Woody Johnson, Joe Beningo and Being Naive

[Ex-Rex]

1 hour ago, UnitedWhofans said:

The Saints were like that and they won.

You can overcome being a low level franchise to a winner.

You seem to forget that the Patriots were an awful franchise for years, when at their worst were run by a guy (the Gilette guy) who knew sh*t about football too

Before Belichick the Patriots were a mirror image of the Jets. They were losers who couldn't find their way, losing two SB's and had owners who were more problem than solution. Then came Kraft and BB and soon after Tom Brady and viola a dynasty. It CAN happen with the Jets but Woody needs to take a seat in the wayyyyyy back and keep his mouth shut.

[Ex-Rex]

21 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Why do people keep posting this?

When Belichick stepped down Woody Johnson wasn't the owner. He wasn't even the frontrunner to be the owner, as he wasn't even the highest bidder when BB handed in his resignation napkin.

His "power structure" is the stuff of pure idiocy, but he'd never yet so much as met Belichick - nor Parcells, for that matter - when that whole thing went down.

People give Parcells too much credit for turning the Jets around. He passed on two HOF QB's in Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, so IMO he was as much a part of the problem as anything. He did what he always does, show some improvement and then ask for a boatload of money, then leave.

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

More glaring...2 pro bowlers or only 59 picks?

We needed to trade so many of them. So we could arrive at the spot we're in today. A few more years of this, and then the rest of the league will tremble in fear.

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, drsamuel84 said:

This sums it up, last year was unfortunately the worst thing to happen to this front office and set expectations too high for this year.  This team is very much still in rebuild mode and cleaning up from years of mismanagement.  The jury is still out on whether these are the guys to do it but I do think a little more patience is needed before we start firing everyone again.

Exactly.  If you look at the last 15 years or so, we've had this every-other-year yo yo effect where we are good/bad/good/bad and much of the fanbase has become conditioned to it.  Every time we change head coaches, we get a 10 win season.  So they're anxious to change head coaches, like it will make a difference next year (it won't).

SAR I

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

People give Parcells too much credit for turning the Jets around. He passed on two HOF QB's in Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, so IMO he was as much a part of the problem as anything. He did what he always does, show some improvement and then ask for a boatload of money, then leave.

That's a different discussion. 

Parcells stepped down as HC right after the new year (I forget offhand, but on or about January 3rd). BB stepped down the next day (and had obviously been in contact with Kraft from before that). Woody Johnson outbid Charles Dolan a good week and a half later. 

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

HERE HERE!!!

SAR FOR NEXT OWNER OF THE FRANCHISE!!!

First thing I would do is get rid of those PSL's.

SAR I

[nj meadowlands]

Pretty good posting by SAR in this thread, to be honest.

I'd suggest he buy the team if he didn't make well under $100k a year.

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, lambo said:

Rebuilding since 1969!!! with no end in site

 

Wrong.

We NEVER rebuild.  That's the problem if you want to win a Championship.  You have to do it the hard way.  You need to suck for 12 years like the Raiders or 20 years like the Cowboys in order to build the lines and the roster to get you where you want to go the moment you find a franchise quarterback.  Think about that.  Imagine life as a Raiders fan or a Cowboys fan.  Cowboys haven't won a playoff game since 1996.  Raiders haven't made the playoffs since 2002.  20 year rebuild.  14 year rebuild.  We haven't even gotten through Year 2.

We have had a LOT of success since 1998, a ton more than 28 other NFL teams or so.  And the moment Woody leans on NFL experts, finds the HC and the GM to manage a bonafide rebuld?  BOOM.  The fans go apesh-t the moment things get tough.

Sounds crazy to say this, but it's true:  Jets fans are spoiled rotten.

No, not from winning Championships of course.  But from rebounding so often and getting these surprise winning seasons.  And then they complain about it.

SAR I

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, munchmemory said:

After being groomed by Parcells for years,  Belicheat took one look at Woody--who had just bought the team--and bolted with his infamous "HC of the NYJ" resignation letter.  I think we can all figure out the problem.  Belicheat, at a minimum, comes off as supremely prescient.

Ridiculous.  First, Bellichick was named our head coach in 1997 when Bill Parcells was having difficulty getting out of New England and the reaction was humiliating to him (above) and he then took a public demotion when Parcells broke free.

When Leon Hess died, Parcells didn't want to be part of a franchise in transition and neither did Bellichick and Bellichick was being tampered with by Bob Kraft the way Leon Hess tampered with Parcells.

Required reading before you say such things again:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/remember-when-bill-belichick-quit-as-hc-of-the-nyj-after-one-day/

SAR I

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, BigRy56 said:

POST OF THE WEEK!

I say this all of the time. Always falls on deaf ears.

Jets fans are spoiled.  Sounds silly to say, but its true.  No, we didn't win a Super Bowl, but we have had more winning seasons and playoff wins than 26 other teams since 1998.  We don't get hats and t-shirts or a parade, but we don't ask our owner to sell the team.

Idiots.

SAR I

[JustInFudge]

42 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Hate to say it, but it isn't. I've got Sheldon 2014 and Mo 2015. Who else?

Anyone else was a veteran brought in via trade or FA, or a player drafted prior to 2008.

I read it wrong.  It's accurate.  Yes...we're terrible at drafting Football players. 

I was sitting here like, well, Mangold has been to 7.  lol

[drdetroit]

26 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Jets fans are spoiled.  Sounds silly to say, but its true.  No, we didn't win a Super Bowl, but we have had more winning seasons and playoff wins than 26 other teams since 1998.  We don't get hats and t-shirts or a parade, but we don't ask our owner to sell the team.

Idiots.

SAR I

What's spoiled fanbase most of us      Didn't see SB3, lived through Kotite going 4-28, lived through ineptitude of multiple regimes and get to see our biggest rival the pats win 4 Super Bowls and the Giants win 2.  Oh and no playoffs since 2010

 

How dare we complain about noodle-arm $hitzpatrick

[joewilly12]

3 hours ago, JetFanWithNOPSL2017 said:

 

 

Jeez

Can this guy ever just STFU?

 

 

Does the truth hurt?  

 

[munchmemory]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Why do people keep posting this?

When Belichick stepped down Woody Johnson wasn't the owner. He wasn't even the frontrunner to be the owner, as he wasn't even the highest bidder when BB handed in his resignation napkin.

His "power structure" is the stuff of pure idiocy, but he'd never yet so much as met Belichick - nor Parcells, for that matter - when that whole thing went down.

Somewhere in the aging recesses of my mind, I recall that Belicheat got spooked by the prospect of Woody Johnson becoming the owner potentially.  And of course I'm sure Kraft made him a better offer.  If this is not true, I stand corrected. 

[lambo]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Wrong.

We NEVER rebuild.  That's the problem if you want to win a Championship.  You have to do it the hard way.  You need to suck for 12 years like the Raiders or 20 years like the Cowboys in order to build the lines and the roster to get you where you want to go the moment you find a franchise quarterback.  Think about that.  Imagine life as a Raiders fan or a Cowboys fan.  Cowboys haven't won a playoff game since 1996.  Raiders haven't made the playoffs since 2002.  20 year rebuild.  14 year rebuild.  We haven't even gotten through Year 2.

We have had a LOT of success since 1998, a ton more than 28 other NFL teams or so.  And the moment Woody leans on NFL experts, finds the HC and the GM to manage a bonafide rebuld?  BOOM.  The fans go apesh-t the moment things get tough.

Sounds crazy to say this, but it's true:  Jets fans are spoiled rotten.

No, not from winning Championships of course.  But from rebounding so often and getting these surprise winning seasons.  And then they complain about it.

SAR I

well I certainly don't feel spoiled, teased would be more appropriate

[BurnleyJet]

11 minutes ago, lambo said:

well I certainly don't feel spoiled, teased would be more appropriate

No Happy ending though..

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, drdetroit said:

What's spoiled fanbase most of us      Didn't see SB3, lived through Kotite going 4-28, lived through ineptitude of multiple regimes and get to see our biggest rival the pats win 4 Super Bowls and the Giants win 2.  Oh and no playoffs since 2010

How dare we complain about noodle-arm $hitzpatrick

Go talk to a Raiders fan who hasn't sniffed the playoffs in 14 years.  Go talk to a Cowboys fan who haven't won a playoff game in 20 years despite having Troy Aikman and Tony Romo as franchise quarterbacks.  Go talk to a Browns fan who saw their team bolt for Baltimore and can't put together a winning season.  Go talk to the Chargers fans who see Ben Roethlisberger and Eli Manning building Hall Of Fame resumes while they can't win a playoff game with Philip Rivers.  How about the Saints with Drew Brees doing nothing and looking like they won't for a decade. 

You are spoiled.  Very spoiled.

SAR I

[SAR I]

48 minutes ago, lambo said:

well I certainly don't feel spoiled, teased would be more appropriate

Yes.

The New York Jets are the biggest roller coaster in sports since the turn of the Century.  Show me another franchise in any sport that feels like it's turning the corner every-other-year and crashing and burning every-other-year.  It's been pure torture since 1998.  World beaters one year, doormats the next.

And through it all is this:  It almost worked.  We almost invented a way to get to the Super Bowl without a franchise quarterback, with crappy drafting, with CFL level head coaching, and all with a pair of Hall Of Famers in our division in our way.  We didn't do it.  But we came pretty close.

SAR I

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Yes.

The New York Jets are the biggest roller coaster in sports since the turn of the Century.  Show me another franchise in any sport that feels like it's turning the corner every-other-year and crashing and burning every-other-year.  It's been pure torture since 1998.  World beaters one year, doormats the next.

And through it all is this:  It almost worked.  We almost invented a way to get to the Super Bowl without a franchise quarterback, with crappy drafting, with CFL level head coaching, and all with a pair of Hall Of Famers in our division in our way.  We didn't do it.  But we came pretty close.

SAR I

Mark Sanchez and Rex Ryan I'm all for bringing Mark Sanchez back to finish what he started.

[Bugg]

5 hours ago, SAR I said:

Let's look at the last 10 years of Woody Johnson's ownership:

2007 4-12
2008 9-7*
2009 9-7*
2010 11-5*
2011 8-8
2012 6-10
2013 8-8
2014 4-12
2015 10-6*
2016 5-11

In a 10 year period, that's 4 winning seasons, 6 non-losing seasons, and 2 playoff appearances which is well above average in the NFL.  So while the 4 losing seasons suck, the other 6 were exciting into December, look at most NFL teams over the last 10 years we actually had it good

And go back to the first 6 years of Woody Johnson's tenure:

2000 9-7
2001 10-6*
2002 9-7*
2003 6-10
2004 10-6*
2005 4-12
2006 10-6*

Over the 17 seasons Woody Johnson has owned the Jets we have 9 winning seasons, 6 non-losing seasons, and 6 playoff appearances which is not only the best stretch in team history, but it's right up there with almost every team in the NFL that has had a bonafide franchise quarterback let alone those that don't.  Find me another team without a quarterback like Brady, Manning, or Brees since 2000 that has had 9 winning seasons and played in 12 playoff games.

We are having a bad stretch.  We are stuck with what Rex Ryan and John Idzik did to this franchise and it's going to take more than 1 fluke Fitzpatrick season against a cupcake schedule to fix it.  Woody Johnson has been a fine owner.  You fans are ridiculous.

SAR I

Math is hard. 6 teams of 16 in each conference make the playoffs each year, or 37.5% chance all else being equal. In 17 years, a team should average 6.375 playoff appearances, so it's basically average. Add in in 47 years since 1969, there have been 94 conference finalists in the AFC. Roughly a 1 in 8 or 12.5% chance. Over 47 years we should have had 5.875 or 6 such berths. instead  the jets have been in the AFC title game all of 4 times, losing each time. Heck, in memory since 1969 we have only won 2 AFCE titles.   

Simply will watch and be here. But not spending a dime. We now know the GM has no power over the coach, and both answer to the owner independent of the other This is a problem. We AGAIN have the top 2 jobs not really in sync and this is the "structure" Johnson so chose. In short the owner is the issue. 

 

[Dcat]

6 hours ago, bitonti said:

"the problem is the QB" no it goes deeper 

"the problem is the hC" no it goes deeper

"the problem is the owner" no it actually goes deeper than even that. 

***

the real problem is that you believed the Jets could win a championship, period. no matter who the owner is. 

the Jets are jobbers. the team exists so that the league can sell Tom Brady jerseys in London. SO that "real fans" in flyover country can have a team to hate.  

Our expectations as fans, are way too high. 

They won't win a championship, we could live to be 200 years old.  It's like rooting for the Washington generals. (another Green team) Teams like the Pats and the Giants are red-white-and-blue like the Globetrotters...  and  btw they share a stadium with the heroes. 

Woody's vision was for the Jets to have an amazing stadium that isn't in a swamp, and not share it  with the goody two shoes Giants. Woody has good intentions. It's bigger than even Woody. 

 

 

This is wrong on so many levels is difficult to know where to start.

[Bugg]

50 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Yes.

The New York Jets are the biggest roller coaster in sports since the turn of the Century.  Show me another franchise in any sport that feels like it's turning the corner every-other-year and crashing and burning every-other-year.  It's been pure torture since 1998.  World beaters one year, doormats the next.

And through it all is this:  It almost worked.  We almost invented a way to get to the Super Bowl without a franchise quarterback, with crappy drafting, with CFL level head coaching, and all with a pair of Hall Of Famers in our division in our way.  We didn't do it.  But we came pretty close.

SAR I

Roller coasters are fun (until you get old and have Aleve with breakfast, but I digress). This is not fun. And it's not remotely entertaining. 

[Jet Nut]

Anyone who thinks a GM would fire a HC, especially one under contract, of any football team without at least running it by the owner has absolutely no clue how a sports franchise is run.  Anywhere.

And just because he has to go to he owner first to inform him doesnt mean the owner would tell him not to go through with it. 

 

[Lupz27]

3 hours ago, KRL said:

Whatever!!!  The organizational structure was no problem last year when we were 10-5, winning
5 games in a row and Maccagnan was in the process of being named "Executive Of The Year".  Can
fans ever be truthful and admit that they ONLY complain when things don't work out the way they
want them to???  I said it before and I'll repeat it, if we had an average/competent QB (Alex
Smith) we would be 6-4 or 5-5 and right in the middle of the playoff hunt.  And that's with:

- Revis declining

- Wilkerson catching "Albert Haynesworth disease"

- Williams being exposed as a #4 CB

- Pryor not progressing etc., etc.

The CIN, KC, MIA & LA were all easily winnable if our QB play was better.  Bowles & Maccagnan 
have their failings and need to get better.  BUT Fitzpatrick is the #1 culprit in this train wreck
of a season 

I was complaining about the Jets last year through the whole run that tricked most people into thinking Fitz was good do I get a pass?

[SickJetFan]

8 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Math is hard. 6 teams of 16 in each conference make the playoffs each year, or 37.5% chance all else being equal. In 17 years, a team should average 6.375 playoff appearances, so it's basically average. Add in in 47 years since 1969, there have been 94 conference finalists in the AFC. Roughly a 1 in 8 or 12.5% chance. Over 47 years we should have had 5.875 or 6 such berths. instead  the jets have been in the AFC title game all of 4 times, losing each time. Heck, in memory since 1969 we have only won 2 AFCE titles.   

Simply will watch and be here. But not spending a dime. We now know the GM has no power over the coach, and both answer to the owner independent of the other This is a problem. We AGAIN have the top 2 jobs not really in sync and this is the "structure" Johnson so chose. In short the owner is the issue. 

 S

The one positive in this new structure is Macc came in and got rid THE 1 reason for the jets dismal showing over the last 25+ years

Care to guess what that change was?

[Shadetree]

6 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Beyond all of that. Here is the reason why the Jets are where they are: This is why I hopefully can say that Maccagnan is better. Because I see more Pro Bowl potential in his picks than in the other 2.

uSTADIUM‏@uSTADIUM

Since 2008 the @NYJets have drafted 59 players ... they've all combined for 2 total Pro Bowls. Yikes.

 

Holy sh*t

wtf am I doing w my life?

I feel bad for STH

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, SickJetFan said:

The one positive in this new structure is Macc came in and got rid THE 1 reason for the jets dismal showing over the last 25+ years

Care to guess what that change was?

??????????

[Shadetree]

1 hour ago, SickJetFan said:

The one positive in this new structure is Macc came in and got rid THE 1 reason for the jets dismal showing over the last 25+ years

Care to guess what that change was?

Scouting ?

[T0mShane]

Is Darron Lee still on the team?

[Bugg]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Is Darron Lee still on the team?

He does a sheety radio commercial on Jets' broadcasts, so there is that piece of evidence indicating he has some affiliation with the team. Football, not so much. 

[SickJetFan]

10 hours ago, Shadetree said:

Scouting ?

Correct but more specifically Terry Bradway. ...the 1 common denominator of the last 25+ years of. Misery 

[JetPotato]

13 hours ago, SAR I said:

Yes.

The New York Jets are the biggest roller coaster in sports since the turn of the Century.  Show me another franchise in any sport that feels like it's turning the corner every-other-year and crashing and burning every-other-year.  It's been pure torture since 1998.  World beaters one year, doormats the next.

And through it all is this:  It almost worked.  We almost invented a way to get to the Super Bowl without a franchise quarterback, with crappy drafting, with CFL level head coaching, and all with a pair of Hall Of Famers in our division in our way.  We didn't do it.  But we came pretty close.

SAR I

World beaters? lol. No. Never happened.

"World beater" status only goes to teams that at least host a playoff game. Minimum.

[JetPotato]

Woody failed on the West Side stadium.

Woody failed on MetLife.

Woody failed on ticket pricing.

Woody failed on fan experience.

Woody has failed on every coaching and GM hire so far, with the hopeful exception of Mac.

Woody has failed in creating a structure in which the coach does not report to the GM.

Woody failed miserably on Tebow and every other gimmick he's tried to sell tickets.

[rangerous]

18 hours ago, SAR I said:

Let's look at the last 10 years of Woody Johnson's ownership:

2007 4-12
2008 9-7*
2009 9-7*
2010 11-5*
2011 8-8
2012 6-10
2013 8-8
2014 4-12
2015 10-6*
2016 5-11

In a 10 year period, that's 4 winning seasons, 6 non-losing seasons, and 2 playoff appearances which is well above average in the NFL.  So while the 4 losing seasons suck, the other 6 were exciting into December, look at most NFL teams over the last 10 years we actually had it good

And go back to the first 6 years of Woody Johnson's tenure:

2000 9-7
2001 10-6*
2002 9-7*
2003 6-10
2004 10-6*
2005 4-12
2006 10-6*

Over the 17 seasons Woody Johnson has owned the Jets we have 9 winning seasons, 6 non-losing seasons, and 6 playoff appearances which is not only the best stretch in team history, but it's right up there with almost every team in the NFL that has had a bonafide franchise quarterback let alone those that don't.  Find me another team without a quarterback like Brady, Manning, or Brees since 2000 that has had 9 winning seasons and played in 12 playoff games.

We are having a bad stretch.  We are stuck with what Rex Ryan and John Idzik did to this franchise and it's going to take more than 1 fluke Fitzpatrick season against a cupcake schedule to fix it.  Woody Johnson has been a fine owner.  You fans are ridiculous.

SAR I

there are a lot of good things that have happened since woody bought the team.  he has really upgraded the training facilities and isn't that shy about spending money, even on players.  but he also seems to meddle in the wrong way.  if he truly has put maccagnan and bowles on an equal level without a good football guy overseeing the both of them then he's really fooling himself.  the team president is a bean counter. he really needs to elevate maccagnan or put a football guy into the mix.

and to the commenter about the reason why bellichicken left.  bellichicken left because he is a spineless weasel who wasn't up to the challenge of winning in ny.  imo he probably would've failed here because of all the media attention.

[OH THE PAIN]

17 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

HERE HERE!!!

SAR FOR NEXT OWNER OF THE FRANCHISE!!!

Are you kidding ? SAR 1 will have PSL's for parking spots !!