Your 2016-2017 New York Knicks Thread!!!

[Matt39]

38 minutes ago, SMC said:

Nets gave Otto Porter $106M, whose been less productive than Timmy and is from the same draft class.  The funny thing is that the media praised the Porter offer sheet, but has criticized Timmy's offer sheet.

Both should be considered crazy, but you cant praise the Porter one and criticize the Timmy one.

The Nets are the other worst team in the NBA besides the Knicks. 

[gqxluvx]

1 hour ago, SMC said:

Nets gave Otto Porter $106M, whose been less productive than Timmy and is from the same draft class.  The funny thing is that the media praised the Porter offer sheet, but has criticized Timmy's offer sheet.

Both should be considered crazy, but you cant praise the Porter one and criticize the Timmy one.

Sure you can.  

1. Porter is a better player.  His metrics are off the chart. 106 million is absurd but NBA money is absurd.  

2.  The Nets do not have control of their pick next year so this is one of the only ways they can acquire young talent.  (this and trade i.e. Russell)

3.  The Knicks got rid of THJ only to throw 71 million at him to bring him back?

 

[Matt39]

12 minutes ago, gqxluvx said:

Sure you can.  

1. Porter is a better player.  His metrics are off the chart. 106 million is absurd but NBA money is absurd.  

2.  The Nets do not have control of their pick next year so this is one of the only ways they can acquire young talent.  (this and trade i.e. Russell)

3.  The Knicks got rid of THJ only to throw 71 million at him to bring him back?

 

And when you consider the Knicks let's Holliday walk(who's basically a much cheaper version of TH JR) it really makes no sense. So perfect sense for the Knicks.

[SMC]

9 minutes ago, gqxluvx said:

Sure you can.  

1. Porter is a better player.  His metrics are off the chart. 106 million is absurd but NBA money is absurd.  

2.  The Nets do not have control of their pick next year so this is one of the only ways they can acquire young talent.  (this and trade i.e. Russell)

3.  The Knicks got rid of THJ only to throw 71 million at him to bring him back?

 

That is called excuses.  Nets threw a $106 million offer sheet at a player with a career 9 ppg average.

1.  But is Porter $35 million better than Hardaway?  That's the point.  If you think Porter is better, then Hardaway appropriately got less money.

2. The Knicks are also looking to acquire young talent.

3.  Phil got rid of Hardaway.  Obviously, people in the NYK front office didn't like that deal.  Plus, Phil didn't think much of the deal either because he soon after traded the guy who they traded Hardaway for.  Hardaway was a RFA regardless.  If he was on the NYK, they'd still have to match any offer sheet he got.  Hell, they may have had to match an offer sheet by the Nets if Hardaway had stayed.

[SMC]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

And when you consider the Knicks let's Holliday walk(who's basically a much cheaper version of TH JR) it really makes no sense. So perfect sense for the Knicks.

Holiday is 3 years older than Hardaway and is career 5.7 ppg scorer.  They're not remotely the same player.

[SMC]

Also, in order to sign Timmy, the Knicks have to renounce Rose AND Sasha.  How is that not a win?

[gqxluvx]

26 minutes ago, SMC said:

That is called excuses.  Nets threw a $106 million offer sheet at a player with a career 9 ppg average.

1.  But is Porter $35 million better than Hardaway?  That's the point.  If you think Porter is better, then Hardaway appropriately got less money.

2. The Knicks are also looking to acquire young talent.

3.  Phil got rid of Hardaway.  Obviously, people in the NYK front office didn't like that deal.  Plus, Phil didn't think much of the deal either because he soon after traded the guy who they traded Hardaway for.  Hardaway was a RFA regardless.  If he was on the NYK, they'd still have to match any offer sheet he got.  Hell, they may have had to match an offer sheet by the Nets if Hardaway had stayed.

Not its not anyone who has watched Porter and Hardaway play know that Porter is a much better two way player with an higher upside.  Hardaway is completely one dimensional and I like Hardaway.  Saying Porter has a career average of 9 ppg is a straw man argument.  I get that you defend everything the Knicks do but sheesh.  That Hawks werent even going as high as $50 million.

FWIW I dont mind the deal, but its typical Knicks to overpay for a guy that had in their building in the 1st place.  Nothing the Knicks do ever looks good.  That's the whole point.

[SMC]

7 minutes ago, gqxluvx said:

Not its not anyone who has watched Porter and Hardaway play know that Porter is a much better two way player with an higher upside.  Hardaway is completely one dimensional and I like Hardaway.  Saying Porter has a career average of 9 ppg is a straw man argument.  I get that you defend everything the Knicks do but sheesh.  That Hawks werent even going as high as $50 million.

Again, I'm asking you is Porter $35 million better than Hardaway?

That's the point.  I like Porter as well and he got a max contract.  The offer sheet for Porter is based on potential (that's why I pointed out the PPG).  He's the same draft class as Hardaway and produced less than Hardaway, but is higher regarded.

Hardaway DID NOT get a max contract.  I think Hardaway's RFA offer sheet is properly slotted between Waiters (headcase) and Porter.

[gqxluvx]

4 minutes ago, SMC said:

Again, I'm asking you is Porter $35 million better than Hardaway?

That's the point.  I like Porter as well and he got a max contract.  The offer sheet for Porter is based on potential (that's why I pointed out the PPG).  He's the same draft class as Hardaway and produced less than Hardaway, but is higher regarded.

Hardaway DID NOT get a max contract.  I think Hardaway's RFA offer sheet is properly slotted between Waiters (headcase) and Porter.

Yes Porter is $35 million better than Hardaway.  Their ceilings are not close.

[SMC]

11 minutes ago, gqxluvx said:

Yes Porter is $35 million better than Hardaway.  Their ceilings are not close.

How much better is Oladipo than Hardaway?  Oladipo, from same draft class, got 4/84. Or Allen Crabbe, who got 4/75?

[gqxluvx]

3 minutes ago, SMC said:

How much better is Oladipo than Hardaway?  Oladipo, from same draft class, got 4/84. Or Allen Crabbe, who got 4/75?

You must of glossed over the fact that I said I like THJ.  Oladipo > THJ > Crabbe

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, SMC said:

Also, in order to sign Timmy, the Knicks have to renounce Rose AND Sasha.  How is that not a win?

I dunno man. Hardaway doesn't suck, but players like him in the NBA are pretty common. These aren't the guys you pay. Knicks were already awash in albatross deals, they didn't have the luxury of handing this out, particularly with a trade kicker of all things. Please please please let the Hawks match.

[SMC]

24 minutes ago, gqxluvx said:

You must of glossed over the fact that I said I like THJ.  Oladipo > THJ > Crabbe

I didn't.  We're more in agreement than you think.  Again, my whole point is that THJ's deal is properly slotted.  If you think Porter is a good deal in this market, then THJ getting CONSIDERABLY less than Porter, and less than Oladipo is a good deal.  That's the market.

The media outrage over the THJ money was pure Knick bias.  If any other team signed that market offer sheet, no one would have criticized it.

[SMC]

13 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I dunno man. Hardaway doesn't suck, but players like him in the NBA are pretty common. These aren't the guys you pay. Knicks were already awash in albatross deals, they didn't have the luxury of handing this out, particularly with a trade kicker of all things. Please please please let the Hawks match.

Knicks got younger, man.  THJ is 7 years younger than Lee and they're looking to shed Lee's contract.  THJ got market deal.  There's no way Atlanta's matching.

TIMMY'S COMING HOME!!!

[RutgersJetFan]

Just now, SMC said:

Knicks got younger, man.  THJ is 7 years younger than Lee and they're looking to shed Lee's contract.  THJ got market deal.  There's no way Atlanta's matching.

TIMMY'S COMING HOME!!!

Getting a market deal on the RFA market means something bad happened. Porter's deal is bad. Hardaway's is really bad. They're both bad. The entire RFA market is bad. The very nature of it is a massive overpay and it's stupid to buy into the market.

[RutgersJetFan]

A player option too? Seriously?

So we massively overpaid AND between the kicker and the option, we can never trade him. Great. Everything is fine.

[SMC]

6 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Getting a market deal on the RFA market means something bad happened. Porter's deal is bad. Hardaway's is really bad. They're both bad. The entire RFA market is bad. The very nature of it is a massive overpay and it's stupid to buy into the market.

They let Lin walk by not matching a RFA offer sheet.  They didn't want that to happen this time.  The Knicks got younger.  All the RFA deals are bad.  Such is the NBA.

[Matt39]

The Knicks do so many stupid things it's hard to fathom that the goal is to actually win. A trade kicker for friggin Tim Hardaway just seems like an under the table favor for something else. There is literally no explanation for them to do that.  This smells like the Bargnani trade.

[SMC]

2 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

A player option too? Seriously?

So we massively overpaid AND between the kicker and the option, we can never trade him. Great. Everything is fine.

The option is after the 3 yr, so it's really a 3 year deal for $53.  If THJ improves like he thinks he will, he's really going to get paid.

Come on, how won't you get excited to see this next season:

 

[RutgersJetFan]

6 minutes ago, SMC said:

The option is after the 3 yr, so it's really a 3 year deal for $53.  If THJ improves like he thinks he will, he's really going to get paid.

Come on, how won't you get excited to see this next season:

 

Who cares. It's an unmovable deal.

Nobody is saying that Hardaway is not good. He's a decent player. The deal is horrible. God knows the Knicks have enough experience with handing albatross contracts to decent players, this is pretty par for the course.

[SMC]

Or how about Timmy putting the Hawks on his back to beat the Rockets in Houston!

 

[Matt39]

53 minutes ago, gqxluvx said:

You must of glossed over the fact that I said I like THJ.  Oladipo > THJ > Crabbe

He defended the Bargnani trade. SMC makes CrazyCarl look impartial.

[SMC]

Or Timmy beating the Spurs!

 

[SMC]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

He defended the Bargnani trade. SMC makes CrazyCarl look impartial.

No I didn't you lying liar, who lies.  I always hated the Bargnani trade because of the 1st round pick.

[RutgersJetFan]

1. Draft Tim Hardaway Jr

2. Trade THJ for rights to Jerian Grant

3. Trade Jerian Grant and Robin Lopez to Chicago for Derrick Rose's expiring deal

4. Sign Joakim Noah to massive deal with newly found cap space

5. Use rest of cap space to pay THJ $71 million

6. ????????

7. Profit.

[Integrity28]

Dwight Buycks - G - Mavericks

The Knicks have expressed interest in signing Dwight Buycks, according to Ian Begley of ESPN.com.

Buycks played very well for the Mavericks entry in the Orlando Summer League. He tallied 28 points, five rebounds, six assists, three steals and two 3-pointers in the Mavs championship-clinching win over the Pistons on Thursday. He averaged 17.8 points and 4.2 assists over the five games Dallas played. The Knicks desperately need to add depth at point guard and will likely only be able to offer a minimum-level contract, so Buycks may be a fit.

[Integrity28]

The Knicks are waiving Marshall Plumlee, according to Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN.

New York needed to clear some cap space to create the room necessary to sign Tim Hardaway Jr. to a mammoth four-year, $71 million offer sheet. The Knicks can re-sign Plumlee later in the summer if they chose to. Plumlee played sparingly as a rookie in New York and is irrelevant from a fantasy perspective.

[RutgersJetFan]

Meanwhile Detroit just renounced the rights to Caldwell-Pope. If he signs for anywhere near what we gave Hardaway I will not be happy about that.

[SMC]

58 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Meanwhile Detroit just renounced the rights to Caldwell-Pope. If he signs for anywhere near what we gave Hardaway I will not be happy about that.

Have the Knicks broken you?  On what planet is KCP better than THJ?  

THJ is better in the Per36 and advanced stats that KCP

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.fcgi?id=RlxL8#stats-per_minute::none

 

[Matt39]

Just now, SMC said:

Have the Knicks broken you?  On what planet is KCP better than THJ?  

THJ is better in the Per36 and advanced stats that KCP

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.fcgi?id=RlxL8#stats-per_minute::none

<PRE>                                                                                                                                              
Rk                     Player  Season Age  G GS   MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P 3PA  3P%  2P 2PA  2P%  FT FTA  FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
1    Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 2016-17  23 76 75 2529 5.3 13.2 .399 2.2 6.2 .350 3.1 7.0 .442 2.2 2.6 .832 0.8 2.7 3.5 2.7 1.3 0.2 1.2 1.7 14.9
2                Tim Hardaway 2016-17  24 79 30 2154 6.9 15.2 .455 2.5 7.0 .357 4.4 8.3 .537 2.7 3.6 .766 0.6 3.2 3.7 3.0 0.9 0.3 1.8 1.7 19.1
</PRE>

Provided by <a href="http://www.sports-reference.com/sharing.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool">Basketball-Reference.com</a>: <a href="http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.fcgi?id=RlxL8&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#stats-per_minute">View Original Table</a><br>Generated 7/7/2017.

I think they both stink.

[SMC]

3 hours ago, Matt39 said:

The Knicks do so many stupid things it's hard to fathom that the goal is to actually win. A trade kicker for friggin Tim Hardaway just seems like an under the table favor for something else. There is literally no explanation for them to do that.  This smells like the Bargnani trade.

This is paying THJ back for Fisher trying to steal his girl.

[SMC]

Just now, Matt39 said:

I think they both stink.

That's fine.  I think its nuts to lament losing out on KCP who is not as good at THJ.

Knicks got younger and more athletic.  THJ is now also the team's best 3 point shooter.

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, SMC said:

That's fine.  I think its nuts to lament losing out on KCP who is not as good at THJ.

Knicks got younger and more athletic.  THJ is now also the team's best 3 point shooter.

You now have 3 guys in the starting lineup (Melo, KP and THJR) who do nothing else but shoot. Non of them rebound or pass. Tying in big money to a two guard, with tunnel vision and no playmaking skills, with the current state of the roster, is why you're looking at 30 wins every year. I would have rather given f'ing Swaggy P the 5 mill to come chuck than watch Hardaway do it for another 4.

[SMC]

7 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

You now have 3 guys in the starting lineup (Melo, KP and THJR) who do nothing else but shoot. Non of them rebound or pass. Tying in big money to a two guard, with tunnel vision and no playmaking skills, with the current state of the roster, is why you're looking at 30 wins every year. I would have rather given f'ing Swaggy P the 5 mill to come chuck than watch Hardaway do it for another 4.

Melo's gone, though.  THJR now spaces the floor better and gives KP space to operate.  Plus, while I agree on the passing issue, KP rebounds.

And 30 wins isn't bad since the NYK have all their 1st rounders.

[SMC]