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Lupz27

Pat Mahomes II

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On 1/6/2017 at 2:58 AM, sourceworx said:

I know. I understand that. But if you actually watch this kid play (not his highlights, his game tape), there's something different about him. He isn't just taking the snap, staring down his first read, and throwing it to him. 

I totally disagree. He's awful when the read isn't there. No Anticipation, terrible pocket presence. After watching some games, I walked away seeing another Bryce Petty. Wouldn't touch him even in the 7th round personally.

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1 minute ago, Lupz27 said:

Must have watched that tape with the same glasses you watched Paxton Lynch's with, were in complete disagreement here, he will be the most successful QB to come out of this draft IMO he has everything you need to succeed at the next level, I saw the same think in Dak Prescott last year that I see in Mahomes except Mahomes is a better physical talent.

I mean to say you won't touch a guy in the 7th round, and this guy will 100% get drafted 3rd round the latest, and has a very good chance to get drafted in the 1st round because teams over draft QB's makes you sound very silly, and I will definitely take your opinions on other players much less seriously then I used to.

You're starting to get hostile, so I'll leave my tip with the bartender. 

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1 hour ago, Lupz27 said:

I'm not getting hostile, I just think it's so way over the top to say you wouldn't take him with a 7th round pick, it is so over the top overreacting to not liking a prospect.

no, you're getting bitchy. We both know it. 

It's not an overstatement at all. If i don't believe he's going to make i, why would i spend a 7th pick on him? Do you buy shoes in the bargain bin you'll never wear? 

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On 1/8/2017 at 5:32 PM, sourceworx said:

No offense, but you love Paxton Lynch, who is dogsh!t.

Right. 

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4 hours ago, sourceworx said:

While I understand the point you're trying to make, none of those guys have the athleticism and arm talent of Mahomes.

athletic QBs with an arm are a dime a dozen in college. What makes you think Mahomes is any different? That he doesn't in fact, belong on that list? For all this fawning over his big play ability, none of you have addressed his inability to operate in a pocket, to read defenses, to "feel" pressure. He's made his living in college on throwing to busted coverages and slow dbs. 

He's a project at best. No better than Petty. 

 

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6 hours ago, legler82 said:

Mahomes has Cutler, Stafford, Favre, Jeff George type of arm talent.   everything else you wrote about Mahomes is wrong and the complete opposite of what he's shown on tape.  He has shown the ability to operate in the pocket, read defenses, feel pressure. 

No...

No. No, and no. 

If you what you're saying was so (pompously) clear, he would easily - EE-SAH-LEE - be the best QB in the draft class. Undisputed, and presently being drafted by CLE in every mock draft from here to russia.

But he's not is he?

So there's two possibilities why this is not happening.

1) the entire football community is light years behind you, and the Mahomes Tiger beat fan club.

2) He's not that good, and you're drunk on Mahomes love.

 

I don't know... tough call. 

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18 hours ago, sourceworx said:

Agreed. See Lynch, Paxton. ;)

LOL Sorry man. I had to. 

I don't what the slam is here? I take my lumps when i gots to. Still hear about Taylor Mays all the time (never used right i tell ya!).. but I fail to understand how Lynch is the personification of a failure... especially when he's won more games than Jared Goff. What's the measuring stick? The first 4 games of Wentz? or the other 8 meddling performances?

"Needs time to develop"

5 mins later

"he sucks"

D'ALRIGHTY THEN!

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1 minute ago, legler82 said:

Draft season is still at its infancy.  Around this time last year and as early as 3 months prior to this time last year, the entire football community was last year behind me with regards to Wentz.  We shall see if history repeats itself.  Like Wentz he may not end up being the first QB taken but I can EE-SAH-LEE see a scenario where he climbs to the top 10.  Aaron Rodgers was drafted 25th overall and Derek Carr went in the 2nd round; let's not pretend the football community is light years ahead of knowledgable fans.

You're reaching bud. Like a lot. 

Wentz was already in discussion as a franchise QB going into 2015. Competition was the only thing keeping him out of 1st round mocks during the season. He was already floating around the first round by this time. All the things that made Wentz the stuff of kings -- Mahomes has none of them. I get the love from a "potential" and big play exciting stand point, but there's a grocery list of issues and concerns about him. He's not broken, like Hack, so there's always the off chance you can develop Mahomes, and teach him -- but that's a fcking long road. and not one you should compare that was traveled by Rodgers, or Carr. 

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Almost slipped on the jizz on the way in here....

Important reading material here from the guy who's probably more respected than anyone in draft-media when it comes to QBs especially. Need to respect the "Can't project a QB based on ability to make plays outside of structure"... comment.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Stark said:

I am not trying to start anything, but this is the same Greg Cosell who said he would take RG3 over Luck.

We all know QB evaluators are all over the map, and usually all say the same thing to cover their @$$, " player X, needs time to learn and develop... has a lot of upside if he can sit and learn for a year". 

I do not think the JETS should take Mahomes at 6... but if they were to trade into the back of the first or trade back into the end of the 1st I wouldn't loose my mind. 

Not sure what you're point is - that no one is 100%? Coswell has a voice that people respect - cherry picking is for the birds. Beyond that - the point of that article is to shed some light on the reasons why there's lots of risk with Mahomes. The tiger-beat club here has been down right ridiculous in minimizing the concerns in his game.

Will he end up as an instant bust? I dunno. Hopefully not. He certainly sounds like a good kid who wants to do it right.

But so what? 

He has as horrible habits as there is possible, and almost none of the "highlights" translate to the NFL. I wouldn't touch him before round 3. 

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13 minutes ago, JiF said:

Legit question and not trying to be snarky or take a jab but what's the difference between Pat Mahomes and someone you were head over heels in love with last year, Paxton Lynch? 

 

We dug into this question once in one of the many "I love Pat" threads over the past couple months. The short version? NFL throws into NFL windows. While both came from completely unrelateable NFL-offenses -- and consequently both need a lot work developing their game against NFL defenses, the big difference is Paxton made big time throws against NFL-calibre coverage and made quick reads when the primary wasn't there and did so with good ball placement. You see very little of that with Mahomes. 

People can argue all they want, but that's the primary reason Paxton was always mocked in in the 1st round, and why Mahomes needs essays written online to convince people why he should go in the 1st.

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56 minutes ago, JiF said:

Meh, I'm sure I could cherry pick "Big time NFL throws into NFL windows, vs. NFL caliber coverage" if we really wanted to with Mahomes.  The kid has a cannon.  He can do it.  Mahomes made a ton of quick reads too. Sure, he's got highlight reel of broken down plays where he creates but the offense is more about quick reads than most. I think Mahomes game is just harder to critique because so much of what he did was improvising and he doesnt have the NFL optics with funky deliveries and footwork.  

The conference matters too.  They literally dont know you're allowed to stop the other team in that conference.  The only starter it's ever produced is Sam Bradford.  So it's a hard conference to judge QB's out of.  Meanwhile, you got Villain drooling over Baker Mayfield throwing to wide open receivers after turning his back to the LOS and running around like a chicken with his head cut off.  At least with Lupz love for Mahomes, it's justified because Mahomes has some freakish talent you cant teach that is going to make some coaches fall in love.  Mayfield literally has really nothing to offer the NFL but will probably put up a Heisman campaign next year because his numbers will be absurd. 

It's not a "meh, i could cherry pick too" scenario JiF... it is what it is. Paxton was always graded as a round 1 QB. he was mocked anywhere from 1st overall, through till 28th throughout the 2015 season. I'm not making this sh*t up.... i hear what you're saying, but don't act like i'm pulling this out of my ass. Lynch made NFL throws. Jury's out on Mahomes, hence why replies like yours feel the need to qualify why his tape needs to be looked at like this or that. 

Their upsides are very similar, i'll give him that -- there's just more evidence with Lynch

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

I'm not acting like you're pulling sh*t out of your ass.  I'm asking with sincerity because Mahomes is a bit of a polarizing figure.  And when I look at the 2 side by side, they seem very similar.  So I was trying to get your take since you were very passionate about Paxton Lynch.

That said, I think this take is just a little misguided.  I have a hard believing that a player with Mahomes arm talent who attempted over 11k passes in college, didnt make any NFL throws into NFL windows vs. NFL caliber coverage.  Now, if you're telling me Lynch had to more often than Mahomes which made him easier to evaluate when you watch the tape, then I get it.  That make sense.  

I honestly dont recall Lynch as a sure fire 1st round.  I remember him as a climber during the process.  I recall him being called "raw" but was popping up after a good season and the obvious tools he possess. 

He was a sure fire round 1 guy pretty much from october and beyond. One of the unsung accolades of Lynch's resume was his year to year to progression from freshman to junior. Continuous improvement. 

The Mahomes song starts and ends with arm talent. That's all I hear about. Arm talent this and arm talent that. Look, I'm not trying to say he's a bust or dog sh*t. I hope he becomes a full time gangster in the NFL cause he's 8000x more exciting to watch than another Kirk Cousins. That said, I'm not convinced chances are better than 50/50. He didn't make a lot great throws on time to WRs in coverage. He makes some nice touch bases downfield that make for great highlights, but the important stuff that has to happen on time and with accurate ball placement.... really touch and go. Relied alot on their system. 

Should be a fun journey to follow. Just not one i'd spend a top 60 pick on. 

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There is plenty of evidence of Mahomes making NFL throws into NFL windows, (you choose to only look at the other stuff with Mahomes which leads to your position he is a mid round prospect at best developmental QB) there is also a ton of evidence of Mahomes making throws to wide open WR's in a gimmick offense, bad decision throws, and gun slinger mentality sand lot football throws, that is one difference between Mahomes, and Lynch, Lynch doesn't have the improvise skills Mahomes has, and played it much safer in college, I'd take Mahomes over Lynch for the main reason that when both are developed Mahomes will grade out at a much higher ceiling then Lynch, and has IMO an equal to slightly better chance to develop into a Franchise QB, and do it much quicker then most think (I don't see why Mahomes can't start week 1 this year if he develops, and works as hard at being a NFL starting QB as he says he will, and all evidence points to him not being just talk).

Also you might have missed it, but Lynch has a Jury still in session about him, and it's not looking very good, and has continued to get worse the longer they investigate, like you said he went from possibly the #1 overall pick to I'm desperate for a QB now let me reach for Lynch, to I can't beat out a 2nd year 7th round draft pick for the starting job, to oh man we gotta make a run at Tony Romo, and by the time he retires Lynch will be in year 4 the earliest, and basically be in the same situation Geno Smith was with the Jets last year, but worse because he won't have 20+ games of starting experience to draw from.

Mahomes on the other hand has went from a mid round prospect because nobody was actually looking, and then the Jury started their investigation, and he improved to being argued as the best QB in this class by some, and will probably get picked in a similar place as Lynch did possibly higher, the cases for both are going in different directions, Mahomes for the better, Lynch for the worse.

 

Im tired of listening to your bullsh*t narratives. Clearly you don't need to convince me, you're way ahead of paid scouts in the NFL who were grossly mistaken about both Lynch and Mahomes. 

 

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You know, you get more flies with honey, etc. etc.....

Thanks for picking that post to quote me on for the first time in 4 months.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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13 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Is Pat Mahomes being the NFL MVP, and the Super Bowl MVP by year 3 also fake?  Lol haters gonna hate.

What? The story was debunked.  

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