Derek Carr and Raiders on MNF

[NoBowles]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And your point is?  That The statements wrong, he became the best player on some other field later?  I was answer the statement that he was the best player on the field, which was total nonsense.  

He came out of college when he did.  Didn't listen to those, including his HC who said he should wait, not anyone's fault but his.  

No, I am in complete agreement with you. If someone is not the man and winning games from day one, they will suck forever. Unless it is Geno, than we just don't know, because you have decided that. So when Jet Nut decides someone sucks, they suck, when Jet Nut decides we have not seen enough, they still may great. From now on I will just wait for you to give me the answers, and not try to figure any of this out on my own.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, phill1c said:

"And other than a game or two out of 6 playoff games..."

When he outplayed Brady and Brees and Rothlesberger...

Say what you want, the Jets ruined him by not surrounding him with talent. I'm not saying he was elite, but the Jets were so far from elite around him for his non-playoff seasons, we're STILL looking for OL, RB, TE talent 3 years later.

I know, the leagues best OL, defense, running game, went out and got Bray Edwards, Holmes, not good enough for him.  TE?  Forgot how good Keller was receiving?  Thomas? LT?  Did you watch those teams?  There was plenty of talent there.

When did he outplay Brees in the playoffs?  When did he face Brees in the playoffs?  Ever?  Brady?  Brady played great in that playoff game, the Jets outplayed the Pats.  Sanchez didn't outplay him.  Big Ben?  Ok.  

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

No, I am in complete agreement with you. If someone is not the man and winning games from day one, they will suck forever. Unless it is Geno, than we just don't know, because you have decided that. So when Jet Nut decides someone sucks, they suck, when Jet Nut decides we have not seen enough, they still may great. From now on I will just wait for you to give me the answers, and not try to figure any of this out on my own.

Other than a sarcastic stupid post your point is?  That he was good?  Hat anyone who says Sanchez never developed is wrong?  Your proof is?  

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Sanchez is, was and always will be a terrible nfl qb.  Are you guys seriously wasting time debating this?

Don't piss of NoBowles with this crazy talk.  Sanchez still could develop you know. Lol

[NoBowles]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Other than a sarcastic stupid post your point is?  That he was good?  Hat anyone who says Sanchez never developed is wrong?  Your proof is?  

I have no point, I am waiting for you to give me one.

[NoBowles]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Don't piss of NoBowles with this crazy talk.  Sanchez still could develop you know. Lol

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.... As long as YOU agree with it.

[phill1c]

2 hours ago, NoBowles said:

35 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I know, the leagues best OL, defense, running game, went out and got Bray Edwards, Holmes, not good enough for him.  TE?  Forgot how good Keller was receiving?  Thomas? LT?  Did you watch those teams?  There was plenty of talent there.

When did he outplay Brees in the playoffs?  When did he face Brees in the playoffs?  Ever?  Brady?  Brady played great in that playoff game, the Jets outplayed the Pats.  Sanchez didn't outplay him.  Big Ben?  Ok.  

Rex absolutely destroyed him. He put SB or bust on Sanchez, took away his favorite 2 targets, and replaced them with awful players who were out of football the next year, let his Oline go to crap and then put a defense out that was not even that great.

Then, he brought in Soprano as his OC! 

But hey, Rex would have been cool to tailgate with so lets put 100% of the blame on the young QB who was drafted too high and give the fat loudmouth man baby a full pass.

My bad, I was remembering Chad Pennington (as regards Brees).

But, wow, when the guy wins it's all the other people around him and when he loses, it's all him. Check the QB ratings and get back to me. You're typical of the shortsighted, superficial arguments that permeate the long-standing forum poster: you don't AT ALL look for root causes. Mark Sanchez was one of the best playoff QBs in Jets history. and he was not the reason the Jets lost TWO championship games (that LAST TWO championship games the Jets have been to). He was a big reason they got to the those games.

He sucked after that because of a lack of talent, on both the OL AND the WR position (they decided they didnt' need Braylon Edwards and relied solely on Santonio Holmes and lost Damien Woody and used up Thomas Jones the two years before).

[Jet Nut]

7 hours ago, NoBowles said:

I have no point, I am waiting for you to give me one.

That you're being a dick? 

That one is obvious. 

[Jet Nut]

7 hours ago, phill1c said:

My bad, I was remembering Chad Pennington (as regards Brees).

But, wow, when the guy wins it's all the other people around him and when he loses, it's all him. Check the QB ratings and get back to me. You're typical of the shortsighted, superficial arguments that permeate the long-standing forum poster: you don't AT ALL look for root causes. Mark Sanchez was one of the best playoff QBs in Jets history. and he was not the reason the Jets lost TWO championship games (that LAST TWO championship games the Jets have been to). He was a big reason they got to the those games.

He sucked after that because of a lack of talent, on both the OL AND the WR position (they decided they didnt' need Braylon Edwards and relied solely on Santonio Holmes and lost Damien Woody and used up Thomas Jones the two years before).

You need to learn how to read. I listed who was around him because you said there was no one around him.  When I list who was around him you make it into something else. 

he had talent around him and didn't develop.  It happens. That's it.  

He didn't suck after anything.  He sucked. Always. From day one he was never, ever a good QB.  His numbers sucked through this career. I'm shortsighted?  Your talking hypothetical what if scenarios. I'm talking about what he was.  A mediocre, at best, QB who was on teams that succeeded. You can stroke yourself into believing it was better than that.  You're wrong

[SAR I]

21 hours ago, NoBowles said:

Rex absolutely destroyed him. He put SB or bust on Sanchez, took away his favorite 2 targets, and replaced them with awful players who were out of football the next year, let his Oline go to crap and then put a defense out that was not even that great.

Then, he brought in Soprano as his OC! 

But hey, Rex would have been cool to tailgate with so lets put 100% of the blame on the young QB who was drafted too high and give the fat loudmouth man baby a full pass.

You rule. Outstanding. 

SAR I

[SAR I]

18 hours ago, phill1c said:

But, wow, when the guy wins it's all the other people around him and when he loses, it's all him. Check the QB ratings and get back to me. You're typical of the shortsighted, superficial arguments that permeate the long-standing forum poster: you don't AT ALL look for root causes. Mark Sanchez was one of the best playoff QBs in Jets history. and he was not the reason the Jets lost TWO championship games (that LAST TWO championship games the Jets have been to). He was a big reason they got to the those games.

He sucked after that because of a lack of talent, on both the OL AND the WR position (they decided they didnt' need Braylon Edwards and relied solely on Santonio Holmes and lost Damien Woody and used up Thomas Jones the two years before).

All the Sanchez haters are getting theirs now. 

After 2 years of Geno Smith and 2 years of Ryan Fitzpatrick they now come to grips with their foolishness. It's one of the only redeeming qualities of this season, watching them all squirm. 

SAR I

[SAR I]

21 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Sanchez is, was and always will be a terrible nfl qb.  Are you guys seriously wasting time debating this?

Here entering 2017 and knowing what we know now it is no longer a debate, it is a fact:

The decision to give up on Mark Sanchez for greener pastures in 2013 is one of the worst personnel moves in Jets history. 

SAR I

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Here entering 2017 and knowing what we know now it is no longer a debate, it is a fact:

The decision to give up on Mark Sanchez for greener pastures in 2013 is one of the worst personnel moves in Jets history. 

SAR I

yes, as we can see from the rest of his illustrious career after finally leaving the Jets.  

To this day, you are still delusional about Sanchez's abilities.  Never was good.  Never could make the right decisions, perhaps even dumber than Geno Smith out there. Everyone always making a million excuses for his inabilities and mistakes.   

 

[JetFanWithNOPSL2017]

yes, as we can see from the rest of his illustrious career after finally leaving the Jets.  
To this day, you are still delusional about Sanchez's abilities.  Never was good.  Never could make the right decisions, perhaps even dumber than Geno Smith out there. Everyone always making a million excuses for his inabilities and mistakes.   
 

Agree with you D as do ALL but two Jet fans on the planet still waving their pom poms for Buttfumble. But SAR I and nyjunc are both good Jet fans who support their team so forgiveness is in order.

Do disagree on the Geno comparison. There is no QB, football player or human being on the planet dumber than Geno Smith.

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

yes, as we can see from the rest of his illustrious career after finally leaving the Jets.  

To this day, you are still delusional about Sanchez's abilities.  Never was good.  Never could make the right decisions, perhaps even dumber than Geno Smith out there. Everyone always making a million excuses for his inabilities and mistakes.  

He suffered a throwing shoulder injury that took a year to heal and suffered from the worst offensive coordinator in league history and the lowest rated WR's in team history.  There is nothing to glean from Mark Sanchez 2012 or 2013.

What we know is that the last time we saw him in a Jets uniform with good WR's and a decent offensive coordinator we were sitting at 8-5 in December and had a lock on a third consecutive wildcard before Rex Ryan's crappy defense allowed the Eagles to put 45 points on us and Victor Cruz to go 99 yards on us to blow the season.  The next year was the year of Chaz Schillenz and Tony Sparano.  The year after that the Snoopy injury.

No one is saying he was a great quarterback.  But after back to back deep playoff runs and an 11-5 record featuring 5 epic fourth quarter comebacks, everyone in August 2011 thought we'd found our franchise guy whose continued growth should have led to many more successful seasons.  How anyone could look at what the Jets did to him in 2012 and 2013 and not ask themselves what might have happened with legitimate NFL receivers and a legitimate NFL offensive coordinator is the one making excuses.  Excuses for impatience and buttfumbles and scapegoating and poor judgement.

SAR I

[NoBowles]

15 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

That you're being a dick? 

That one is obvious. 

Not trying to be a dick, sorry if I came across that way. You seem to have a problem with anyone who disagrees with you. I don't see the difference however in your stance in Sanchez vs. Geno. In your mind, Sanchez sucked, sucks and always will suck, and its no fault what was around him in 11-12, yet Geno sucked but we don't know if he could be good, because of what he had around him. I just ask for some consistency.

[Jet Nut]

8 hours ago, NoBowles said:

Not trying to be a dick, sorry if I came across that way. You seem to have a problem with anyone who disagrees with you. I don't see the difference however in your stance in Sanchez vs. Geno. In your mind, Sanchez sucked, sucks and always will suck, and its no fault what was around him in 11-12, yet Geno sucked but we don't know if he could be good, because of what he had around him. I just ask for some consistency.

Ugh, what does Geno have to do with anything?  

Not in my mind, Sanchez wasn't a good QB.  While you give reasons why, blame everyone around him you just don't seem to want to admit he wasn't good.  While telling us why he wasn't good and that it wasn't his fault that he wasn't good.  

And of course Geno.

[phill1c]

On ‎11‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 7:31 PM, Jet Nut said:

You need to learn how to read. I listed who was around him because you said there was no one around him.  When I list who was around him you make it into something else. 

he had talent around him and didn't develop.  It happens. That's it.  

He didn't suck after anything.  He sucked. Always. From day one he was never, ever a good QB.  His numbers sucked through this career. I'm shortsighted?  Your talking hypothetical what if scenarios. I'm talking about what he was.  A mediocre, at best, QB who was on teams that succeeded. You can stroke yourself into believing it was better than that.  You're wrong

"he had talent around him and didn't develop.  It happens. That's it...

No, when he had talent around him, he went to TWO AFC Championship games. When he lost that talent he regressed.

 

[NoBowles]

11 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Ugh, what does Geno have to do with anything?  

Not in my mind, Sanchez wasn't a good QB.  While you give reasons why, blame everyone around him you just don't seem to want to admit he wasn't good.  While telling us why he wasn't good and that it wasn't his fault that he wasn't good.  

And of course Geno.

You pretty much spent the summer telling everyone who said Geno sucked that we don't know if he still sucks, because he had nothing around him and could have improved. Which is fine, he may have improved. But at the same time when Sanchez had nothing around him it was all his fault, and will always suck. Its inconsistent, thats all.

[JetFanWithNOPSL2017]

Mark Sanchez was Joe Montana when compared with Geno Smith

Geno Smith was worse than Brooks Bollinger, Rick Mirer, Neil O Donnell and Bubby Brister all rolled up into one

[Jet Nut]

12 hours ago, phill1c said:

"he had talent around him and didn't develop.  It happens. That's it...

No, when he had talent around him, he went to TWO AFC Championship games. When he lost that talent he regressed.

 

No, when he played on a team with the talent to take him to Championship games he went.  He didn't regress, he was the same QB with the same issues just the talent level couldn't carry him through anymore. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, NoBowles said:

You pretty much spent the summer telling everyone who said Geno sucked that we don't know if he still sucks, because he had nothing around him and could have improved. Which is fine, he may have improved. But at the same time when Sanchez had nothing around him it was all his fault, and will always suck. Its inconsistent, thats all.

We don't know if Geno learned anything the last year plus on the bench.  Sanchez never was sat to learn.  He just plowed through playing miserable, error filled football.  The fail is believing Sanchez never had talent around him.  He had Edwards, he had Holmes, he had Cotchery, he had Keller, he had Thomas Jones, the NFLs number 1 running game, the NFLs number 1 defense.  He had precisely what I would have liked to see around any young QB, even Geno. 

[Jet Nut]

On 11/26/2016 at 7:16 AM, SAR I said:

All the Sanchez haters are getting theirs now. 

After 2 years of Geno Smith and 2 years of Ryan Fitzpatrick they now come to grips with their foolishness. It's one of the only redeeming qualities of this season, watching them all squirm. 

SAR I

Yeah, we're getting ours.  Because in your world what Sanchez is or isn't has what exactly to do with Geno Smith?  Or Fitzpatrick?  You cloud the water to somehow try and make Sanchez something he never was, a better than mediocre QB. 

I'll use your logic, if Sanchez didn't suck so badly there wouldn't be a Geno Smith in NY.  

Whos squirming over Sanchez?  Why?  Because when given an opportunity in Philly it with the defending SB winners he failed?  

[Dcat]

23 hours ago, SAR I said:

He suffered a throwing shoulder injury that took a year to heal and suffered from the worst offensive coordinator in league history and the lowest rated WR's in team history.  There is nothing to glean from Mark Sanchez 2012 or 2013.

What we know is that the last time we saw him in a Jets uniform with good WR's and a decent offensive coordinator we were sitting at 8-5 in December and had a lock on a third consecutive wildcard before Rex Ryan's crappy defense allowed the Eagles to put 45 points on us and Victor Cruz to go 99 yards on us to blow the season.  The next year was the year of Chaz Schillenz and Tony Sparano.  The year after that the Snoopy injury.

No one is saying he was a great quarterback.  But after back to back deep playoff runs and an 11-5 record featuring 5 epic fourth quarter comebacks, everyone in August 2011 thought we'd found our franchise guy whose continued growth should have led to many more successful seasons.  How anyone could look at what the Jets did to him in 2012 and 2013 and not ask themselves what might have happened with legitimate NFL receivers and a legitimate NFL offensive coordinator is the one making excuses.  Excuses for impatience and buttfumbles and scapegoating and poor judgement.

SAR I

He sucked horribly.  Inever liked him from the beginning.  Thought his decision making was terrible from the get-go and it NEVER improved one bit  

One thing for sure: there has never been a QB for whom so many delusional excuses for his poor play were tossed around as though they were legitimate.  And the rest of his career after the Jets would have sucked just as badly if he had not injured his shoulder.  Sanchez was terrible from day 1 to now.  

[SAR I]

38 minutes ago, Dcat said:

He sucked horribly.  Inever liked him from the beginning.  Thought his decision making was terrible from the get-go and it NEVER improved one bit  

One thing for sure: there has never been a QB for whom so many delusional excuses for his poor play were tossed around as though they were legitimate.  And the rest of his career after the Jets would have sucked just as badly if he had not injured his shoulder.  Sanchez was terrible from day 1 to now.  

They said the same thing about Brett Favre in Atlanta.  They said the same thing about Steve Young in Tampa Bay.

Before you go there, no, I am not comparing Mark Sanchez to these great players.  What I am saying is that coaching and supporting cast matters, matters a lot and it is very clear that the 2012 Jets had the worst OC + WR combo in team history at the very moment we all wanted Mark to show the growth you were looking for.

SAR I

[Larz]

4 minutes ago, SAR I said:

They said the same thing about Brett Favre in Atlanta.  They said the same thing about Steve Young in Tampa Bay.

Before you go there, no, I am not comparing Mark Sanchez to these great players.  What I am saying is that coaching and supporting cast matters, matters a lot and it is very clear that the 2012 Jets had the worst OC + WR combo in team history at the very moment we all wanted Mark to show the growth you were looking for.

SAR I

yeah but...

in denver this summer during a 2 minute drill instead of spiking the ball to stop the clock he took a knee (that does not stop the clock)

kubiak ran his ass out of town a week later, lol

[NoBowles]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

We don't know if Geno learned anything the last year plus on the bench.  Sanchez never was sat to learn.  He just plowed through playing miserable, error filled football.  The fail is believing Sanchez never had talent around him.  He had Edwards, he had Holmes, he had Cotchery, he had Keller, he had Thomas Jones, the NFLs number 1 running game, the NFLs number 1 defense.  He had precisely what I would have liked to see around any young QB, even Geno. 

When Sanchez had talent around him, he performed as well as could have been expected for a kid who should have still been in college, and led the team at the most important position to a 20-13 record, 2 AFC title games, and 4 road victories. Realistically, WTF did people expect of him in those years, Brett Favre type play?? The problem was when they took that talent away, and put SB or Bust expectations on him, he was not good enough nor ready for that. It was FKNG stupid as all hell, and he was ruined by it. He tried to make things happen that were not there all the time, and turned into a basket case.

I see, so if they sit, they may get better, but if they play, they can't get better.... Your world dog, we are all just squirrels trying to find a nut, hoping you will let us get one or two.

[NoBowles]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

We don't know if Geno learned anything the last year plus on the bench.  Sanchez never was sat to learn.  He just plowed through playing miserable, error filled football.  The fail is believing Sanchez never had talent around him.  He had Edwards, he had Holmes, he had Cotchery, he had Keller, he had Thomas Jones, the NFLs number 1 running game, the NFLs number 1 defense.  He had precisely what I would have liked to see around any young QB, even Geno. 

For the record, its a complete waste of time arguing over either of them, because they are both crappy QB's at this point and always likely will be, and neither will be a Jet in the future to boot.

[SAR I]

46 minutes ago, Larz said:

yeah but...

in denver this summer during a 2 minute drill instead of spiking the ball to stop the clock he took a knee (that does not stop the clock)

kubiak ran his ass out of town a week later, lol

He has never been the same since the hit he took in the preseason game against the Giants.

SAR I

[SAR I]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

No, when he played on a team with the talent to take him to Championship games he went.  He didn't regress, he was the same QB with the same issues just the talent level couldn't carry him through anymore. 

Mark Sanchez was not drafted to be our Drew Brees.  He was drafted to run a team modeled after the '85 Bears defense and the '64 Browns rushing attack.  When he had teams that could stop opponents, create turnovers, and run the ball effectively he thrived as a game manager with comeback ability to elevated his game in the postseason.  That wasn't him being "carried" by the rest of the team.  That was the mother fuc#ing plan. 

Mark Sanchez, on that type of team, was maturing into a quarterback good enough to get us to the Super Bowl.  We had a halftime lead at Indy.  He was the best Jet on the field at Pittsburgh.  When Rex's master plan fell apart, when we couldn't stop a cold on defense and when we couldn't run on offense, we fell behind early and had to throw the ball all over the place and Mark Sanchez isn't a 33 for 40 300 yards 3 TD's kind of quarterback and Chaz Schillens and Brian McKnight are not Antonio Brown and Todd Gurley.  Mark wasn't "exposed" as some type of fraud; Rex was exposed at failing to keep his end of the bargain, crappy defense, no running game, terrible OC, it was a joke.  Tom Brady couldn't have won 8 games with the 2012 Jets.

SAR I

 

[SAR I]

41 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

When Sanchez had talent around him, he performed as well as could have been expected for a kid who should have still been in college, and led the team at the most important position to a 20-13 record, 2 AFC title games, and 4 road victories. Realistically, WTF did people expect of him in those years, Brett Favre type play?? The problem was when they took that talent away, and put SB or Bust expectations on him, he was not good enough nor ready for that. It was FKNG stupid as all hell, and he was ruined by it. He tried to make things happen that were not there all the time, and turned into a basket case.

Back in 2013 the narrative had to be that after 2 miserable no-playoff seasons it was all Mark Scapegoat's fault or else the blame would lie on Rex Ryan and, nope, couldn't have that.

Too many Rex Ryan lovers, local guy, blue collar, rough around the edges, thought he was the second coming of Don Shula, more than happy to run the best quarterback the Jets have had since Joe Namath out of town.  Oops.  They're feeling it today though.  At least there's that.

SAR I

[joewilly12]

Just now, SAR I said:

Back in 2013 the narrative had to be that after 2 miserable no-playoff seasons it was all Mark Scapegoat's fault or else the blame would lie on Rex Ryan and, nope, couldn't have that.

Too many Rex Ryan lovers, thought he was the second coming of Don Shula, more than happy to run the best quarterback the Jets have had since Joe Namath out of town.  Oops.  They're feeling it today though.  At least there's that.

SAR I

Mark Sanchez/Josh McDaniels in 2017 

[drdetroit]

12 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Mark Sanchez/Josh McDaniels in 2017 

Dumb and dumber?

[drdetroit]

14 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Back in 2013 the narrative had to be that after 2 miserable no-playoff seasons it was all Mark Scapegoat's fault or else the blame would lie on Rex Ryan and, nope, couldn't have that.

Too many Rex Ryan lovers, local guy, blue collar, rough around the edges, thought he was the second coming of Don Shula, more than happy to run the best quarterback the Jets have had since Joe Namath out of town.  Oops.  They're feeling it today though.  At least there's that.

SAR I

Sanchez sucks dude.  It didn't work out.  He's lucky he's still even in the nfl

[SAR I]

7 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Sanchez sucks dude.  It didn't work out.  He's lucky he's still even in the nfl

He sucks today, definitely, that ship has sailed.

But back in August 2012 he was a top young NFL quarterback who was rushed into service at a very young 22 and had the experience of 6 playoff games and 5 miracle comebacks under his belt.  Only God knows what might have become of him with a strong OC and decent NFL WR's.  Would be typical Jets though, wouldn't it?  Finally find your franchise quarterback after 40 years and mismanage him. 

SAR I