't that means we are losing more and it's just audition time for 2017. By that I mean petty and maybe hackenberg also. Not audition time for Ryan Fitzpatrick in hopes another team picks him up next yr. So it's very unlikely he plays again.. So it would make some sense to cut him, if he is going to be moping around for rest of the yr on the bench..

Trade him ?? Lol jets would love to.. pay some of his salary ? More like all of it.. still no one would want him. Why would a team trade for the worst qb in the league ? As for 2016 at least.. 

fitz is done here, probably also done for his career..

Look you can say whatever you want. I didn't see anything about Bowles saying that Fitz isn't going to play. If so show me the link. He also said that Fitz was starting against Balt and then changed his mind. Or had it changed for him. I'm not rooting for Fitz to regain his job. That is if Geno plays well and that's a big if. I'm hoping for a W on Sundy no matter who the Qb is even Geno. 

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7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So you're keeping Ryan Clady at $13M, bringing back Winters as a FA even though you say he's not a FA, and drafting an instant-starter as a rookie at RT. 

lol

Well since you didn't list the FA's, I was not aware of them.

But WInters will probably not a get a big deal, Slauson got a 2 year 3m deal with San Diego this year.

As for a rookie RT, why not? We're going to have a high draft pick. And I completely forgot about Qvale and Ijilana, both of which are not FAs.

Currently, the Jets are 11m over the salary cap projected for next year. Breno and Harris cut basically eliminates that.

 

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8 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Look you can say whatever you want. I didn't see anything about Bowles saying that Fitz isn't going to play. If so show me the link. He also said that Fitz was starting against Balt and then changed his mind. Or had it changed for him. I'm not rooting for Fitz to regain his job. That is if Geno plays well and that's a big if. I'm hoping for a W on Sundy no matter who the Qb is even Geno. 

lol I never said Bowles said fitz is not going to play.. I said " likely wont." I can't find what I saw, but these two articles show a clear picture what is the jets thinking. Petty is going to be the next one up in a few weeks.. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.si.com/nfl/2016/10/19/ryan-fitzpatrick-benched-future-jets-qb-geno-smith%3famp=1?client=safari

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nj.com/articles/19508043/when_might_jets_bryce_petty_be_ready_to_play_if_ge.amp?client=safari

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1 hour ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

lol I never said Bowles said fitz is not going to play.. I said " likely wont." I can't find what I saw, but these two articles show a clear picture what is the jets thinking. Petty is going to be the next one up in a few weeks.. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.si.com/nfl/2016/10/19/ryan-fitzpatrick-benched-future-jets-qb-geno-smith%3famp=1?client=safari

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nj.com/articles/19508043/when_might_jets_bryce_petty_be_ready_to_play_if_ge.amp?client=safari

Look let's see how things work out. Maybe we can win some games. Again this is on Geno. He's getting another chance to show what he can or can't do.

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On 10/20/2016 at 5:48 PM, FidelioJet said:

No..because he shouldn't...I would have more respect if he sticks with him and gives him the chance to grow into the role.  This was a choice he made and he needs to give it time.

Agreed.

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19 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Cheating is the Patriots way.

Based on your screen name and moniker, other than a kool aid drinking fan you are to be taken seriously?

Perhaps you should present your screen name and image to some students and gauge their reaction. Hmmmm.

Such a simple answer to a very complex and highly successful team.

 

 

Moderator indeed.

 

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48 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Let Winters go give himself concussions elsewhere

He's ok. Nothing great but what I like is he's getting better, rather than he's bad and we know what his ceiling is by now. Also he's cheap. If he was $7M per season then there's millions more reasons more to complain about him. 

 

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