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No room for any more BS...


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I don't recall Todd Bowles making any sole person or unit a scapegoat. In fact, when asked about the blown coverages he didn't sugar coat it. He even dismissed the "miscommunication" label. He said different players on different plays blew it. They were trying to do more than their job or just having a mental breakdown. 

He went on to take responsibility on himself to correct it. Just because Bowles said that Fitz has to stop throwing INTS doesn't mean he's making him the scapegoat. Coach has blamed everyone and none more than himself. 

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3 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Look I know you are like Fitz's apologist if I said Fitz was significantly below average the first 6 games of the season I would be generous

He's not a good player.  The good defenses chewed him up.  The bengals don't even have a good defense and he still played badly against them

Trevor Siemian doesn't have a strong arm.  He may have a weaker arm than Fitz.  But he goes through progressions.

The sky is blue, you forgot that one.

Journeyman quarterbacks are journeymen because they aren't good.  So tell me again why Ryan Fitzpatrick isn't good.  Because the sky is blue and I didn't know that.

SAR I

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3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

And that's it right there, really. 

I didn't expect the team to do any better than 2-4, I felt if we didn't win our first game we'd be 1-5 and in a media-induced panic and here we are.  But that said, I thought we'd lose these games competitively, I never expected this level of fail on the defense.  We're in the soft part of the schedule now, we have some wins lined up if we take care of business.  I expect Fitzpatrick to play well enough to win these games, no clue what the lousy secondary is going to do.

SAR I

there is a distinction between fitz playing poorly and the defense sucking.  the difference is the expectation and the relative investment.  now if hackenberg winds up sucking...

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2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

The sky is blue, you forgot that one.

Journeyman quarterbacks are journeymen because they aren't good.  So tell me again why Ryan Fitzpatrick isn't good.  Because the sky is blue and I didn't know that.

SAR I

Hey your the one who wants to blame everyone but Fitz for the season being lost

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3 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Look if you want to see how much Fitz SUCKS watch Siemian in Denver.  Guy has no arm whatsoever but is 10x better because he goes through prigressions instead of locking onto the first read 

Yes, let's look at the quarterback supported with a Super Bowl coaching staff and a Super Bowl defense and compare him to Ryan Fitzpatrick getting support from the Jets coaching staff and the Jets defense.

Are you posting from the dentists office by any chance?  A little happy gas before your root canal?

SAR I

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1 minute ago, drdetroit said:

Hey your the one who wants to blame everyone but Fitz for the season being lost

No, I don't.  I just want to see a couple dozen anti-Revis anti-Harris anti-Wilkerson anti-Rodgers threads so there is more of a balanced attack on JN.

SAR I

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1 minute ago, SAR I said:

Yes, let's look at the quarterback supported with a Super Bowl coaching staff and a Super Bowl defense and compare him to Ryan Fitzpatrick getting support from the Jets coaching staff and the Jets defense.

Are you posting from the dentists office by any chance?  A little happy gas before your root canal?

SAR I

On offense Denver's personnel is only slightly better than ours -- outside of qb

 

 

Way better defense and coaching  but OL and skill positions are comparable

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1 hour ago, Charlie Brown said:

Listen the worst QB play in the NFL will have a negative impact on the entire team. The NFL is a QB driven league.  

Even a defensive stalwart team in Seattle has stellar QB play. The idea that the QB can play awful and the rest of the team cover for him is fantasy island talk.  

Totally agree.  We all know it too.  A red zone turnover is the most demoralizing thing you can have.  Sucks the air right out of the stadium...

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3 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

On offense Denver's personnel is only slightly better than ours -- outside of qb

Way better defense and coaching  but OL and skill positions are comparable

Give us some stats on turnovers, field position, sacks, interceptions, let's see how comparable the World Champion Denver Broncos defense and the 2-5 Jets defense are when it comes to assisting their mediocre quarterbacks.

SAR I

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SARs point is pretty simple -- while Ryan Fitzpatrick's regression is hurting the team, it's not a shock that he's regressed. He's a veteran journeyman and our drafts and FA spending over the last several years haven't been designed to build around him.

The reason the team is so much worse than expected is the regression of the defense.

2015: 4th in Total YPG, 13th in Passing YPG, 2nd in Rushing YPG, 9th in PPG

2016: 16th in Total YPG, 27th in Passing YPG, 2nd in Rushing YPG, 23rd in PPG

Obviously Fitz regressed but anyone who didn't think that was a strong possibility was naive. What I didn't expect was that all of our moves to get younger and faster on defense would lead to such a dramatic falloff. I mean, it's unbelievable how bad this defense has been against deep passes. I've never seen anything like it.

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53 minutes ago, SAR I said:

The parallels to the Mark Sanchez situation are uncanny.

Don't have a franchise quarterback, check. Invest ridiculous draft picks and cap dollars on the defense, check.  Ask a guy with limited skills to be a game manager, check.  Bring in a rookie head coach with a defensive pedigree, check.  Commit your identity to the defense, check.  Have a strategy to win games like the '85 Bears, check.  And then when your defense is a pile of crap and you fall behind in games early and often and ground and pound is stuck in the mud and your game manager is asked to chuck the ball around like '85 Marino and turnovers ensue, BLAME THE QUARTERBACK!

It's hysterical.  Terrible head coach, terrible defensive coordinator, worst secondary in the league, Revis mailing it in, Mo and Sheldon playing out of position, Lee incapable of stopping TE's, Harris making terrible judgement calls, more bombs over 30 yards than any team in the league, BLAME THE QUARTERBACK!

Same. Old. Jets. Fans.  Always looking for the easy answer, always looking for the easy soundbyte, always a scapegoat on the wrong side of the ball.

SAR I

Wait, which QB is a game manager in this story, Mark Sanchez or Ryan Fitzpatrick? 

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7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Wait, which QB is a game manager in this story, Mark Sanchez or Ryan Fitzpatrick? 

Both. 

At the time each joined the Jets there was no expert consensus or data to support that either would be more than a game manager in their first few seasons here.  No one said Mark Sanchez was the second-coming of Peyton Manning and no one said Ryan Fitzpatrick was the second-coming of Brad Johnson.  So it's rather queer that people hold them to these standards whist letting the defense off the hook.

When we are 5-5 and have a bye week to prepare for the Patriots on Sunday Night Football we will all look back on this week's rhetoric and say it was the spark.  And if we beat the Patriots somehow, watch out.  We end the season with 5 of 7 games at home and nary an elite team in our way.

SAR I

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2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Both. 

At the time each joined the Jets there was no expert consensus or data to support that either would be more than a game manager in their first few seasons here.  No one said Mark Sanchez was the second-coming of Peyton Manning and no one said Ryan Fitzpatrick was the second-coming of Brad Johnson.  So it's rather queer that people hold them to these standards whist letting the defense off the hook.

When we are 5-5 and have a bye week to prepare for the Patriots on Sunday Night Football we will all look back on this week's rhetoric and say it was the spark.  And if we beat the Patriots somehow, watch out.  We end the season with 5 of 7 games at home and nary an elite team in our way.

SAR I

Ryan Fitzpatrick held himself to this standard when he held out of training camp whilst demanding $18 million/year. Brian Hoyer doesn't get any sh*t because he's in Chicago making $2 million this year while performing 6x better than Fitzy.

 

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5 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Both. 

At the time each joined the Jets there was no expert consensus or data to support that either would be more than a game manager in their first few seasons here.  No one said Mark Sanchez was the second-coming of Peyton Manning and no one said Ryan Fitzpatrick was the second-coming of Brad Johnson.  So it's rather queer that people hold them to these standards whist letting the defense off the hook.

When we are 5-5 and have a bye week to prepare for the Patriots on Sunday Night Football we will all look back on this week's rhetoric and say it was the spark.  And if we beat the Patriots somehow, watch out.  We end the season with 5 of 7 games at home and nary an elite team in our way.

SAR I

Mark Sanchez and Ryan Fitzpatrick are both game managers?

Hee-hee-hee. You're cute.

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17 minutes ago, Jack Straw said:

Ryan Fitzpatrick held himself to this standard when he held out of training camp whilst demanding $18 million/year. Brian Hoyer doesn't get any sh*t because he's in Chicago making $2 million this year while performing 6x better than Fitzy.

Ah, back to the money argument.  Hey, Fitzpatrick already has made more money than Joe Montana has in his entire career, so the Texans and Bills are disappointed that he's not headed to the Hall Of Fame then?

SAR I

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18 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Mark Sanchez and Ryan Fitzpatrick are both game managers?

Hee-hee-hee. You're cute.

Both were being asked to do just enough to allow the Jets to win games on defense, so yes.  Are you telling me a 22 year old college senior and a 33 year old journeyman were supposed to be running an Air Coryell style offense that I missed?

SAR I

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I want the Jets not to win.  But I want to make a distinction. I am not "rooting" for them to lose.  I want to see improvement from Robby, Jalin, Charone, Darron, etc.  I want to see Petty play and hopefully show that he is worthy of competing for the job next year. 

"Not to win."

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36 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

I want the Jets not to win.  But I want to make a distinction. I am not "rooting" for them to lose.  I want to see improvement from Robby, Jalin, Charone, Darron, etc.  I want to see Petty play and hopefully show that he is worthy of competing for the job next year. 

"Not to win."

Before you throw a rookie to the fire, you had better have some of your s*it together as a team, or you are treading on dangerous ground.

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3 hours ago, flgreen said:

I'm not generally a basher of Woody, but the way this QB disaster has gone down, Bowles saying Sunday night that Fitz would definitely start against the Ravens, then the next day, with out looking at film, or talking to his coaches, while bashing smith with the "He's a back up for a reason" quote, suddenly making smith the starter, seems to have Woody's finger prints all over it.

IF this is true, Woody needs to let his professionals make football decisions. 

One more time, Bowles didn't say he would definitely start.  He said he wouldn't make any knee jerk, snap decisions and would wait until he saw the tape and talked to the rest of the coaches before making that decision.  

When he made the move it wasn't out of nowhere 

 

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Aye, Agreed. Jets playing up to their potential and winning as much as possible is more important than anything in order to establish winning ways and winning cultures with the team and especially to rub off on the young WRs, LBs, etc. It's more important than top 5 and 10 draft picks that the Browns, Jags, etc. get every year and never improve since they are never establishing winning programs and tendencies. Heck Green Bay, NE, Pitt, etc. every year get the worst draft picks at the end of each round and I always see them draft the proper players they need to keep winning at the level they do. High draft picks guarentee nothing. I know we really need to see Petty play, and probably will since Fitz will eventually falter again, but I personally never root for a loss because I always want to win.


The Jets are playing up to their potential. Their potential is Ryan Fitzpatrick. A 12 year vet QB who has never even been to a playoff game. GB, PIT, NE all have one thing in common that makes all their drafts look great. A QB.


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2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Do you understand that Ryan Fitzpatrick was signed as a backup quarterback and has backup quarterback limitations?  Let's start there. 

Tell me what journeyman quarterback on his 6th team in 11 years is "good".  Show me the laundry list of NFL backup quarterbacks who morphed into Joe Montana in their 12th season.  Show me where the Jets said they were going to make it to the playoffs this year on the strength of their offense, their passing game in particular, because we have such talent at the quarterback position.

There is no reason to expect Ryan Fitzpatrick to put up numbers better than 20 for 30 1 TD 1 INT 200 YDS on average 

SAR I

Rich Gannon

image.png

 

:-) 

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2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Sometimes I wonder if people even watch the games.  You read this on Twitter, yes?

SAR I

 

You mean like saying the defense was at fault, that Fitz gave them the lead against Cincy when in that game, in the 2nd half he passed for 70 yards and 0 points? 

How many points did the defense give up to KC?  Jets we're losing 17-3 in the 4th?  Points came off a half field drive after a Fitz TO and another 7 off of JMarshalls return fumble?  And again no 2nd half points but 3, THREE, red zone INTs.  A game where Fitz was 100% to blame. 

And you wonder if people watch games?  

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5 hours ago, SAR I said:

The parallels to the Mark Sanchez situation are uncanny.

Don't have a franchise quarterback, check. Invest ridiculous draft picks and cap dollars on the defense, check.  Ask a guy with limited skills to be a game manager, check.  Bring in a rookie head coach with a defensive pedigree, check.  Commit your identity to the defense, check.  Have a strategy to win games like the '85 Bears, check.  And then when your defense is a pile of crap and you fall behind in games early and often and ground and pound is stuck in the mud and your game manager is asked to chuck the ball around like '85 Marino and turnovers ensue, BLAME THE QUARTERBACK!

It's hysterical.  Terrible head coach, terrible defensive coordinator, worst secondary in the league, Revis mailing it in, Mo and Sheldon playing out of position, Lee incapable of stopping TE's, Harris making terrible judgement calls, more bombs over 30 yards than any team in the league, BLAME THE QUARTERBACK!

Same. Old. Jets. Fans.  Always looking for the easy answer, always looking for the easy soundbyte, always a scapegoat on the wrong side of the ball.

SAR I

If nothing else, this is hysterically true. There is nothing written here that is incorrect, except the SOJF thing. Let's face it we are all sick of losing and watching the NY $hit show every week. Unfortunately when you lose on National TV 28-3, and to a mediocre Kansas City seam 23-3, at home to a QB with 0 legs basically, at Pit by 21 or however much it was, and only having won 1 out of 6 games, I guess you look for every reason to blame every rich fat cat involved, players, coaches, GM, and owner. Can't say I disagree with wanting heads to roll just like everyone else, especially considering the unprepared look this team shows on a weekly basis, the second half last week and Buffalo notwithstanding.

 

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4 hours ago, SAR I said:

Both were being asked to do just enough to allow the Jets to win games on defense, so yes.  Are you telling me a 22 year old college senior and a 33 year old journeyman were supposed to be running an Air Coryell style offense that I missed?

SAR I

Neither of them are fit to be game managers. Not then, not now.

Your fayvie, Sanchez: his best quality is that he's really athletic and has good raw skills. So he'll make a bunch of mistakes (some that we'd never seen before) and miss receivers all over the place, but if he gets into a rhythm, for a short while in a game he can look like a QB far better than he is. The last thing he is, though, is a game manager. Even as a rookie. 

Game managers are guys like Alex Smith. They won't beat the other team and take over a game by throwing on-target missiles way downfield, but they generally won't lose it for their own team, either. Neither Sanchez nor Fitzpatrick are game managers. Both are far too careless with the ball to qualify. Just because they aren't elite (or even good) QBs doesn't therefore mean they're game managers.

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11 minutes ago, BRONX DUDE said:

NO - Woody has billions  without working a day in his life.

Long live Woody

He was the leader among billions...of sperm.

If you're going to log on here just to bash Sperm you can just take your act elsewhere, mister. Either that or take a number and patiently wait in line. But not a peep out of you.

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I haven't read all three pages but it seems the general consensus is that Fitz is not the guy but we don't have much better. Here is my take. 

As of today Fitz is the best on the roster. However he won't be back next year nor will Geno IMO. I would say once we reach 7 losses we need to see what else we have. Rumor has it after the bye Petty will be 100 percent healthy. I'm going to say that's when we see Petty. I really don't see Hackenberg getting a shot this year. From what all the reports were saying he is a project. Hopefully the FO keeping 4 QBs pays off in the long run. Our focus now to be on the QB. The way the rules are now in the NFL a QB is a nessesity to be competitive year after year. 

 

I also read read a couple threads where other issues were brought up. I also agree. This team as a whole has under performed. The QB position gets the majority of the blame but the reality is that is only one issue in a long list. The right side of the Oline has been a train wreck, the revamped LB core has under achieved but shown flashes and the secondary has been poor. The a absense of an ivory type back has also been missed in the red zone. 

 

Long story short horn we are missing pieces. This is what is expected when you try and build through the draft after the previous regimes drafted players are mostly out of the NFL. 

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On 10/25/2016 at 9:25 PM, Sperm Edwards said:

Neither of them are fit to be game managers. Not then, not now.

Your fayvie, Sanchez: his best quality is that he's really athletic and has good raw skills. So he'll make a bunch of mistakes (some that we'd never seen before) and miss receivers all over the place, but if he gets into a rhythm, for a short while in a game he can look like a QB far better than he is. The last thing he is, though, is a game manager. Even as a rookie. 

Game managers are guys like Alex Smith. They won't beat the other team and take over a game by throwing on-target missiles way downfield, but they generally won't lose it for their own team, either. Neither Sanchez nor Fitzpatrick are game managers. Both are far too careless with the ball to qualify. Just because they aren't elite (or even good) QBs doesn't therefore mean they're game managers.

I never said either Sanchez or Fitzpatrick were good game managers.  I merely said the team strategy for both quarterbacks was to 1) have an elite Top 3 defense, 2) have a Top 3 running game, and 3) have a quarterback who could manage a game and not screw up the dominance of #1 and #2.

So when #1 and #2 don't happen, and when we have to play catch up because we can't run and our D can't stop the pass, our knowingly limited quarterbacks are forced to play way outside their comfort zone and chuck the pumpkin all over the field and disaster strikes.  What would be refreshing would be if Jets fans recognized all of this and pointed the finger of blame at #1 and #2 and not at #3.

SAR I

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